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Author Topic:   cloth diapers
talaith
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Posts: 271
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Registered: Feb 2004

posted April 10, 2004 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
cloth diapers are so wonderful! we keep the landfills free of tons of waste this way, and my baby's bottom is free of harmful chemicals and wearable trash as well.

soft cotton is the only thing that should ever touch my babe's tush. tossing a load of diapers in the washer is lots easier than running to the store and spending too much $$$ every time he needs fresh nappies.

i love them, there are so many varieties available. and we don't use pins....there are styles far superior to the disposables.

i hope to make my own soon, with organic cotton and hemp.

for now, i like a canadian brand called snug-to-fit. they fit from birth to 35 pounds, and they really fit well, better even than diposables. my babe never has diaper rash.

i highly recommend them....especially as many of the chemicals in disposables cause infertility and other illness. also, the chemicals in tampons that caused toxic shock syndrome were banned -- from use in feminine hygeine products, but not disposable diapers! so they are still used in disposable diapers. ewwww!

here's to cloth...

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Harpyr
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From: land of the midnight sun
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posted April 10, 2004 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
hi talaith,
Hurrah to you for using cloth!

Do you wash them yourself or have a service?
I really wanted to do cloth for all the reasons you said but we lived in a tiny apt with no washer and dryer and the service was more expensive than disposables. More than we could afford. I'll be so happy to be done with diapers. My two and a half year old is still in them and hates the toilet. Wont go near it. I think we are going to go to training underwear so he knows how uncomfortable it is to have wet pants. My friend used cloth diapers and her son is much closer to being potty trained ( I hate that word 'trained'.. makes it sound like i'm talking about a dog)
and i think it's cause the kids in cloth diapers can feel the moisture more easily.

anyhow. ..If i have another kid, I plan on being in my own home with a washer/dryer and doing the clother diaper thing.

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talaith
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Posts: 271
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posted April 12, 2004 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
i couldn't afford a service either, even if one were available.

but that's ok, because i'm much more aware of all the options in cloth diapering and there are so many! and there is so much creativity here. the following forum on a very good earthmama site is enlightening:

Cloth Diapering...The Addiction!

we too lived in a tiny apartment when my babe arrived, but we were fortunate to have a tiny mini-washer/dryer unit to go with it.

i use a dry-pail method, which includes a large covered container lined with a water-proof drawstring bag. toss in wet diaper as is. rinse poopy diaper and toss as well. i also use disposable liners (biodegradable and earth friendly) in the diaper and these make poopy diapers non-messy. Bac-out is a natural enzyme solution that is great for cleaning and washing that i squirt into the pail to contain odor.

i wash a load every other day, one cold wash and one hot, with detergent and borax. then dry for 100 minutes, as heat sanitizes. leave in laundry basket for next use.

when we rented a house with no appliances i was prepared to trek to the laundromat with my bag-o-diapers and my babe riding on my back -- easy enough, i thought. but we were fortunate enough to have some extra consulting work that allowed us to purchase a no-frills washer and dryer.

my baby boy is not enamoured of the potty either. i even bought him his own little 'royal potty' that plays a tune every time he uses it, but he just turns his nose up at it! ah well, i'll just let him decide when we wants to move on to the potty. he only gets to be a baby for a short while. he despises wearing diapers though, so that may be his motivation real soon.

we'll use training pants too. the following site has so much information about all kinds of cloth diapering, as well as very good training pants. i like the bummis, as their diaper covers are far superior to all others i have found. ebay has lots of good cloth diaper deals as well.

Born To Love

cloth training pants

happy bottoms to all babies!

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crystelle
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Posts: 425
From: :)
Registered: Aug 2002

posted April 15, 2004 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crystelle     Edit/Delete Message
talaith,

i am going to be having a baby boy in august. i am looking forward to trying out the cloth diaper situation. honestly, you are the very first person who has spoken positively about them!

I am still going to try them, regaurdless, and see for myself.

A few years ago, I made some diapers for a friend of mine for her 1 year old to wear. I still have a large amount of organic cotton left, so I am going to make some diapers out of that. They are really simple to make.

