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Author Topic:   Native Americans and Vegetarianism
ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 04, 2008 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
By Rita Laws, Ph.D.

How well we know the stereotype of the rugged Plains Indian: killer of buffalo, dressed in quill-decorated buckskin, elaborately feathered eaddress, and leather moccasins, living in an animal skin teepee, master of the dog and horse, and stranger to vegetables. But this lifestyle, once limited almost exclusively to the Apaches, flourished no more than a couple hundred years. It is not representative of most Native Americans of today or yesterday. Indeed, the "buffalo-as-lifestyle" phenomenon is a direct result of European influence, as we shall see.

Among my own people, the Choctaw Indians of Mississippi and Oklahoma, vegetables are the traditional diet mainstay. A French manuscript of the eighteenth century describes the Choctaws' vegetarian leanings in shelter and food. The homes were constructed not of skins, but of wood, mud, bark and cane. The principal food, eaten daily from earthen pots, was a vegetarian stew containing corn, pumpkin and beans. The bread was made from corn and acorns. Other common favorites were roasted corn and corn porridge. (Meat in the form of small game was an infrequent repast.) The ancient Choctaws were, first and foremost, farmers. Even the clothing was plant based, artistically embroidered dresses for the women and cotton breeches for the men. Choctaws have never adorned their hair with feathers.

The rich lands of the Choctaws in present-day Mississippi were so greatly coveted by nineteenth century Americans that most of the tribe was forcibly removed to what is now called Oklahoma. Oklahoma was chosen both because it was largely uninhabited and because several explorations of the territory had deemed the land barren and useless for any purpose. The truth, however, was that Oklahoma was so fertile a land that it was an Indian breadbasket. That is, it was used by Indians on all sides as an agricultural resource. Although many Choctaws suffered and died during removal on the infamous "Trail of Tears", those that survived built anew and successfully in Oklahoma, their agricultural genius intact.

George Catlin, the famous nineteenth century Indian historian, described the Choctaw lands of southern Oklahoma in the 1840's this way: "...the ground was almost literally covered with vines, producing the greatest profusion of delicious grapes,...and hanging in such endless clusters... our progress was oftentimes completely arrested by hundreds of acres of small plum trees...every bush that was in sight was so loaded with the weight of its...fruit, that they were in many instances literally without leaves on their branches, and quite bent to the ground... and beds of wild currants, gooseberries, and (edible) prickly pear." (Many of the "wild" foods Anglo explorers encountered on their journeys were actually carefully cultivated by Indians.)

Many of the Choctaw foods cooked at celebrations even today are vegetarian. Corn is so important to us it is considered divine. Our corn legend says that is was a gift from Hashtali, the Great Spirit. Corn was given in gratitude because Choctaws had fed the daughter of the Great Spirit when she was hungry. (Hashtali is literally "Noon Day Sun". Choctaws believe the Great Spirit resides within the sun, for it is the sun that allows the corn to grow!)

Another Choctaw story describes the afterlife as a giant playground where all but murderers are allowed. What do Choctaws eat in "heaven"? Their sweetest treat, of course: melons, a never-ending supply.

More than one tribe has creation legends which describe people as vegetarian, living in a kind of Garden of Eden. A Cherokee legend describes humans, plants, and animals as having lived in the beginning in "equality and mutual helpfulness". The needs of all were met without killing one another. When man became aggressive and ate some of the animals, the animals invented diseases to keep human population in check. The plants remained friendly, however, and offered themselves not only as food to man, but also as medicine, to combat the new diseases.

More tribes were like the Choctaws than were different. Aztec, Mayan, and Zapotec children in olden times ate 100% vegetarian diets until at least the age of ten years old. The primary food was cereal, especially varieties of corn. Such a diet was believed to make the child strong and disease resistant. (The Spaniards were amazed to discover that these Indians had twice the life-span they did.) A totally vegetarian diet also insured that the children would retain a life-long love of grains, and thus, live a healthier life. Even today, the Indian healers of those tribes are likely to advise the sick to "return to the arms of Mother Corn" in order to get well. Such a return might include eating a lot of atole. (The easiest way to make atole is to simmer commercially produced masa harina corn flour with water. Then flavor it with chocolate or cinnamon, and sweeten to taste.) Atole is considered a sacred food.

