posted April 19, 2007 06:57 AM         

quote:

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DON IMUS: They're (the Palestinians) eating dirt and that fat pig wife of his is living in Paris.
COLLEAGUE: They're all brainwashed, though. That's what it is. And they're stupid, to begin with, but they're brainwashed now. Stinking animals. They ought to drop the bomb right there, kill `em all right now…

IMUS: Well, the problem is we have (reporter) Andrea (Mitchell) there; we don't want anything to happen to her.

COLLEAGUE: Oh, she's got to get out. Andrea, get out and then drop the bomb and kill everybody…

COLLEAGUE: Look at this. Animals. Animals!

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Hey, I remember hearing this exact script as this was shortly after Arafat's death! Now I never really was a big fan of Arafat but I remember thinking "What a Jerk!", have they no respect for the dead; nevermind the whole "Palestinians are animals" statement. Yuck! But for some reason, I thought this came from Howard Stern's mouth.

I'm now wondering *after reading all the other things brought up by Lilygirl: What took them so long (NBC and CBS) to drop him???

Also

Lynx and Lialei: Beautifully said, both of you!

posted April 19, 2007 10:05 AM         

Scorpsagsag..First off you were telling me to not let it bother me and that it should be easy. And yes that is what I was angry about. I am not angry over the over all thing well not anymore now I am just disgusted and prolly will be for a very long time..Also I did not explain to you how it might affect my life bc for one I do not need a therapist and if I did decide to explain it I doubt that it would be to you I don't even know you not even from this board. Had another one asked me maybe HSC or somebody maybe I would because atleast I have had conversations with them..So the thing about you giving me advice I don't get it..

And yes I do not expect a white person to understand like a black person and I am not trying to get you to understand that but I see others on here trying to get blacks to understand and be understanding of Don Imus comments and realize that he was just being ignorant..Nope that does not sit with me..

This was bad yes it was and to me when it all boils down this is about African Americans making a change with in our own race its just time for us to stop calling each other these stupid ignorant names and so forth and time to stick together..There is a bigger picture here then alot of people see..

I am not against other people I am just for my people. And us African Americans should start seeing each other in a different way just from this situation..

posted April 19, 2007 01:00 PM         

quote:

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And yes I do not expect a white person to understand like a black person and I am not trying to get you to understand that but I see others on here trying to get blacks to understand and be understanding of Don Imus comments and realize that he was just being ignorant..Nope that does not sit with me.

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Yes, but I would like to understand because understanding eachother is the key to being able to live in harmony. I understand being stereotyped and I understand being bullied. I am human I can undersatnd the human condition.

I don't even understand why Imus said what he did so there is no way I would even begin to try to tell anyone to understand what he said. I was merely indicating that he was an idiot saying idiotic things.

quote:

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Scorpsagsag..First off you were telling me to not let it bother me and that it should be easy. And yes that is what I was angry about. I am not angry over the over all thing well not anymore now I am just disgusted and prolly will be for a very long time..

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So I read your anger correctly. Okay, I was thinking that I didn't.

quote:

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Also I did not explain to you how it might affect my life bc for one I do not need a therapist and if I did decide to explain it I doubt that it would be to you I don't even know you not even from this board. Had another one asked me maybe HSC or somebody maybe I would because atleast I have had conversations with them..So the thing about you giving me advice I don't get it..

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That was mainly a rhetorical question and I didn't expect a response..I would have been happy with one because it would help me to understand this issue better, but that's fine. Haha...I am no therapist, I can tell you.

As for not knowing me--I am just one human being relating to another. If you only want to talk to people that you know on this board, I will remember that for future discussions. I'm sorry. I have just been on this board for about 8 months now and have seen many of your posts and always thought you came across as friendly and kind hearted--so maybe I felt able to speak to you but I was wrong. Don't worry it won't happen again.

quote:

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This was bad yes it was and to me when it all boils down this is about African Americans making a change with in our own race its just time for us to stop calling each other these stupid ignorant names and so forth and time to stick together..There is a bigger picture here then alot of people see..