If I may venture off of that topic, I am curious about circumcision. Did you choose to take that route with your baby boy? My partner and I have yet to come to a conclusion on that one. Do you have any thoughts you would be willing to share?

Thanks,
Crystelle

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talaith
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Posts: 271
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posted April 15, 2004 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
dear Crystelle ~

pretty name. i love that you make your own from organic cotton....what pattern do you use -- did you design it?

my babe is not circumcised. i would never! i do have some very good information on this that i will share with you very soon.

congratulations on your pregnancy. it's such a wonderful gift, getting to know your babe while she's living inside you....very intimate! enjoy!

talaith

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crystelle
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Posts: 425
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posted April 17, 2004 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crystelle     Edit/Delete Message
hi again

I would love any information that you have.

I suppose you have not vaccinated your child, and will not?

By the way, how old is he and what does his chart look like?

It is such an interesting experience to look at where the planets will be around the due date and imagine the combinations.

my baby is due right on the cusp on leo and virgo.

the diapers i made for my friend where just a simple design i free-handed. Very soft.

How was your labor, did you give birth at home or out?

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talaith
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posted April 17, 2004 11:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
hi crystelle ~

i have just a second, so i'll be back....

but wondering....do you plan to vaccinate?

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talaith
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posted April 17, 2004 11:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
hi again!

i asked about your design because i'd like to make my own but i don't know how to sew. so i've searched for some patterns, but haven't found any i like. you must be very good! good for you! making your own diaper covers would be lovely too. some people who like the wool covers, and many swear by them, knit their own. an exquisite heirloom. (i don't use wool).

but, yes, we essentially are the whole enchilada ~ * ~

*cloth-diapering
*extended breastfeeding
*co-sleeping
*sling-wearing
*bottle-free
*pacifier-free
*crib-free
*play-pen-free
*vaccine-free
*circumcision-free

and we believe that people aren't for hitting, so we don't use corporal violence for discipline.

we use mostly homeopathic and herbal treatments, aromatherapy and bach flower essences. we try to use naturopathic and anthroposophic doctors, if the need arises.

vegetarian, but he will get to decide for himself very soon.

we had a water birth at home planned, and i labored in the birth tub for about a day, before having to succumb to a hospital birth due to my babe's position.

that was 20 months ago -- today! my son has leo sun, sagittarian moon and cancer ascendant. it is cool to calculate their potential charts.

as for the whole enchilada, well.....i do use a stroller at times as i'm not always strong enough to carry my boy in a sling (i had pneumonia last year and the effects lasted a long time). i did carry him in the sling almost exclusively for most of his first year...most important especially when newborn. he almost never was out of my arms. i can't express enough the importance and convenience of wearing your baby.

is this your first baby? i'd love to discuss anything you'd like....i have the stuff about circumcision, but i'd like to be more succinct with it, so i'll save that for later....you have a few months, right?

love to you and yours, talaith

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crystelle
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posted April 20, 2004 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crystelle     Edit/Delete Message
talaith,
thank you for all of your thoughts. i dont know where to start in responce. i am what i consider handy when it comes to sewing and things. i am not all that great. I just cut out a basic square shape and lined them with some kind of filling. although, i could probably practice and make them so, they were really only worthy of a kind deed to a friend kind of thing. I probably would never sell them or anything. But the bottom line is, they were simple to make.

my due date is estimated around August 19th. My partner and I strongly feel that we will have a leo.

I am seeing a group of midwives. One of which just delivered a friend of mine's baby boy just this saturday without any medication. She said it was a good experience, although painful, of course.

what is it like having a leo?

I have mellowed out over time when it comes to extreme measures to preserve natural means. I am a vegaterian and I also plan to do as much natural as I can do sanely. I have a baby sling and i cant wait to use it. I like to keep up with mostly natural but I find for balance, just a small toe in the rest of the world helps me to operate best.

Most people in the "regular" world would probably say i am somewhat extreme, but I am not closed to anything. I am undecided on some things that I will do when it comes to my child. I have a lot on my plate right now. I am just taking it all in and trusting the universe to guide me appropriately.

so what is it like with your leo boy?
what signs are you?

