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Author Topic:   U.S citizens
peace
Knowflake

Posts: 1055
From: Honolulu,HI
Registered: Apr 2004

posted November 05, 2005 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for peace     Edit/Delete Message
If your job was outsourced,would you be willing to sacrifice your citizenship for a better life in another country?.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 12:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message
If your job's outsourced, you probably can't afford to go to another country.

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peace
Knowflake

Posts: 1055
From: Honolulu,HI
Registered: Apr 2004

posted November 06, 2005 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for peace     Edit/Delete Message
Prox,
I hope you don't mind me asking.What has America provided for you and your family that others nations can't top?.By the way,I'm asking in a friendly manner.

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted November 06, 2005 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
I love the USA, but I coudn't afford it
NH, $1,100.00 rent a month for a two bedroom duplex
to Canada, a 10 1/2 room house, for $550.00 a month with hot water, heat, and electricity included, also, socialized medicine here.
The Queen is good?

Don't know, I've been thinking of moving back to the US.

I go wherever the wind blows me

Canada is safe, Goodavage and Goodman, both said, hail to Glinda the good witch of the North
there's no place like home
hehe

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steelrose
Knowflake

Posts: 810
From: Spain
Registered: Sep 2004

posted November 06, 2005 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
I went to the UK looking for better opportunities. I became a British resident. That was fine. It gave me rights but it didn’t change my identity. It only meant that I was living there in a permanent manner.

But I would never renounce to my nationality, my true origins. At some point I was willing but, after living abroad I discovered I am a Spaniard. Nationality is origin, is identity, is what you are and where you belong. Living in the UK and travelling a lot, I dicovered those cultures were too far from me. I can’t feel I’m one of them. And I’m proud of my own heritage.

I also discovered that that golden way of life I had imagined wasn’t that golden. It depends what your priorities are in life.

I suppose I’d have renounced to it if I had felt fully identified, if I wouldn’t have felt a foreigner.

I love the UK for many reasons. And I miss many things I had there. That’s why I’m coming back to work there for a few years… But I don’t belong there. I’m not one of them.

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Svetlana
Knowflake

Posts: 254
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 06, 2005 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Svetlana     Edit/Delete Message
I've done that before too. We left Soviet Union for US. US gave us opportunitites I didn't know existed and a life style I couldn't even imagine. But of course a lot was lost too...

------------------
Watch me! I have many skills.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 09:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I'm not sure it's given me too terribly much materially that another place couldn't (granted I could get a work visa, etc...which would be no small feat in some European Countries).
But that's an easy thing to say when you've been born into the relative privilege of a middle class US household - that is to say, I could have been born into much less comfortable circumstances (financially), and my first statement's assuming that I'd be moving someplace with my life, education, and circumstances behind me.

That being said, once basic needs are met, there's more to life than finances. There's sentiment and attachment.
If I were to stay a citizen given dire financial circumstances (given I actually had an opportunity for a better life someplace), it would be because of those.
Unfortunately, my soft spot in the US is, honestly, sadly, probably disappearing.
I love the Appalachains, specifically the Shenandoah (though going Westward a bit into WV doesn't break my heart one bit). I love the hills, woods, the wildcats, the music, the caves, the farms, all of it. I love the smell of it.
Just writing about it here makes me cry.

I can honestly say that it's one of the very few places that have ever made me feel truly at home.
(Oddly enough, I felt that way in London - I could navigate my way around that city pretty well without a map...creepy; and, to a lesser extent, in a part of Western China near someplace called the Temple of the Monkey.)
There have been plenty of places that I've *enjoyed* in this life, but those let me exhale, so to speak.
I have a feeling that the Highlands of Scotland may hold the same, though - pictures of the area always fill me with a sense of ease.

