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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 02, 2007 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Lo, mine eye hath seen all this,
mine ear hath heard and understood it.
What ye know, the same do I know also:
I am not inferior unto you.
Surely I would speak to the Almighty,
and I desire to reason with God.
But ye are forgers of lies,
ye are all physicians of no value.
O that ye would altogether hold your peace!
and it should be your wisdom.
Hold your peace, let me alone, that I may speak,
and let come on me what will.

- Job 13:1-5,13

"[You cannot make a man good by telling him to be good.
You may as well say to a man 'be tall' or 'be intelligent'.]"

- Nietzsche

"Otherwise, you will merely be showing the sick man what he ought to do if he were well, instead of making him well. [You] are trying to show a poor man the art of "acting rich"; how can the thing be accomplished as long as his poverty is unaltered? You are tying to make clear to a starving man in what manner he is to act the part of one with a full stomach; the first requisite, however, is to relieve him of the hunger that grips his vitals."

- Seneca
"On the Value of Advice"


And Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said,
"Why must you think evil in your hearts?
And wonder if it is easier to say,
'Your sins are forgiven,'
or, 'Arise, and walk?'"

- Matthew 9:4,5

How often we see a man who is afflicted and say to him, "Arise, and walk," but we have not the power of Christ to heal him, nor even to forgive him his affliction.

We cannot make men in our image, but we can try to love them, regardless of how they appear to us. And this love is a medicine more powerful than any rod of correction. I do not say that we should welcome his sins as though they were virtues. This would be enabling (a word which many in our time do not understand, and are fond of using merely as an excuse to vent their scorn on the afflicted; to appear strong, when it is in fact a weakness they are trying to conceal). But we should not throw a man's sins in his face, or hold them closer to his nose, when he is already reeling from their stench, and unable to stand. What should we do? Neither speak harshly nor approvingly of his sins, but, rather, give them no audience and no reply. Instead, be attentive to his cries; for he cries over his vices (and ours), and he cries out for his virtues (and ours). Sympathize with his struggle (if we ourselves possess that virtue), and receive appreciatively of what is strongest in him, without seeking to increase the burden upon that which is weakest. For we all have strengths and weaknesses.

And, it may even be that we are not the best judges of what constitutes a strength or a weakness, particularly if it is rare in our nation or age; for those strengths which are rarest are not only the most needful, but, also, the least accustomed to receive their due. While some weaknesses are accepted, and even rewarded, in a particular society, others are condemned and hounded until the man can no longer show his face who is burdened with them. Likewise, some strengths which are truly great go unrecognized and unrewarded, even ostracized and persecuted, while others, of lesser worth, are accorded the highest praise and position imaginable. Let us suppose for an instant that the strengths which are greatest are not likely to be those which contribute productively to societies and insitutions which are themselves unproductive, or productive, for the most part, of corruption. Sometimes, those who are the most uncooperative with present conditions, give expression to a form of protest which is revolutionary in its effects.

While everyone is labouring to lay the tracks for a railroad, it may be that the man who wanders off ahead will notice the precipice toward which those tracks lead. And when he returns, and is feverish with the news of what he has seen, we rebuke him. "Come, you are more aggravated by your idleness than we are by our labors. Make yourself useful, will you, and set yourself to laying track." And when he cannot set himself to laying track, - for he has seen where they lead, and was never fit for such work to begin with (hence, his wanderlust), -we revenge ourselves by throwing stones whenever he complains of our inability to find a use for him, or his inability to find a use for himself within our doomed enterprise. Perhaps someone goes out to him, intent on "reforming" him, and tries to teach him how important and fulfilling it is to lay track. But he will not listen, and is abandoned to his outsider fate. "I cannot teach him," they must say. "He is lazy and stubborn, and would rather ask questions about our origin and destination, than participate in our present work. He talks endlessly of what he has seen during his travels, but it appears to have no relevence to the work we have at hand. He is surely lost, if not wicked."

blah blah blah

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Show of hands.