Me: capricorn sun
pisces rising
virgo moon

Partner: gemini sun
Scorpio rising
Libra moon

a leo sounds fun. i would love to have one

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talaith
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posted April 20, 2004 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
hi crystelle...

i'm really not all that natural either.

our diet, although vegetarian, leaves a lot to be desired. we rarely eat organic, or even whole foods. we do eat a lot of processed foods and junk food. i do hope to change that soon...but gradually. a toe in, for sure.

we also don't recycle....because my husband is virtually violently against it, and i don't have the wherewithal to take a stand on this issue. after i get my household a little more organized, we might be able to recycle covertly.


following your heart is the best way. and tuning in to your babe. she will guide you too. mine did natally in dreams and visions.

i am aries sun and moon and capricorn rising.

blessings.

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talaith
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posted April 21, 2004 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
some very fine books:

the continuum concept by jean liedloff

a great website on this concept with a lot of information as well ~

The Continuum Concept Network

the basics of 'the continuum concept'

quote:
According to Jean Liedloff, the continuum concept is the idea that in order to achieve optimal physical, mental and emotional development, human beings — especially babies — require the kind of experience to which our species adapted during the long process of our evolution. For an infant, these include such experiences as...

*constant physical contact with his mother (or another familiar caregiver as needed) from birth;

*sleeping in his parents' bed, in constant physical contact, until he leaves of his own volition (often about two years);

*breastfeeding "on cue" — nursing in response to his own body's signals;

*being constantly carried in arms or otherwise in contact with someone, usually his mother, and allowed to observe (or nurse, or sleep) while the person carrying him goes about his or her business — until the infant begins creeping, then crawling on his own impulse, usually at six to eight months;

*having caregivers immediately respond to his signals (squirming, crying, etc.), without judgment, displeasure, or invalidation of his needs, yet showing no undue concern nor making him the constant center of attention;

*sensing (and fulfilling) his elders' expectations that he is innately social and cooperative and has strong self-preservation instincts, and that he is welcome and worthy.

In contrast, a baby subjected to modern Western childbirth and child-care practices often experiences...

*traumatic separation from his mother at birth due to medical intervention and placement in maternity wards, in physical isolation except for the sound of other crying newborns, with the majority of male babies further traumatized by medically unnecessary circumcision surgery;

*at home, sleeping alone and isolated, often after "crying himself to sleep";

*scheduled feeding, with his natural nursing impulses often ignored or "pacified";

*being excluded and separated from normal adult activities, relegated for hours on end to a nursery, crib or playpen where he is inadequately stimulated by toys and other inanimate objects;

*caregivers often ignoring, discouraging, belittling or even punishing him when he cries or otherwise signals his needs; or else responding with excessive concern and anxiety, making him the center of attention;

*sensing (and conforming to) his caregivers' expectations that he is incapable of self-preservation, is innately antisocial, and cannot learn correct behavior without strict controls, threats and a variety of manipulative "parenting techniques" that undermine his exquisitely evolved learning process.

Evolution has not prepared the human infant for this kind of experience. He cannot comprehend why his desperate cries for the fulfillment of his innate expectations go unanswered, and he develops a sense of wrongness and shame about himself and his desires. If, however, his continuum expectations are fulfilled — precisely at first, with more variation possible as he matures — he will exhibit a natural state of self-assuredness, well-being and joy. Infants whose continuum needs are fulfilled during the early, in-arms phase grow up to have greater self-esteem and become more independent than those whose cries go unanswered for fear of "spoiling" them or making them too dependent.