It is ironic that Indians are strongly associated with hunting and fishing when, in fact, "nearly half of all the plant foods grown in the world today were first cultivated by the American Indians, and were unknown elsewhere until the discovery of the Americas." Can you imagine Italian food without tomato paste, Ireland without white potatoes, or Hungarian goulash without paprika? All these foods have Indian origins.

An incomplete list of other Indian foods given to the world includes bell peppers, red peppers, peanuts, cashews, sweet potatoes, avocados, passion fruit, zucchini, green beans, kidney beans, maple syrup, lima beans, cranberries, pecans, okra, chocolate, vanilla, sunflower seeds, pumpkin, cassava, walnuts, forty-seven varieties of berries, pineapple, and, of course, corn and popcorn.

Many history textbooks tell the story of Squanto, a Pawtuxent Indian who lived in the early 1600's. Squanto is famous for having saved the Pilgrims from starvation. He showed them how to gather wilderness foods and how to plant corn.

There have been thousands of Squantos since, even though their names are not so well-known. In fact modern day agriculture owes its heart and soul to Indian-taught methods of seed development, hybridization, planting, growing, irrigating, storing, utilizing and cooking. And the spirit of Squanto survives to this day. One example is a Peruvian government research station tucked away in a remote Amazon Indian village called Genaro Herrera. University trained botanists, agronomists and foresters work there, scientifically studying all the ways the local Indians grow and prepare food. They are also learning how to utilize forests without destroying them, and how to combat pests without chemicals.

The trend that moved some North American Indian tribes away from plant food-based diets can be traced to Coronado, a sixteenth century Spanish explorer. Prior to his time, hunting was a hobby among most Indians, not a vocation. The Apaches were one of the few tribes who relied heavily on animal killing for survival.

But all that changed as Coronado and his army traversed the West and Midwest from Mexico. Some of his horses got away and quickly multiplied on the grassy plains. Indians re-tamed this new denizen, and the Age of Buffalo began.

Horses replaced dogs as beasts of burden and offered excellent transportation. This was as important an innovation to the Plains Indians as the automobile would be to Anglos later on. Life on the Plains became much easier very quickly.

>From the east came another powerful influence: guns. The first American settlers brought their firearms with them. Because of the Indian "threat", they were soon immersed in weapons development and succeeded in making more accurate and powerful weapons. But they also supplied weapons to Indians who allied themselves with colonial causes. Because it was so much easier to kill an animal with a rifle than with a bow and arrow, guns spread quickly among the Indians. Between the horse and the rifle, buffalo killing was now much simpler.

The Apaches were joined by other tribes, such as the Sioux, Cheyenne, Arapahos, Comanches, and Kiowas. These tribes "lost the corn", gave up agriculture, and started living nomadic existences for the first time. It wasn't long before their food, clothing, and shelter were entirely dependent on one animal, the buffalo.

George Catlin lamented this fact as early as 1830. He predicted the extinction of the buffalo (which very nearly happened) and the danger of not being diversified. Catlin pointed out that, were the Plains Indians only killing a buffalo for their own use, the situation might not be so grave. But because the great beasts were being slaughtered for profit, they were destined to be wiped out.

It was the white man who profited. There was an insatiable Eastern market for buffalo tongue and buffalo robes. In 1832, Catlin described a wholesale buffalo slaughter carried out by six hundred Sioux on horseback. These men killed fourteen hundred animals, and then took only their tongues. These were traded to whites for a few gallons of whiskey. The whiskey, no doubt, helped to dull the Indian talent to make maximum use of an animal. Among the tribes who did not trade with whites, each animal was completely used, down to the hooves. No part went to waste. And buffalo were not killed in the winter, for the Indians lived on autumn dried meat during that time.

But now buffalo were killed in the winter most of all. It was in cold weather that their magnificent coats grew long and luxuriant. Catlin estimated that 200,000 buffalo were killed each year to make coats for people back East. The average hide netted the Indian hunter one pint of whiskey.

Had the Indians understood the concept of animal extinction, they may have ceased the slaughter. But to the Indians, the buffalo was a gift from the Great Spirit, a gift which would always keep coming. Decades after the disappearance of huge herds, Plains Indians still believed their return was imminent. They danced the Ghost Dance, designed to bring back the buffalo, and prayed for this miracle as late as 1890.

