posted February 04, 2004 08:43 PM         

I was thinking about subliminal messages in commercials, particularily the home-direct-shopping ads.

I was watching one of these advertising a ladies face powder.
There was obvious messages in it like "instant" and "glow" each word visible for about a second. These aren't the subliminal messages I mean because they are visible.

What I'm talking about is, during each word there was a slight flashing in the background. In that flashing I think there were some pictures which played, chosen too upset the mind, in-stop-motion photography.

angry!

posted February 04, 2004 09:29 PM         

A few months ago, I read an article about how in some Georgia University, they are giving volunteers CAT scans while showing them images, so that marketers and ad-men can determine what images cause certain brain reactions, and use that to coerce more money out of consumers.

It makes me sick. Most European countries have made it illegal to market directly to children, but not so the case here. Armed with cluster studies, demographics, and psychology, the psuedo science of manipulating people has infiltrated every aspect of our lives. By 3 years old, children can identity the McDonalds arches.
Disgusting.

This is why I dont watch TV, I dont go to malls, and I dont and wont believe ANYTHING thats mass-marketed.
But I am kind of weird to begin with...LOL

I spend alot of time researching this stuff, and the more I learn, the more angry I get. On the upside, I really watch my money!!

posted February 04, 2004 11:21 PM         

"We sometimes receive complaints regarding the alleged use of subliminal techniques in radio and TV programming. Subliminal programming is designed to be perceived on a subconscious level only. Regardless of whether it is effective, the use of subliminal perception is inconsistent with a station's obligation to serve the public interest because the broadcast is intended to be deceptive (this is from the FCC manual for broadcasters)"

The FCC will now revoke a company's broadcast license if the use of subliminal messages is proven.

That's a pretty strong incentive for broadcasters to not permit advertisers to insert subliminal messages in commercials.

posted February 04, 2004 11:31 PM         

Of course it's effective, it's very effective, psychologists prove that it's true all of the freakin' time. It should be illegal, but it will never be because corporations have such an upperhand in the court system.

posted February 04, 2004 11:55 PM         

If advertisers were inserting subliminal messages in visual ads (television), it would be the simplest thing in the world to prove. A frame by frame examination of the video would reveal the hidden message and all television advertising is on video cassette.

posted February 05, 2004 04:17 AM         

And I wonder who was sponsoring the "studies" concluding that there was no effect.

Just look around, it is everywhere, and it affects almost everyone. There are many methods being used.

posted February 05, 2004 04:33 AM         

No, this is not "subliminal" as we have defined the term in this board..random flashes of images that are detected by a frame viewing of film, or the addition of words on a screen that go so quickly we dont really "see" it.

But nonetheless, it fits my definition of subliminal as in "hidden" or "a method of subterfuge." Even if we do not consciously ackowledge "Hey, there is a HALO around that guys head" the symbology of how we perceive a halo (yes, I am speaking of generalities here) is that a Holy, or gifted, or spiritual man has such a visible accoutrement.

IMO, this is nothing but propaganda. These types of techniques, perfected since the advent of "The Science of Propaganda" in the 1920s have been used to manipulate a poplace for political or economic reasons.

Its the same premise as "Joe Camel" being banned because the icon appealed to youth. Its twisted, its sickening, and I wonder how many people really are aware of how it plays into the development of sense, and how we live our lives. Its conditioning, and we are the rats in the lab.

Good for you Harpyr, for shielding your child from that. It gives me warm fuzzies to hear that. Yes, I read Adbusters. The short films and ads they have on their website should be on the television, instead of the crap like during the Superbowl. The amount of misogeny in some of those ads (my brother taped the game) made my toes curl.

posted February 05, 2004 09:43 AM         

But I can go either way on these arguments.
Heck, I watch TV, and frankly, commercials have no influence on me. They can embed anything they want into a McDonald's commercial and I still won't buy a big Mac. Doesn't matter how pretty the grocery store looks, or if they 'subliminally' offer me sex for shopping there, I still shop for bargains.

As far as proving things...is it even proven that a subconscious exsists?? Please forgive me, I hated psychology in college and switched to anthropology...but, wasn't the idea of the subconscious put forth by Freud? Which perhaps makes it a popular theory...but not one that you can necessarily prove.

Oh...there goes another log on the fire.

posted February 05, 2004 11:16 AM         

There are obvious messages in ads made by association. They are seen, not necessarily spoken and are intended to convey a desirable benefit connected with a product or service.

