Lindaland
  Gaia's Garden
  Permaculture (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Permaculture
Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted May 13, 2003 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Here's what I've been immersed in for the last two weeks. This is the closest I could come to a nutshell.

PERMACULTURE ETHICS

The Prime Directive of permaculture is to take responsibility for our own existence and that of our children. This distinguishes permaculture from other forms of agriculture.

Our work as permaculturists is to prevent energy from leaving before basic needs of the whole system are satisfied. This involves care of the earth, care of people, distribution of surplus and setting limits of consumption and population.

Cooperation, not competition is the very basis of future survival and of existing life systems.

The problem is the solution. We are the problem, we are the solution. In permaculture the focus is on turning constraints into resources.

PRINCIPALS OF PERMACULTURE

Observation- Use protracted and thoughtful observation of natural systems rather than protracted and thoughtless labor.

RELATIONSHIP

Every element supports many functions.
Choosing each element that we include in a system and placing it so that it performs as many functions as possible. (e.g. A pond provides cooling, supports ducks, fish and aquatic plants, catches rainfall, which can be used later for irrigation (and the clay dug from the pond can be used for building.)

Relative Location - Recognize connections. Locate elements relationally. Maximize functional relationships among components. Components placed in a system are viewed relatively, not in isolation.

Every function is supported by many elements - Planned redundancy will ensure that all important functions will be met despite the failure of one or more elements.

Diversity - As sustainable systems mature they become increasingly diverse (in space and time). The number of elements is not as important as the functional relationships between them.

Local focus - "Think globally. Act locally." Grow your own food. Cooperate with neighbors.

Stocking - Finding the balance of various elemnts so the one element doesn't overpower others over time. How much of an element needs to be produced in order to fulfill the need of whole system? More isn't always better. (e.g. Over stocking of fish results in smaller harvest.)

Stacking - (Two uses for this term)
1. Multiple functions for single element "stacking functions"
2. Vertical stocking. Multi-tiered garden design.

Succession of evolution - Plant with recognition that certain elements prepare the way for the system to support other elements in the future. (e.g. Preparing the soil with cover crops. Work in the demension of time.)

RESOURCES

Resource - any energy source which assists yield. The work of the permaculture designer is to maximize useful energy storage in any system, be it the house, livelihood, urban or rural land, or garden.

Pollution is an unused resource - If resources are added beyond the capacity of the system to productively use them, the system becomes disordered and goes into chaos. Tidiness is maintained disorder.

System yield - the sum total of surplus energy produced by, stored, conserved, reused or converted by the design. Energy is in surplus once the system itself has available all of it's needs for growth, reproduction, and maintenance.

Biological resources - Living things reproduce and build up their availability over time, assisted by their interaction with other compatible elements. Use and preserve biological intelligence. (e.g. integrated pest management.) Including wildlife and non-domesticated organism as pest managers like bees, worm, ducks, spiders, frogs, etc.

Use onsite resources - Determine what resources are available and entering the system on their own and maximize their use. (e.g. keeping water on site, maximizing use of sun)

One calorie in/ One calorie out - Do not export more biomass than carbon fixed by solar budget. (e.g. Grow soil, compost material, fuel, learn life cycle of imported elements, sustainablility.)

Energy recycling - Yields from system are designed to supply for onsite needs and/or needs of local region.

Law of return - What ever we take, we must return. Every object must provide for its replacement. Maintain cycles.

DESIGN

The yield of a system is theoretically unlimited - The only limit on the number of uses of a resource possible is the limit of information and imagination of designer.

Work within nature - Aiding the natural cycles results in higher yield and less work. A little support goes a long way.

Edge effect - Optimize Edge. Edges or ecotones are areas where two ecosystems come together to form a third which has more diversity and fertility than either of the other two. (e.g. edges of ponds, forests, meadows, currents etc.)

Make Least Change for Greatest Effect - The less change that is created the less embedded energy is used to create system.

Planting strategy - 1st natives, 2nd proven exotics, 3rd unproved exotics. Carefully on small scale with lots of observation.