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talaith
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posted April 21, 2004 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
and another:

The Sanctity of Human Blood : Vaccination is Not Immunization
by Tim O'Shea

this book presents testimony by leading doctors and authorities, such as Jonas Salk, who discovered the polio vaccine, that refutes the idea that vaccines are safe, or even necessary.

the following is a good review from amazon:

quote:
This book is a must-read for any parents who are beginning to wonder about the safety of childhood vaccines, and even more important for those who aren't. New information coming from the medical community is asking why so many children are dying or receiving life threatening side effects after being vaccinated with the experimental substances that we call "immunizations." Find out the economic and political motivation for making American children the most vaccinated of any population in the history of the world. Learn how vaccines are not really tested for safety before they are mandated into all our school children's bloodstream. Find out about the financial arrangements that exist between the FDA and the vaccine manufaturers. Find out that vaccines contain three of the most toxic substances that exist: mercury, aluminum, and formaldehyde. Doctors are beginning to wonder how these poisons are supposed to bring health. Find out why in 1978 there was 1 autist! ic child in every 10,000, while today it's one in 150! Learn why on the first day of life an Amercian baby is injected with 30x the EPA safe level of mercury. Find out why most parents aren't told that in every state but two it is relatively easy to get a child a permanent exemption from vaccines just by signing a simple form. Find out why the director of the American Academy of Physicians and Surgeons in Oct 00 has called for an immediate moratorium on mandatory vaccination. If any or all this is true, responsible parents should want to know it.


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Harpyr
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From: land of the midnight sun
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posted April 21, 2004 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
I posted an article from a really great book on a thread called circumcized. It was what convinced my partner, who had been somewhat adamantly against it, to decide to not circumcize our son.

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talaith
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posted April 21, 2004 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
dear Harpyr ~

i hope you don't mind if i re-post your article here.....

from Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom
By Christiane Northrup, M.D.

quote:

Circumcision
Circumcision of baby boys is another example of a painful procedure that is unnecessary. I've done hundreds of circumcisions-I am incapable of doing one ever again. Though I often used a local anesthetic, even inserting the needle for this caused the baby unnecessary pain and didn't always work very well. Increasingly, doctors and parents alike are appreciating the fact that babies are born with a nervous system that is fully capable of feeling pain and that circumcision without anesthesia is barbaric. The lead article in the New England Journal of Medicine’s April 1997 issue showed that a topical anesthetic (lidocaine-prilocaine cream) significantly decreases the pain if applied sixty to eighty minutes before the procedure.

In the past when I did the procedure, I would ask mothers to come into the nursery to comfort their babies while they were being circumcised, but they wouldn’t do it. They couldn’t stand the idea. I always made sure I personally took the newly circumcised baby to his mother as soon as I was finished-so that she could comfort her child. I didn’t want him wounded and then left alone in the nursery. Circumcision is a perfect example of the triumph of emotion and outdated and unproven beliefs over common sense and scientific data. In fact, many insurance companies will no longer pay for it because they consider it “cosmetic surgery.” Circumcision does make it easier to keep the penis clean during conditions when bathing is not feasible (such as wartime), and it may decrease the risk of cancer of the penis (which is very rare). But there is very little medical justification for routinely circumcising newborns. Dr. George Dennison sums up the circumcision issue very nicely: “To me the idea of performing 100,000 mutilating procedures on newborns to possibly prevent cancer in one elderly man is absurd.” There is also no solid evidence that circumcising a male protects his female partners from sexually transmitted diseases. What protects them best is monogamy.

The discussion of circumcision is a perfect example of the strength and influence of first-chakra tribal programming on our thought and emotional responses. This programming is so ingrained that many people cannot even discuss the subject of circumcision without guilt, denial, or other strong emotions. I know that even addressing the subject of the baby boy’s bodily integrity, choices and pain (if the procedure is done without anesthetic) can cause a “kill the messenger” reaction. But first-chakra programming can be successfully questioned and worked through, if desired. Many Jewish couples have rethought the entire circumcision issue and have decided not to have it done to their sons. This will certainly not be everyone’s choice.

If I had had a son, I would have draped my own body over his to protect his foreskin if necessary. One of my friends had a son recently and didn’t have him circumcised. When asked why not, her answer was simple: “Why would you automatically cut off a piece of a the body simply because it is there?” Even Benjamin Spock, the baby expert of all time, said that if he had it to do over again, he’d leave his son’s little penis alone.

