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Author
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Topic: Yea, well how much turning the other cheek can there be??
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silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted October 13, 2004 12:51 PM
 
I know that turning the other cheek is popular but how about if someone has really offended you and you know that if you don't shut them down now it would probably only get worse and worse? How much abuse can one take? And what about the possibility of other potential attackers seeing how you took the abuse and coming to treat you bad too. I think that you should take care of the first person so that the others will leave you in peace. What do you think?------------------
Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Knowflake Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 13, 2004 01:09 PM
Turning the other cheek is one thing... setting healthy peronal boundaries is quite another.I think turning the other cheek is more like *not* lashing out at the peron or fighting fire with fire. You can turn the other cheek and set healthy peronal boundaries in the same instance. IP: Logged |
trillian
Knowflake Posts: 4050
From: The Boundless
Registered: Mar 2003
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posted October 13, 2004 01:10 PM
Turning the other cheek is highly over-rated. In the face of abuse you must defend yourself.Allowing abuse to continue only sanctions it, and begs for more.  IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Knowflake Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 13, 2004 01:16 PM
Very well said, Trill  IP: Logged |
pidaua
Knowflake Posts: 7314
From: Schweinfurt to Grafenwoehr all within 6 months LOL
Registered: May 2002
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posted October 13, 2004 01:36 PM
I agree totally...Actually, I had to address this issue in Christian Ethics when I went to college. (I attended a private Lutheran Uni so it was mandatory to take 4 religious classes). The issues was how does the Bible deal with turning the other cheek and how should that apply to people in todays society. Simply put, even Jesus got mad and turned over the tables in the temple. As humans we are allowed to stand up for ourselves, as Christians the same applies.
Turning the other cheek means to let the little things go by, when someone calls you a name or just tries to be annoying, leave - walk away and live your life. If that person follows, wait around the corner with something sturdy and knock the crap out of them.
LOL..sorry..I couldn't help it..that was my mischevious saggie coming out. LOL... Seriously, LibraSparkle and Tril gave right on advice  IP: Logged |
Nephthys
Moderator Posts: 3800
From: California
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted October 13, 2004 01:54 PM
Hi silverbells,How are you doing? The main thing to realize (with your Real Eyes)  is that everything people say and do, is a reflection of their S-elf. So whatever people have said and done to you, has nothing to do with you, it is actually how they feel inside about their own S-elf. I know it's really difficult because I have 2 co-workers who have been verbally abusive to me. It has been really hard for me to deal with. There are some great books which address not taking these things personally, and how, spiritually to realize what the basis of all of it is. When you don't take the emotional poison, it gets worse in the sender. Please get a hold of these books; you won't be sorry. And good luck and best wishes.   
- The Four Agreements
- The Mastery of Love
- The Voice of Knowledge
by Don Miguel Ruiz
------------------
AWAKE
Shake dreams from your hair
My pretty child, my sweet one.
Choose the day and choose the sign of your day
The day's divinity
First thing you see.
~James Douglas Morrison IP: Logged |
silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted October 14, 2004 03:16 PM
Thank You for the advice guys, I agree with you. I think, though, that I have a problem with the phrase : "Turn the other cheek". It seems as if you do not care to take care of yourself against the attacks and that any humiliation should be just "gotten over".
I have to say though, when you punch someone in the mouth they usually don't come back for more. Cause I assume that if someone is verbally abusive they want to be physical as well (not that I have punched anyone recently).What is meant by "healty" personal boundaries? Thank you for suggesting those books Nephthys. I do think that it is a reflection of what is going on on the inside of the person, but it is less what the person says and more that they are saying to purposefully hurt the next person why pick a particular person to abuse, why one person and not the other? I think that is the most hurtful part of an abusive situation: the "why me" thought ------------------
Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 1107
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 14, 2004 04:44 PM
"Healthy Personal Boundaries" This is my specialty. I have been doing this with my mother in law a lot and it works. Setting personal boundaries is letting the other person know what you are and are not willing to accept. For example I had to tell my husband " Im not willing to spend two vacations a year with your parents in Florida but I will spend one week a year with them". That is setting a boundary. Here is another: Its nice mom that you include us in everything but we have other plans this weekend." This sets a boundary for someone who pressures you into events you don't want to go to. I hope this sheds some light on the matter. The other thing i find really helps is to set boundaries by stating the truth. Not yelling and getting all emotional but look for the truth of why you don't want to do something and express it. Usually there is a deeper underlying issue that sits below the emotions. You have to work on it for a bit.IP: Logged |
silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted October 17, 2004 08:28 PM
You know, when you tell people the truth about why you don't want to do this or that or why you did this and that. They either accept it or get irate. I try to do that but people get so uncomfortable when you tell them the truth.------------------
Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
thirteen
Knowflake Posts: 1107
From: Rochester Hills, MI USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 18, 2004 09:09 AM
