posted June 08, 2004 12:43 PM         

Although, I must confess to being typical Canadian: I would rather come to a peaceful solution than bash the brains out of the poor guys who disagree with me. You see it in your politics and you see it in your social structures. You don't have to worry about getting carjacked in Canada, you don't have to worry someone's gonna start stray-shooting while you're around. We're not gonna invade your country to usurp a despot that we, up until that time, supplied with arms and money...you're right...how boring!

Call me a bore, but I love security. I love security for my family, I love waking up and thinking, thank you, God, for letting me grow up in a safe country where I don't have to worry about my basic security. In the USA there are almost 12000 deaths by shooting each year. In Canada about 110. I think I'll take my chances there!

BTW, you skipped over the part where I said we DID fight for our freedom. Ever hear of Manifest Destiny? Kind of bottomed out when the Americans figured out that, hey, they AREN'T afraid of a fight after all. There's a difference between being peace loving and being a coward. We aren't afraid to fight when push comes to shove, but we are also aware there are better ways to getting things done.

It awes me that the peaceful souls here at Lindaland are so proud of their violent history! I, for one, am proud that I'm part of a country who places world peace above our own economics. Which is the reason that our ex-PM Chretien wouldn't touch Iraq with a ten foot pole, even though our "brothers" the UK were in on the boot. I must say, I was never more proud of my country than in that moment where we said, "the reprecussions of an American Embargo (it was talked about!!), the political consequences be damned, we DON'T agree with the US, and we are damn well standing by our rights to say so!" Considering the amount of kowtowing Canadians have to do to you guys (think about the ecological laws alone for the Great Lakes areas, where we enforce strict regulations, and you don't, but hey, why bother, the Canadians clean the water up anyways!), I was surprised and incredibly proud of Jean Chretien!

All things said, I *do* respect your right to believe you live in Paradise Lost! *g*

posted June 08, 2004 01:01 PM         

Do you remember Gordon Sinclair? He was a cool Canadian. He wuvved us!

Broadcast June 5, 1973, Written by Gordon Sinclair.
------------------------------------------------

"The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.

As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.

They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

The Marshall Plan .. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?

You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times ... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

When the Americans get out of this bind ... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

posted June 08, 2004 02:15 PM         

sorry you've misunderstood me...I don't hate Americans at all. That's the whole topic here: if you're not with me, then you're against me...that's not my style at all. It was my understanding that the topic was patriotism and the good and bad things that zealousness bring with it. Gem wanted to know how Americans view themselves and how the world views their *clear throat* self-suredness.

I know LOTS of Americans, and I even like most of them Like Trillian said, everyone's opinion is their own. I just happen to be a loud-mouthed gemini--yes, even Canadians can get that way! hehe

Nackie

posted June 08, 2004 08:11 PM         

Tink, I'm going to have to disagree with your statement that negotiating for your freedom isn't as much fun as fighting for it. Unfortunately, since we're imperfect human beings, sometimes fighting for what you believe in is a necessary evil. Take the War Between the States for example. Before the war, the world press would write "the United States of America are..." After the war, "the United States of America is..." Plural to singular. The division brought unity. Sometimes there has to be a storm to clear the air.

Blessings and Peace to all.

posted June 08, 2004 08:37 PM         

I don't care where people are from. I don't like to look at things in a "country vs. country" sort of way. "Mine is better than yours because..." I've never had that sort of mind-set.

We're just people. Fragile. Beautiful. Needy. Perfect in our imperfection. We can either judge each other via the ego, or we can try to accept each other via the heart.

What's this got to do with flag waving? I dunno, it fits in there somewhere, in the lower left corner, I think.

posted June 09, 2004 02:13 AM         

please tell me where I was hateful? Agressive, yes, but that is because I have been told quite a few times on this thread that that is the only type of behaviour that is appreciated in America!

I AM peace-loving. I can not understand how peaceloving, supposedly enlightend souls can still be so blind to think that because their country was founded on blood of thousands of innocents it must be the best country in the world.

Yes, have pride in your country: if you are proud of something you're willing to work on improving it.

Yes, love your country. Everyone needs to feel they belong somewhere.

But because YOU as an American love AMERICA, doesn't automatically make America THE bestest, coolest, awesomest place to live in the world, a place without fault, and hey, if we have faults, then at least they're OUR faults, and god knows, not as bad as YOUR faults. THAT is how the outside world sees you. As holier-than-thou, as a patronizing cousin.

It's not a race between Canada and the US. I'm Canadian and don't feel qualified to speak about other countries point of views on this. Living here in Germany the past 7 years, I have gotten a rather in-depth European view on political topics, not the least of which had to do with America (Sept. 11, Iraq etc).

**wrote a long post but I'm barking up the wrong tree here**

Anyways, I DO respect you all, we are all here to advance our souls and learn our lessons. In the big picture there is no country and we are all one.

I kind of think of it like being siblings. I have four sibs at home, and all everyone did (so it seemed) was squabble and argue and fight. But we're all from the same parents, and deep down we all love and respect each other. It's just the realization of our own personalities that sometimes throws a wrench in the works! lol

posted June 09, 2004 09:53 AM         

[QUOTE]Is the perception of America and it's foreign policy something Americans should give a s**t about? [QUOTE]

Yes. It is.