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Good luck on this, I hope it all works out.

posted April 19, 2007 05:49 PM         

Unfortunately I didn't save it. No need to since when I posted I got the ususal message saying thank you for posting etc.

posted April 19, 2007 11:20 PM         

I'm banning these people from my planet.

Henceforth, people will love the skin they're in. Every inch of flesh. No longer shall people relax or perm their hair. No longer shall we put ourselve under the knives to look like alien spawn. We shall all be the best people we can be and have sex with the lights on.

posted April 20, 2007 01:23 AM         

quote:

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So, your long-winded, one-trick defense of this point is erroneously directed at me.

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I was addressing the article, not you. I only used your screen name because, well, you posted the article didn't you? I am not in any way suggesting that either you or Johnny are racists. It just seems to me that like some other people you guys do not feel that Don Imus should have been canned for his statements, or at least, you are questioning whether or not he should have been ousted for his racist, cruel remarks about a group of young female basketball players. Even though he went beyond just that remark to comparing them to the "cute" little Tennessee female players.

What was the motive behind his remarks? It wasn't due to the fact that Tennessee was his team choice and they lost because Tenn. beat Rutgers by quite a few points. For that reason it could only have been nothing more than just mean spirited remarks. Nothing to justify it.

Regarding my "long winded, one track defense" I was addressing one of the questions that you posed in explaining your reason for posting this article. You asked if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton had the right to represent their race. Obviously I think they do.

No where in my post did I even suggest that the person that authored the article which you posted did not have a right to speak his/her mind. You are reading things into what I said that were not there. I don't agree with the author of the article but whoever it was certainly has the right to speak their mind. Just as I have the right to speak my mind and disagree with the author.

Incidently, that was quite a "long winded" reply that you addressed to me. Which is a good example of the point that I made in my post about the fact that we can all be hypocritical at times.

Lynx and artslovedawn, I liked your posts. You both made some very good points. Very well said.

Mama Mia, Loved your posts. You told it like it is. No way, unless we have walked a mile in the shoes of someone of another race can we totally understand how it feels to be on the receiving end of being treated unkindly and having cruel words thrown at us based on nothing more than that we are a different race.

Easy for young folks here to judge Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton too without knowing what those men endured growing up in a different time. Both of those men lived during a time when their race had to attend separate schools, had to have separate rest rooms in public places, couldn't hold down the jobs that white people had, etc. and they both fought to bring about civil rights for their race. It is not that they are "easily offended" or just being over-sensitive. It's that they plain don't like it and it ****** them off. As it should. They know that racism still thrives in America and that is why they speak out. They will probably continue to speak out until they breathe their last breath because the battle for equality has not been totally won. It is obvious it hasn't been won when national talk show hosts like Don Imus make those kinds of remarks for no justifiable reason to young black women who simply play basketball for the college they attend.

We are creating a mentally ill society that does not seem to think that people should be held accountable and pay the consequences for their words and acts. We are giving our children the wrong message. A good example of that is the shooting at VA. Tech on Monday. The student who brutally murdered 32 people that day made a video in-between his carnage in which he stated that what he did was the fault of..well, the whole world I guess. It was everyone else's fault that he killed all those people. Not his. The blood is on our hands, not his. We are all responsible for his actions, not him. He took his own life to make sure he didn't have to pay the consequences for his acts either.

Thank you, Lilygirl for posting that article. It clearly shows that this was not an isolated incident with Imus. It clearly shows that Imus is not just being "misunderstood." It clearly shows that he has a history of making racial remarks and that to me, denotes a mindset of hatred and intolerance.

In a society where many feel they are not to be held responsible for their words and deeds or pay any consequences for them, I am very happy to see him finally being called on his racism and get canned for it even though the morality of the issue was not the motive for his being fired. Regardless of the motives behind the firing of Imus, it sends a very good message to children and to others who think they are protected by the 1st amendment to the Constitution to verbally abuse other people and blatantly practice their racism on the airways that belong to the public.

Lia and naiad are right. Imus will probably make more money by writing a book or in some other way since people know his name more from this incident than his stupid show. I never heard of the jerk before this incident. I don't watch or listen to that trash. Jerry Springer mentality.

quote:

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Mirandee...I think I love you.

