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Author Topic:   The Holy Roman Empire
BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003

posted March 14, 2007 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message
The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire, discuss.

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Dulce Luna
Knowflake

Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted March 14, 2007 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm, I just re-learned about this in class. Yes, I agree it wasn't Roman (duh, the German Princes). Was it an Empire? I don't know. Was it Holy? Well, it was given to the First Emperor by the Pope (sort of ) and I'm sure was blessed by the Pope...so yes, I think it was Holy.

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Bluemoon
Knowflake

Posts: 4456
From: Stafford, VA USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted March 14, 2007 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bluemoon     Edit/Delete Message


They had nice hats.

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted March 14, 2007 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
Back Later.
Post keeps glitching and not posting links and my essay etcetera correctly.
Some links for now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance http://www.undergodprocon.org/pop/PledgeHistory.htm

Bellamy salute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
Roman salute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_salute
Hitler salute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_salute

As The REPUBLIC of Rome was not a DEMOCRACY
The United States of America is not a Democracy but a REPUBLIC.

quote:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands:....

As Rome became The Holy Roman Empire without true separation of Church and Government...
So has the U.S.A.
Official Versions;
Note...No "under God" until later.

quote:
Versions of the Pledge: (changes between versions are shown in bold; for reason of the changes, please see the History section)

1892:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1892 to 1923:
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1923 to 1954:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."
1954 to Present:
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all."


The U.S.A....The New Rome?
As Rome overextended her reach and sought world domination both political and religious...is the U.S.A. treading the same path to its own "Decline and Fall?"

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Xodian
Moderator

Posts: 1699
From: Canada
Registered: Dec 2006

posted March 14, 2007 04:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire

Couldn't have put it better myself. The Holy Roman Empire is often confused with the Byzintine Empire but they are two different and distinct empires.

As much a Holy Roman Emperor thought he was in control, the real power layed with the Pope who crowned the Holy Roman Emperor... Well... Until Barbarossa decided to appoint his own pope who did as Barbarossa wished. It was kinda funny to see two popes Ex-communicate each other Lol!

Anyway, compared to other famous empiresin history, the Holy Roman Empire can be considered considrably... puny. It was just a few Germanic states locked togather through a treaty. Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Czech Republic, Slovenia, Belgium, Netherlands, and Poland were part of it.

The funny thing is; Though it was an Empire, it did have legislatures and councils that did make key decisions.

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted March 14, 2007 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
The Byzantine Empire (native Greek name: Βασιλεία τῶν Ῥωμαίων - Basileia tōn Rhōmaiōn) is the term conventionally used since the 19th century to describe the Greek-speaking Roman Empire of the Middle Ages, centered around its capital of Constantinople. In certain specific contexts, usually referring to the time before the fall of the Western Roman Empire, it is also often referred to as the Eastern Roman Empire. During much of its history it was known to many of its Western contemporaries as the Empire of the Greeks because of the dominance of Greek language and culture [1] To its inhabitants, the Empire was simply the Roman Empire and its emperors continued the unbroken succession of Roman emperors. In the Islamic world it was known primarily as روم‎ (Rūm).

There is no consensus on the exact moment when the Eastern Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire. A few place it during the reign of Emperor Diocletian (284–305), whose administrative reforms divided the empire into a pars Orientis (eastern half) and a pars Occidentis (western half). Some consider Constantine I the first Byzantine emperor. Others make the change during the reign of Theodosius I (379–395) and Christianity's official supplanting of the pagan Roman religion, or, following his death in 395, with the permanent division of the empire into western and eastern halves. Others place it yet later in 476, when Romulus Augustus, the last western Emperor, was forced to abdicate by his generalissimo Odoacer, thus leaving sole imperial authority with the emperor in the Greek East. Others point to the reorganisation of the empire in the time of Heraclius (ca. 620) when Latin titles and usages were officially replaced with Greek versions.[2] In any case, the changeover was gradual and by 330, when Constantine inaugurated his new capital, the process of Hellenization and increasing Christianization was already under way.

The Empire continued until its final destruction by the Ottoman Turks at the fall of Constantinople in 1453.



for more with links see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire


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naiad
Knowflake

Posts: 1645
From:
Registered: Sep 2006

posted March 14, 2007 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for naiad     Edit/Delete Message
that's a lot of interesting info Fayte.

thanks....

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fayte.m
Knowflake

Posts: 9809
From: Still out looking for Schrödinger's cat. fayte1954@hotmail.com
Registered: Mar 2005

posted March 14, 2007 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fayte.m     Edit/Delete Message
naiad
You are most welcome!
One of my favorites is:
History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Six Volumes.

It can also be found at: http://www.gutenberg.org/browse/authors/g#a375

Gibbon, Edward, 1737-1794 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Gibbon

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Dulce Luna
Knowflake

Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006

posted March 14, 2007 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
You know, even as a Catholic, I don't believe in ex-communication. I think only God has that kind of power...not any human being.

Yes, the Holy Roman Empire was VERY different from the original Roman Empire. The difference was between a Republic and a Theocracy. Unfortunately its downfall came when the German Princes/subjects of the Holy Roman Empire decided to follow different intepretations of Christianity (mainly Lutheranism) and thus pulling away from the central power of the Empire (Catholicism).

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