posted January 12, 2004 10:06 PM           

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Have any of ya'll ever read anything by Ina May Gaskin?

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posted January 13, 2004 01:03 PM         

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yes, i have read Spiritual Midwifery, and just recently found out I am expecting, so checked out another book of hers, called Ina Mays Guide to Childbirth. I have not read it yet, and I have loaned Spiritual Midwifery to another expecting friend. I live only an hour away from The Farm in Summertown, TN, and have considered possibly delivering there. But I am concerned that the drive may be a bit too far. I remember that you were pregnant. Have you delivered yet? If not, are you going to deliver naturally? Do you have a midwife?

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posted January 13, 2004 01:28 PM           

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Heya Crystelle

I just got Ina May's Guide to Childbirth - it's _fantastic_. I've been reading it every night before I go to bed (to the flips, rolls, and jabs of the little'un - currently almost to 7 mo. baked...EDD 25 APR 04).
I don't have a midwife and don't expect that I'll be able to find one or deliver out-of-hospital. I'm currently in Northern Virginia, but will be moving down to southern Alabama (near Dothan) at the end of this month - either way, I'm under TriCare Prime (all-inclusive military health insurance...as long as you're in a military facility), so in-hospital it is.
I _will_ deliver as naturally as possible in that setting, though (said my Leonine Mars and NN conj. Jupiter)...it's just a matter of seeing just how much wiggle-room I can negotiate.
Re: your delivering at the Farm: The drive might not be that bad, as long as you're not a super-fast laborer. There're a couple of stories in her new book of people who drove from 40 min + w/ no ill-effects; or don't they have the option of staying there starting shortly before your EDD? I mean, that's not viable for everyone (work, family obligations, the cost), but if you could work it...

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posted January 14, 2004 08:04 PM         

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oh wow, you are brave to do that. i know that a lot of times doctors will try to discourage the natural route, and also, i cant imagine delivering laying on my back. that doesnt really make any sense to me at all. But seeing that I have never been in the position to do so, i cant really say much. I am in the process of getting on a goverment funded insurance program and have yet to set up anything as far as midwife goes. I am only 6 weeks into this. I have a strong feeling that The Farm does not take this insurance, but I am certain that I will find the midwife meant for us.

this is exciting, isnt it? Have you had an ultra sound? Do you know the gender? I was told I am having a boy, by Ackbar, the owner of one of the metaphysical stores here in Nashville. He seems to know what he is talking about. But either way is fine. I am still not sure if I will have an ultra sound or not. tricky one...

Are you dead set on going natural, or are you going to just see how it goes? My friend is due on April 7th. She is dead set against the drugs. I have always wanted to do it naturally. I think I can do it. What an experience...

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posted January 14, 2004 08:07 PM         

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I also have Mars in Leo (although it is retrograde, so i am still lost on that one!)

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posted January 14, 2004 09:40 PM         

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I am speaking from a Canadian perspective, therefore my experience is that it was as easy as looking up a midwifery clinic in the yellow pages and making an appointment. I had a midwife for both my children.
Proxie and Crystelle~
You CAN have a positive and still midwife- centred experience in a hospital setting. Present yourself as an educated participant in your own birth experience, and also know when to put yourself into the right doctor's patient caring hands. Ultimately, they have seen and know what they're doing. It is true that they err on the side of caution and see the experience as more clinical and medical than natural. But many hospitals are very patient ( Mother) driven, and progressive. You can make up a birth plan and make sure to discuss details that are important to you with the doctors and nurses attending you. What your body will go through is natural and it knows what it's doing. Make sure you have a trustworthy team on your side. Make sure the loved ones you want with you know and understand what is valuable to you, in case you are to 'into it' (or out-of-it) to decide for yourself, or at least speak for yourself. Discuss your expectations, and I am willing to bet that the right doctor for you will respect your opinions and wants. You can have an experience in the hospital aside from what you see in movies and t.v., You don't have to be on your back. They have birthing rooms, tens machines, meditative techniques, and in room housing. You CAN have the birth experience you desire. Stay positive.

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posted January 16, 2004 03:44 PM         

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I had a natural childbirth. There are good and bad aspects to it, I guess. I went to a birthing center and had two midwives.

mrrrrrm I don't really want to discourage anyone from doing it if they want to but the best part was the prenatal care the midwives give. The birth was a nightmare.

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posted January 16, 2004 06:56 PM         

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WychOfAvalon, please share your experience.