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posted April 20, 2007 08:47 AM         

Few people make me think (and feel) as much as you do.

posted April 20, 2007 09:44 AM         

Anyway, to anyone who is not going to misinterpret what I'm saying and thank you in advance ...

Yes, what Imus said was wrong, imo. Just like it's wrong when anyone else says it, imo.

My point is not that he should not have been fired.

My point is that he's been saying cr@p like this for so long and so many other people are doing the same ... and yet he gets fired now, after all the other equally insulting and horrible comments, and meanwhile people rush to defend others who do the exact same things. What kind of relative tolerance is that? "Hey, it's okay that he called Jews or Palestinians or Women all these other things but insulting Black Women Athletes, now, that's going too far!" or "Well, when Outkast has a song with the lyrics 'From the weave, to the fake eyez, to the fake nailz, down to the toez Hahaha! we luv deez hoez!' (We Luv Deez Hoez off Stankonia) then that's just different and it's art".

I am not saying anyone here is saying that. I'm saying that's what the corporate message is sounding like to a lot of people and understandably so.

I don't enjoy racism. I am a "minority" and have had my share of stupid comments, stares, etc. from many races, not just whites. Am I going to spend my life running around trying to get everyone who ever made a racist comment to me and/or about my race/ethnicity to shut up? No, I'm not. If someone else wants to then good luck with that. I don't ever want to give someone that much power over me again ... and that's my opinion as someone who has faced that kind of bull before and who has been angry and who has felt powerless.

Now, I can accept, though it's disgusting, that other people will judge you for your race ... judge you positively or negatively, it's the same and it's wrong. But I personally (as in, my beliefs, my opinions) do not believe it is within my authority to try to force someone to change their minds and believe what I believe, no matter how stupid/wrong/hateful or whatever I think their beliefs are. Part of the reason is that I do not appreciate other people trying to indoctrinate me into their beliefs, either. Yes, I believe racism is wrong. Other people may not. I can't control that, nor should I, imo. Just like X group of Christians might think it's wrong if I don't believe that abortion is wrong ... and not just wrong, sinful, murder and that killing people like me is justifiable if it will prevent innocent babies from dying.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to force you to change your belief system, even if I think your belief system is full of crap like racism, bigotry or what have you. Inspire, influence, suggest, set an example? Sure. Force? Nope, not for me, thanks.

And to me, that is tolerance. To learn to tolerate the ugly as well as the pretty. How hard is it to tolerate the pretty? Not very for most people. Yet everyone talks about tolerance like it's so great but then few actually will tolerate people they disagree with, people they don't like, people who do or say things they disagree with or don't like and so forth. And in doing so, we end up with a "politically correct" society where people still face alot of the same problems but no one wants to talk about them honestly so no one else gets offended. How is that supposed to change anything for the better?

Yes, people are racist. Firing a racist person for expressing his racism is not going to make everyone stop being racist. You want to stop "the media" from influencing your children/grandchildren, etc? Turn off the d@mn tv, radio and other media.

It's all about supply and demand. If enough people watch something, whether they think it's wrong or not, then that will eventually create a supply to meet that demand. Look at the porn industry. So many people get all righteous and moral and talk about how evil, wrong and nasty porn is.

quote:

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It is estimated that Americans now spend somewhere around $10 billion a year on adult entertainment, which is as much as they spend attending professional sporting events, buying music or going out to the movies.

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Making it harder to get porn didn't actually stop people from being "depraved" or "evil" or "wrong" or anything else. It just cost them more money.

But then, when you try to tell someone so concerned about the children to turn off all the media the child is exposed to and to turn them on to other things that do not have the same warped messages, the argument is always the same. "But I'll be depriving my child!" Yeah, I can see how you wouldn't want to deprive your child of violence, sex, racism, etc. because it would be so damaging. But then when child/young adult does or says something so "wrong" it's always, in whole or in part, tv/radio/internet's fault.

posted April 20, 2007 09:45 AM         

November 15, 2006
White Guilt Doesn't Help Blacks
By John Stossel

Complaints about racism dominate the media discussion of the disparity between black and white success in America. Comedian Chris Rock captures the prevailing sentiment between both races when he tells white audiences, "None of ya would change places with me and I'm rich! That's how good it is to be white!"

