posted July 12, 2006 12:20 PM         

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible without surrender,
be on good terms with all others,
even the seemingly dull and ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater
and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own vocation, however humble:
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.

But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.

Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity
and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with imaginings.

Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore, be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive God to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.

Be careful.
Strive to be happy.

posted July 12, 2006 07:50 PM         

Osho says it hasnt been written
before within our recorded time -
hence, the need for it.

Supposedly,
Max Ehrmann never wrote anything similar
or even close to as good as this.
It is the only thing he is remembered for,
as far as I know.
It is usually sold by itself,
unaccompanied by his other works.

Also, intellectual property is a man-made institution.
We are not responsible for our thoughts.
And all thoughts belong to everyone,
not just the first or last person to think them.

I site references, generally,
only as a concession to convention,
or to recommend the authors.

posted July 13, 2006 09:19 AM         

While these nebulous arguments may have their own merit, they are still a little, well, silly. Anyone can claim divine intellectual property, inspiration or some such thing as that. It's only as real as you want it to be. And that too is a fine thing. We all create our own realities. Perhaps some are more real than others? I really couldn't say.

quote:

---

Osho says it hasnt been written
before within our recorded time -
hence, the need for it.

---

quote:

---

Supposedly,
Max Ehrmann never wrote anything similar

---

quote:

---

intellectual property is a man-made institution.
We are not responsible for our thoughts

---

Osho is a man-made institution.

I would say that we are indeed responsible for our thoughts, every second of every moment of every day. Our thoughts create and shape the reality in which we live. Change your perspective, and you change the world.

Thank you. I've enjoyed this.

posted July 14, 2006 02:40 PM         

I love you!
By all means, take me to task.
I saw this coming,
I even baited you.
I need this.
All I know of you is how
scrupulous, conscientious,
thorough, meticulous
you seem to be.
And this is where i fall short.
Ever concerning myself with what
I see to be the BIG picture, -
focused on that Kingdom's Castle in the Sky,
I miss "details", which, in reality,
prove to be true stumbling blocks
(indeed, corner stones) down here on earth.
I love and value input like yours very much.
I am half a person,
with half a brain, without it.

Yes, I can be careless, so careless.

Listen, though, and I will explain myself somewhat...

I do not mean to suggest that one thing
may be channelled, while another may not.
I dont see things that way.
I think all things are revealed.
Some things are revealed from on high,
and some are revealed from a place
just beyond the threshold of personal consciousness.
We are revealed.
Our personalities, our souls,
all eminates from spirit;
some things are just more encumbered by self than others -
like, the closer they get to ego,
the more polluted and distorted they become.
(This is the teaching of Kabbala,
of Spinoza, of Schopenhauer, Hinduism,
Buddhism, Taoism, Sufism,
and Christianity, as I understand
and/or interpret them.)
I only meant to suggest that Desiderata
is a mysteriously pure revelation.

Salinger did not create Salinger.
(btw, I love his other books -
I read Franny and Zooey 3 times,
Raise High the Room Beam Carpenters twice,
and Nine Stories just once, so far. -
The only one I dont like is
Seymour, an Introduction -
it is soooooo wordy;
and not in a magnificent, Proustian sort of way, either.)

I have serious doubts about Osho, too.
(Let me make clear that I do not suggest these things
because I believe them to be factual,
but, because I believe that the larger ideas
they reflect are most worthy of consideration.
Yes, I am Uranian as heck.)
But the teachings presented in Ehrmann's poem
are so simple and they have that timeless,
epic, or universal ring.
It seems to me that things like this
come down to us at very specific times
for very specific reasons.
Whether or not this may be perceived
from the perspective of one whose
primary value is objective fact,
I do not know,
but it corresponds to an experience of soul,
a personal relation to something
which has, for me, the unmistakable
ring of truth, albeit subjective truth.
I think there is something to be said for this way of seeing,
despite the confusion it brings to our worldly understanding.
I think it asks us to focus on something meaningful,
some essential inspiration behind the forms
that things take in the world.
It is fire; not of this earth.
Did you see this:
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled,
but a fire to be kindled."
- Plutarch

I would have said "fueled" instead of "kindled".
It makes more sense,
and has the added effect of symmetry
(when compared/contrasted with "filled").

I confess, I changed a word in Max's poem.
Where I wrote "vocation"
he wrote "career".
I am positive this is the better choice,
but, in retrospect, I am as horrified
as you must be, at my pressumption.
I would not want people changing "my" words -
but then, my judgement is infallible, lol!,
and Ehrmann's (or the translator's?)
clearly was not, he-he!

In summary, to explain my position:
Everything is channelled,
and everything is a channel.

Yes, we are responsible in the sense
that we have no choice in the matter.
People speak often of cause and effect,
in order to support their views on so-called "free will".
They remind us that every cause has an effect.
But how peculiar it is,
most everyone i talk to seems to forget
that every cause IS also an effect.

