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Author Topic:   Madonna's Crucifixion: Insultful Publicity Stunt or Thought Provoking Gesture?
Divine Goddess
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From: The arms of unconsciousness
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posted August 11, 2006 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
I know it's pretty old news by now, but I just wanted to see what people have to say about it.


Here are some news articles about it.


Rome 'unites to condemn Madonna'

Posted: 03 August 2006 - From BBC News Online

Religious leaders in Rome have united against the mock-crucifixion featured in US pop star Madonna's latest show.
In the sequence, Madonna appears on a giant cross wearing a crown of thorns.
Father Manfredo Leone of Rome's Santa Maria Liberatrice church told Reuters news agency it was 'disrespectful, in bad taste and provocative'.
Muslim and Jewish leaders have also raised objections. Madonna performs in Rome on 6 August ahead of six further dates at London's Wembley Arena.
The 47-year-old received similar complaints during the American leg of her Confessions world tour, with one critic accusing her of 'blatant insensitivity'.
The singer has defended the imagery by saying it forms part of an appeal to her audience to donate to Aids charities.
'Being raised on a cross with a crown of thorns like a modern Christ is absurd,' continued Father Leone. 'Doing it in the cradle of Christianity comes close to blasphemy.'
Mario Scialoja, head of Italy's Muslim League, told Reuters Madonna would 'do better to go home', a sentiment echoed by a spokesman for Rome's Jewish community.
Madonna has invited controversy before, notably with her 1989 Like a Prayer video, which featured a black Christ-like figure and burning crosses, and a 1990 tour in which she simulated masturbation on stage.

*~*~*~*~*

Even Russia's on it

Russian Orthodox Church calls for boycott

Posted: 05 August 2006 - From AFP Via Yahoo! News

Russia's Orthodox Church accused US superstar Madonna of exploiting Christian symbols for her own ends and called for a boycott of her first-ever concert in Moscow.
'The US singer Madonna exploits Christian symbols - the cross, rosary beads and the crucifix - and tries to equate human passions, including her own personal passions, with something sacred,' the spokesman for the patriarch of Moscow said.
'I don't think that Orthodox believers should support this lady by going to her concert,' father Vsevolod Chaplin said on Echo of Moscow radio station.
She 'needs spiritual help because she swings between Christianity and Kabbalah,' he said, referring to a branch of Jewish mysticism that the singer follows.
Madonna will perform in Russia for the first time on September 11 as part of her 'Confessions' world tour. The concert will take place on a specially constructed stage on Sparrow Hills overlooking the city centre, close to Moscow State University.
The pop diva will arrive in the Russian capital with 57 trucks and 200 tonnes of equipment in tow, the organisers said. Tickets cost between 1,500 rubles (55 dollars, 45 euros) and a hefty 25,000 rubles (930 dollars, 730 euros).
Madonna kicked off the European leg of her world tour in the Welsh city of Cardiff on July 30 where she gyrated on a saddle floating above the stage and sang from a crucifix in a performance involving provocative dance routines.
She has often sparked outrage among religious leaders with raunchy video clips, notably when she kissed a black Christ in front of a burning cross in her 1989 hit 'Like a Prayer'


*~*~*~*~*

Madonna's response of sorts.

Madonna invites Pope to controversial concert

Posted: 06 August 2006 - From Yahoo! 7 News

Religious leaders have accused Madonna of 'blasphemy' for staging a mock-crucifixion - minutes from The Vatican.
The pop singer wears a crowns of thorns and poses on a mirrored cross in a scene from her Confessions world tour which comes to Rome today.
Outraged Christians are calling for the singer to be 'excommunicated' from the Catholic Church.
But Madonna has responded by inviting Pope Benedict XVI to her show.
Cardinal Ersilio Tonino, speaking with the Pope's approval, was quoted by Italian newspaper La Stampa as saying: 'This is a blasphemous challenge to the faith and a profanation of the Cross. She should be excommunicated. To crucify herself in the city of popes and martyrs is an act of open hostility.'
In a show of religious solidarity Muslin and Jewish leaders have also criticized the 47-year-old star - now a staunch follower of the Kabbalah faith.
Mario Scialoja, president of the Muslim World League in Italy said: 'We deplore it, we feel it is an act of bad taste. She would do better to go home.'
Madonna previously upset the Catholic Church with her 1989 music video for 'Like A Prayer', featuring burning crosses and a black Jesus.