A white author, Tim Wise, gets applause from students on American campuses for talking about "white privilege." Wise's message is in huge demand -- he does 80 speaking engagements a year. When we taped an appearance at Skidmore College, students of all races praised him as "eloquent," "phenomenal," and "so on point."

But among some black intellectuals a new perspective has emerged, one that puts racism and "white privilege" low on the list of problems plaguing black Americans. Shelby Steele's latest book, "White Guilt", argues that whites do blacks no favors wringing their hands about white privilege.

"I grew up in segregation," Steele said during my interview with him. "So I really know what racism is. I went to segregated school. I bow to no one in my knowledge of racism, which is one of the reasons why I say white privilege is not a problem."

Steele claims, "the real problem is black irresponsibility," which has produced high illegitimacy and high-school dropout rates that limit black progress. "Racism is about 18th on a list of problems that black America faces," he says.

Steele says too many blacks and whites are stuck in the old conversation, as though it was 1950. And he thinks there are questionable motives for this on both sides: "If we can get a big discussion going about what white privilege is, we never have to look at what blacks themselves are doing. And black responsibility. How are we contributing to our own problems? How are we holding ourselves back? Why don't our children do better in school than they do?"

Whites' preoccupation with guilt and compensation such as affirmative action is actually a subtle form of racism, Steele says. "One of the things that is clear about white privilege, and so many of the arguments for diversity that pretend to be compensatory, is that they advantage whites. They make the argument that whites can solve [black people's] problems. ... The problem with that is ... you reinforce white supremacy all over again. And black dependency."

Steele says that when blacks make racism their central focus, they mire themselves in destructive victimization -- and sabotage their own chances for advancement.

"White privilege is a disingenuous idea," he says. In fact, now there is "minority privilege."

"If I'm a black high school student today, there are white American institutions, universities, hovering over me to offer me opportunities. Almost every institution has a diversity committee. Every country club now has a diversity committee. I've been asked to join so many clubs, I can't tell you. There is a hunger in this society to do right racially, to not be racist. ... And I feel rather privileged by it. I don't have to even look for opportunities, in many cases, they come right to me," he adds.

But there is still racism in America. At ABC News I've aired hidden-camera video that showed salesclerks spying on black customers, cab drivers passing blacks to pick up whites, landlords lying to blacks about vacancies, and employers favoring white-sounding names. So don't whites owe blacks compensation for that and for past injustices?

Steele answers, "You owe us a fair society. There's not much you can do beyond that. There isn't anything you can do to lift my life up. I have to do that."

"The fact is," he adds, "we got a raw deal in America. We got a much better deal now. But we can't access it unless we take ... responsibility for getting there ourselves."

He makes good points. White privilege exists, but it's not the whole story.

Copyright 2006 Creators Syndicate [URL=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/white_guilt_doesnt_help_blacks.html]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/white_guilt_doesnt_help_blacks.html[/UR L]

Now, before someone suggests that I'm posting this to somehow defend Imus, let me make it perfectly clear that is not what I am doing at all. The reason I'm posting this is because the ideas presented in this article are what underlie some of the views presented in this thread.

For example, how important a role a racist comment makes on your life as an individual. If I felt somehow weakened or disadvantaged by someone making a racist comment against me what good will that do? Should I have dropped out of school because hispanics are so "disadvantaged"? Should I have worked on a farm because that's what hispanics "do" in this country? Um, no. Someone thinks I'm "less than" for being hispanic then too bad for them and their own soul life, imo.

Yet how easy would it be to fall into the trap of "less than" because you always hear it? Give me money for school based on my race because, obviously, as a member of my race, I can't do it on my own. Give me special opportunities at work because, obviously, as a member of my race, I can't achieve those opportunities on my own. Lower the standards of education because, obviously, as a member of my race, I can't keep up with everyone else.

I realize that is not the intention but that is partly the message that is getting across. I realize that people are trying to help but there's a point where help becomes more of a hindrance. Instead of looking at race as a whole, what about looking at individuals and their individual situations, problems, capabilities, etc.?