I’ve seen circumcisions done in the delivery room. Welcome to the world, baby boy-now to initiate you properly, we’re going to cut off one of the most sensitive parts of your body with no anesthesia! Circumcision is known to cause sleep disturbances for atleast three days. I believe that is also has profound implications for male sexuality that I can’t begin to address adequately in this book. In fact, it’s a form of sexual abuse. We certainly feel that way about female clitoridectomy, circumcision, and infibulation, but we justify male infant circumcision by pretending that babies don’t feel it because they’re too young and it will have no consequences when they are older. I was taught that babies couldn’t feel when they were born and therefore wouldn’t feel their circumcision. Why was it, then, that when I strapped their little arms and legs down on the board (called a “circumstraint”), they were often perfectly calm; then when I started cutting their foreskins, they screamed loudly, with cries that broke my heart? For years, in some hospitals, surgery on infants had been carried out without anesthesia because of this misconception! Women who are going through memories of abuse in childhood know how deeply and painfully early experiences leave their marks in the body.

The foreskin is a highly innervated part of the body. There is no doubt that circumcision “toughens” the delicate skin of the tip of the penis. Men who have been circumcised later in life and who therefore know the difference report a decrease in their sexual sensations. One of my friends who is [i]not[j/] circumcised says that he wonders if rape is less common in countries in which the men are not circumcised. His experience is that having intercourse with a woman who isn’t aroused and well lubricated is as painful for him as it is for her because of the delicacy of the foreskin! The foreskin is part of a male’s body wisdom. What feelings might he miss if he doesn’t have it? The foreskin, in addition to being a highly innervated area, is also perfect for skin grafts and should be left in place in case a boy ever needs one. Right now, foreskins removed in circumcision are being cultured and used for temporary skin grafts in those who have had burns or following certain kinds of surgeries. One foreskin yields enough cells to cover an area the size of four football fields! In Europe, circumcision is rarely done except in Jewish populations. Its continued popularity in the United States still amazes me.


*thanks*

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talaith
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posted April 22, 2004 02:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
Doctors Opposing Circumcision
2442 NW Market St. Suite 42
Seattle, Washington, 98107
U.S.A.

George C. Denniston M.D., M.P.H.
President
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Having to justify the foreskin is like having to justify breast feeding!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The End of Circumcision

With the formation of Doctors Opposing Circumcision (D.O.C.), we are proposing to end routine neonatal circumcision in America. D.O.C., a rapidly growing organization of doctors, intends to bring out the facts about this tragic practice.

Why Doctors will Stop Performing Circumcisions

All non­religious circumcisions in the U.S. are performed by doctors, who will soon be unwilling to perform this painful, contra­indicated procedure. Why?

Already, an ever­growing number of physicians are opposed to routine neonatal circumcision. These doctors recognize that no one has the right to forcibly remove sexual body parts from another individual. They recognize that doctors should have no role in this painful, unnecessary procedure inflicted on the newborn.

Routine circumcisions have been found to violate not only the Golden Rule, but the first tenet of medical practice, First, Do No Harm. Amazingly, circumcision violates all seven Principles of the A.M.A. Code of Ethics.

Circumcision is not surgery, by definition. Surgical procedures have been defined as: repair of wounds, extirpation of diseased organs or tissue, reconstructive surgery, and physiologic surgery (i.e. sympathectomy). Routine circumcision does not fall into any of these categories. Therefore, routine infant male circumcision is not a valid surgical procedure. Doctors' licenses do not permit them to cut people unless they are performing surgery, nor may they harm their patients.

America has the highest rate of AIDS in the industrialized world, and is the only major country which circumcises a majority of its males. Is there a connection? We do not know. Before a doctor performs a circumcision, must he not have the answer to this question: might this baby have an increased risk of AIDS - as the result of circumcision?

American men are now documenting the harm that has been done to them by doctors who operated on them without their consent. The bizarre practice of having parents tell a doctor whether and when to operate occurs nowhere else in medicine. According to modern medical ethics, parents do not have the right to consent to a procedure that is not in their son's best interests. The removal of a healthy, normal part of the male sexual organ is not in their son's best interests.