In spite of the ease and financial incentives of killing buffalo, there were tribes that did not abandon the old ways of the Plains. In addition to the farming tribes of the Southeast, tribes in the Midwest, Southwest, and Northwest stuck to agriculture. For example, the Osage, Pawnee, Arikaras, Mandans, Wichitas, and Caddoans remained in permanent farming settlements. Even surrounded by buffalo, they built their homes of timber and earth. And among some of the Indians of the Southwest, cotton, basketry, and pottery were preferred over animal-based substitutes like leather pouches.

Catlin was eerily accurate when he predicted dire consequences for the buffalo-dependent tribes. To this day, it is these Indians who have fared the worst from assimilation with other races. The Sioux of South Dakota, for one, have the worst poverty and one of the highest alcoholism rates in the country. Conversely, the tribes who depended little or not at all on animal exploitation for their survival, like the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, and Chickasaw, are thriving and growing, having assimilated without surrendering their culture.

In the past, and in more than a few tribes, meat-eating was a rare activity, certainly not a daily event. Since the introduction of European meat-eating customs, the introduction of the horse and the gun, and the proliferation of alcoholic beverages and white traders, a lot has changed. Relatively few Indians can claim to be vegetarians today.

But it was not always so. For most Native Americans of old, meat was not only not the food of choice, its consumption was not revered (as in modern times when Americans eat turkey on Thanksgiving as if it were a religious duty). There was nothing ceremonial about meat. It was a plant, tobacco, that was used most extensively during ceremonies and rites, and then only in moderation. Big celebrations such as Fall Festivals centered around the harvest, especially the gathering of the corn. The Choctaws are not the only ones who continue to dance the Corn Dance.

What would this country be like today if the ancient ways were still observed? I believe it is fair to say that the Indian respect for non-human life forms would have had a greater impact on American society. Corn, not turkey meat, might be the celebrated Thanksgiving Day dish. Fewer species would have become extinct, the environment would be healthier, and Indian and non-Indian Americans alike would be living longer and healthier lives. There might also be less sexism and racism, for many people believe that, as you treat your animals (the most defenseless), so you will treat your children, your women, and your minorities.

Without realizing it, the Indian warriors and hunters of ages past played right into the hands of the white men who coveted their lands and their buffalo. When the lands were taken from them, and the buffalo herds decimated, there was nothing to fall back on. But the Indians who chose the peaceful path and relied on diversity and the abundance of plants for their survival were able to save their lifestyles. Even after being moved to new lands they could hang on, re-plant, and go forward.

Now we, their descendants, must recapture the spirit of the ancient traditions for the benefit of all people. We must move away from the European influences that did away with a healthier style of living. We must again embrace our brothers and sisters, the animals, and "return to the corn" once and for all.

(Rita Laws is Choctaw and Cherokee. She lives and writes in Oklahoma. Her Choctaw name, Hina Hanta, means Bright Path of Peace, which is what she considers vegetariansim to be. She has been vegetarian for over 14 years.)
http://www.ivu.org/history/native_americans.html

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 11943
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted February 05, 2008 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
I thought this was an interesting read today: http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/characteristics.html

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 05, 2008 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Right then, AG, you asked for it.

Proteins are large molecules made from smaller units called amino acids. There are twenty amino acids commonly found in both plant and animal proteins. There are generally considered to be eight amino acids that the body cannot make itself which need to be obtained from the food we eat. These are isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan and valine. Infants additionally need food sources of histidine and possibly taurine. Proteins are necessary for maintaining tissues and for sustaining growth. They are also used to make hormones and other physiologically active substances.
Protein Requirements [1]

Experts are still not entirely sure how much protein we need and estimates have been revised often in recent years. The national and international organisations which advise on nutrient requirements suggest standards which are calculated to meet or exceed the requirements of practically everyone in the population. They take into account individual variation and so the levels have a wide inbuilt safety margin. The recommendations below are based on the complete digestibility of milk or egg protein. Since protein from plant sources may be slightly less digestible, the UK's Department of Health recommends that vegetarians and vegans multiply the above figures by a factor of 1.1.