Small scale intensive systems - Start small and create a system that is manageable and produces high yield. When you start small, your "mistakes" or "learning curve" are small.

Relinquishing power - The role of the successful design is to create a self-managed system.

Appropriate technology - What is appropriate in one context may not be so in another. Permaculture principals apply for cooking, lighting, transport and heating, sewage treatment, water and other energy needs.

IP: Logged

pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 2962
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: May 2002

posted May 13, 2003 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message
Good to see you back Harpy. I was wondering what happened to you and Alena. You both had been so quiet.

Pidaua

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted May 13, 2003 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Hey, thanks for the welcome, Pid.

I'm still in a bit of a culture shock but recovering.

No one has any questions about permaculture?

IP: Logged

pearly
Knowflake

Posts: 555
From: Neptune, Milky Way, Universe
Registered: Jun 2002

posted May 13, 2003 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pearly     Edit/Delete Message
Well....

Ok, it seems like a very deep undertaking! I like the idea of it... My initial thoughts are:

Where do you start?

Must you create a whole entire community this way from the start or can it be brought into established neighborhoods and communities?

I guess that can be somewhat of a start... Well, thanks for sharing all of this Harpyr.... glad you enjoyed yourself at camp!

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted May 14, 2003 02:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Great Question Pearly!

Yes, learning about permaculture is indeed a big undertaking but it's been wonderful because as I'm learning it I realize it's speaking to things that I've always known in my heart to be true but just never had the words for. It's like how I felt reading much of Linda's work, and Starhawk's too for that matter. And I just have to say that it was utterly incredible to learn first hand, everyday for two weeks from an author whose works had touched such a deep place in my soul for so long. But that's another conversation..

Anyways, anyone can start permaculturing anywhere any time. Even if it's just a small planting box outside one's window. The important thing is to just start.

Composting food waste (not meat, eggs or dairy, though eggshells are great.) is a good place to begin. I realize that this may be difficult for someone living the apartment life, such things must be taken into consideration of course. Not to say that people in apartments can't compost but it takes cooperation from neighbors and creative use of space.. But if you have a yard then by all means, get a bin out there, ideally with some worms that you can find at your local tackle shop to really kick things into gear. 'A rind is a terrible thing to waste. COMPOST.'
Sticking all that wonderful material in landfills is an atrocity really. We could be using it to heal the land.

"perm, perm, peeerrrm-a-cultuure.
re, re, reeee-store the land!"

If you have a garden already, GREAT! Problems with weeds? Sheet mulch it. That means putting down a layer of newspaper or cardboard, covering it with straw, wood chips or some other organic mulch to start building the soil up. Then, depending on what sort of plant you have (root depth) , make a little hole in the mulch, cut a 'X' in the cardboard, add a bit of compost and plant your vegetable, tree, flower or whatever. The sheet mulch smothers the "weeds" (that word was actually banned at our camp. There's no such thing as a weed. Just pioneer plants that show up to heal damaged land, or exposed soil. Nature HATES exposed soil), protects the soil from erosion and holds in moisure so you don't have to water as much.

The other thing nature hates is monoculture. Having a bunch of the same plants all in a row is an invitation to pests. Plant guilds is what it's all about in nature. Co-operative, beneficial relationships. Planting a diversity of crops- nitrogen fixers, accumulators and insectories.

Okay, I do want to add a disclaimer here. I am not a substitute for reading atleast one good book on permaculture before anyone goes out and starts redesigning their land. I would really like to get a disscussion going about permaculture but seeing as how I'm still a relative beginner (though I do have a certificate! ) I don't want to present these ideas as gospel by any means. If I had more time I could make sure that I'm covering the most important bases but seeing as how I'm strapped for time I fear I might leave important points out. My life is transitioning in major ways right now so I don't have as much time to spend here in Lindaland as I'd like.

I would recommend Bill Mollison's "Introduction to Permaculture" heartily.

