Lindaland
  Lindaland Central
  A New Depth Of Understanding... (Page 2)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   A New Depth Of Understanding...
Philbird
Knowflake

Posts: 3396
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004

posted October 19, 2004 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philbird     Edit/Delete Message
edit

IP: Logged

Philbird
Knowflake

Posts: 3396
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004

posted October 19, 2004 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philbird     Edit/Delete Message
Randall, I'm really concerned why I created holes in my Swiss cheese.

IP: Logged

delerious
Knowflake

Posts: 800
From:
Registered: Dec 2004

posted December 05, 2004 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for delerious     Edit/Delete Message
Or "the Batchelorette"

------------------
"Too much sanity may be madness, and the maddest of all is to see the world as it is, and not as it should be" Don Quixote

IP: Logged

Philbird
Knowflake

Posts: 3396
From: Here, there and everywhere.
Registered: Jun 2004

posted December 05, 2004 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philbird     Edit/Delete Message
October 19 must have been one of those stupid thought days. I can't believe I posted that for such a serious topic. Hope you all weren't offended! I know why I created the holes in the swiss cheese, I have a void and therefore think everything else should too! I was thinking.

IP: Logged

silverstone
Moderator

Posts: 2620
From:
Registered: Mar 2006

posted March 13, 2007 04:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverstone     Edit/Delete Message
BUMP

IP: Logged

lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted August 18, 2007 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Until we forgive, there is Karma..debts shall be paid..the Universal Laws that are immutable..
unless..you come full-serpent-circle. ...
there is no escape, from what we have done..
why do you think the World is a mess?
Because of all our choices..we created this!

Are you ready to fix it????

LOve to ALL....

IP: Logged

lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted August 18, 2007 01:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
you should write more Randall

IP: Logged

SattvicMoon
Knowflake

Posts: 2282
From:
Registered: May 2007

posted August 18, 2007 03:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SattvicMoon     Edit/Delete Message
Good thoughts Randall.... but merely by thinking we don't create. The creation takes place when we emotionalze those thoughts.


Often the fear and scare factor wins because of this. It is easy for us to give up or give in to those thoughts, than to fight back and stand for our own S-Elf.

------------------
If you are taking a walk through the garden of life
What do you think you'd expect you would see?

IP: Logged

Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted August 18, 2007 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Randall, I've always liked that quote you used in your sig back then.....
quote:
------------------
Remember, love can conquer the influence of the planets....
It can even eliminate karma." Linda Goodman
..... So I thought I'd put it up in its entirety:

From Linda Goodman’s “Relationship Signs” page 196, Saturn conjunct/square/opposed Pluto:

If only Earthlings would realize the power of love to conquer any kind of misery or unhappiness like a mighty magic wand, it wouldn’t matter whether two people’s birth charts were full of positive or so-called negative aspects because love can conquer the influences of the planets. It can even eliminate karma. Yes, if only humans truly understood this. Well, it’s the Aquarian age of serendipity, so maybe someday soon.

Zala

IP: Logged

silverstone
Moderator

Posts: 2620
From:
Registered: Mar 2006

posted August 18, 2007 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverstone     Edit/Delete Message
Zala

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted August 19, 2007 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Randall,

quote:
Yes, Free-will is a reality! More so than we have ever dreamed! Does this make sense?

No, it doesn't. And the further down the rabbit hole you go, in your attempts to make free will coherent, the more complex and solipsistic your theories will have to become. You will succeed only in reaching new depths of delusion.

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."

- Albert Einstein


If you had free will, you would choose to be in Paradise right now. Period. Any conditions placed around your choice limit your freedom, and consequently direct you down paths which you would not consciously choose (if given the choice).

The ability to take the lesser of two evil paths is not "free will". It is merely the ability to follow the shortest route between two points, and it is the same ability possessed by stones and drops of water, which obey gravity and other immutable laws of nature, before changing form and adhering to another set of laws, equally binding.

"Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect as well as the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper."

- Albert Einstein

These truths are perfectly self-evident, but mankind has some irrational addiction to exaggerating his own importance in the scheme of things, and an inestimable talent for self-deception, allowing him to fashion ever more complicated theories about how this world may actually be a Paradise under the direction of himself, as God. The sooner we abandon these childish fantasies and begin to work with the real world, the sooner we will be able to manifest a real paradise on earth.