I expect advertisers to show their products in the best light they can and fully expect politicians to present themselves likewise, including special lighting, good profiles etc. As for the President's halo, I'll hold off on calling him Saint George just yet.

http://www.snopes.com/business/hidden/popcorn.asp
http://www.mrfire.com/subliminaladvertising.html

I'm with trillian, I'm pretty much immune to institutional advertising. I respond to ads tied to sale price offers but only for things I like and would buy anyway-----at my price. If I'm not the worlds worst consumer, I'm pretty near the top.

posted February 05, 2004 11:19 AM           

To play devil's advocate (as I have no opinion or knowledge one way or the other), if "the Dems" "had knowledge of Bush's use of subliminal advertising", perhaps they didn't bring it up as they did/do the same.
Throwing stones in glass houses, y'know?

posted February 05, 2004 02:42 PM         

It should be like that here too.
I think ol Ronald McDonald needs to go the way of Joe Camel for the same reasons. McFood is McDangerous to one's health. I read an article about a guy that ate nothing but McD's for a month- 3 meals a day- to see what would happen, since an ad he saw claimed that all the nutrition one needs can be found on their menu. Well..by three weeks into it his doctor was begging him to eat something else because he had never seen such rapid deterioration in a formerly healthy person. By the end of the month he had chills and couldn't keep anything down. Now we allow these people to use manipulation to coerce our children into begging and pleading for this garbage and program them recognize their logos? This is severely disfunctional and damaging to the quality of life in this country, if you ask me. Why can't we see clowns on tv prancing around with carrots and asparagus in their hands????

posted February 06, 2004 01:26 AM         

indeed!! maybe WE should start a show for kids that has just that, and our subliminal messages can be love, peace, truth, respect....

Fu@$$@$In' television!!! my family is obsessed - its so depressing!!!!! blech!!!! i read that Mc article as well......yuuuuuck....and my mom and sis have laughed at me in the past for saying "No, i don't want to eat McDonald's, it makes me feel gross and have gross burps"
Who's laughing now after scientific proof??

posted February 06, 2004 10:00 AM           

I still maintain that Sesame Street, Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Reading Rainbow, 3-2-1 Contact, and (last, but certainly not least) Fraggle Rock instilled many of those in me as a small child.

posted February 06, 2004 10:28 AM         

Feds Blame Carbs for Americans' Blubber
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/2/5/165925.shtml

posted February 06, 2004 03:57 PM         

She's fat? Well subconsciously she must want to be fat...

She's not married? Well subconsciously she must be sabotaging herself...

An over-simplification, yes, but I've heard that sort of thing on more than one occassion.

Fascinating subject though, the subconscious.

You know, there's a book called Fast Food Nation that some of you might enjoy, it's an objective look at the fast food industry and our eating habits in America. One of the most important points the author makes, IMO, is that companies like McD's are in business to make money, and they do that by selling people what they want. So if Americans wanted to buy tofu burgers and McCarrots, they'd be happy to sell that sort of fare.

If we didn't buy cr*p psuedo-food, they'd have nothing to sell. Lots of companies make healthy foods, but until the collective 'we' want to buy them en masse, McD's will likely remain in business. And still, I remain unconvinced that subliminal advertising is what makes people buy this sort of food. Do people choose between Coke and Pepsi based on taste, or because one commercial offers more subliminal sex than the other?

posted February 07, 2004 02:59 AM         

Along with No Logo, by Naomi Klein, and any book published by Disinformation...with titles like.."You Are Being Lied To" and "Everything You Know is Wrong."

posted February 07, 2004 04:26 AM         

jwhop, that is not the commercial I am referring to. I am referring to a commercial that attempted to use the very "urban legend" method you speak of. The problem was that the image was left up too long, and one only needs to slow the image down slightly on a VCR to see it. Francois Mitterrand was caught doing it. It happens. And proxie must be right. Do you know who happens to be the head honcho at the FCC right now? A man named Michael Powell. Yes, related.

Anyway, that type of programing is practically ancient history. The most modern techniques are far better.

With very little looking, one will find such convenient positioning abounding. There are no accidents here. And this very subject ~~ subliminal programing ~~ with all of it's various research groups, professionals, documents, studies, etc., is no exception. The more one looks, the more convoluted it becomes, and of course, the more suspicious.

I used to want to slap the crap out of Democrats as well , but that is because we are aware of their lies and manipulation. The only difference now is that I am aware of the duplicity of the Republicans, so I see both parties doing the same thing ... manipulating.