*~*~*~*~*

Italy's reaction to the concert which took place there

Italians Go Wild Over Madonna in Rome

Posted: 07 August 2006 - From Associated Press Via Yahoo! News

Desperately seeking Madonna. Hundreds of Italians gathered in front of her hotel and rushed to Rome's most chic street in hopes of getting a glimpse of the American pop star, who was to perform in a concert Sunday night at the Olympic stadium.
Fans started pouring in to the stadium early in the afternoon; some had camped out to get a spot right in front of the stage. Some 70,000 people were expected at the concert, the only Italian date of her 'Confessions' tour.
A few hundred people also gathered in front of Madonna's hotel in downtown Rome on Saturday. A rumor that she was shopping on Via Condotti, Rome's fashion street, sent hundreds of fans there, newspaper Il Messaggero and other dailies reported Sunday.
The concert has drawn criticism in Roman Catholic Italy, especially because of Madonna's plans to appear crucified on a mirrored cross while wearing a crown of thorns.
Religious leaders have condemned the mock crucifixion as an act of hostility toward the Roman Catholic Church and as a publicity stunt in bad taste.
But Madonna's New York-based spokeswoman, Liz Rosenberg, said in an e-mail that 'the context of Madonna's performance on the crucifix is not negative nor disrespectful toward the church.'

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Fans cheer Madonna at Rome concert

Posted: 07 August 2006 - From AP Via Yahoo! News

Religious leaders may have snubbed Madonna, but Italian fans cheered the pop star as she staged a mock crucifixion at her concert in Rome.
A crowd of 70,000 attended Sunday night's performance at Olympic Stadium, some two miles from the Vatican. The scene of Madonna on a mirrored cross and wearing a crown of thorns, part of her worldwide 'Confessions' tour, had drawn fire from religious leaders, who condemned it as an act of hostility toward the Roman Catholic Church.
'She does it to play, not to offend,' said Benedetta Mori, a 31-year-old fan wearing a T-shirt with an image of Madonna on the cross. 'If they allowed her to stage the show here they must also play by her rules.'
Madonna's representatives have said the performance on the cross, which has been included from the outset of the tour in May, is not disrespectful toward the church.
The 47-year-old singer is known for her theatrical, action-packed shows. Besides her rendition of 'Live to Tell' while on the cross, her two-hour performance included two dancers with a Star of David and a Muslim crescent painted on their torsos who embraced and held hands.
A figure wearing a robe and turban did a solo on the shofar, a ram's horn traditionally blown during the Jewish high holidays, then joined Madonna, who is a kabbalist, to perform 'Isaac,' a song about Yitzhak Luria, a 16th-century Jewish mystic and kabbalah scholar.
'Did you know two miracles have taken place in Rome?' Madonna told the crowd. 'Italy won the World Cup and it stopped raining before my show.'
Keeping in touch with her Material Girl side, she got the crowd moving with her gyrating dancing and disco-flavored numbers.
'Ciao Roma! Are you ready to ride with me?' said the equestrian-styled singer as she opened a concert that included 'Hung Up,' 'Music,' 'Like a Virgin' and 'La Isla Bonita.'

*~*~*~*~*~*


Here's a transcript from a debate from the Paula Zahn Show on CNN

Where Madonna goes, controversy usually follows, and that's made her a very rich woman, hasn't it? But what she has done this time is a top story and it has the Vatican absolutely outraged. Should she have gotten up on a cross like that with the Vatican just next door? What do you think? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Well, the headlines in Rome are calling her revered and reviled. Our top story in entertainment tonight, Madonna drawing a huge crowd to the Olympic stadium in Rome to see her mix music with religious symbols and pictures of Pope Benedict, Hitler and Osama bin Laden, classic Madonna stuff. But this time the concert turned out to be a shocker for another reason. More on Madonna's outrageous performance and the explosive reaction from entertainment correspondent Brooke Anderson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Madonna has managed to do what seemed impossible, unite Catholics, Muslims, and Jews. Leaders of those faiths in Italy all condemned her concert in Rome, not for moves like this. But for this image, Madonna crucified on the cross.

REV. DON DE MARCO, CHURCH OF SAN LORENZO IN LUCINA: It's a lack of respect for all Christians.

