posted February 13, 2005 01:59 PM         

I feel it is unnatural for humans to have a system in life, to be controlled, but I accept that if we are to have no moderating anarchy may reign supreme. But is that so bad on a chat site?

It seems like there is one big cliche here, and many are scrambling to join in. I've also noticed that when one person has a disagreement with another, everybody jumps on the bandywagon. But its only between the two people who have beef. Why? It just seems to go against everything that is spoken about here. Such as being true to yourself, about relenquishing the ego etc. I was really happy to have found this site because it did seem like a haven from the BS you meet in the outside world, where people say left as their feet are turned to walk right.

It really doesnt feel nice.

I know it is unnessecary for me to say, and I will most definitely have more than one retort for me to Eff off (that I dont doubt); but couldnt it be different? Or is this the way things always go? Where a few people assume leadership and everybody else is left to grovel? I really dont want to believe that.

Anyways there have been many exciting reads here. I really have enjoyed reading the old posts too.

Hoestly, I am not trying to be antagonistic but I do not want to conform either.

Peace and Love to you guys.

posted February 13, 2005 05:53 PM         

Hi Danny,

I hesitated in responding to this but I really disagree with what youve said. I felt I needed to make a few points here. First off this site is probably one of the most leaniant in "free speech" that you could find on the net. You havent been here too long or seen some of the things that have gone on here. But if you had you would clearly see that this is a site where many people have shared certain thoughts, that on most other sites wouldve gotten them banned instantly.

"It is meant to be a site where you are free to share your thoughts but there are too many restrictions."

That is exactly what this site is. And alot of people think there are too little restrictions here. I honestly cannot see where you are coming from here.

"For instance, you are edited out when you swear."

Yes, would you rather people be allowed to swear, use foul language and degrade others whenever they pleased? That is contrary to what this site is about. I think that would quickly change this website into an extremely negative enviornment and people would be crying out for someone to put a stop to it. Everyone would be complaining and wondering why that type of thing was acceptable.
BTW people do swear all of the time here. There are ways to make the words show up and people do that. Do they get banned for that? No.
You will very rarely find someone getting banned here. They have to be completely out of control and a constant problem and causing major disruptions to the atmosphere of the website to get themselves banned. Unlike on some other sites posts do not get edited by "higher-ups" either. The swears do not show up but you wont find your posts getting edited by other people. Speech here is very free.

Youre view on the Moderator system is a little off. Try finding a message board without them. They are needed, especially on a board such as this with such high traffic. It is not a hierarchal system. None of us have paid any dues to be called Moderators. There are members who have been here since the beginning who have not been "promoted" to Moderator. There is nothing too special about being a Moderator. We are here to help look after the site and the content of it. Randall cant constantly be babysitting. And frankly yes, babysitters are needed. That is not the site's fault. We are not any more special than any of the Knowflakes here. It is your view and opinion if you think so. Moderators do not have any kind of magical powers nor do they want people to sit on any bandwagons.

"Is anarchy on a site so bad?" Ummm, I dont think anyone wants that. And if it were set up that way I dont think we would have the members or respect that we do. Yes, sadly people need to be "ruled". That is why we have a government and police forces. A large majority of people are out of control and look for others to keep them in line, unfortunately.

The whole bandwagon thing has been used as an weak arguement here before. I find that the members here are free and indepedent thinkers who are not "bandwagon types". If by agreeing with someone else and giving them a thumbsup that is hopping on a bandwagon that is sad. Could it possibly be that the people who are seemingly "banding together" find that they simply agree with someone else's views and want to voice their opionion? Could that person just maybe be speaking the truth and others see it the same way? Could others ego's be bruised when others seemingly "gang up" on them and they cant step outside of themselves to see if maybe there is a reason that there are people disagreeing with them? That maybe yes, indeed they are being out of line? And being extremely bothersome to others on the site?