I have a friend that gave birth to her second child about two years ago. (her first was a cecarian) and back then i was even more adamant about natural birth than I am currently, and we did not see eye to eye at all on it. she said she would TRY to do the natural route, but caved in during labor. I have since, thought about my opinion, and decided I was being too extreme (i was in a very extreme phase of naturalism at the time). I do wonder though, if deep inside she never REALLY wanted to go natural with her birth and knew all along she would use pain prevention. I wonder how much your determination and mental preperation have to do with it.
I wonder this, because i dont want to put myself in a weak position by saying beforehand "we will see".

Does this make sense? What does everyone think?

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posted January 16, 2004 07:43 PM         

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I do agree that you almost prevent yourself from belief that you can do it... I understand what you are saying.
But at the same time, that's tandamount to saying..."No problem, I can run a 25 Km marathon with very little preparation, even though I've never done it before, and I have no idea of how it will feel."
Belief in your body and what it can do is a great thing, but knowing your limitations is also a great thing. There does come a point, in most women's natural childbirth experiences, my own included, that it is almost too much... and you just CAN'T do it anymore.... But, I still held on.. I mean, what else could I do, right? Reverse time? I did it. It was a marvel and a feat and my body took me places I'd never been before, and I respect it forever for that.
But you shouldn't shoot yourself in the foot beforehand...just keep your options open. Nothing wrong with requesting a litle help, though each person's experience is different. I have a Taurus friend who had an easy labour experience, and is giving birth to her second child in late April...(...another Taurus!-Her first child was also a Taurus...poor Leo daddy - I'm praying for an Aries ally for him... too much fixidness in that house already!!!!)
Whatever works for you works, everyone has opinions right? That's why there are so many options in the world. Damn options...grumble grumble grumble... But that is a different topic altogether!

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posted January 16, 2004 09:01 PM         

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Well.. my labor was by no means the longest and Hunter was not the largest baby ever birthed, either. But I found birth to be really truly traumatic.

Maybe I didn't have proper support before hand to prepare properly? I'm not sure. I went to the classes at the birthing center beforehand, I read tons of books, belonged to online discussion groups, etc. What can a woman who's never done it before do to prepare?

I was in hard labor for 16 hours and pushed for 3. I honestly wished for death. I was exhausted and screamed to loudly I'm surprised the police weren't called! I tried the whirlpool bath because I had wanted to give birth in the water. It seemed really beautiful to me. I hated it.

I was almost sent to the hospital because Hunter wasn't coming out and I'd been pushing for 3 hours with very little progress.

It's embarrassing to say when Hunter did finally come out (I was squatting on the floor at that point and he was 9 pounds) I was not happy to see him. I was ONLY happy it was over and he was OUT. It took me months to bond with him. I mean I ADORE him now and he is the greatest thing in my life but those first few months were REALLY difficult and I can't help but think that it was partly because of the birth.

After all of that pain and exhaustion I couldn't even sleep. Went home 12 hours later with only about an hour nap and I didn't sleep after that for more than 2 or 3 hours for MONTHS. So it was like there was all that work and pain an no way to rest afterwards or recover.

I do have a lot of respect for women that do natural childbirth. A friend of mine in Florida has 3 children she's birthed at home. I don't know if I'll ever have another but if I do I have NO idea what path I'll take. I think maybe it'll be better if I go natural again but then I think maybe it'll be easier for me to bond if I'm not so tormented through it.

THEN I wonder if some of Hunter's speech delays and sensory issues were caused from him being in the birth canal for SO LONG. I wonder if I was at a hospital if he would have been out sooner and if he wouldn't have those problems. It's pointless to think about but mom's do beat themselves up sometimes.

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posted January 17, 2004 01:54 AM         

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Wych of Avalon, My heart goes out to you with compassion and empathy. I am glad you have the perspective you have. You seem very wise about the whole thing, and I am sure you've worked through it, to get to that point. I had a difficult labour with my first child too. I have written about it here before, so I won't go into it too much... though I love birth stories. But I do wonder too, if I had more medical care,..... don't get me wrong, I had a great team, but I didn't know what the hell I was doing!! I read, I studied, I tried to prepare, but, like you said, how do you prepare for something you have no clue about? No one can predict the future, and I believe alot of doctors/ob-gyns are too sterile in their thinking and gloom-mongering... but... If I had more thorough medical care, I know I would have had a cesarean with my son. I was in labour for three days. He wasn't progressing, faced the wrong way.... he came out blue, not lively, but limp on my leg. I did bond with him, I was lucky... but I understand exactly how you feel about this. My son is great...but he is a little .... unfocused.... ( He IS a Sag though, Aries rising, Scorp moon.) I have seen pictures of Hunter, and all I can say is, aside from what a little button he is, he really has a special aura about him. This kid is destined for wonderful things.... Whatever you are doing, you are doing it right.