"I will surely take responsibility for myself,
but who will take responsibility for ME?"
- C'est Moi!

Who will police
the thought police?

posted July 14, 2006 03:23 PM         

I don't know much about you, either, except that you have a passion for the esoteric. I'm afraid that I don't have must taste for the -isms and -anitys. I eschew religion, so my ability to quote and banter about past/current leaders is limited.

I'm going to take this food of yours and give it some thought before I respond completely. I'm also at work and lo...they have stuff for me to do!

However, this jumps out at me first:

quote:

---

Everything is channelled,
and everything is a channel.

---

It may be semantics here, over the definition of channelling. But I've gotta disagree. Here's a quote for you:

"Though Art God." --Heinlein

Maybe we're saying the same thing. God/dess doesn't need anything to be channelled, because all that Is, Is, and All That Is is already God/dess.

All right, they need me to work, so I'll have to complete this thought sometime over the weekend. Apologies for the brevity and loose strings...

But thank you for the challenge, HSC. I'm well aware that often I as seen as the type of person a certain bit of prose finds to be objectionable...

quote:

---

Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexations to the spirit.

---

Have spoon, find pot, will stir. But I do love the chance to stir things up and exchange some ideas with those who are secure enough in their own beliefs, that they can banter with those who might be opposed.

posted July 14, 2006 03:40 PM         

quote:

---

Salinger did not create Salinger.

---

Disagree.

quote:

---

I only meant to suggest that Desiderata
is a mysteriously pure revelation.

---

On this, I will agree.

posted July 15, 2006 10:42 AM         

Doesnt take much to bait me either,
being a Scorpio w/ Aries on the 3rd,
Mars closely conjunct Mercury in Sag, angular.

I eschew what most people call "religion", as well.
I have found, though, that what most people call "religion,
is far from what the mystics and spriritual thinkers
of all time have tried to make it into.

You are right to call it semantics.
I agree, everything is already God/dess,
and this is also what all the religions
have held to be true, at their core,
despite the misinterpretation of their doctrines
by those who have attached themselves to religion
with the intention of promoting their own mistakes and wrong views.

In truth, if everything were not God/dess,
then the word God/dess would have no meaning
and serve no higher purpose.

I respect your right to disagree with me,
when I say that Salinger did not create himself.
But, I would suggest the futility of your doing this
without providing at least one reason
to support your point of view.

posted July 16, 2006 03:59 AM         

I enjoyed reading your exchanges, trilli & HSC. , and The Desiderata, once again.

posted July 17, 2006 09:16 AM         

Anyway, it's been a busy weekend and I haven't spent a lot of time on this subject.

As for citing sources, HSC, am I not source enough? I'll use your selection from Edie Brickell: "I know what I know if you know what I mean." I'm not trying to cop out on you. Sources are great when you're searching for a cure, or writing a paper, etc., but when it comes to the esoteric, well, none of the sources agree on anything! Ok, I'll give you that generally most sources agree on some sort of Deity, but they can't agree on who or what She is.

"Who made who? Who made you? -AC/DC

Well, if you are the creator of your reality, you made you. And you made Salinger. And if God/dess is everything, then God/dess did in fact create Salinger, and Salinger created God. And since this is my reality, I suppose I made you and Salinger. So yeah, you're right, Salinger didn't make Salinger. I did.

Thou Art God.

Sometimes I take people to task not because I want to prove a specific point, but because I want to illustrate that there are many possibilities, and all may be true. And all may be false. I only know what I know today. Tomorrow I might know something else.

We wake every day to our relatively static lives. The sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, and all is generally right in the world. And we want our religion to fit like that, too. We want One Answer to be right, because that's comfortable and we don't have to think about it anymore.

Personally, I don't want to be comfortable or complacent when it comes to Life, The Universe & Everything. (Hitchhiker's Guide reference; you really must read them, if you have not.)

I'm really not meticulous or any of the other nice things you attributed to me. I'm sometimes loud and aggressive and I am blunt and lots of other stuff. But I will try to post more on this later today...

I only have my answers and my questions.

posted July 17, 2006 11:28 AM         

hey,

Indeed, there is something to be said for "loud and aggressive" people. "To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under heaven." When the house is in flames, one mustn't counsel meditation, or resist the turning winds of change. "When I'm through, I'll meditate," - k. cobain And when the search for peace grows impatient, it is surely time to sing and dance. A friend of mine wrote to me "teach peace by being at peace". I replied, "teach exuberance by being exuberant". Here is the entire exchange (he was responding to my poem "the razor's edge"):

HIM:

teach peace by being at peace
razors are just a hardened feather
no blade that cuts counts
the zero surface is the stage we play for
encumbered by worries, too heavy to avoid contact

focusing on the center of a window
the rain forms reflections
i see nothing in the wonderous streams.
there is no two, only ever one
there is no division just the silly idea there of

ME:

Easier said than one...

