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Author Topic:   Am I shallow?
Gemini Nymph
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posted January 12, 2007 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
OK, this is alittle touch-in-cheek, but here's the deal:

I'm a pretty "deep" person, intellectually, spritiually, philosophically, artistically, with animals and nature, with close friends and with children. But when it comes to romantic relationships with men, I have a serious "take it or leave it" attitude and trruth is, I feel like I'm rather shallow. I hate getting emotionally involved with men I'm attracted to. Does that make sense?

I was thinking today I should back off with a guy I'm interested in, and while I'm very attracted to him intellectually and sexually, I feel no emotional hang ups about not pursuing this any further with him. I've been pretty much like this all my life. On rare occasion I became emoitonal dependant on a man, but I kind of learned how to avoid that now. And honestly, while I've been boy crazy since age 5, I can't say I've ever really been "in love" with a man. This can't be normal.

Now my chart: I do have 1H Libra Uranus stationary trine 9H Gem Venus. Obviously I'm very detached and whatnot. But I also have a 7H Pisces moon, which should indicate a lot more emotionality and warm-fuzzy stuff than I'm known for with my track record.

Anyone want to comment on this? I know I'm risking someone making a joke out of this - there's a tr Mars-Pluto conjunction going around at the moment, so be nice! But hey, honestly I don't know what's my deal. Am I just so Uranian or airy or whatever that romantic relationships are beyond me?

I mean, am I capable of falling in love and having an emotionally substantial relationship with a man? I talking about me here: I'm fond of saying that all I want from a guy is 1) he makes me laugh, 2) he's good in bed, and3) he leaves when I'm bored with him. That does sound awfully shallow, doesn't it?

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lioneye68
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posted January 13, 2007 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lioneye68     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Gemini Nymph
Well the first thing that strikes me is your moon conjunct the desc. This indicates expectations that are cyclical in nature, toward relationship. Simular to how the moon moves in phases of strong, stonger, intense, less intense, somewhat weak, weaker, non existant. I could see you in a cyclical relationship with some who has strong lunar energy, moody I guess you could say. The tricky part would be in keeping the cycles in sync. When you need him, he may be mad at you - when he needs you, you may be in your "not interested" phase.

This moon is opposed by Pluto. When you're on, baby you're SO on. Unfortunately, when you're off, you may cut off your nose to spite your face, so to speak.

You don't know your time of birth, obviously. Too bad. Edit: I'm on good drugs. nevermind. (kidding, not on drugs, just merlot)

Sun/Moon square is always indicitive of unresolved emotional issues stemming from the dad/mom experience. I wish I knew what houses these planets were in. (will edit this later, seeing that the placements are there) Nevertheless, you may find that things that please you, also annoy some part of you, and things that annoy you, also please you in some part. You don't know what you want. So, you figure you don't want anything. You even annoy yourself. (who doesn't? - says the girl with the sun/moon opposition, perhaps niavely)

Venus oppose Neptune - yuck. I have the square. You may have an addictive personality, which doesn't help you pull rank in your relationships, at least not with the impact you would like. You could have impossible standards - or, be constantly in love with the man you haven't met yet. Maybe you will one day, but in the meantime...ho-hum.

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lovely*
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posted January 13, 2007 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
Gem, your 7th looks like its leaning in.
~7H~ makes sense with Pisces drowning your god sense and intellect.

[i made a typo and said "god" instead of "good" but did not want to correct it because of the possible frueduian slip.

anyway, it may be symbolic and not astological at all. but on an intuitive level you're psycho-emotional level is leaning. he feels and knows it.

which makes sense.

what are his planets?

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lovely*
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posted January 13, 2007 02:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lovely*     Edit/Delete Message
lioneye, you are suited to answer these questions. Very good...I knew you were sharp, candid, open and witty...but you really went out tonight.

Gem, my Gem daughter is also boy crazy at 5 years old. I was too. could it be our upbringing?

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sue g
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posted January 13, 2007 05:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
GN

I dont think you are shallow....

Just that there is a conflict in your personality. It sort of feels like a water and air kinda thing.

Yes you are very deep, but there can be a flippant side to your personality, which isnt meant to harm, but can at times come across as quite scathing. I feel you do this at some level to "keep others away"

I also think you are on a healing path, especially the past few weeks....you are facing demons that you couldnt face previously. You may find in a years time you are quite a different woman to what you have been in the past!

You are taking stock of your life and looking back and maybe regretting some things...

Regarding your question, i feel the relationships with men in your life will "ease" when you have healed these issues from your past?

The never being in love thing is prob due to the childhood thing we do...the "closing down" to prevent further hurt. Its a very slow process to heal this, but it can be done. When you feel comfortable to connect with someone on a deeper level, you will, it might not come until you turn 40. Then it will be like 'Wow"

Well you did ask......

Oh yeah....didnt look at the chart at all....my message was given to me from some place else.

Good luck to you....red knickers and all...

And if I can help you at all, dont hesitate to ask


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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 13, 2007 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
Thanks guys.

Lioneye - Yeah, that chart's drawn to my confirmed birth date. The houses are all correct.

I'm pretty familiar with what you said, although I'm not sure how that connects to how I'm not easiy emotional engaged in realtionship. Even if my moon's cyclic, you'd think once in a while I'd feel connected with a guy so far. But I haven't felt that. I've felt an emotional need to have him around - but even that's pretty shallow, because that really more about gratifying so basic personal needs like security and loneliness, rather htan having an actual, deeeper connection with him.