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posted January 17, 2004 04:07 AM         

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You can go in thinking "Ok, I'm only going to ask for something for the pain if I'm just about passing out from it...otherwise, "Bring it!", but if you snap and ask for something right away, that's ok too.

Just remember, in order to get an epideral, they have to give you a needle in your spine. Do you really think you'll be eager to add that to your already terribly uncomfortable state? I passed on the pain killer just because of that. Needle in my back in addition to this contraction? Uh, the phrase 'GO F$&K YOURSELF' came to mind at that point. (inside thoughts inside thoughts)

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posted January 17, 2004 01:43 PM         

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wew, i am sweating just reading all this. BUT it is nice to hear the truth of the matter. i suppose the only REAL Preparation one can do, is to actually go through labor once, and then maybe by the second child, you are prepared. But even then, it doesn't gaurantee an easy delivery.

3 days! wow! How traumatic (to say the least) I have never heard of such a long labor in my life. Were you in your own home?

The whirlpool bath: what was it like? Was it just simply too uncomfortable? Too hot? I had also thought of that possibility.

I can definetely see how it may be a good idea to keep all options open. I am not THAT opposed to an epedural. It is so hard to know what to expect, since everyone is different and every delivery is different.

Thank you ladies for sharing your stories.

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posted January 17, 2004 02:21 PM         

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Crystelle~
I was at home for most of it. I was so excited to be 'seasoning' and getting ready to see my baby, there was no way I could get any sleep either, we recorded every (for a while) contraction I had-their length and intensity. My midwife came to see me, My cervix hadn't thinned much and I was only two centimentres dilated...which is nothing. That was well into the first day.But I was still having a contraction every between one-eight minutes. I had baths, waited, called the midwife many times....waited. I still wasn't progressing on the second day, so she gave me an herbal concoction to drink, which would either kick start it, or stop it. I rested for an hour, disappointed that it was 'false' labour, but then they started up with massive intensity. I still stayed at home. About two in the morning on the third day, I had to go to the hospital, the contractions were building and I was exhausted... I had barely rested throughout the excitement...and all the tangled emotions. Every bump of the car on the way to the hospital was agony. It intensified it for some reason. They checked me at the hospital, and I was still only four centimetres dilated. I went to the hospital shower room, propped a chair underneath me, and sat with the pounding water on my back and middle for the longest time.
When I got back to my room, it was very early morning, and I hadn't progressed, but enough so they could break my water... because at this point, the only indication of labour was contractions,and 'the bloody show'. Omigod! Let me tell you, once your water is broken, things are intense.
I ended up getting an epidural, and I slept for the longest time. When I woke, it was around 1:50 in the afternoon, and I could feel something, a pressure, that was different. I could feel a bit of pain..I am guessing the epidural wore off, but only enough that I could participate, and feel a little. I was checked, and immediately, they said-"oh! your gonna' have a baby now!"
They went to get my partner, who was sleeping in the lounge, and I immediately started pushing. I got to watch it in a mirror..... not exactly flat on my back, I was propped up with pillows, holding my leg up, like a crouch, when I'd bear down. I pushed for forty five minutes....not bad, I'm told, especially for your first (whew!) It was really helpful to have 'cheerleaders' telling me what a good job I was doing... but then, I am a sucker for compliments....
My baby came out blue, limp, and I didn't know that was bad... I didn't know what they were supposed to look like, you know? The midwife grabbed him from me, to my ptotests, as I wanted to do the 'LeBoyer' method, not much stimulus, allow the cord to stay intact, etc....but she yelled at me..." Look at him!!!!"
That was the most traumatic part of the entire experience... that I'd gone through all this time, and now what? My baby's not making it? I didn't understand that at the time though, it was afterwards, as I was working through it. They revived him, and I heard him cry. Omigod! If I had ever experienced love at first sight, it was at that moment. This little 6 pd, 3 oz, fair pink skinned blond fuzzy haired beautiful angel with tiny wrinkly little hands just fascinated me. I couldn't stop kissing his little head.
I have written this before, but I love birth stories, even though this one isn't the best.
BUT!!! In contrast, when I had my daughter, five and a half years later, I had natural childbirth, I went into labour at about four in the morning, I had her at 4:43 that day. Not bad! It was painful, of course, but it was an entirely different experience. I pushed her out in less than three pushes......YAY!!! She came out pink and healthy and sucking on her fingers, while in the birth canal. I had a great group of midwives for this birth.She was 7 pds 7 oz.

Well, now... you asked.... you get to read an entire page! LOL!