I love my country. I don't always agree with its politics. Like Tink I believe there are some things that are more important than the illusion of safety.

posted June 09, 2004 10:56 AM         

I don't always express myself the best, admittedly. It does raise my ire , though, when I simply try to make a point based on scholarship and experience, then someone who does not have the same scholarship or experience (!!) argues the point. As a proud American who does not think we are the "best" (for there really is no such thing) I am tired of being cut down for expressing pride in my country, for what we have accomplished and stand for. But that is one of the great things about being an American. As the bumoer sticker says, "I may not like what you have to say, but I will fight, to the death, to protect your right to say it." Even if you're not from here.

Blessings and Peace to all.

posted June 09, 2004 11:22 AM         

God bless Greece.

posted June 09, 2004 12:13 PM         

I support the War on Terror. Terrorism is not welcome in my world. Sure, the US doens't exactly have a polished halo, and sure they have a reputation of arrogance, perpetuated by ignorant Good 'ol Boys, but there's already enough dissent and self-loathing in the US among it's citizens, for pete sake. The rest of the world is constantly telling them that Amercica sucks the big one. When you get too big, people want to see you topple over. It's called Icon Toppling, and it's what many people around the world seem to be trying to do.

Be proud to be American. It IS a great country. It's the good people who make it so, not the politicians, or the arrogant good 'ol boys, or the movie makers, or the media. It's the average folks who co-exist peacefully among a hugely diverse populace, embracing the differences rather than attacking them. This is a wonderful, wonderful thing. Any country that can pull this off SHOULD be proud.

Of course, there are other countries who have alot to be proud of as well. But, they also all have things that need some work. It just seems like America's faults are constantly being broadcasted via blowhorn around the world, so everyone is aware of them, and everyone can point and say "See? Look how messed up they are! They're not so great afterall..ha ha!" (followed by a smug satisfaction, simular to how the average teenage girl might feel upon hearing that the most popular girl in school has pimples on her ass). You're fooling yourself if you don't think your own country has some serious flaws as well.

Quit rippin on America....I'm sure your country has pimples on it's ass too.

>>PS...Nackie did touch on something that caused alot of hurt feelings in Canada, that we were not even mentioned when you guys were thanking everyone for all their help and support after 9/11. We were there like family, and we didn't even get a nod. Why was that? Then, our Prime Minister, who obviously felt snubbed, made a comment about your president being a moron, which the media totally got all over and had a hay-day with, which is why the Americans were booing at that basketball game. (yet they call their own president a moron DAILY...go figure )...but the booing was just mob-mentality and people behaving badly.

So, anyway...I'd like to know why you think your president didn't thank Canada. Are we that insignificant to you guys?

(I think that this "oversight" had more than a little to do with Canada not going to Iraq with y'all)

posted June 09, 2004 12:23 PM         

It's like walking past a house, looking in the window, and seeing two brothers wrestling on the floor. You may perceive the situation as the brothers hating each other and trying to hurt each other. You may hear shouting to strengthen this argument. But unless you are in that house you do not KNOW if the brothers hate each other or if they're both on the wrestling team at school and are putting in some practice. You cannot say one way or another, so you really can't go and tell people that the brothers are trying to kill each other.

Now I know that many will point out that as a democracy the government is run by the people so the government does reflect the people. That's the great thing about a democracy, though. When we don't like the way our government handles things we elect new people. And they're just people, like the rest of us, extremely flawed, and like in other democracies, they don't always do as the people would wish. But that does not mean we lessen our pride in our country (the people) or stop expressing that pride.

Blessings and Peace to all.

posted June 09, 2004 01:06 PM         

You're right. It was inexcusable that Canada not be thanked. It was our President who did that, and he does not represent the feelings of all Americans.

posted June 09, 2004 01:13 PM         

I do not know why our government did not thank Canada for helping after 9/11. You're probably right about it having to do with Iraq. I am ashamed that my government let a little disagreement get in the way of good manners.

I think of Canada as the great neighbor who puts up with a loud party and does not call the cops on us. We Americans shout and argue and fight (to be quite honest) and Canada looks on, shaking your heads, saying "When will these kids ever learn?" But when we are truly in trouble you're there to help. As we are such close neighbors, perhaps my government tends to take you for granted, knowing that you're right there when we need you. The example that comes to my mind is that of friends, who have become so close, they walk into each other's homes without knocking. You're there, you're always there, like family, and sometimes people let their manners slip around family.

I thank you and all Canadians for putting up with and supporting us rowdy kid neighbors.

Blessings and Peace to you.

posted June 09, 2004 01:49 PM         

• There is nothing wrong with having pride in your country.

• It is possible to disagree with your government and still love your country for it's people.

• Many Americans come off as arogant and bigoted with our "mine is better than yours" attitude.

• This "mine is better than yours" attitude tend's to offend other countries.

• America is a huge contry with much to be envied.

• People love to find fault in those they envy. As with the Roman Empire, the smaller empires couldn't wait to see it topple. To that I might add that there were very valid reasons for the desire to see the Roman Empire toppled.

• The world view is a vast and differing view. Some people live for peace and security. Others see the valule a fight in the name of good, and will fight to the death to see the fight through. With out both of these points of view, the world would be off balance. Yin and Yang. We all need each other to balance us out.
  

posted June 09, 2004 01:50 PM         

But, that's kind of how I saw it too. The other countries who helped out were freinds that came to your aid, and it was greatly appreciated. But Canada...is more like a sibling, and you know they'll be there for you. You don't even have to wonder.