But there are people who will call me a racist for even daring to think outside the "minority" box. I know, because it's happened. Like my neighbor when I was growing up ... on welfare, multiple kids from different fathers, getting child support from each different man, refusing to get a job even though her kids were in school and her English was fine, etc. When I questioned her about it, coming from a household where being on welfare was seen as a last and temporary resort, she she said I was "anti" my people. That I didn't understand what it was like for her when she first came to America. That this country owed her because of all the bull she had to endure as an immigrant. I didn't buy it as a kid and I don't buy it now. She and her kids lived a much more comfortable life than my family did and it was all because she played into the weaknesses and guilt of a country that wanted to help "people like her" without demanding that "people like her" try to help themselves first.

Am I saying all minorities are just lazy, self serving opportunists? NO, not at all. But I am saying that the way a lot of people are trying to "make life better" for minorities often serves in creating a mentality where you believe you are disempowered and disadvantaged and that the world/country owes you something. It doesn't owe you any more than it owes anyone else and what it "owes" us all is nothing.

The same goes with what our ancestors went through. You know, "my people" were tortured and enslaved, too. To hear a lot of "my people" talk, you'd think they themselves were personally tortured and enslaved. Our land was "stolen" from us, nevermind that wars were fought, same as they were in all white/European countries, and "my people" lost. Sorry, I'm not buying into that victim mentality, either. No "white" person I've met today has enslaved or tortured me or anyone else. No "white" person I've met today has ever stolen my land or someone else's land from them. And no "white" man owes me anything for something their great great grandpa possibly did to my great great grandma.

Sure, racist beliefs may have been handed down through the generations and that is unfortunate. But they have been handed down through all the races, not just through whites. And feeling like you have to help some "poor, underprivileged minority" is just as racist as saying that "hispanic people suck".

posted April 20, 2007 12:15 PM         

I liked your post and I understand what you are saying. I read most of the article that you posted but my time is limited during the day so will read the rest later this evening.

I appreciate your viewpoint but don't really agree that turning our heads to racism or injustice of any kind is the road to take. Nor do I agree with what Steele says about "white guilt." I personally have no "white guilt" as I was born and raised into a society that was not created by me but others before me.

Martin Luther King Jr. and other black americans were also born into that society which they did not create. So should I have not attended civil rights meetings in the 60's and should King have just accepted that racism is just the way it is and not brought the treatment of black americans into the eyes of the world and pointed it out? Would our looking the other way and just accepting the way things are have changed anything?

It seems to me that King's pointing out the way black americans were treated brought about many positive changes in our society and the lives of his children and those black americans that were born after the civil rights laws that he worked for were passed. Same can be said of the subsequent women's rights movement which King also inadvertently prompted in the 60's by his example.

Frankly, growing up in the 50's and 60's I did not even think about the system and the different treatment of blacks until Martin Luther King Jr. and his followers brought it into national attention. I was a teen at the time and King's words and his non-violent methods touched my conscience and I knew he was right. It was immoral to treat people that way because the color of their skin was different than ours. I felt no guilt then nor have I felt guilt since that time but I knew that the system was wrong and I was moved by King's words and the words of other black americans in the early 60's to work towards changing that system.

I grew up in the metro Detroit area. My parents relocated here when I was only 3 yrs. old. I remember traveling to Okla. with my mom to visit my grandma and relatives there when I was young. During stop overs at the train station in St. Louis, MO and in Okla. I noticed that the rest rooms had signs on them saying "Negro" and "White." Living in the metro Detroit area I had never seen that before. I asked my mom why the signs in front of other white people and she just told them that we kids lived in Detroit and I had not seen that before. She told me it was the way it was in other states. Not that racism didn't exist at all in the Detroit area, it was just different than these states.

My dad was from Arkansas which is where I was born but not raised. My dad was a man who had a lot of hate inside him. He hated both blacks and Jews. In fact, anyone who was not white. So I heard from him an awful lot of racist type sentiment growing up. Yet my sister and I both joined the civil rights movement of the 60's. Of course my dad didn't like that but many times I argued with him about these people - the Jews and blacks he hated- and told him they were human beings just like us. I could not comprehend how being a racial mixture himself of native american and white, and as my mom also was, that he could think as he did about other races.