ANDERSON: As she has on earlier stops on her confessions tour, Madonna strapped herself to a cross during a performance of the song "Live to Tell," wearing a crown of thorns. But it was the geography that the church found most offensive this time. Last night's concert held in a stadium in the shadow of the Vatican.

One Vatican official, a cardinal, labelled it a blasphemous publicity stunt and an open act of hostility toward the church. A local priest accused Madonna of toying with a sacred symbol.

DE MARCO (through translator): For we believers, we Christians, the cross represents the meaning of all meanings, that is the most absolute, profound value of the love of god.

ANDERSON: The head of Italy's Muslim World League, likewise, called the mock crucifixion an act of bad taste and a spokesman for Rome's Jewish community expressed solidarity with the Vatican, calling Madonna's performance disrespectful. The controversy didn't stop tens of thousands of fans from crowding Olympic Stadium. Many said Madonna was just expressing her artistic freedom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's a sign of no respect for the Christian church, but I think it's just a symbolic vision of life.

ANDERSON: Madonna's publicist told CNN the singer's mock crucifixion which is accompanied by a video montage of children in Africa is meant to dramatize the plight of children suffering around the world. She added, Madonna has said I don't think Jesus would be mad at me.

This is not the first time Madonna has offended religious leaders. Her 1989 video for the song Like A Prayer, which showed her caressing a black Jesus earned similar condemnation, 17 years later the Catholic Church says it's the same old song. Brooke Anderson, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: All right. You can get set for some pretty strong opinions on all this. Our top story panel is all wound up, aren't you, gang, and ready to take on Madonna's performance. Joining me here image consultant, Marven Britto of the Britto Agency, President of the Catholic League Bill Donahue, and in Los Angeles nationally syndicated progressive talk radio host Stephanie Miller. Great to see all of you. You've heard Bill what Madonna said, this is all about raising awareness of AIDS and poverty in America to an audience that hasn't been exposed to it and Jesus wouldn't be upset by this.

BILL DONOHUE, PRES. THE CATHOLIC LEAGUE: And she couldn't do it without insulting Christians. You know, it's amazing how anyone's going to believe this, last week Mel Gibson made a tremendous mistake. He has this anti-semitic rant. He says it in private when he's drunk. Now the same people are going to give her a pass. This is calculated. She does it when she's sober. She's been doing this since the 1980s. This is a woman who has obviously crossed the line. Had she pulled the concert off in Venice on Saturday night, it might have been one thing, she went to Rome on Sunday. We know what she's doing.

ZAHN: She has a perfect right to do this, right Stephanie Miller?

STEPHANIE MILLER, TALK SHOW HOST: You know Paula, what I'm shocked about is that anyone can still be shocked about Madonna. I'm shocked about that. And I think that a lot of our friends on the religious right are playing missing the point entirely. I think what she's talking about is what religion is supposed to be about and Jesus talked a lot about helping the poor and helping the needy and he said nothing about homosexuality. A lot of these gay-bashers on the right and people that are defending Mel Gibson's anti-semitic rant, it's kind of ironic that they're outraged by a Madonna show, that's covered by the first amendment.

DONOHUE: She's going to get some high points for this. Let me ask you something, lady, if she does a song called "The Holocaust is a Hoax" and she jumps out of a big oven are you going to consider that to be art as well?

MILLER: Is that in the next show?

DONOHUE: You can't answer my question, can you? You want to start again on that?

MILLER: How can someone say Jews start all the worlds in the world and not be a bigot.

ZAHN: Let's come back to the issue, and the point Bill was making, that you can basically take anything out of any religion and insult people and if that kind of imagery was used about the Holocaust, would you use the same argument here?

MILLER: Well, my point, Paula, is just that, you know, if you watch what she's doing, she's trying to make a statement about the fact that, you know, this is true, that some of the policies of the Catholic Church do result in 12 million orphans from AIDs in Africa, you know and I mean why aren't the Catholic Church as outraged about priests molesting little children.

DONOHUE: That's the real issue, thank you.

ZAHN: Let's come back to the issue. You're an image consultant. And you've represented a lot of high powered music talent, some would call divas along the way. This obviously wouldn't be maybe what you'd select to make them relevant, but it works. Look at her concert. This is a $200 million tour. She's bringing in more money than any female artist ever.