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posted January 19, 2004 01:36 AM         

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pixel ~
your post brought tears to my eyes. thank you

And thank you for posting your birthing stories. I like reading those.

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posted January 19, 2004 01:44 AM         

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Wych of avalon~ For some reason, hearing that my post brought tears to your eyes, brought them to mine, too! Is it something in the air? I love being a woman for so many reasons.... giving birth one of them, but I love being able to go with the emotions, and just go ahead and cry. No one will think me not 'macho', they will just understand that being a woman allows you to cry for happiness, compassion, sadness, pain, silence, violence, commercials and movements of the tides. *sniff* I am proud to be a woman. Thanks for your post!

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posted January 20, 2004 12:47 PM         

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pixelpixie,
thank you for sharing your story. seems like experience is everything.

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posted January 20, 2004 03:03 PM         

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pixel ~
actually the night before I made that post I had written a much longer post to you but LindaLand ate it! Mostly it was just babbling about cute babies and all ~ but I think it thanked you better and I probably expressed myself better in a rare moment of clarity.

*HUGS!*

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posted January 20, 2004 08:01 PM         

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Wych~ No need to thank me... I so appreciate the sentiment. I am saddened that you also had a negative birth experience, but if you choose to have another child, I just know it will be a better experience for you. After all, no expectations this time around... I mean, how much worse can it be, right? Therefore it can only be better. You make beautiful babies, you could make more if you chose to. Although Hunter has the look of an only child to me. I think he'd be okay with that, if you would......

Crystelle_ please don't let my experience scare you, not all births are as traumatic as the ones you've heard, of course, you know that, but doesn't it feel good to hear? Plus, my daughter's birth was life altering and 'easy'... not that I use the term lightly, just compared to my first. It was seriously a touching thing. An eye opener, a miracle.
Lots of and light to you during the pregnancy and beyond. If you or
PROXIEME need anything, a shoulder, any bit of advice ( from my perspective, or a book I may own...) Don't be shy to say it!

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posted January 20, 2004 08:45 PM         

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hrmm yeah. I've thought about another one but I refuse to entertain it fully until at least another year. I am just getting to the point where I have a little bit of privacy and a little time to be ME. If I have another one now it's just being home and exclusively MOM for another 5 years.

I have some traveling I'd like to do and it's harder to do with 2 children. But if I wait to long it might not be possible to get pregnant again because I have endometriosis. So I am quite torn.

I do wonder how Hunter would deal with a sibling. He loves all my attention

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posted January 21, 2004 10:31 AM           

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Cool!
Lots to read

I've been outta town for a little while, but I'll go through this thread as soon as I get tired of packing.

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posted January 21, 2004 11:52 AM         

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Hiya, Prox! How did it go? Did you find a new love-nest?

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posted January 21, 2004 10:44 PM           

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Wow.
Birth stories never cease to...
scare the cr*p outta me.

Just kidding (kinda).

crys - My Mars's retro, too; 'tis not that bad.

Thank you all for sharing your stories.

pixelp - I'm really not sure what the military hospital will allow; I'll just have to look into it more once I get down there. I hope to have Jason there and rooting for me; currently, though, he's afraid that he'll faint after going into a hysterical fit.

Wych - Hunter does seem like an exceptional child.

Lioneye - I probably won't be that dogmatic about pain prevention, but, yeah - epidurals. Ick. Ick Ick Ick Ick Ick.

And I've heard too much about increased rates of cesearean section, instrumental delivery (forceps, etc), and...gah...what's it called (brain fart)...when they cut your perineum...with the use of epidural, even "walking" epidurals. Did you know that nearly 25% of American hospital births are cesearean now? Ick again.

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posted January 22, 2004 12:58 AM         

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honestly the stories dont scare me that much. it is just the reality of the situation. i think that being un-informed would be scarier actually. so i am very appreciative that people are so willing to take the time to tell their own experience.

i am so excited to be creating a human being. this is great! Hunter is VERY cute! WOW.

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posted January 22, 2004 01:32 AM         

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Nah, don't be nervous about it. The female body is designed to perform this incredibly natural and profound task. And the medical community has it pretty down pat for the most part. I think your nerves can play a bit part in how difficult of a labor you have. A calm, determined and confident attitude will go a long way in helping it go off without a hitch. (more or less)...Of course, some deliveries encounter potentially dangerous situations, where a c-section is the safest route. But I don't think that'll happen to you Prox. Somehow, I think you're going to do splendidly...a 'Class 1' labor and delivery, as they call it in the med. community. That's a delivery that is text-book perfect, and the baby is 10/10 on the *APGAR* chart (and I'm not sure if that's the right acronom)

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