HSC
Cappy Ascendant
Saturn in Virgo, 8th house

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted August 19, 2007 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
'Zala,


That's a lovely sentiment, but Unconditional Love, and the ability to transcend the physical world (which is an adjunct of Unconditional Love), falls under the influence of the planet Neptune. Instances of enlightened transcendance are clearly evidenced by that planet, without us having to resort to invisible explainations.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted August 19, 2007 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Free-will is more than just making a choice. Sure, everyone would "choose" the best of everything; however, they often short-circuit their best-laid plans and good intent (as well as their Free-will choices) by the emotion-charged thoughts that they engage in. There's nothing complicated about that at all. In fact, the contrary is complex. In every decision there is to be made, we have the Free-will to choose whatever we wish. Those decisions change the Eternal Now that we occupy. Presumably, quantum theory holds that it's feasible that every outcome that can occur has occurred. By our Free-will choices, we dictate which path in this Uni-verse we will travel down based upon those choices. The ultimate outcomes have already happened/are happening in one great cosmic nanosecond within the Eternal Now, but OUR specific outcome in this Uni-verse is decided by the choices we make. Yes, Virginia, there is Free-will.

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

IP: Logged

Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted August 19, 2007 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
HSC ~

Are you shooting the messenger??
I just provided the (or a) source for a quote. What am I supposed to do about it if that Saturn/Pluto section is where Linda shared her musing about a Neptunian trait??
Maybe you should take it up with Linda's publishers, that her comment is in the wrong chapter

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted August 19, 2007 02:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Using Astrology (or Neptune, specifically) is itself an "invisible explanation," because Astrology has no scientifically verifiable means of influencing anyone or anything. It does so by means that are invisible and unknown by even the most ardent Astrologers.

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

IP: Logged

fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted August 19, 2007 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Randall
quote:
By our Free-will choices, we dictate which path in this Uni-verse we will travel down based upon those choices. The ultimate outcomes have already happened/are happening in one great cosmic nanosecond within the Eternal Now, but OUR specific outcome in this Uni-verse is decided by the choices we make.
Yes, Virginia, there is Free-will.
Yes indeed!

------------------
"Heaven doesn't want me and Hell is afraid I'll take over and start a rehab for the damned!"
~Judgement Must Be Balanced With Compassion~
~Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering, Or The Dire Needs Of Others~
~Assumption Is The Bane Of Understanding~
~ if you keep doing what you did, you'll keep getting what you got.~
Everything changes.
Fear not the changes.
}><}}}(*> <*){{{><{
~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~
~~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~

IP: Logged

Mirandee
Knowflake

Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004

posted August 19, 2007 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mirandee     Edit/Delete Message
Very well expressed and explained, Randall and I fully concur.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted August 19, 2007 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Randall,

quote:
...they often short-circuit their best-laid plans and good intent (as well as their Free-will choices) by the emotion-charged thoughts that they engage in. There's nothing complicated about that at all.

Indeed, there's nothing complicated about people's plans, intentions, and choices being short-circuited by the emotionally charged thoughts that arise. It becomes complicated only when you try to imagine how the person could ("freely") be doing this to themselves. Because then you have to imagine that "engaging" in those thoughts is another choice in itself, - and a conscious one; not itself the product of a short-circuit. Now you are in a quagmire of your own ill-fated (il)logic.

The rest of what you said in that post is Greek to me (and I dont mean Greek like Plato, who I have far less trouble deciphering). But good luck with that.

quote:
Using Astrology (or Neptune, specifically) is itself an "invisible explanation," because Astrology has no scientifically verifiable means of influencing anyone or anything.

Agreed. But we are not discussing influence, which is an activity of relationship. On the contrary, we are discussing the very opposite thing. The quote argues that the transcendant will bears no relationship to the planets (i.e. has transcended the relationship).

((I did say that the activities of unconditional love fall under the "influence" of Neptune. This was a careless error on my part, which I agonized over for about a heartbeat and then let slide. I considered saying "under the heading of Neptune", but I let it go. "Influence", like "cause", is a term I use provisionally. As St. Paul would say, "I speak as a man",. But when I am determined to be more precise with my language, I try to avoid using those words. And when I am more determined still, I abandon the use of words altogether.))