MARVET BRITTO, IMAGE CONSULTANT: Absolutely. And Madonna's a 47-year-old artist who has to compete with talent half her age, so, you know, she's clever in trying to think of any way she can bring controversy and attention to her tours, and she does it in the most brilliant way. She packs them in, people are interested in her because remember Madonna has to keep reinventing herself. She's two decades in the business. She started in the '80s. It's now 2000. So in order to keep herself relevant, she has to think of clever media ways to garner attention.

ZAHN: And of course Bill Donohue has been over this for years. We know you don't like the messenger. We know you don't like the message, but what about the people who are paying $300 a ticket to go to a concert? Are they bad Catholics?

DONOHUE: Not at all. But I'll tell you this much --

ZAHN: Wait a minute. Where's the contradiction here.

DONOHUE: If you took this act out of hers, the mock-crucifixion out, people would still go to see it because she's a phenomenal entertainer. That's what's even more disturbing. This is gratuitous. She always chooses my religion. We thought we got rid of her. If she chose Muslims she might lose her head.

MILLER: Bill, you don't have to go see her show if you don't want to.

DONOHUE: No, that's not the question. Don't tell me that she's standing up for poverty and AIDs and insulting my religion. Try again, Stephanie. Try again.

MILLER: Bill, this is exactly why Democrats are reclaiming moral values.

ZAHN: I've got to cut you all off. Appreciate all of your opinions. Madonna, can you hear us? We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: And that's it for all of us tonight. Thanks so much for being with us. We'll be back same time, same place, tomorrow night. Good night.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*

Some Pics of the mock Crucifixion on tour.
http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/2006ct/rome_060806_laura5.jpg
http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/2006ct/london_030806_laura1.jpg
http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/2006ct/london_010806_simon2.jpg
http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/2006ct/boston_060706_djdannyechi7.jpg
http://www.madonnalicious.com/images/extra/2006/elgrafico_070806.jpg

http://www.drownedmadonna.com/images/2006/germania/WAZ8agob.jpg


*~*~*~*~*

So, what are your thoughts and opinions?

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Superstition is to religion what astronomy is to astrology: the mad daughter of a wise mother

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Dulce Luna
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posted August 11, 2006 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Publicity stunt

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Divine Goddess
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posted August 11, 2006 11:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
Okay, dont just give one liners, give a reason for your opinion. Make this an intelligent debate.

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Superstition is to religion what astronomy is to astrology: the mad daughter of a wise mother

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Dulce Luna
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posted August 11, 2006 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Sorry. I don't know, maybe I'm being biast but I would never associate Madonna with the words "thought provoking". I always get this impression from her that she does it all for attention; I just can't take her seriously. If anyone diagrees with me thats fine but this is my opinion of her.

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Divine Goddess
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posted August 12, 2006 12:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
Well, perhaps you are being biased, perhaps you arent. However, the topic was if it was an "Insulting Publicity Stunt" or not.

Anyway. Being someone who has seen the show, I can say that there wasn't anything insulting about it. The song performed while on the crucifix is called "Live to Tell", a song about surviving a morbid part of your life and well, "living to tell" about it.

The song begins with an interlude, where some of her back up dancers narate stories of childhood abuse and trauma through interpretive dance, while their stories are voiced throughout. Then once Madonna "rises" on the cross, the screens are filled with poverty struck children in Malawi, with messages like "Every Year, 12 million children are orphaned by AIDS". As the performance goes on, they show clips of how children die of hunger and malnutrition, as well as, a horrific clip of how children in such poverty struck regions eat a decaying vulture they found. At the end of the performance, a charity website's name is displayed prominently, urging people to take action. Madonna herself contributed 3 million dollars, and started a program to feed, cloth, and school, children in Malawi. Her contribution has already been accounted for over 1000 orphans.

So i can't see why the church would be offended?

Here are video clips of the performance on youtube... do take a look and see for yourselfs. Is it still and Insultful Publicity Stunt, or a Thought Provoking Gesture.

