posted November 04, 2002 06:16 PM           

"The only way to treat them is (for) what they are -- international killers. And the only way to find them is to be patient, and steadfast, and hunt them down. And the United States of America is doing just that," Bush said. "We're in it for the long haul."
-Dubya reacting to the news that a CIA drone had killed Al Qaeda suspects in Yemen
?

I think that that statement just gave me a headache. Ow. Pain, pain pounding - hurts...hurts to think, to think about...obtuse...president...
One wonders if political leaders take it upon themselves to study history.

Corri

posted November 04, 2002 06:41 PM         

Hi! I agree with you. I have huge problems with the way some of our government reps think about certain issues... and I've thought alot about it. Do you by any chance vote?

I ask because this has been a personal dilemma of mine... to vote or not to vote. At times I have, but I am not registered now and have chosen not to. I always wonder which is the better road. Any comments?

posted November 05, 2002 03:10 PM           

I vote, if for no other reason than that I believe that if I don't exercise my right to vote, I shouldn't excercise my right to bit** about the status of things - and I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't bit** about politics & governmental policies.

Seriously though,
(*ahem*,>cue barrage of youthful idealism< )
a large part of me wants to throw my hands up in despair and frustration b/c it seems like my little vote doesn't and couldn't possibly count, especially in national and state-wide elections (in which VA usu. votes Rep....and I don't) - but then I realize that those not voting b/c they've come to the same conclusion are overwhelmingly young and/or poor and/or otherwise disenfranchised (and would tend to vote more liberally), and that if they (we) all voted we could make our votes count.
I mean, an individual's vote doesn't really make a difference, but if you get enough individuals together then...then you have the potential to make a substantial impact.
I mean, it seems to me that it's in the interest of society's more conservative elements that those who are currently disenfranchised (by their own choosing or not) continue to be so - it gives the votes of those that do turn out (again, tending to be skewed older, richer, and more right-wing than the sum total of the populace) more leverage than they could otherwise dream of wielding.

And also, let me emphasize that I do not wish to demonize the right (well, except for Pat Buchanon...OK, Jerry Falwell, too...and Strom Thurmond, et al... ). In my experience (which admittedly may come-up short; I'm young yet), -while there is horribly deep-seated corruption to be found to varying extents within just about every facet of government...but that's probably part n' parcel to power- there are good people on both sides of the political isle that genuinely want to do what they see as good and right for America, and with some for the world and humanity; reasonable people can reasonably disagree. I mean, I haven't met a political person yet who secretely takes time out of their day to hide in a dark corner, wring their hands, and plot the destruction of the American People. Heck, even those that are corrupt (and, rest assured, they're there...all over...*sigh*...heck, by middle-American - read: decent - standards probably most but the late Sen. Wellstone are) aren't so 24/7; they're trying to do right, in whatever form they see it, at least some of the time.

I mean, the system is a mess, and political heft and leverage are bought (whether by lobbyists and corporations or directly by individual contributors) and sold constantly as a matter of course, and it's taken as a given that corruption is endemic to the "way things are"...but by opting-out people are resigning themselves to the above. They're admitting that things can't be changed - that there's no recourse for the Right and Good (in whatever form it may appear to them) - and that it's no use trying to work in, around, or through the system.
And I'm not ready to give in.

posted November 05, 2002 04:30 PM         

Sure hope you aren't expecting high five's all around because you sure as hell aren't going to get any from me.

What's happening now is exactly what should be happening to terrorists who attack any nation's civilian population and it's long overdue.

This rightly should have been Clinton's job given the attacks on the WTC in '93, the bombing of 2 American embassies in Africa and the bombing of the USS Cole, all on his watch but he didn't have the balls for it.

Oh, by all means, DO withhold you vote to show your displeasure.

posted November 05, 2002 04:58 PM           

Ow, no need to be so mean...

I just said that I believe that there are genuinely good people on both sides (and endemic corruption on both sides) and that reasonable people can disagree, but if someone has genuine dissent against the entire *system* (and some do; I'm not one of them, but they're out there), they should have the right to opt out...and they do.
I thought that I also indicated that I'm liberal and am saddened and dissapointed by the fact that many other liberals have given-up in despair, and that (because of that) conservatives have a statistically disproportionate influence. I apologize if I had been unclear on that.

I *do* have a beef with the belief that systematically hunting down "those responsible" is the answer - with an amorphous movement (such as extreme Pan-Islamacism) you cannot ever "eliminate" the enemy...more will always pop-up. And if we act with too heavy a hand, we *will* breed contempt and *more* people willing to become terrorists and give their lives for our destruction.
That's the way it's always been - any group that feels itself to be actively and aggressively persecuted (as many in the Islamic world - rightly or wrongly - feel American policy is doing doing to them - in large part because of misrepresentation by media controlled by corrupt regimes) will grow progressively more hardline and dogmatic, which only gives more fuel to the fire of Fundamentalism with anti-American/Western overtones.

posted November 05, 2002 05:21 PM         

My compassion is all used up. I spent it all on the innocent victims they murdered.

Why is it that only liberals find the truth mean or mean spirited?

By the way, the President's name isn't Duyba, but if you want to get into a name calling contest, I'll surly oblige you.

jwhop

posted November 05, 2002 05:38 PM           

Just know that I said, "No need to be so mean," b/c it seemed to me that you were attacking me, not my opinions. I didn't mean it to be against you directly, and I apologize if I misconstrued what you were trying to convey.

And I respect the office of the President, even though I don't quite see it as sancrosanct I really do forget that many people take such things so seriously - and I should watch my insensitivity - I'm used to goofing with my (Repulican AND Democratic) friends; we bash each other's respective sides in jest ("So, geez, did you hear that stinker that your boy Dubya dropped?""How 'bout the sell-a-vote-a-thon going on with your boy Torricelli?"). A person can not respect the man, but respect the position.

posted November 05, 2002 06:40 PM         

Thanks for sharing your insight and point of view. I am not sure exactly why I have chosen not to vote at the moment. I know that the electoral vote process is frustrating to say the least (especially in this last election... what the *!), but since I am in California (and tend to be liberal in my views) the Presidential elections go my way. Lately I have become more interested in getting involved locally, although I am still not convinced it would be worth the negative feelings that political issues give me. I do see your point about substantial changes occuring when others that feel the same way get together and make their vote count and voices heard, yet spiritually, I find myself backing down from the fight.

Yes, I also agree that the governmental system is a mess, yet so are alot of other systems in society. Everything from corporations, big stock businesses, the entertainment industry, the educational system, the medical/insurance industries, etc. etc. The big problem is unrealistic capitalism ... it is mind boggling and it is not suprising that the government cannot handle the monitoring of all of this AND protect us from terrorists.

It seems like until EACH INDIVIDUAL can take responsibility for their part in the greed and waste and destruction in their own personal world, it won't matter who we put in offices. I swear I believe that it all starts in your own home.... and through love, positive examples and greedless work we will be able to change everything. Hmmm... once again, I'm talking about a sort of Utopia...

On another note, I do think it is not America's place to try to bully other countries into doing our will. I believe it perpetuates the exact terrorism we are trying to get rid of. It is too bad that the issues are all confused. I feel we are right in trying to find the terrorists (because they attacked us), but what we did to Afghanistan and are threatening to do in Iraq is not right. Of course, the government is trying to make us believe it's all related and necessary, but in reality it is not.

In saying that, I want to add that I have alot of faith in Karma and I do believe that enlightenment will happen.