Your post was not "unnessecary for you to say"! You are voicing your thoughts on something. That is what we do here. You are entitled to your opinions just as much as the next guy and you will see that people are pretty accepting of different opinions here! I dont think anyone is going to tell you to "Eff off". Why would they? Your post was pleasant and your thoughts are your own. I always respect people for that. I may disagree with them but that doesnt make me right and them wrong. Or looking for anyone to hop on my bandwagon. I am just as independent and nonconforming as you say you are. I never want or need anyone on my "side". If I did I wouldnt voice some of the opionions I do.

And it sounds to me like you wouldnt like it if someone did tell you to "Eff off". But wouldnt that just be their right to free speech? Or would you then turn around and call on the Moderators or the Webmaster to put a stop to it. That you thought this was supposed to be a site where you could express your opinions without being attacked? I'm sorry, I find the fact that you cant see the freedom of thought and speech on this site a little outrageous.

I too feel it is "unnatural" - or rather unfortunate - that humans have a system where they need to be controlled. But unfortunately, for the most part, they do. You can blame that on those very humans.

I'm sorry you feel that "there are a few people who assume leadership and everyone else is left to grovel." You say "you dont want to believe that". Then I would take a look around and you will find that you wont have to believe that.

It's too bad that "it doesnt feel nice" here and you "dont want to conform". I dont think anyone is asking anyone to conform to anything here. Conform to what, I wonder? This site is full of non-conformist types. I really dont know where you are coming from there.

Anyway, just had to voice my opinion as well. I hope it didnt offend you in any way. Yours did not offend me, it just made me a little suprised and bewildered.

I hope you find you would like to stick around. It's a great place. That accepts all kinds and works hard at not restricting or turning away anyone. There is alot of love here.

posted February 14, 2005 12:22 PM         

This whole thing comes down to a wonderful quote:

"We dont see things as they are, we see things as we are."

I have no idea what you people are talking about. I've tried but still dont see it. I dont see the things you speak of at all. I dont see or feel any cliques or bandwagons here. Or as if anyone is trying to get another to conform to something. Wha...??? I sure as hell feel like I am alone and in no way feel like I'm part of a clique. I have friends here sure, but it's not a clique or a bandwagon. Big difference. If you feel those things are here it is only your perception of how things are. Have fun with it. It's amazing how vastly different people see things. Makes one wonder if there is really a such thing as truth.

posted February 14, 2005 12:50 PM         

The whole 'moderator' thing? I don't moderate, I stir up , I am the first to be playful in my posts.... but I am also vocal about someone coming on being nasty... not because I am 'moderator', but because I am loud.
I am only a fake moderator anyway.. I don't actually do anything.
When I first got here, there was an actual 'Moderator Forum' with no public access, and that was disbanded and as new open thread was introduced... so in terms of 'big brother', he is pretty silent here.

posted February 14, 2005 12:54 PM         

Seriously, I've been trying to 'woo' you for a while now, am I making any progress at all?

And as for the relevant topic ...

Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err.

M.K. Gandhi .... er ...my two bit?!!

posted February 14, 2005 01:02 PM         

OMG, "I am only a fake moderator anyway...I dont do anything." ROFL Me too.

*not exactly quoting you below but saying the gist of how I agree.

You are vocal because that is who you are. Not because you feel like a high and mighty moderator. SAME HERE!

You are a defender of the things you believe in OR see as "right". Once you adore someone you will jump on any bandwagon to defend them. While at the same time you dont have to agree with everything they say.

Once again you took the words out of my mouth. Thank you God.

*hops on pixie's bandwagon, bends over for a spank*

posted February 14, 2005 01:05 PM         

....and I dont know. I find it very free here. With alot of room to err.

posted February 14, 2005 03:22 PM         

Thank you for thanking God for me... that has got to be the nicest thing..... and today has been an interestig day in terms of self-evaluation. I see the errors in judgement I am making, but I have put a stop to it. Long story...... but it is turning out okay.

posted February 15, 2005 01:32 AM         

the swearing to me would only be a courtesy to those who are really sensitive to it, just like when I'm in public I clean up my language. there's swearing as a description.,"what a f*ing day" and then there's being swore at in anger or described that way, which to me is what makes a word "Bad". When you try to draw the line it gets sticky. So what's the problem with losing those out of consideration? So many words in the language to convey anything you feel I don't miss the few censored ones.