Thanks for asking the first question Pearly! It's a really important one. Maybe the most important one


IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 20450
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted May 17, 2003 07:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

BugginOut6106
Knowflake

Posts: 144
From: PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted July 01, 2003 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BugginOut6106     Edit/Delete Message
Harpyr, Is this premaculture philosophy new. I mean like I guess from what i understand you attend a workshops for lack of better term? Could something like this work in Horticulture??

I live around golf courses and my b/f works at one. One day he went to work and the pond that they have there had a bunch of dead fish in it! Hellllllooo green grass is not just for the elite. Anyways they use a system "old school" chemical dumping b/c they have the $ to buy permits to dump nitrogen-rich fert. and fungicides etc.. all over God's creation.
IPM or Integrated Pest Management is widely underpracticed, is it similar to permaculture? How is it different? Glad to be back ~BUGGINOUT fo' real here! LOL

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted July 03, 2003 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Hi buggin,
Permaculture isn't terribly new. It's been around since the mid seventies. Horticulture (the cultivation of a garden) and IPM (encouraging pest control elements like insects, birds, plants that repel pests..correct me if I am misunderstanding this term you used.. ) are all components of the larger field of permaculture.

Permaculture encompasses ALOT of different things. Here's an introduction from Mollison's "Permaculture- a Designers Manual" that may clairify things better than I can with the limited time I have..

quote:
This book is about designing sustainable human settlements, and preserving and extending natural systems. It covers aspects of designing and maintaining a cultivated ecology in any climate: the principles of design; design methods; understanding patterns in nature; climatic factors; water; soils; earthworks; techniques and strategies in the different climatic types; aquaculture; and the social, legal, and economic design of human settlement.

It calls into question not only the current methods of agriculture but also the very need for a formal food agriculture if wastelands and the excessive lawn culture within towns and cities are devoted to food production and small livestock suited to local needs.

The world can no longer sustain the damage caused by modern agriculture, monocultural forestry, and thoughtless settlement design, and in the near future we will see the end of wasted energy, or the end of civilization as we know it, due to human caused pollution and climate changes.

Strategies for the necessary changes in social investment policy, politics itself, and towards regional or village self-reliance are now desperately needed, and examples of theses strategies are given. It is hoped that this manual will open the global debate that must never end, and so give a guide to the form of a future in which our children have at least a chance of a reasonable existence.


There are a few golf courses around the country that are adopting permaculture techniques and finding how wonderful it really is..no need for those stupid chemicals if we just use these big brains imaginatively and some thoughtful observation of natural systems..

IP: Logged

QueenofSheeba
Moderator

Posts: 979
From: California, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted July 05, 2003 01:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for QueenofSheeba     Edit/Delete Message
My mom is a little into permaculture... does it have anything to do with cob building?

------------------
Hello everybody! I used to be QueenofSheeba and then I was Apollo and now I am QueenofSheeba again (and I'm a guy in case you didn't know)!

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 20450
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted July 06, 2003 03:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted July 07, 2003 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Yes! Cob building..and straw bale building and just about any type of natural building material is one of the many facets of permaculture.

We built a cob bench at the earth activist training..it was super fun!

IP: Logged

QueenofSheeba
Moderator

Posts: 979
From: California, USA
Registered: Feb 2003

posted July 07, 2003 09:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for QueenofSheeba     Edit/Delete Message
Cob architecture is so nice and curvy; it makes me feel relaxed. Square buildings work and are functional, but at the same time they're 'tense'. I think curviness is easier on the eyes.

------------------
Hello everybody! I used to be QueenofSheeba and then I was Apollo and now I am QueenofSheeba again (and I'm a guy in case you didn't know)!

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 20450
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted July 08, 2003 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted July 09, 2003 01:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
I think round structures are easier on the human psyche in general. The uni-VERSE works in circular patterns everywhere we turn so it would make sense to pattern our dwellings on circles instead of right angles. I find round rooms to be really calming. They allow for an easier flow of energy. The other really cool thing about cob is that you can sculpt art right into the wall. It allows for a great deal of artistic freedom in design.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 20450
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted July 10, 2003 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

BugginOut6106
Knowflake

Posts: 144
From: PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted July 13, 2003 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BugginOut6106     Edit/Delete Message
Feng shui can attest to the attributes of round rooms or Houses. There's less chance for energy to become stagnant in a round room. No doubt!

