posted September 07, 2003 05:57 PM         

scatbug- Have you thought of the emotional and psychological effects that this sort of oppression can have on a people? NO EXCUSES for anyone of any race who is not doing their very best, but can you imagine?

There are people who were sexually assaulted ONE time when they were two or three years old and spend the rest of their lives in therapy and continue to have dysfunctional relationships with the sex (gender) that abused them not to mention their children if they have any; and if you believe in reincarnation, can you imagine what the abused person's next life will be like, not only might they still be suffering the effects of the abuse from the former life but they might be worse off because they do not know what the problem is because they might not remember what happened in their last life. So the people who are "pointing the finger" at you (has that ever really happened?) might indeed be suffering the effects of past trauma except it might not be a curent life/past life situation but the sort of thing where the people that were abused had dysfunctional relationships (and these numbers were in the millions) and passed it on to their children (again in the millions). Intense sexual, physical, emotional, psychological, mental abuse in one person is horrendus and the effect are far-reaching and everyone who meets this one person and knows them personally can be horribly affected by their shattered being. Just imagine millions of shattered creatures carrying on romantic relationships as well as regular friendships and raising children for God's sake without the aid of psychiatric help (which they were not able to afford even if a psychiatrist would have seen them which is not bloody likely). Yes, that was years and years and years ago but to be raised by someone with a severe case of post traumatic stress disorder even if, with every generation a few wounds were healed, and it was nine generations removed is not easy, add to that the rampant rascism in this country, that I am sure you do not witness in it's rawest most unadulterated forms, is something that would make some people very angry and justifiably so. Not to say that you deserve to be accused. I haven't even seen rascism in it's rawest forms and I can still understand a bit, but that is because I have compassion and I try. You haven't seen real rascism, that is obvious because you are very free with your judgements.

I also wanted to add that I think that it is absurd to compare the late treatment and "opression" of the Irish in America to 400 years of slavery and a subsequent 100 years (give or take) of legal opression of the Africans in America, sold by their own people or no.

posted September 08, 2003 12:23 AM         

I had a lot to say about your comment though because I don't like when it seems as though people aren't trying to see things from another's point of view. That is MY MAIN GRIPE OF ALL TIME, because when you don't know where the next man is coming from and you don't try, it is so easy to begin to hate, and that is where my mile-long posts came from.

I actually don't even think about rascism that much but lately race issues have been coming at me like anything and it got me thinking and I wanted to see what you guys thought. And I wanted to know if you guys think about rascism because I was talking to a couple of people and I told them that I really didn't know if I had an opinion on certain race subjects and I didn't even think about racism hardly at all and they were shocked and I don't think that they even believed me so I wanted to know if I was the only person that doesn't have race issues on my mind. I do know things about it but maybe I don't think about it because I don't think that it is that important. And sometimes I think that I should be embarrased for not thinking about race issue more because it is a big problem that should be addressed (in certain ways)and like I said I wanted to know if others thought about it because the people I've met lately sure do. Now THAT has been pent up for a little while.

posted September 08, 2003 12:37 AM         

"Your example will inspire others"

posted September 08, 2003 05:14 AM           

Aaah.

I think that ya'll may be talking past each other now.

I could be wrong, but lemme see if I can sum-up the above:

silverbells saw scatbug's comments and took them to mean that he has no compassion towards current, illustratable prejudice, and/or that he singles out one or two ethnicities for disregard, and so is showing understandable irritation and confusion in light of that view.

It seems like, from my third party perspective which may be a bit biased b/c I'm about to marry him, that scatbug doesn't like it when people, in general, claim their ancestors to have a historic monopoly on suffering and oppression. I've been in the crossfire in a few of those convos, and - wow - they get not kosher fast. He's asserting that the most sure way to work to move past past events is to view people as individuals and not as part of groups, which're highly subjective and amorphous, anyway.
I don't think that he's saying that racism, prejudice, and the ill-treatment stemming from those don't currently exist (anyone who cares to see can see that they do - on all sides), nor that the root causes of such and the concurrent behavior can or should be discounted or ignored in the search for mutual empathy.
scatbug saw silverbells' aghast reaction to his comments as "proof" that she was baiting, since he saw nothing wrong with his comments, and wondered why she would do so.

Did I kinda sorta get the gist, ya'll?

Pleeaase no more fighting; I avoid the "Global Unity" forum for a reason.

posted September 08, 2003 09:06 AM         

And it's important to play fair. As proxieme notes, look at what the Global Unity forum has become. I don't go there either.

posted September 08, 2003 09:25 AM           

Wytch -

quote:

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No coincidence

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posted September 08, 2003 03:55 PM         

Racism is a delicate issue and has the ability to turn into a worldly free - for - all verbal sparing match. But this being LindaLands Free For All Friendly Forum , I trust that won`t happen

posted September 08, 2003 08:15 PM         

Yes, we need to take responsibility for damage done in the past. But for how long? We can't be responsible forever; a few generations down the road, they have to take care of themselves, and realize that their grandfathers and mothers made their lives much better, and much more equalized than it would have been in any other case.

But we ourselves need to take responsibility to learn the truth and not to spread untruths around. Yanno? We can't be responsible for a failed test; but we can be responsible for how we ourselves treat the feelings, and the respect we show for other people.

posted September 08, 2003 08:46 PM         

The secret is in the garlic handle...