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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 02, 2007 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Heart-Shaped Cross, I will not judge anyOne, anymore, and I suggest you do the same...
Speak your truth, but do not seek approval,
you have only to prove the Truth, to yourSelf.

LOve and Reverence to ALL. ...

we lead, by example,

not by our bad habits!

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 02, 2007 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks, Lotus.

I'm sure of a few things, unsure of others.

I welcome discussion and debate to help me refine my own thoughts.

Many heads are better than one.

Sometimes.

Depends on the one.

I think it shows some humility,
and a willingness to test one's beliefs,
to seek the input of other minds.



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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 02, 2007 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
hehe, Stephen, it's all a test, trials and tribulations, and it is so hard, I understand where you are coming from.
I just hope as moderator, that you will do and set a good example, for you truly do have so much to share.

And all the despair we go through, only makes us stronger to overcome the obstacles!

I want to make this world a better place, and we are all a part of that equally!

Stephen, you are very special, LOve yourSelf, take care of your body temple, overcome weakness, yeh, I am having a glass of wine, LOL, not a good example, but the Truth.

everything in moderation, no gluttony, hehe

LOve to ALL. ...

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 02, 2007 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message

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adrienne
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Northampton, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted May 02, 2007 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adrienne     Edit/Delete Message
stephen,

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adrienne
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Northampton, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted May 02, 2007 08:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adrienne     Edit/Delete Message
"We cannot make men in our image, but we can try to love them, regardless of how they appear to us. And this love is a medicine more powerful than any rod of correction. I do not say that we should welcome his sins as though they were virtues. This would be enabling (a word which many in our time do not understand, and are fond of using merely as an excuse to vent their scorn on the afflicted; to appear strong, when it is in fact a weakness they are trying to conceal). But we should not throw a man's sins in his face, or hold them closer to his nose, when he is already reeling from their stench, and unable to stand. What should we do? Neither speak harshly nor approvingly of his sins, but, rather, give them no audience and no reply. Instead, be attentive to his cries; for he cries over his vices (and ours), and he cries out for his virtues (and ours). Sympathize with his struggle (if we ourselves possess that virtue), and receive appreciatively of what is strongest in him, without seeking to increase the burden upon that which is weakest. For we all have strengths and weaknesses."

EXACTLY.

You reminded me of my favorite John Lennon quote: "Love is the answer and you know that for sure. Love is a flower you got to let it grow".

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 02, 2007 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Adrienne, saying it like Sylvester Stallone, hehe, very beautiful words!

Stephen, She's right

all we need is LOve.. .. ..

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 02, 2007 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message

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MysticMelody
Moderator

Posts: 3521
From:
Registered: Dec 2005

posted May 02, 2007 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
You are the wisest and most brilliant man I have ever met, that I didn't "meet" in a song or a book. I doubt that will mean much to those who oppose you though.
Your honest journey is God's answer to my deepest and most painful "Why"s as I've searched for answers for troubled teens. My degrees might force those you speak about to allow me to enter places where I can help, but what I learn from you fills in the remaining blanks of my map, and gives me the power to shine my light where it is darkest.

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adrienne
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Northampton, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted May 02, 2007 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adrienne     Edit/Delete Message
"Your grind ain't my grind, dawg"
--Mos Def

Lotus:

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adrienne
Knowflake

Posts: 103
From: Northampton, MA, USA
Registered: Apr 2007

posted May 02, 2007 09:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for adrienne     Edit/Delete Message
That was very beautiful, Melody. You are pretty brilliant yourself!

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 02, 2007 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
Aw, I LOve all of YOu, we all need each other, sharing and caring and daring to LOve ALL. ...

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MysticMelody
Moderator

Posts: 3521
From:
Registered: Dec 2005

posted May 02, 2007 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you adrienne, I wish I could have said it better, but the general discord throws me off balance. And the growing moon makes it very emotional.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 02, 2007 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Thank you, Melody.