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted August 01, 2003 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
just noticed that the traffic has picked up recently around here and wanted to bump this back up..
and people say that the leftists don't come up with solutions...welll.. i, for one, believe that permaculture has answers to just about all the worlds major problems. if only more people knew about it...
http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC28/Mollison.htm

IP: Logged

lovely libra
Knowflake

Posts: 132
From: garland texas usa
Registered: Mar 2004

posted April 08, 2004 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely libra     Edit/Delete Message
there is actually a great simple book called Gia's Garden a guide to home-scale permaculture by toby hemenway.( I thought the forum name came from this?) I took a class in oregon. It was an continuing ed. class from the local comunity college in eugene. Look into getting a corse guide from the comm. coll. in your area maybe they have one. This class had a 2 year waiting list but was well worth it. I will talk later when i have more time.I have a whole lot to say about this subject but am preping for a job interview now.

------------------
~Renee
~indecision may or may not be my problem

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 09, 2004 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
yeah.. I just finished reading that book last week! Admittedly it was on my mind when I suggested the name for this forum.

It was an awesome read and if I can find some time this weekend I am going to post some of the information from it about plant guilds. I'm kinda busy too, preparing for a trip next week to Texas to hang with some permaculture/witchy folks.

IP: Logged

lovely libra
Knowflake

Posts: 132
From: garland texas usa
Registered: Mar 2004

posted April 09, 2004 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely libra     Edit/Delete Message
Hey harpyr,
I am in texas and never knew witchy permaculture people lived here where are they? Is this a private friend kinda thing or a group of some sort. Asking as a fellow witchy permaculture kinda girl lost in christian republican i want grass in my yard go away with your weird tree hugging nonsense world.

------------------
~Renee
~indecision may or may not be my problem

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 10, 2004 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
hey lovely libra, it's this-
http://dandeliongathering.org/
It's basically a gathering of Reclaiming witches from all over the country to just reconnect, do ritual, permaculure and planning for the future, and have fun together.

Have you ever read anything by Starhawk? She was one of the founders of Reclaiming tradition witchcraft, the path I walk. It's based off faery tradition but incorporates political activism as part of our spirituality. Basically, since the earth is viewed as the living body of the Goddess and therefore sacred, it's necessary to take action in defense of Her when she is assaulted.

The Principals of Unity is a good summation of what Reclaiming is about.

Tejas Web is the Texas cell.

IP: Logged

lovely libra
Knowflake

Posts: 132
From: garland texas usa
Registered: Mar 2004

posted April 11, 2004 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely libra     Edit/Delete Message
Oh Thank you harpyr!!! Soo much money. I am living off my child support now and have no extra cash. Next time yes. The texas whiches are in Austin I am in dallas. But it only makes sense that somewhere in this big city are some people like me. Thank you for taking the time to share your info. I have hope.

------------------
~Renee
~indecision may or may not be my problem

IP: Logged

lovely libra
Knowflake

Posts: 132
From: garland texas usa
Registered: Mar 2004

posted April 15, 2004 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely libra     Edit/Delete Message
Oh hey Harpyr, I hate to keep buggin ya but do you know any good books about guilds? In my class there was something about roses loving garlic? My ex kept the folder with all the cool lists of info.

------------------
~Renee
~indecision may or may not be my problem

IP: Logged

Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 1828
From: sleepy Rocky Mountain village
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 23, 2004 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
hi lovely,

I think I vaguely remember somthing about roses and garlic working well.. I think perhaps the pests that like to feed on roses can't stand garlic.. or maybe it had something to do with nitrogen fixing.

Do you have a copy of Toby Hemengway's book? There's some good stuff about guilds in there but i didn't see anything about roses. I think the trouble with guilds is that there just aren't many books about it yet. It's still a relatively new area.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 20450
From: Columbus, GA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted December 06, 2004 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
*bump*

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2005

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a