The UK Reference Nutrient Intakes (RNI*) for protein are as follows:

Type of person Amounts Required (g/day)
Infants/Children
0-12 months 12.5-14.9
1-3 yrs 14.50
4-10 yrs 19.7-28.3
Boys
11-14 yrs 42.1
15-18 yrs 55.2
Girls
11-14 yrs 41.2
15-18yrs 45
Men
19-50 yrs 55.5
50+ yrs 53.3
Women
19-50 yrs 45
50 + yrs 46.5
During pregnancy extra 6g/day
Breast feeding 0-6mths extra 11g/day
Breast feeding 6+ mths extra 8g/day

* The RNI is a daily amount that is enough or more than enough for 97% of people. The RNI is similar to the Recommended Daily Amount used previously in the UK.

The US Recommended Dietary Allowances introduced in 1989 are similar to the UK values.
Vegan Sources of Protein

The foods which commonly supply the most protein in a vegan diet are pulses (peas, beans, lentils, soya products), grains (wheat, oats, rice, barley, buckwheat, millet, pasta, bread), nuts (brazils, hazels, almonds, cashews) and seeds (sunflower, pumpkin, sesame).
Examples of amounts of foods providing 10g of protein

Type of food Quantity providing 10g protein (g)
Soya flour 24
Peanuts 39
Pumpkin seeds 41
Almonds 47
Brazil Nuts 50
Sunflower seeds 51
Sesame seeds 55
Hazel Nuts 71
Wholemeal bread 95
Whole lentils dried & boiled 114
Chickpeas dried & boiled 119
Kidney beans dried & boiled 119
Wholemeal spaghetti boiled 213
Brown rice boiled 385
Are Plant Proteins Second Class Citizens?

No, certainly not! Nutritionists once believed that plant proteins were of a poorer quality than animal proteins. And even now plant proteins are sometimes called 'second class' proteins whilst animal proteins are elevated to the 'first class' department. This belief centred on early research on the poor laboratory rat which showed that giving extra amino acids of weanling rats reared on a plant-protein diet improved their growth. The same was assumed to be true for humans. However, the parameters of the experiments were set in such a way that differences in the quality of plant and animal proteins were exaggerated. Also, rats and humans have different nutritional requirements, since weanling rats grow at a much faster rate, relatively, than human infants and therefore need more protein. A comparison of rat and human milk makes the difference quite clear: protein comprises only 7% of the calorie content of human milk, while rat milk contains 20% protein. If weanling rats were fed only human milk, they would not thrive. These tests over-estimated the value of some animal proteins while under-estimating the value of some vegetable proteins and The World Health Organisation has now abandoned this inadequate method of assessing the value of proteins to the human body.
Protein Combining - Is It Necessary?

No, it really isn't necessary! Research on laboratory rats also led to the misleading theory of protein combining. [2] Protein combining has unfortunately gained momentum over the years. It was based on the idea that complementary protein foods with different limiting amino acids, such as beans and grains, should be eaten at each meal in order to enhance the availability of amino acids.

Proteins in foods have a distinctive pattern, being higher in some amino acids and lower in others. For many years the quality of a protein reflected its amino acid pattern and was measured against the protein in a hen's egg which counted as 100%. By this method, in each protein the amino acid furthest below the standard reference is known as the limiting amino acid. This is not necessarily the one present in the lowest absolute amount but the one present in the lowest proportion compared to protein in a hen's egg! In most grains and seeds, the limiting amino acid is lysine, while in most pulses it is methionine. Tryptophan is the limiting amino acid in corn (maize), and in beef it is methionine. Although each food has a limiting amino acid, most foods have all amino acids in adequate amounts for human health.

Even vegetarians are sometimes advised to combine vegetable proteins with dairy foods. This advice is now very old fashioned. Protein combining may reduce the amount of protein required to keep the body in positive protein balance but several human studies have indicated that this is neither necessary nor even always the case. Diets based solely on plant foods easily supply the recommended amounts of all the indispensable amino acids, and protein combining at each meal is unnecessary. Soya protein is actually equivalent in biological value to animal protein.
Protein - Too Much of a Good Thing?