It was not a matter of forcing my beliefs on others, it was not a matter of Martin Luther King Jr. forcing his beliefs on others either. It was a matter of pointing out the injustice in the treatment of other human beings as being wrong and immoral. It was a matter of saying the system of injustice being practiced against black americans and native americans in America was wrong and it needed to be changed so that all people, people of all races , could have equal rights and equal chances to advance themselves instead of being treated as inferior due to their race. No blacks in basketball, baseball or any sports in those days. That was also white territory. Only " Yes, sir boss," servant type roles for black actors as well. There were black singing artists but they did not earn the same money or have the same noteriety as white singers did.

I remember early on in the civil rights movement during catechism one evening I said to a priest that, "You can't force people to like you." He looked at me very sternly and said, " Who said they wanted you to like them? They just want to be treated equally and not mistreated due to the color of their skin." That also struck me. This priest subsequently performed my marriage rites and he lost it one night and punched Donald Lopsinger in the nose. Lopsinger, with a group of others, would attend all civil rights meetings in the Detroit metro area and attempt to break them up . Fr. Joe was afterwards publically apologetic about doing that but I told him I thought he was great and Lopsinger deserved it. But he felt bad for breaking the non-violent code of conduct of the civil rights movement.

So you see, it is not in turning our heads and just accepting injustice of any kind in the world or society because we don't want to be accused of attempting to force our beliefs on others that bring about change. It is in speaking out against the injustice and working to change it that change actually does come about. Our silence serves no purpose except to allow it to continue on as it is.

Change does not happen overnight and that is why the Jesse Jackson's and Al Sharpton's, and even the black comedians of today are still speaking out as they do. God bless them for the courage to do that. God bless the crusaders because without them there would never be any change for the better for all of mankind.

I am not a big fan of Chris Rock because he overuses the F word a bit in his act but, he is right in what he said about whites not wanting to change places with him even if he is rich and famous because he is black. It is the same with homosexuals who we also persecute in our american society today, no one would actually choose to trade places with someone knowing that persecution goes along with it no matter how rich or famous they may be.

People don't choose their race and they don't choose their sexuality. They are born that way. All they ask for is tolerance and to be treated equally as human beings. Justice is what they ask for. Neither blacks or homosexual americans are attempting to force their beliefs on others. They are attempting to live their lives in a better society that accepts them as they are. So they point out the injustices of the treatment and bring it to the national and world eye in an attempt to better things in society.

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. "

- Elie Wiesel

"Let no one be discouraged by the belief there is nothing one man or one woman can do against the enormous array of the world's ills, against misery and ignorance, injustice and violence. ... Few will have the greatness to bend history itself, but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of our generation."

- Robert F. Kennedy

"Peace is a never-ending process, the work of many decisions by many people in many countries. It is an attitude, a way of life, a way of solving problems and resolving conflicts. It cannot be forced on the smallest nation or enforced by the largest. It cannot ignore our differences or overlook our common interests. It requires us to work and live together."

- Oscar Arias Sanchez, in his 1987 Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech.

"A revolution which aims merely at changing official policies and institutions with a view to an improvement in material conditions has little chance of genuine success. Without a revolution of the spirit, the forces which produced the iniquities of the old order would continue to be operative, posing a constant threat to the process of reform and regeneration."

- Aung San Suu Kyi

posted April 20, 2007 12:17 PM         

Sorry but Imus' chart is not an excuse for his racism either.

After re-reading this one I decided to edit it to let you know that I was just being facetious, HSC. I think that you just posted the chart so that maybe those here more knowledgable in astrology than I can see what aspects might effect his communication in negative ways etc.

posted April 21, 2007 08:00 AM         

How long has murder been illegal in one way or another? How many people are still murdering others today in spite of the laws and the moral outrage?

We're living in a time of instant gratification ... take a pill, pass a law, fire someone, sue someone, etc. I'm not saying those things don't have their places. But I don't think they are going to get to the deeper issues. The only way to get to the deeper issues, imo, is to be open and honest, without fear of offending others when you speak your mind ... even if you do end up offending people anyway.