Ok here is an example of me having to tell the truth. This after years and years of her trying to imply that anything we do must include them ( the in-laws that is). She kept going on and on and on about this summer home her daughter saw on her way somewhere. My m-in-law kept saying " a place where WE CAN ALL GO" well i was being polite and smiling and saying nothing. She wouldn't stop so finally i said factually but not out of anger. "I am sorry to break this to you but I don't want to spend all my weekends with family." Now of course she didn't like it but my point needed to be made and ignoring her comments no longer worked. She definately took the boundary because now she only asks my husb. about get togethers and thats what I wanted. I don't want her in my face all the time. The truth will upset people but the point is not to go thru life keeping the peace, the point is to let people know what you will and will not tolerate. For me, i have to be true to myself. I can't just go along to keep peace.IP: Logged |
paras
Knowflake Posts: 1660
From: the Heart of It All
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 19, 2004 12:19 AM
When I saw this string it reminded me of a passage from the book Love Without Conditions. I'm not sure how much sense it will make to you without the context of the rest of the book, but here it is anyway:In every moment you must decide to play the victim or remember that you cannot be unfairly treated. In the former case, you will resent the gift and see it as a punishment; in the latter, you will accept what comes your way knowing that it brings a blessing you cannot yet see. ... The next time you are poised to judge or condemn another, pause a moment and let that person into your heart. Bless where you would condemn. Judge not and be glad that you have not judged. Feel the release that comes to you when you let another be free of your narrow perceptions. When I said to turn the other cheek, I instructed you to demonstrate to your brother that he could not hurt you. If he cannot hurt you, he cannot be guilty for his attack on you. And if he is not guilty, then he does not have to punish himself. When you turn your cheek, you are not inviting your brother to hit you again. You are reminding him that there is no injury. You are telling him that you know you cannot be unfairly treated. You are demonstrating to him your refusal to accept attack, for you know you are worthy and lovable in that moment. And knowing your worthiness, you cannot fail to see his. The violations and trespasses of this world will end when you refuse to be a victim or a victimizer. Then you will step out of the circle of fear and all that you do and say will be filled with grace. This each of you will experience. ------------------
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs
your course.
--Kahlil Gibran IP: Logged |
LibraSparkle
Knowflake Posts: 6034
From: Vancouver USA
Registered: May 2004
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posted October 19, 2004 01:16 AM
Again, Paras... Love it I was just reading a bit from my copy earlier today. Cool that you should post from it again  It takes two. If one person disengages from a fight, it is no longer a fight. IP: Logged |
Solane Star
Knowflake Posts: 5378
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted October 19, 2004 01:31 AM
Thanks for sharing that Paras, that was very nice!!!
Its funny how some of the same lessons go around from one group to another at the same time. What I mean is my girl friends and I were just talking about how others have these unresolved issues and carry many bags around just trying to find a place to drop them off on who every will listen and feed there garbage.(Made me feel Guilt) I allowed so many others to do this for so many years until I learned the word boundries and realized at that point that I didn't have any of my own. Couldn't figure out way no one was giving me the respect that I so thought that I deserved. That's when I started standing up for mys-elf for the first time and giving mys-elf that s-elf respect first,things really started to change around me. People started to come and go in my life and the ones that stayed, were the ones that already had there boundries in tact and in place and the victims and victimizers left to play elsewhere, where company loves misery.
Solane star 
IP: Logged |
silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted October 24, 2004 07:52 PM
I want to be able to find this when I have the time to respond (which I don't have time for right now).------------------
Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
delerious
Knowflake Posts: 800
From:
Registered: Dec 2004
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posted December 05, 2004 03:45 AM
I have also found myself the "lightning rod" or scapegoat in group situations. Helps to think about communication styles, I was more the "passive" one, letting my feelings build up,and made myself an easy target for repressed frustrations.Always have had problems with this in job situations, there always seems to be one person who has it out for me (and usually everyone else, too) Making day miserable for all! It's made certain jobs unbearable when everyone else was so nice! Will be keeping above suggestions in mind as I will be entering the job market soon! (fear shivers) Say prayers I find my dreamjob!! love yas ------------------
"Too much sanity may be madness, and the maddest of all is to see the world as it is, and not as it should be" Don Quixote IP: Logged |
virgotaurustaurus
Knowflake Posts: 2474
From: upstate NY, USA
Registered: Oct 2004
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posted December 05, 2004 03:55 AM
Whoa this is cool that this thread popped back up, this is something I'm trying to figure out on my own here, especially since I have had to deal with verbally abusive people on an almost consistent basis. The thing is, there are people I know who I cannot set up boundaries with. Only in my mind I can, or the way I act/react to what they say. I did find a book that should help me though, called The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense. Haven't had a chance to actually to look through it, but I hope it is what helps me at least, since I can verbally express my boundaries to these people, at least not yet. IP: Logged |
LittleLadyLeo
Knowflake Posts: 183
From: New Franklin, MO, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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posted December 06, 2004 08:44 PM
You all should read "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. There is a lot of discussion about this topic in there. It's really helped me, and let me tell you, when you deal with alcoholics and addicts all day personal abuse is a constant. I just have to remind myself "If someone has a problem with me it is their problem, not mine."Great thread. LLL  IP: Logged |
Gia
Knowflake Posts: 1154
From: California
Registered: May 2004
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posted December 06, 2004 10:46 PM
Well I think it depends on the abuse in question. I think you can turn the other cheek simply by not taking it personally. Now I'm not talking physical or constant mental domestic abuse, I'm talking about the silly stuff people get all fussed over. I really do believe by looking at the situation differently we can often change it totally.  Gia IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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