Studies show that vegan diets provide the ideal amounts of protein recommended by the World Health Organisation and by the UK's Department of Health. On the other hand, many omnivores eat more protein than guidelines recommend and this may have disadvantages for their health. Excessive protein consumption may be associated with health risks. Kidney function can be compromised by too much protein in older people and in patients with kidney disease; also, a high protein intake may adversely affect calcium balance and contribute to mineral loss from bone. The Office of Population Censuses and Surveys 1990 survey of British adults [3] showed that average protein intakes are 84g/day for men and 64g/day for women which are higher than recommended,

Different types of dietary protein may have differing effects on cholesterol and fats in the bloodstream. Greater hormonal responses resulted in a meal derived from casein (milk) than from soya beans. This suggests that milk protein leads to higher levels of cholesterol and fats in the blood. These, in turn, are risk factors for coronary heart disease.

A survey of 620 women in Singapore revealed that, among pre-menopausal women, those who regularly ate soya protein and soya products in general had about half the normal risk of developing breast cancer. In contrast, the consumption of red meat and animal protein was linked with an increased risk of breast cancer in pre-menopausal women.

Diets rich in meat protein lead to more uric acid in the urine, and a general increase in urine acidity. because of the acidity, the uric acid does not easily dissolve and can form into kidney stones.
Is there Enough Protein for Growing Children?

Children's over-riding nutritional need is for energy rather than protein per se. As long as children's energy needs are being met they will thrive on a diet in which protein is available from a mixture of plant foods. Infants and children reared on a varied vegan diet obtain adequate protein and energy, and are healthy and grow normally. Although they tend to be of lighter build than omnivore children they are within the normal ranges for height and weight. Regular consumption of suitably-prepared high-energy foods, such as grains, pulses and nuts, with smaller amounts of bulky, less energy-dense fruits and vegetables, will ensure a satisfactory intake of protein and energy. There have been only two recent reports of protein and/or Calorie malnutrition in infants reared by vegan parents on a vegan diet, and these were due to over-dilution or inadequate variety of weaning foods. Other published cases of protein and energy deficiency in infants given alternative diets involved restrictive macrobiotic or fruitarian regimes, or dietary limitations imposed by non-vegan parents for perceived health reasons.
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/protein.php

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 05, 2008 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Decades of experience, culminating in more than a million vegans today, have shown that appropriate vegan diets support good health at all stages of life and reduce the risk of heart disease. This has been confirmed by independent scientific studies.

The Vegan Society recommends a highly varied diet including both cooked and raw foods as the proven basis for vegan health, particularly for infants. Further information can be obtained from Plant Based Nutrition and Health by Stephen Walsh. This and other books can be obtained from the Vegan Society, as can Liz Cook's useful and attractive nutrition wall chart. The Vegan Society also provides lots of useful information which can be found throughout the site - please use the site search engine to find information and be sure to check the related links section on each page you visit.

Like any other form of diet, some vegan diets are more nutritionally complete than others. White bread, hydrogenated margarine and chips qualify as a vegan meal, but too many such meals will remove the usual benefit of a vegan diet in reducing risk of heart disease. Bananas are a healthful food in moderation, but anyone trying to live on bananas alone is headed for deficiency in about ten important nutrients.

The starting principle for health is to eat a wide variety of plant foods, including plenty of strongly coloured vegetables and fruits. Each food has different strengths, so the fewer foods you eat the less likely it is that all your needs will be met. Vegetables and fruits provide plenty of many vital vitamins and minerals along with a host of other beneficial plant chemicals. In general, the stronger the colour the better. Dark green leaves such as kale and spring greens leave white cabbage, iceberg lettuce and cucumber in the shade. In conjunction with HealthPlus, we've produced a multivitamin - Veg1 - which contains the essential nutrients required by vegans - taken as part of a healthy vegan diet, it will help to ensure vegans get adequate daily supplies of recommended nutrients.

Over-processed foods that have lost much of their nutrient content or have been transformed into unnatural and harmful forms should be used sparingly, if at all. Hydrogenating vegetable oils is one of the worst forms of processing as it produces unnatural trans-fats which have an even worse effect than ordinary saturated fat in raising cholesterol and increasing heart disease risk. Hydrogenated fat is found in most fast foods, hard margarines, doughnuts and biscuits, and in some vegan sausages and burgers. Prefer unprocessed foods and products stating that there is no hydrogenated fat. Refined grains should not be a major part of a vegan diet, but whole grains are associated with many health benefits. At the same time, especially for the very old or very young, it is important not to overtax the body with more fibre than it is comfortable with: some people will fare much better with brown rice rather than wheat as a main grain as it is lower in fibre and very rarely associated with food allergies or intolerances.