I haven't travelled many places - really just the UK, China, and Tibet so far - so that might not mean anything.

~~~
I'm not sure how coherent that is.
I'm writing this on a Sunday morning with a kiddo under foot.

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proxieme
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 10:19 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Heh, looking back and now actually answering your question (I apologize...it's hard w/ a toddler ):

It's given my family a chance.
On my Mom's side, many of my ancestors apparently came over as indentured servants - Scottish, English, N. Irish, Irish - they were people who were apparently stuck enough that America provided an out.
According to the genealogy work that some on my Mom's side have done, they came over, worked off their debts, and moved to the mountains. There, they farmed and hunted and married Native Americans (there are quite a few old entries that read something like, "Sally Bartlett Marries Cherokee Man" - kind of the default category for anyone of American Indian decent for those record keepers - and then their kids are all named "Smith"; Blackfoot and Crow got in there as well, but more recently - it's thought that those family members were "beneficiaries" of the US Government's move of Plains Indians kids to schools back East).
When the economy, such as it was, went bust there, the moved back east to Culpepper and out towards DC.
My Grandmother's side started farming the land and making a living.
My Grandfather's side started construction and made a very comfortable living.

On my father's side, you have an immigrant story similar to my Mom's (but with some Texan Spaniard/Indian mixes thrown in) as well as a healthy dose of Germans and pure, Irish-Catholicism who all ended up back in the Blue Ridge; and then my Great-Grandfather, Louis Martin Aspeslagh, who left Ostend, Belgium, after his country was ravaged by WWI.

~~~

America gave those in my family a new start, new hope, new life - a new home.
But I can honestly say that if things went to crap and I had the chance for a better life in a new land, I'd take it.
Heck, things might not even have to get that bad - if a great opportunity in the right place opened itself up, I'd probably grab it.
Maybe it's in the genes

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SecretGardenAgain
Knowflake

Posts: 1254
From:
Registered: Jun 2005

posted November 06, 2005 06:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGardenAgain     Edit/Delete Message
hey prox, im a US Citizen altho my parents are both of diff nationalities (father arab, mom kashmiri). i hadnt considered ever moving from the US until 9/11, and now i wanna settle anywhere but here.

before, i thought america's modernized, hands off, to each his own, liberal policy was great. the education system is the bomb, is there anyone who would not like to go to a prestigious school and make high high salaries afterwards? (if you could afford it). yes welfare and stuff isnt that great but each country has its own personality, the American countrys personality is rugged individualism, as cliched as those words sound. you take care of urself, if u are a self starter and dont want to interfere in others rights, or if ur not too much of a groupist, then you will really love it here.

i also agree with ur wise statement that finances is not everything in fact it is only the first thing / factor.

now i feel uncomfortable here. i want to get my mba and leave. arab americans are not welcomed and appreciated in the same way. i posted in global unity about loving americans for their support after 911 and i stand by that, but increasingly, it feels like, as steelrose said, i just dont belong. i am not one of 'us' im one of 'them', and that is fine, i accept that myself. its not really discrimination, which is a very ugly word, but just alienation and isolation. sure i could earn ten times what i will if i move back to the middle east but thats A ok if i have the other things i want there.

personally i believe i am one of those ppl with a good financial sense. iwill make it wherever i go inshAllah. but, right now , ease, comfort, and being not just tolerated, but an appreciated integral part of society is something i need. with sun/merc/mars in the 9th house i definitely want to be socially involved, and i cant do that here, not with that impact.

Long winded reply, but i hope it answers at least some of ur qs

Love
SG

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Aphrodite
Knowflake

Posts: 4992
From:
Registered: Feb 2002

posted November 06, 2005 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aphrodite     Edit/Delete Message
If it was a job that I really liked to do, and if I was comfortable with new country's lifestyle and I would be happier there . . . then sure

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TheEvolution
Knowflake

Posts: 715
From: Mumbai, India
Registered: Aug 2005

posted November 06, 2005 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TheEvolution     Edit/Delete Message
what if...

world = 1 country + 1 government + 1 policy + 1 system + 1 race (human kind) + 1 law system + no religion?

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted November 06, 2005 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
= Peace on Earth

Hooray!

Now, how do we do it?

Love and Light to ALL

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SecretGardenAgain
Knowflake

Posts: 1254
From:
Registered: Jun 2005

posted November 07, 2005 01:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SecretGardenAgain     Edit/Delete Message
i fail to see how that would bring peace, it would bring suffocation, conformity, and an extreme form of groupism.

1 country would mean no place to escape its downfalls. and it WILL have downfalls as no nation does not.

1 government will mean a monopoly, no competition, a dictatorship established. how can the entire world decide on 1 government? either the tyranny of the majority will prevail or an unrepresentative minority will.

1 policy means, our way or the high way. if u dont fit in the policy, go to mars, or die.

1 system means intolerance of ideas and support of other systems. it is ALWAYS human being's desire to assimilate everyone into one big blob and discourage individualism and entrepreneurship that leads to frustration. this is the number one cause of suicide bombers in middle east. want more? then implement this!