I'm counting on you to put my insights to good, practical use.

I'm convinced now that the conditions which produce a truly original thinker are directly opposed to those which produce a person capable of submitting to the demands of academia. I mean, it is not unheard of for both of these conditions to be present in a single individual, but it is exceedingly rare, and the greater the extent to which a person possesses the conditions for original thought, the less likely it is to find in him/her the conditions necessary for taking to the bit. Of a truth, I think, far more persons of genius are unpublished than published, and the greatest genius is far too busy having (and following the implications of) original insights to be in a position to meet the demands necessary to order those insights for public consumption. I need a personal secretary. Tell you what... After I make my first million, I'll totally hire you, if you are willing. Deal?

s

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MysticMelody
Moderator

Posts: 3521
From:
Registered: Dec 2005

posted May 02, 2007 11:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah, my parents waiver between moments of "seeing" me (a couple lovely greeting cards about my different and magical ways from my father), to banging their heads against the wall and wringing their hands while ranting to each other about what a failure I am and how worried they are that I will become a bag lady. Meanwhile, I am happy and peaceful and satisfied that I am on the right path. I know I was meant to go the places I have gone and experience the lives/people I have experienced. I hear my mother now repeat things that I had to scream to get her to hear when I was young... and I know how my life and my choices have touched her and her own life's work directly and indirectly... even if she doesn't know.

I am already your secretary for free. I keep almost all of your best writing in computer files.


Oh yeah...

Deal

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 03, 2007 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message

You are on the right path, and you are doing great.

Thank you for keeping my writings.
Maybe we can do something with them someday.

Maybe after Saturn Returns in Virgo,
I'll be ready to buckle down to the dirty work.

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 05, 2007 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
We cannot love unless we have accepted forgiveness, and the deeper our experience of forgiveness is, the greater is our love.
--Paul Tillich

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MysticMelody
Moderator

Posts: 3521
From:
Registered: Dec 2005

posted May 05, 2007 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message
I would be honored to assist you in sharing your insights with others. You are strong and magnificent and brilliant.

When youre down and troubled
And you need a helping hand
And nothing, whoa nothing is going right.
Close your eyes and think of me
And soon I will be there
To brighten up even your darkest nights.

You just call out my name,
And you know whereever I am
Ill come running, oh yeah baby
To see you again.
Winter, spring, summer, or fall,
All you have to do is call
And Ill be there, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Youve got a friend.

If the sky above you
Should turn dark and full of clouds
And that old north wind should begin to blow
Keep your head together and call my name out loud
And soon I will be knocking upon your door.
You just call out my name and you know where ever I am
Ill come running to see you again.
Winter, spring, summer or fall
All you got to do is call
And Ill be there, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, aint it good to know that youve got a friend?
People can be so cold.
Theyll hurt you and desert you.
Well theyll take your soul if you let them.
Oh yeah, but dont you let them.

You just call out my name and you know wherever I am
Ill come running to see you again.
Oh babe, dont you know that,
Winter spring summer or fall,
Hey now, all youve got to do is call.
Lord, Ill be there, yes I will.
Youve got a friend.
Youve got a friend.
Aint it good to know youve got a friend.
Aint it good to know youve got a friend.
Youve got a friend.


Don't forget to say your prayers today


------------------
"Did you ever get the chance to dance along the light of day?"

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 05, 2007 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
That quote is the best one i've seen in a while, lotus.

Thank You.

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lotusheartone
Knowflake

Posts: 238
From: MOther & Father GOd
Registered: Feb 2008

posted May 05, 2007 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lotusheartone     Edit/Delete Message
You're welcome, Heart-Shaped Cross!

Love is the law of God. You live that you may learn to love. You love that you may learn to live. No other lesson is required of man.
--Mikhail Naimy

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 7178
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 05, 2007 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Melody,

Thank you.

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