The Courage to Change

Why has this behavior continued in the face of overwhelming evidence that circumcision violates a basic human right - the right to an intact body? In order for a doctor to stop circumcising babies, he or she must take a courageous step.

The doctor must recognise that what has been done in the past was not in the best interest of the infant, and he must say, "I will not circumcise any more babies." Many doctors have already taken that step, and we honor them. Those who lack the courage to change continue to circumcise.

Many victims of circumcision have moved past denial, and have refused to permit this procedure to be done to their sons. Over the past 25 years, some 60 million American parents have had the courage to refuse circumcision for their sons.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Fear, pain, crippling, disfigurement and humiliation are the classic ways to break the human spirit. Circumcision includes them all."

- a circumcision victim
(from The Joy of Uncircumcising! by Jim Bigelow, PhD, Hourglass Books, P. O. Box 171, Aptos CA 95001)

Circumcision Information and Resource Pages
Mothers Against Circumcision
Circumcision - It's Not Necessary, by Benjamin Spock MD

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pixelpixie
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From: Ontario Canada
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posted April 22, 2004 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message
I got the heads up to this forum discussion from Talaith, so thought I'd check it out.
When I had my son, I worked at Greenpeace. I was young and optimistic and very into natrural child rearing. Of course, reality set in in small ways, but I was able to do alot of things I cherished for my son's ( and more recently, my daughter's ) benefit.
I had a midwife for both, however my son's birth was a tad complicated... I was also in the hospital for both, but with a mmidwife's care. I experienced natural childbirth with my daughter... and I will never forget it ( in a positive way!!) and highly reccomend it if possible, even to see what you are capable of, it is a feat of pain and tenderness and power.
I practised exclusive breastfeeding for the first year of my son's life. I incorporated other baby foods for my daughter, but no formula ever, for either. I breastfed both children for over two years. Though it is not something I talk about in most circles. Some people think Breasts=sexuality. but, well, you know how wrong that is..... there is a division.
I used cloth diapers for a while after my son was born, but well, didn't work out too well for many reasons... the most important being that we were very poor, with almost no access to laundry facilities.
I didn't circumcise my boy either, I think it is barbarically useless. My husband ( daughter's father) said if he had a boy, he'd want him to 'look' like him ( circumsiced) but I was vehemently against it, to the extent that I was willing to leave him over it.... that he'd want to mutilate MY child, with no real reason. Luckily I had a girl. ( Understand these are personal opinions, and I don't judge others for their opinions. At least, I try to see with compassion)
I practised bed sharing with both children as well. My kids are botrh very independent, and while I was able to be with my son always during his first few years of life, I wasn't able to with my daughter, so she got the benefit of close time with mommy, even if we missed it while I was at work. I firmly believe they areindependent due to the security of knowing mom and dad love and cuddle them at night as well.
So many more things...point being, I agree with your philosophies.
I am on the fence about immunizations... it is almost unnecessary in civilized countries, but on the other hand, with others travelling pretty freely due to planes, it might be prudent to see to most of them.. but as I said, I am on the fence....
Night all, have a great night/day!!!

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TINK
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posted April 23, 2004 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TINK     Edit/Delete Message
Lots of interesting stuff talaith. The better half and I are still in the negotiating stage regarding children. Can we or can't we. Right now we are leaning towards "no" but reading threads like this gives me more of the info I need to make the right decision.

Pixel, you worked for Greenpeace? Did you come out cynical or with your idealism still intact? Go on over to Gaia's Garden and tell us stories.

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crystelle
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posted April 28, 2004 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for crystelle     Edit/Delete Message
what do you guys think about this?

when i was only about a month or two into my pregnancy, my mom got shingles. you can only get shingles if you have had chicken pox. shingles is a second stage of chicken pox.

I have never had chicken pox, which means that if exposed to either shingles or chicken pox, i am suceptable to the chicken pox virus.

i had a chicken pox vaccination several years ago, so they said that i did not have to worry about getting it.

is this an example of a "pro" for vaccinating?

I am completely torn when it comes to vaccinations. I fully realize what they are and that millions of people are misled, but...

?