I'd rather know that someone is a racist and know what I'm up against from the start than to live in a world where everyone had to pretend they weren't racist but really were. Repression is not going to make racism go away and will only end up making things worse in the long run.

We (particularly corporations who are more concerned with profit than actual "morality") can shut everyone up who offends someone and pretend the problem doesn't exist. Or, we (as the people who feed the corporations their profits) can learn to listen to the ugly things other people have to say about individuals/races/cultures/religions etc. and try to understand what is behind their negativity ... in order to find a way to approach that negativity in a way they will understand and that will hopefully cause a change within that person ... and lead to a trickle effect of positivity for future generations. I'm not saying we should condone racism or turn a blind eye towards racism. Not at all. But admonishing people, giving them fear and punishments for their beliefs, is not going to cause a drastic shift. If it worked that way, racism wouldn't exist after the civil rights movement succeeded in passing laws protecting racial equality. I'm not saying the movement failed, please don't think that. I just think it was the first step, and certainly a very important step, of many towards reaching a world without racial superiority/inferiority complexes. The issue (racism) hasn't changed but pretending that the situations haven't changed either is not going to help us achieve a realistic view of racism today.

posted April 22, 2007 02:03 AM         

In the last election where affirmative action was on the ballot only one state, Arizona, did not vote down affirmative action. That is because in spite of the original intention of affirmative action which seemed like a good idea to help minorites in the work place and towards an education eventually became an unfair system and was, in effect, racism in reverse. Jobs applicants and college applicants were no longer selected on the basis of qualifications. Employers and colleges had to comply with the affirmative action laws by filling quotas of blacks, hispanics, and women. So yes, I agree, things like that only create more resentment which leads to more racism. That is not the fault of anyone except the government because they just can't seem to make laws that don't take away from some in order to give to others. The pendulum always swings from one extreme to the other never settling in the middle.

It's true that racism will only stop when the spirits or souls of humanity change. The change has to come from within the spirit of all of us. Hate and intolerance is the root of racism. It's also the root of all wars. However, since we can't change other people all we can do find ways to promote what is right, fair and just in society as a whole. This whole notion of "individual rights" is basically what has screwed up society so much. The common good is what should be addressed - what is good for society as a whole.

It is the conscience or the voice of God within all humankind that prompts our actions and our feelings. However, it is normally other human beings who God works through to ignite a spark in our conscience which is what Martin Luther King Jr. and his followers did in bringing to light for all the world to see the treatment of his people. It's what the leaders of the women's liberation movement also did, the leaders of the hispanic movement, and people who are opressed all over the world are continuing to do.

How many generations of maltreatment went on for blacks in America before one man, King, broke the silence and said this is immoral, this is wrong and the system needs to be changed? In doing that he prompted the conscience of society. He ignited that spark in the conscience of society.

It's not that the likes of Don Imus are being punished for their beliefs. Only he can change his system of beliefs according to his conscience and how often he listens to that voice within. It's a matter of voices all over America, following their beliefs according to their consciences speaking out about the immorality of his words and his treatment of those young women. Like I said, it was generations of racism and maltreatment before King and those who followed him spoke out, so that Imus got away with it many times in the past and was met with silence is no surprise. Especially with his racist comments against Palestinians. They don't have the numbers and the leaders behind them in America that black americans do. Hell, on the boards of GU I have been accused of being an america hater, a traitor and a terrorist sympathizer just because I pointed out that the Palestinian people are being horribly oppressed and mistreated by the Jewish government and for my ability to see both sides of that conflict. I was accused of this because I refuse to hate them and see them as the enemy the same as some other people do. I refuse to see them as less than human.

I also refuse to see the Islamic religion and all Islamic people as being terrorists as well. We have created the terrorists and we continue to create more. It's injustice and oppression that create these groups of terrorists. It is what created the IRA in Northern Ireland. Treat all people equally and fairly and there would be no need for a hate target.

All races are the same. There are many good people and there are some bad people as well. That has always been the case since the beginning of creation and always will be. There will always be people who hate and who need hate targets so there will always be wars. There will always be racism. There will always be intolerance.