(A very good quality one) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sibpl6fJa7I

(Not good quality, but full performance) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NiNNBveTDI

*~*~*~*~*

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Superstition is to religion what astronomy is to astrology: the mad daughter of a wise mother

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Dulce Luna
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posted August 12, 2006 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, perhaps it was what I didn't think it was. I didn't actually see the concert so I just assumed based on the stunts she's pulled in the past. I was offended before because I thought she was using it as a publicity stunt. Seeing the concert myself has changed my mid. Thank you

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Gemini Nymph
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posted August 12, 2006 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
I personally find it offensive that people would take Madonna seriously enough as to consider she's trying to do anything other than shallow, shameless entertainment/publicity. She's a fake. That's all.

As for taking religious iconogrgaphy and using it for personal gain, there's nothing redeeming about that. If the Churches wish to object, I won't pass judgement on them. Part of their responsibilty to their religion is to protect the integrity of the faith.

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Divine Goddess
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posted August 12, 2006 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
"As for taking religious iconogrgaphy and using it for personal gain, there's nothing redeeming about that. If the Churches wish to object, I won't pass judgement on them. Part of their responsibilty to their religion is to protect the integrity of the faith. "

So when Kanye West posed as Jesus on the cover of Rollingstone Magazine, and the vatican did/said nothing about it, that's an example of how they protect the integrity of their faith. Such an act only served Kanye himself, he wasn't doing it to support any cause or any belief.
http://static.flickr.com/12/90752161_969a5e842f.jpg

So why should Madonna be a victim of backlash just because she did it live and in the hope of opening people's eyes to the tragedies of Malawi?

Unfair isn't it?


*~*~*~*~*

For those who havent seen this, this is the famously infamous, "Like a Prayer" video, for which the Vatican started it's campaign against Madonna in the late eighties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icrUkBaSefs


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Superstition is to religion what astronomy is to astrology: the mad daughter of a wise mother

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lovely*
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posted August 13, 2006 02:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
I see no issue here. It's meant to entertain. If people are offended, don't go to her show. DO you think God or Jesus is up there feeling offended by some little human parading around like a puppet?

I watched her at Staples in Los Angeles 2 days after 9/11. She had this scottish kilt on and more or less said.. [hey people, terrorism is EVERYWHERE, all over the world. The US is no more important than any other country, small or large.

Initially I was taken aback in my narrow little sensitive mind. I sat back and thought "how dare you come here and say this when we;re all suffering in America" Then I got it.

You have to get it.

I think this thing she did went along with the theme of her show. It's a show!!!

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Divine Goddess
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posted August 13, 2006 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
A very good post lovely*

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The opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference. And if you hate me, that means you still care and we're still connected.

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Charlotte
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posted August 13, 2006 05:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Charlotte     Edit/Delete Message
Wow, not sure how I feel, but it was quite a statement and anything that brings awareness to the aids epidemic in Africa is needed, sometimes images like this-get people to think!

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May the angel of your higher s-elf, guide you always.

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lovely*
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posted August 13, 2006 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
thanks divine goddess, you made a good point about kanye also. Everclear is also in the news about thier new video for the song "Hater"..
http://www.alternativeaddiction.com/musicnews/article.asp?id=653

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Divine Goddess
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posted August 16, 2006 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Divine Goddess     Edit/Delete Message
According to CNN.com Madonna Could go to jail

From Cnn .com

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- Prosecutors plan to keep an eye on Madonna's weekend concert in Duesseldorf to see if the pop diva repeats the mock crucifixion scene that has drawn fire from religious leaders.

Johannes Mocken, a spokesman for prosecutors in Duesseldorf, said Tuesday that a repeat of that scene during Sunday's concert could be construed as insulting religious beliefs.

Madonna, who is known for her theatrical, action-packed shows, wears a crown of fake thorns while performing on a mirrored cross.

The stunt, which has been included from the outset of her worldwide "Confessions" tour, has been criticized as an act of hostility toward the Roman Catholic Church.

Representatives for the singer, who will be 48 on Wednesday, have said the scene is not disrespectful toward the church.

Mocken said authorities would rely on media reports rather than sending observers to the concert and that the show might be covered by laws protecting artistic freedoms.

Earlier this month, religious leaders in Rome condemned the concert stunt.

Some 70,000 fans attended Madonna's performance at Olympic Stadium, some two miles from the Vatican

*~*~*~*~*

Hmmm...freedom of speech?

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The opposite of love isn't hate. It's indifference. And if you hate me, that means you still care and we're still connected.

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