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talaith
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posted April 28, 2004 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for talaith     Edit/Delete Message
who told you that you didn't have to worry about getting it?

quote:
Outbreak of varicella at a day-care center despite vaccination.

Galil K, Lee B, Strine T, Carraher C, Baughman AL, Eaton M, Montero J, Seward J.

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, USA. karin.galil@cubist.com

BACKGROUND: In seven studies of the effectiveness of the varicella vaccine conducted since it was licensed, the effectiveness was 71 to 100 percent against disease of any severity and 95 to 100 percent against moderate and severe disease. We investigated an outbreak of varicella in a population of children with a high proportion of vaccinees who were attending a day-care center in a small community in New Hampshire. METHODS: Using standardized questionnaires, we collected information about the children's medical and vaccination history from parents and health care providers. The analysis of the effectiveness of the vaccine and of risk factors for vaccine failure was restricted to children who were enrolled in the day-care center continuously during the outbreak and attended for one week or more and who were cared for in the building that represented the epicenter of the outbreak, since transmission was not documented in a second building. RESULTS: Varicella developed in 25 of 88 children (28.4 percent) between December 1, 2000, and January 11, 2001. The index case occurred in a healthy child who had been vaccinated three years previously and who infected more than 50 percent of his classmates who had no history of varicella. The effectiveness of the vaccine was 44.0 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 6.9 to 66.3 percent) against disease of any severity and 86.0 percent (95 percent confidence interval, 38.7 to 96.8 percent) against moderate or severe disease. Children who had been vaccinated three years or more before the outbreak were at greater risk for vaccine failure than those who had been vaccinated more recently (relative risk, 2.6 [95 percent confidence interval, 1.3 to 5.3]). CONCLUSIONS: In this outbreak, vaccination provided poor protection against varicella, although there was good protection against moderate or severe disease. A longer interval since vaccination was associated with an increased risk of vaccine failure. Breakthrough infections in vaccinated, healthy persons can be as infectious as varicella in unvaccinated persons. Copyright 2002 Massachusetts Medical Society

PMID: 12477940 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12477940&dopt=Abstract

quote:
PEARBLOSSOM, Calif. (PRWEB)October 8, 2003--– The results of a new study published in the October 1, 2003, issue of the European journal Vaccine indicate that a higher than expected number of shingles cases was reported among children with a previous history of chickenpox. The rates observed approach those normally seen only in older adults. Results of the study suggest mass vaccination with varicella (chickenpox) vaccine may be responsible for this adverse effect. Complications from shingles, which is caused by the reactivation of the chickenpox virus that lies dormant in the body, result in about three times the number of hospitalizations and five times the number of deaths as those from chickenpox disease itself. Shingles, usually mild in children, can be severe in adults.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2003/10/prweb83848.php

chicken pox vaccine information

important vaccine information

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WychOfAvalon
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Posts: 633
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Feb 2003

posted April 29, 2004 03:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for WychOfAvalon     Edit/Delete Message
I always used disposable diapers. How are cloth diapers washed? I heard services use to much bleach and chemicals to clean cloth diapers that environmentally speaking it's sort of a lost cause.

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on a round-about i'm turning on to you.. don't you love the way we're turning, yes you do.. little schools of hummingbirds are streaming by.. while we're merging with the color of the sky.. big yellow sun.. you're the one.. here's our souls
heal them, heal them.. beautiful girl you're the world.. i'm in you, breathing

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Harpyr
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Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 29, 2004 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
yeah.. it's sort of a trade off.. disposables fill up landfills but cloth diapers use alot of water, bleach and electricity. Unless you are at home washing them by hand.

Another thing that kinda weirded me out about the service is that your kid is wearing diapers that other kids have worn. That's why they use the bleach of course but it still makes me uneasy.

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The role of religion is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. :::P.T. Barnum

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gloomy sag
Knowflake

Posts: 355
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted April 29, 2004 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gloomy sag     Edit/Delete Message
Well, long time ago my mother wore only cloth diapers. My grandmother washed them by hand with home made soap. It took her a long time to do so and she hated it... But she didn't have any other choice. I don't know if any of you guys have spoken to anybody that didn't have the luxury to use disposable diapers.
Let me tell you - my grandmother didn't comprehend why somebody would want to make their live harder than it already is.