Teach exuberance by being exuberant!
feathers are just more subtle razors;
no analogy is perfect -
analogous but not identical.
entertained by questions,
touching down only to dance upon that stage.

Making use of the window to look through,
the reflection of light is also light,
i see everything in wonderous dreams,
there is no knowing the One,
for the knower makes "two",
there is no oneness,
just the divisive idea thereof.

I welcome and accept your refusal to cite sources outside of your own soul's conviction. I do not see it as a cop-out. My objection is to those who would claim an outside source to support a stubborn soul ("stubborn" in the best sense of the word). Each has its place; reason and faith, and it irks me only when they get confused; misplaced.

"Salinger didn't make Salinger. I did. "

Fair enough.

"Thou Art God."

I like this, but I would repeat my fond injunction, that "truth is context". Just as there is truth in what you say, there is an equal and opposite truth that follows in its train, like a shadow. As one seeker has put it, "[You contain a spark of the divinity, but, just because the Sun warms and penetrates you, do not make the mistake of thinking you are that Sun],".

"I only know what I know today.
Tomorrow I might know something else."

And that is true wisdom; to change with the tides, but never to change from changing. This is the invisible thread, to which so many are blind. Attachment to the ebb denies the flow, and vice-versa, but the tides are eternal. "Read not the times, read the eternities." - thoreau Read both!

"Personally, I don't want to be comfortable or complacent
when it comes to Life, The Universe & Everything."

"One must remain dissatisfied,
in order to always be changing and growing."
- Andre Gide

"I'm really not meticulous or any of the
other nice things you attributed to me."

Oh? Perhaps my carelessness, and tendency to rashly imbue individuals with archetypal significance, is showing again. But, I could have sworn there were certain posts you had left, mostly in Health and Healing, which seemed to evidence a hard-won erudition, and refusal to settle for any but the most stringenty supported claims. I haven't confused you with someone else, have I? Oh, it is forgivable, I hope. (Note to self: STOP smoking massive quantities of pot!)

"I am blunt and lots of other stuff."

There are worse things to be; like passive-aggressive. I have difficulty tolerating people who do not say what they mean, and go very far out of their way to make others comfortable, only to end up full of resentments, and employing under-handed means, in order to avoid confrontations at all costs. I understand why they do it. But I enjoy teasing them, just the same. For instance, my sister (pisces sun in 12th) is this way, and, on one occassion, her boyfriend was so eager to play mini-golf, and he was absolutely oblivious to her hints (which were abundantly clear to me), that she did not want to go, but instead of saying so, she kept suggesting things like, "oh, it will be sunny tomorrow, wouldn't YOU like to go in the daytime," etc., and he was just so childlike and enthused and kept insisting on how he couldnt wait to play mini-golf, and she kept saying sh-- like, "well, i could go either way, maybe we should let STEVE decide," and there I was in the back seat, hating/loving every minute of it, saying, "oh, really, I dont care ((and I didn't)), I'll let you guys decide," just to give her a chance to be honest with herself, and him, and not always put the decision off on somebody else. I just knew she would resent the hell out of him, and sulk (with a crooked smile) the whole time. I suggested that it didnt seem like she was too keen on the idea, and you should have seen the look of horror on her face, lol.

Ahhh.....

I love being a Scorpio.

"I will try to post more on this later today..."

Suit yourself.
Always a pleasure,
but do not imagine that,
in this brief post of yours,
you have said less than volumes.

Be Great!,
HSC

"All is true." - Shakespeare

posted July 17, 2006 03:57 PM         

quote:

---

Just as there is truth in what you say, there is an equal and opposite truth that follows in its train, like a shadow.

---

Amen.

More soon...

posted July 19, 2006 09:17 AM         

Oh, am I not the sun? Are you sure? I checked and yup, I still have Leo rising. I'm pretty sure an Aries with Leo rising is indeed the sun. But herein lies the dichotomy...if we are only a spark of the Divine, and not the Divine, then all things are not One. All things are then individual pieces. A son is not his father, but a piece of him. They are not One, but they are created from a specific carbon-based lineage, sharing DNA. But if all things are One, then there is only the illusion of separation.

Honestly, I think both are true, and perhaps my esoteric math sense is limited. This is probably quite true, too. I am but an egg.

You know, when Thoreau was on that pond, he failed to include in his writings that his wife and daughter visited him almost daily with food and supplies, and that friends (other writers of note) often spent time with him, and that he traveled home on the weekends. He was not as isolated as he would have you think! When I first read that, I was disappointed. Later, I was delighted with the reminder that there are always sides we don't see, but that we can still discover.

It might have been me you've seen in Health and Healing. Learning about natural methods to be more healthy is a passion of mine, and I post there more than anywhere else.

I get what you're saying about passive-aggressive people. They frustrate me. But generally I adore Pisces people. My Mars is in Pisces in the 7th and they gravitate to me. Interestingly, the often center me, and have an inherent understanding/acceptance of my sometimes fluctuating energies.

Thank you for this lively exchange, HSC.