Moreover, I am not suggesting that Neptune "explains" anything, but, that the operations of the transcendant power of unconditional love are "evidenced" by Neptune, as I stated. They are evidenced by Neptune in exactly the same way that they are evidenced by the behaviors which we deem transcendant manifestations of unconditional love. The quote argues that some behaviors exhibited down here on earth (namely, behaviors infused with and motivated by unconditional love) do not correspond to the behaviors of the celestial bodies, and that some explanation must be sought for this inconsistency. But I am arguing that there is no such inconsistency, and, so, no need to postulate an explanation.

quote:
It does so by means that are invisible and unknown by even the most ardent Astrologers.

I disagree. Not that the means are invisible and unknown, but, that there is such an influence at all. The planets do not influence us, technically. Rather, they correspond to us. "As above, so below". Some of the most careful Astrologers are in agreement on this.

'Zala,

Nobody's shooting anybody, lol. You said you liked the quote, and I agreed that it is lovely. Then I contradicted it. No need to batten the hatches, or whatever; no shots were fired and this is not a declaration of war; just a simple contradiction. I adressed my response to you only because the sentiment I was contradicting was voiced, or, if you prefer, repeated (without qualification) by you. I did, however, pressume that you agreed with the quote. If you choose to be a mouthpiece for ideas you do not agree with, without specifying your dissent, do not be surprised if people pressume that you are in agreement with the ideas you express. So, do you or do you not agree with the quote? I'd sure like to hear your own thoughts on this matter.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted August 19, 2007 05:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Astrologers postulated for years at how to account for the "influence" of the Planets--from gravity (a weak force in general and at such a distance, weak indeed) to electromagentic fields (some Planets have no such field)--before settling on the idea that they do not influence at all. Astrology is symbolic--a Celestial Map, if you will--and is a tool we can use to understand each other, ourselves, and why we are here. It shows potential in either direction, which can be exceeded with Will and "risen above."

Emotions are often the result of conditioned responses and not readily subject to Free-will. Sometimes we engage in destructive thoughts without realizing it--and without seeing the connection such thoughts have in shaping our reality; therefore, the issue of Free-will choice is a moot one.

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

IP: Logged

Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 6485
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted August 19, 2007 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
You said you liked the quote, and I agreed that it is lovely. Then I contradicted it. No need to batten the hatches, or whatever; no shots were fired and this is not a declaration of war; just a simple contradiction. I adressed my response to you only because the sentiment I was contradicting was voiced, or, if you prefer, repeated (without qualification) by you. I did, however, pressume that you agreed with the quote. If you choose to be a mouthpiece for ideas you do not agree with, without specifying your dissent, do not be surprised if people pressume that you are in agreement with the ideas you express. So, do you or do you not agree with the quote? I'd sure like to hear your own thoughts on this matter.
HSC, “shooting the messenger” is a figure of speech….. and I am curious why you’d sure like to hear *my* thoughts….
Yes I “repeated without qualification” that sentiment of Linda’s because I like it. I like to see pretty yellow dandelions too, but that doesn’t mean I like their presence in my lawn, nor do I feel a need to specify my dissent in the midst of my ambivalence However, I do believe that orbiting balls of gas and rock for some strange reason have an effect on *my* moods. “Influence” if you like – but certainly not the “control” synonym of the word “influence” – more the “impact, affect, inspire” synonyms. I do believe that, because I have watched the planets and lights for several years now and noted how I have felt. But I don’t believe that the bodies in our solar system “make” me do or be something. Nor do I necessarily believe that I reflect Them. There is more going on in the interaction-equation than merely the entities “I” and “Saturn” for instance. Perhaps astrologers say that planets have NO influence on Earthlings, that Astrology is merely a symbolic map or a language of nuance to help us understand. But I *feel* a certain specific way when the Moon is in Virgo, and I can't deny it nor rationalize it.