Yet it's our job to point it out whenever it rears it's ugly head and attempt to do what little we can to change society and make the world a better place. If someone is going to pollute the airways and the world by spewing hatred and prejudice against any race, no matter who that person is or how often they have done it before without being held accountable for it then we should speak out and say it is wrong, it is immoral. To remain silent is in effect condoning it. To remain silent only allows it to continue on. In the 60's there was a saying that I think is very true, " If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

The reason there is so much porn in our society is because we remain silent and tolerate it. The reason there are so many murders and crime on our streets is because we remain silent and do nothing to stop it. The reason our society is the way it is today is due to the silence of the many and the attitude that most people have that as long as it does not directly effect me and my life why should I care? Who says that society has to tolerate racism or any other immorality? Who says that the likes of Don Imus have a right to promote their beliefs but others have no right to speak out against it due to their own beliefs?

Yes, when it comes to their people black leaders and black americans will speak out against it. And they should! If it were white basketball players being talked about like that by a black talk show host the only reason we might not have heard about it in the media is due to the silence of most white people who seem to think we have to tolerate everything that others say and do. White people don't have the past history of oppression that black americans have had so what effects one or two white people is no big deal as long as it is not us or our kids. We have never been oppressed as a whole race. If we had been we would speak out as a race instead of seeing ourselves as isolated individuals.

Silence in the face of any kind of injustice or evil is in itself immoral. If we believe that humankind is all one then what effects any one of us should effect us all. In fact, even if we may not be aware of it, it does effect us all. If we can speak out and tell people to stop polluting our environment we should be able to speak out and tell people to stop polluting our airways as well. No one called for the head of Don Imus on a platter. They just came out and called what he was doing racism. They named the evil for what it was.

posted April 22, 2007 10:07 AM         

quote:

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All each of us can do is speak out and keep doing it until hopefully, one day society gets the message.

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Maybe I'm wrong here, but isn't that why this thread was started in the first place...to point out a discrepancy in the balance in our
current society? Reverse-racism, if you will.

quote:

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Today Don Imus was fired for calling the Rutgers University basketball team "nappy headed hoes". Sure, that was inappropriate, but did the punishment fit the crime?

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All opinions should be considered, not just those deemed by some to be "acceptable" or any discussion similar to this in the future is just a complete waste of time.

Signed,
Persona non-grata in this thread for some reason I have no idea why.

posted April 24, 2007 03:09 AM         

quote:

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All opinions should be considered, not just those deemed by some to be "acceptable" or any discussion similar to this in the future is just a complete waste of time.

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I haven't seen anyone on this thread saying that anyone else's opinion is unacceptable. Just because another poster may come back with a differing opinion is not the same as saying yours or anyone else's opinion is unacceptable.

I take it that you are not referring to the people on this thread when you speak of racism in reverse, ScorpSagSag. I take it that you feel that blacks had no right to infringe on Don Imus saying anything he wanted to because some black comedians and rappers do the same thing. Well, those that do that are racists as well. If more white people spoke out about it I am sure those people would get canned too. White people don't speak out about it though and that is what I stated in my last post. However, just accepting that because some black americans do the same thing it is okay for white radio talk show hosts to do it too is only going to perpetuate the hate. It's NOT OKAY for any of them to spew their racism in the national media. It's not acceptable no matter who does it.

I think we all feel that way on this thread. It has been mentioned here on this thread by just about everyone that racism is wrong no matter which race it is directed at and no matter which race the person practicing it may be.

posted April 25, 2007 04:39 AM         

Speaking for myself, but I suspect other so-called white people, I don't want to stop so-called black comedians from poking fun at the white community. I THINK it's funny!

Am I really supposed to take "cracker-a**" seriously? Sorry, I don't and I, as well as many whites, have learned to get a good laugh at racial humor.

The problem arises when race becomes the main issues rather than it being just one person's lack of judgement--which is what happened with Imus. By bringing up Imus's race as the reason he said those things all of a sudden I'm involved in this conversation and I really don't want to be. If some people cannot understand that--really, I don't know how to make it more clear. Sorry, I have tried--only because I'm not going to be the one that stops talking it through even if it gets to be a tough discussion.