1 race, unrealistic, and what will you call them? some people take pride in their race. i am arab becoz i speak arabic and arabic is beautiful. i dont want to be 'humankind' i am not one of many i am ME and arab is more specific. might as well go to homosapien! but i like being an arab, as i like being called a woman!

1 law system same thing as 1 policy!

no religion--u can never eliminate religion from peoples hearts. if i were crucified today i would die a muslim!

humans are diverse. let us be diverse. let us decide our own governments. let us have our own cultures. let us have our own policies, tailored to our communities. do not interfere! it is the interference that has us arabs up in arms. are we dying? then LET US PLEASE!!!!

we will figure it out ourselves!

Love
SG

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted November 07, 2005 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Moving would not bother me as long as I could afford to do so.

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Johnny
Knowflake

Posts: 2056
From: Colorado, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted November 07, 2005 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message
Hell yeah.

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted November 07, 2005 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
If all were enlightened
which will eventually happen
then the knowledge, wisdom, and truth
would prevail

ALL for ONE, and ONE for ALL

Pax et Bonum

as in the beginning
it shall be in the end... ... ...

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 11943
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted November 07, 2005 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
I'm with Fayte on this one. I've got a lot of Sag, so I love travel anyway, but I'm not particularly sentimental either, so if Switzerland (my favorite place that I've been, which may have something to do with my soul age as I just read), the UK, or Ireland would have me I'd be cool.

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1409
From:
Registered: May 2004

posted November 07, 2005 07:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
I'd move to a foreign country in the blink of an eye. Wait... I've already done it once
If I get a job somewhere unexpected, like Spain or China, or _____ (insert a random country), the only thing that might stop me is responsibility towards family.

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steelrose
Knowflake

Posts: 810
From: Spain
Registered: Sep 2004

posted November 08, 2005 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message
I also have a lot of stuff in Sag and in the 9th house plus a powerful Jupiter as my chart ruler. I love everything foreign and travelling always makes me tickle… I lived abroad for 4 years…

But I must say, no matter how much of a wanderer and an explorer you are, no matter how much you love foreign lands, languages, food and exotic cultures, which I do to the deepest of my spine and guts… Believe me, it’s tough… It’s nothing close to rosey. No matter how well you speak, how well you imitate their behavioural patterns, how much you take in. You are always a foreigner.

They tolerate you. They may love your accent and call it sexy but the bottom line is they find it amusing and weird, uncommon. They won’t understand why you’ll do certain things or behave in a certain manner… And they’ll excuse you saying “It must be your Catholic upbringing…” or “Well, you had a dictator (Franco) only 30 years ago… That must be it… Repression” or “Just give it time… Spain is only 30 years retarded, your children society will be like ours now…”

It’s tough being alone and constantly misunderstood, constantly identified as a foreigner, as soon as you open your mouth. It’s tough when you are unable to connect with any woman your age, because you don’t share anything with them… any motive or experience, any value, not even the sense of right and wrong. It’s tough to feel a complete alien, day after day for more than 1200 days of your life, one after the other…

You don’t have family. You don’t even have true friends because they don’t connect with you at all… there’s nothing shared… You don’t have a safety net. You are on your own.

They don’t understand. And you don’t fully understand them either. You try to adapt imitating them, but some things you can’t fake… Some things are part of your blood, are part of your identity, are part of those values you have been sculpted to. And you feel painfully inappropriate. You even start to believe that there is something wrong with you and you are unlovable, difficult and unable to socialize… Then you react to being anihilated, very radically sometimes… You are what you are, you are proud of it and you don’t want to become one of them.

The more different the guest culture is from your own, the more alienated you feel. That’s why guettos appear.

A work placement is great. Even if it involves to stay years… Forever is a very different matter.

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Mystic Gemini
Knowflake

Posts: 1973
From: New York City
Registered: Jul 2005

posted November 08, 2005 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mystic Gemini     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
NH, $1,100.00 rent a month for a two bedroom duplex

Tell me about it. Over here it's 1,400 just for a studio apartment.

Last year for a 3 bedroom it was 1,600 now it's 2000,00.

Yup that's the life


It's so hard because I wanna leave but I can't. i will not find another place like this ever. i would be to home sick!


------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

*´¨)
¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·´ (¸.·´ * Lost in the peace of serenity
Blind my eyes I cannot see
Lost my soul but found my heart
Again a time, when I shall start

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Yin
Knowflake

Posts: 1409
From:
Registered: May 2004

posted November 09, 2005 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yin     Edit/Delete Message
Well, Steelrose, none of us foreign-borns thinks it will be forever.

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