In conventional nutrition, animal products are seen as a key source of protein, iron, zinc and vitamin B12, while dairy products are seen as a key source of calcium. However, zinc and iron are found in useful amounts in many whole grains, nuts, seeds and legumes and vegans are no more likely to become anaemic than anyone else. Protein is found in adequate amounts in most plant foods: it is fairly low in fruit, potatoes and rice, but particularly high in legumes. With regard to calcium,100 grams of spring greens, kale, mustard greens or Chinese cabbage provide about the same amount of retained calcium as a cup of cow's milk. If you eat a lot of these vegetables, you can be confident about your bone health. If you totally avoid such vegetables, two cups of fortified soya milk (about 300 milligrams calcium per cup) would be adequate. It is probably best to use both, as each has other benefits as well as calcium: the greens provide folate, vitamin K and vitamin C and the fortified soya milk provides protein in a particularly healthful form, usually together with vitamins B12 and D. One large serving of calcium-rich dark green vegetables and a cup of fortified soya milk per day is an excellent foundation. Along with plenty of other vegetables and fruits and unrefined grains, you can be confident that such a diet is providing most nutrients in abundance, including intakes of vitamin C, vitamin K, folate, potassium and magnesium greatly exceeding most omnivorous diets.

A very few nutrients need more specific consideration to ensure optimal intakes. If you don't use fortified soya milk, you should include some other food fortified with B12 each day or take a supplement. B12 is not reliably available from modern unfortified plant foods in the amounts required for optimal health, so take no chances: use fortified foods or supplements and make sure you get at least 3 micrograms per day.
[Further information on b12].

Certain other nutrients are best provided by specific plant foods:

Iodine is provided by iodised salt in many countries, but for most people in Britain and Ireland the main source is dairy produce because iodine is routinely added to cattle feed and also used to treat udder infections in dairy cattle. Iodine can be readily obtained from kelp (about 15 grams spread over a year, or two kelp tablets a week, is about right). Low iodine intake can cause hypothyroidism leading to tiredness, skin problems, tingling sensations and elevated cholesterol.

Selenium intake can be conveniently assured by 100 grams of Brazil nuts per month. Omega-3 fatty acids can be boosted by a teaspoon of flaxseed oil (culinary linseed oil) per day. In the UK winter, the body cannot make vitamin D from sunlight and it may be beneficial for bone health to include about 5 micrograms of vitamin D2 in your daily diet. This can be obtained from about 10 grams of dried shitake mushrooms or from fortified foods or supplements. [Further information on Vitamin D].

Kelp, Brazil nuts and flaxseed oil are highly concentrated sources of nutrients, so taking more than double the suggested amount is not recommended: more is not better.

If following a raw food diet, it is vital to include a B12 supplement as no fortified foods will be consumed and B12 deficiency is common in raw food vegans not using supplements. A diet based on modern cultivated fruits (a pale shadow of the wild fruits eaten by our ape cousins) is not nutritionally adequate. At least 500 grams per day of dark green leafy vegetables or broccoli and at least 50 grams per day of nuts and seeds would need to be added to improve nutritional content.
[Further information on raw food vegan diets].
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 05, 2008 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Also, I read once that doctors found that vegetarian/ vegan Hindus who came to Britain were found to have no deficiency in vitamin b12. Only small amounts of b12 were needed, which they were acquiring from fresh organic produce (traces of insect eggs, etc provide sufficient amounts). However, when produce has been pre-washed, etc, this goodness is destroyed, not to mention the fact that it is less nutritious when grown in unhealthy soil.


Anyway, for the record I'm not a proper vegan; I'm a vegetarian but that's mainly because of convenience- my boys and their father aren't. I need someone vegan to cook for like I used to when I lived with a friend.


Vegan or not, I can't deny the FACTS.

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ListensToTrees
Knowflake

Posts: 3844
From: Infinity
Registered: Jul 2005

posted February 05, 2008 12:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ListensToTrees     Edit/Delete Message
Vegetarianism:

At the end of the day, we could all argue forever about what is "natural" and what isn't natural.

But the question is, do you want to feel you are the one in control of the situation, or is it too much responsibility?

To be the dream or the dream MAKER?.

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