I for one am very grateful the moderators are here they're the quickest to offer a hand in friendship or advice, and even share their lives with us!! (and they don't even make us ask for hall passes when we need to pee!!!! ) Randall, you sure know how to pick 'em, such a wonderful bunch!!!

quote:

---

I've also noticed that when one person has a disagreement with another, everybody jumps on the bandywagon. But its only between the two people who have beef. Why?

---

I think the answer to this is obvious.... we're in a forum!!! If people want to go private with a disagreement, they could email each other. when a topic comes up as friction we all might want to adress it, as it might be a common argument going on all the time in our own lives....

If you feel pressure to conform here, you must in general be afraid or insecure to stand out, cause this is one of the most open-minded places Ive found!! Don't be afraid to speak your mind! It is true maybe we do agree in general about alot of things but that is why we were drawn to this site in the 1st place.

I don't really see the "leadership" and "groveling" you talk about. Most moderators and frequent posters are just as loony tunes and confused about some areas of their lives as the rest of us!!!

Maybe it seems clichey cause the ones that know each other better from having posted a long time do seem so familiar when you're new. But like in any social situation you have to be patient and build relationships if you really want to be part of something.

Give it a chance!! Nothing is perfect in this life. You've had some exciting reads - enjoy it for what it's worth!!!

posted February 15, 2005 01:50 AM         

And I also wanted to mention that you guys keep this place going starting the best threads.... and always around - its a responsibility you've taken on and I thank you for it!!!!

posted February 15, 2005 02:11 AM         

Lol, VTT you wouldn't know there where mods here, would you? When was the last time something got moderated?

And cliques? That word seems to have such negative connotations, but it has always seemed to me that LindaLand is all pretty much just one big clique, one in which no one is unincluded. Of course, I don't spend a lot of time in the GU forum, so maybe my perspective is somewhat skewed. But I've never felt unwelcome or excluded in the time that I've posted here - this place practically exudes friendliness!

I've been to forums where everything is strictly controlled and free expression always feels stifled, but this site is so much different. So swearing is somewhat regulated, so what? Does that really curb one's ability to express oneself? I don't think so.

I'm not saying I can't see where your coming from at all Danny; in some ways you make some valid points. But nothing is perfect - we're all only human. If we were flawless embodiments of the ideals that Linda talked about, there would be no need for a forum - there would be nothing to discuss! In my opinion though, this site is about as close to perfect as it is humanly possible to get ( thanks in no small part to our great moderators!! )

posted February 15, 2005 04:49 AM         

Y'all so crazy Now, if its OK with you guys, I'm gonna park my pert li'l bum right here, and wait for a good spank...

*bends over, gingerly*
Please be gentle, its been a while.

posted February 15, 2005 09:47 AM         

I believe you mean clique, not cliche'.

A clique (pronounced 'click' or sometimes 'kleek') is an exclusive group of people.

A cliche' (pronounced 'klee-SHAY') is an over-used or stereotyped word or phrase.

posted February 15, 2005 12:20 PM         

Pixie NEVER spanks ME.

Bwaaahaaahaaa (sobbing)

posted February 15, 2005 01:08 PM         

Glad to see youre sticking around Danny.

Well said delerious and Johnny!

posted February 15, 2005 03:58 PM         

Some of have been here for quite a long time and have never been asked to be a Moderator...like MOI...

Then again..I am BOMBASTIC (I LOVE that word..thank you Lioneye)- blunt..and I really am not the Moderator type.

Does that mean I have less status here? Nope...I just carry on and voice my opinion and still give / take advice.

For an Archer it is great..I can be a windbag and I DON'T have to have the responsibility of looking things over LOL....

And as far as people jumping on bandwagons..yeah, we do DEFEND each other- especially against people that chose to come to this forum to cause trouble or start berating / demeaning a fellow knowflake.

All in all, we do disagree on points, astrological theories, politics, religion, but most of us still love / admire the people we disagree with.

It is also okay NOT to like someone, that is a part of life.