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Harpyr
Moderator

Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 21, 2006 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
ooo I'd forgotten about his string...

So I'm on the second child now and we are happily cloth diapering!

okayokayokay.. I must confess we use disposables (Seventh Generation bleach free!) at night. I haven't figured out how to make the cloth diapers work for a 12 hour stretch without leaking or causing a rash from excessive moisture.

But other than that, we are loovin the cloth diapering!

I am a huuge fan of wool covers.. They let you know when babe is wet cause you can feel the warmth but they still keep the moisture inside (as long as the wool is well lanolized).

We've got a washer and dryer and I just do a load every other day, or every three days.. we also use the dry pail method. It's really easy! And they smell waay better than that nasty chemical smell that disposables have when they are wet.

Crystelle, I wonder if you are still around.. Did you end up using cd?

We are also not vaccinating after lengthy and continuing research on the matter...


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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 2298
From: Japan
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 21, 2006 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message
We have been cloth diapering since our son was born in June. It's great! We use natural organic cotton diapers from this site: http://www.punkinbutt.com/
Highly recommend them. He wears one at night with a bummie wrap (diaper cover) and hasn't had a problem with rash or leaks. (Well, one minor rash but that was due to carrots and Burt's Bees diaper ointment cleared it up in a jiffy.) We also don't use pins, just snappis. Wet pail for us with the washing machine doubling for soaks. We use baking soda instead of bleach and it works just fine. One hot cycle and 2 rinse cycles and all stains and odors are gone. 60 mins in the dryer on hot and we're good.
Sling? Great! Use it every day.
Co-sleeping? Great! We co-slept until he was about 7 months old when he started rolling over on his own and waking up in the middle of the night uncomfortable with us "in his way", lol. He did cry for the first 2 or 3 nights for about 10 minutes (with us walking in and reassuring him, etc) but now he sleeps just fine in his own room and crib. Still naps with me during the day, though.
Still breastfeeding which is just wonderful.
No bottle except for the first few weeks of his life when we were foolish enough to listen to our pediatrician that I "wasn't making enough milk". Bull. Utter bull. Trust your body. If you could create the child, you can create the milk. Just my opinion from my own experience. Big for docs that are quick to push formula "just in case".
No pacifier, either. He just won't have it and we've never encouraged it.
I'll admit he does spend some time in the play pen but it's mostly because I have an injured back and, frankly, mopping floors and scrubbing bathrooms with an extra 20lbs on me is not something I can do well at this point, lol.
Stroller? Sure. But only when we go for an actual stroll around the park or neighborhood. He gets so excited and has never been upset by it.
No circumcision either. I've never understood it and flat-out refused. I provided hubby with info on it and he flat-out refused, too.
We have had him vaccinated but with vaccines that don't contain mercury. Don't know if we will keep it up. Having my husband in the military right now and not knowing where on Earth we'll be sent next is my main concern about that.
Also, if you're interested in making your own baby food, the book Super Baby Food by Ruth Yaron is excellent for veggies or non-veggies alike! Can't say enough good things about it. And it is sooooo much cheaper!
Also, The Vegetarian Child by Lucy Moll is really good, too.
In the end, you just have to do the best you can and be happy. More important than anything else, children need Love.
Also, looking into Waldorf Education has been a wonderful eye-opening experience for me and mine. Rudolf Steiner's explanations of child development will make so much sense even while they blow your mind.
Doh, gotta' run.
Hope everyone and their little bundles of innocence are doing wonderfully!

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"To learn is to live, to study is to grow, and growth is the measurement of life. The mind must be taught to think, the heart to feel, and the hands to labor. When these have been educated to their highest point, then is the time to offer them to the service of their fellowman, not before." - Manly P. Hall

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Harpyr
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Posts: 2255
From: land of the midnight sun
Registered: Dec 2002

posted April 23, 2006 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message
Eleanore... Your little boy is lucky to have such a wonderful mama!

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