Perhaps that “influence” that I feel has something to do with this:
“Superstring theory and other esoteric advances in physics….are revealing that our reality is embedded in a much more expansive, higher-dimensional realm of pure energy – or pure spirit….
The discovery of quantum nonlocality – the ability of particles to exert subtle influences on each other instantaneously across vast distances – is confirming the ancient mystical teaching that all things are profoundly interconnected. Quantum nonlocality might also explain extrasensory perception…. As well as the miraculous healing that results from prayer and other spiritual practices.”
-- From “Rational Mysticism” by John Horgan

IP: Logged

lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted August 19, 2007 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
If it were not for our free wi11 choices, we would have all mastered our maps, our chart..
we would be masters!
Because of our free wi11 choice, every action has a re-action..the universal laws that are immutable, you get what you give, if we didn't, we would have Pax et Bonum, Paradise..we would exist in the Eternal Now!

Where is my Magic Wand?

Aw, I'll use my Heart, sending unconditional LOve to ALL, everything that exists...Waves of LOve and Magic!

IP: Logged

NosiS
Moderator

Posts: 907
From: )
Registered: Apr 2004

posted August 19, 2007 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message
Greetings, Heart--Shaped Cross!

You have struck quite a chord that resonates to some ideas that have been recurring in my thoughts lately.

quote:
If you had free will, you would choose to be in Paradise right now. Period. Any conditions placed around your choice limit your freedom, and consequently direct you down paths which you would not consciously choose (if given the choice).

The recurring ideas I've been struggling with lately have to do with believing that the world, "as is", is in a perfect state. A bit of Liebnizian optimism, I suppose. For a long time I sided with Voltaire's reaction to this optimism in Candide and the quote "we must cultivate our garden". I've thought surely that only one perspective could be right. Recently, I have been re-thinking this position.

I am beginning to feel that there exists a middle-ground between both perspectives that harmonizes more closely to truth. Is it possible to simultaneously believe that the world is already in a perfect order and still feel the passion and drive necessary to "cultivate our garden"? Often the reaction to the kind of optimism in the former, if accepted, is one that endorses a sense of indolent detachment to the world. Reflectively, if one accepts Voltaire's perspective, many become lost within their cultivation, adhering to strict methodologies and structures that often cloud the purpose behind their works. It is my opinion, now, that whole-heartedly accepting either one or the other to their extremes is a path that will lead to the destructive forces of purposelessness within a chaos unquestioned or an order too rigid.

You make a good point. Given the idea of Free Will, I would choose to be in Paradise right now. Wouldn't that choice, however, be made under the constructs of a wakened consciousness and limited to the partiality within its parameters, segmented from the entire gamut of consciousness? Our very choices and perspectives are limited as well, it would seem, by the psyche-ological conditions of our states of being.

I question whether the idea of Free Will is properly understood. I agree that humanity often exhibits a distorted view of our own place within the Universe, but I feel that it is a distortion of an actual importance and our responsibility to that position should be fully understood and adhered to, not wholly discarded.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter. It has inspired me to think deeper upon this theme. I believe in Free Will, although I admit that I do not fully understand its dynamic.

IP: Logged

lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted August 19, 2007 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
I believe in free will but I also believe in fate.

I've seen events coming where I was determined to change the outcome but something always happens and fate steps in.

Couldn't free will be the determination to evolve? (in which case it will show up somewhere in the natal and thus be deemed fated)

food for thought

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 25287
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted August 19, 2007 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
I believe that Fate is what we chose to experience before we were born (and is reflected in our charts), and though much of it is what we might deem with human values as "good," we often mess Fate up with those "pesky Free-will Tinker Toys" as Linda would say. Some view Fate as our destination in whatever aspect of Life we are talking about (meeting a certain person, for instance) and Free-will being how we get there to that pre-Ordained (by us) destination. Oh, so often we "choose" to make that journey one of unneeded heartache and pain (although that is not a bad thing in and of itself, as we are still learning, growing, and experiencing on the way, and even more so when going through unpleasant lessons). It's just that we could have gotten there much easier had we went with the proverbial flow.

------------------
"There is no use trying," said Alice; "one can't believe impossible things." "I dare say you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Lewis Carroll

IP: Logged

lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 3291
From: nevada
Registered: Jun 2005

posted August 19, 2007 09:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
very true and insightful Randall

IP: Logged


This topic is 3 pages long:   1  2  3 

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2007

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a