The bit about being constantly in love with a man I haven't met yet is intreguing. i have had that sense for a long time now, like I'm just waiting on someone to show up and when he does I'll know. I've been chalking that up to my 7H Pisces moon's inclination to idealize reality and retreat into dreams when reality sucks. I figuer it's just a psychological coping mechanism for the fact that deep down, I really do want to have a soul mate, someone I can really connect with, even those I'm very doubtful I'll ever have that in this life.

lovely - I don't know what you mean by my moon "leaning in." This isn't really about this particular guy (he's an Aqua-Aries), but just my relationships with men in general, which seem to me to have been rather shallow on the emotional level (on my part).

sue g - I "can be" flippant? Can be? Like there's any doubt? LOL. As for keeping people away - yes I do that. But with men I'm attrracted to, it's not so much I push them away (sometimes, not not always) but that I can't seem to connect. I used to have to vision in my head when I was younger that my heart's in some sort of vault, and only certian people knew teh combination tot hat vault. I feel a little helpless here - like I *need* someone else to figure me out. And it seems I haven't found that person yet.

And I don't mean to a flippant but this healing path I've been on - not a few weeks. Try a few years. Hell, how about the past decade? I'm 35 years old, and this path pretty much started 10 1/2 years, when I decided I wasn't the person I wanted to be and that needed to change. You're just seeing the recent epsiode in a very long series.

I can understand this has a lot to due with my childhood, and I hope I can heal to where I can have some sort of emotional intimacy with a man. We'll see.

Thanks again.

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Swerve
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posted January 13, 2007 01:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swerve     Edit/Delete Message
From what I've seem absolutely not Gemini.

I think the word "fussy" would describe you best, and why shouldn't you be? Are you supposed to settle for someone less than capable of satisfying that challenging intellect and guarded sensitivity?

Don't take offence from that I think it gives you an element of challenge that is more genuine that the childish games some women play.

You are quite unique. When you finaly meet a chap who recognises that he will cherish you for it. That isn't in a patronising "my little clever Princess" way, just genuine admiration and respect. Maybe he doesn't exist who knows?

How could you possibly settle for less though in the long run? Surely that would be akin to romantic suicide?

You are true to yourself when others bend. I see that as a virtue myself.

Hope you find him.

Swerve

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LuLu
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posted January 13, 2007 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LuLu     Edit/Delete Message
Gemini...oddly enough, I understand everything that you are saying. I'm very much the same way. My friends moan about it all the time. I think I've heard the words "please give this guy a chance" more times than I can count. But whatever physical or intellectual attraction I have for someone, I don't often find myself really connecting with them. Actually I keep them at arms length and don't really let them in. Believe me, I want someone around to lay on the couch with or go out to eat with, but I only want that on my schedule.

At the same time, deep down, I know that it would be completely different if it were the right man. I don't just want to force a connection or find a reason to connect when there isn't one. I want the one person that the connection is so amazing with that I can't avoid it.

But I've always been independent. Blame it on experiences and childhood, but I rely on myself. Until this past year, I had never said "I love you" to any man. I just had never felt that before. Then I found it. The one man who could see through me like no one had ever been able to before. He just got me...completely. Without really having to explain myself. We were a definite mirror for each other. More alike than words can say. Like magnets. And I would have moved heaven and earth to make it work. But it didn't. It was like two suns colliding. Maybe we just weren't ready yet. I wouldn't give that experience up for anything though. Because now...I am pickier than I ever was before. I won't settle for anything less that everything.

I deserve it.

You deserve it.

It will come.

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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 13, 2007 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
Swerve and LuLu

Swerve said:

quote:
How could you possibly settle for less though in the long run? Surely that would be akin to romantic suicide?

"Romantic suicide" - LOL. I'll have to keep that phrase in mind.

The truly frustrating thing is I've been told all my life I should "settle," that my expections are too much. Not because they are so much as people seem to often think I'm asking for more than they think I deserve. I don't quite understand it, but I've been treated like I'm some waste of space a good part of my life, especially when I was kid. (And sue, you were saying something about me pushing people away - that's laregly why: they have a bad habot of treating me like dirt.) I'm older and b*tchier now, so now when people seem to think my self-respect is too big for my "station in life" and try to knock my down like that, I stand my ground better.

I have long known what I wanted in a man, but people always tell me I won't find that. So they tell me I need to lower the bar and settle for something I frankly don't want. But I can't do that to myself. I learned a long time ago that when no one will give you respect, it's up to you to respect yourself. And "settling" to me sees like a betrayal of that self-respect I've worked so hard to obtain despite the odds. I'd just like to think that all my perserverence and stubbornness will pay off somehow.

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sue g
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posted January 13, 2007 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
NO!!!

Dont settle for less.....why should you?

One of the reasons I have had three husbands is because I wouldnt stay with a bloke just because I thought I should. Even to the detriment of my family, I decided to get out and be true to myself.

We all deserve the best and anyone who doesnt think so....probably ends up being very unhappy.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
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posted January 13, 2007 08:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
The venus-uranus trine has a +5 orb,
so its negligible, imo.

The first thing i saw was Venus Conjunct Saturn.

The ruler of the 7th is conjunct Jupiter,
and this increases the need for freedom...

There's a lot more I could say, but, the bottom line is, you are probably just playing it safe. In other words, I think there are men out there who can stir your passions and hold your attention, but you probably arent looking for them. Too messy. Too risky.

Just my 2-cent pop-psychological opinion.

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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 13, 2007 11:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
Sue - yes. I'm with you. I've had to be true to myself at detriment to my family. They wanted me to stay miserible for their sake. That's a big part why i don't get along with them.

HSC - Rule of thuumb in astrology is if it acts like an aspect, it is an aspect. This is acts like an aspect - ask any of my oddball friends that I routinely attract.

As for Saturn - I wouldn't say I'm not a risk-taker in romance. Actually I believe I am, especially since I have pursued a great variety of men in my life. I just haven't connected with them. You seem to imply that I won't risk giving guys a chance. But I don't think that's true - I give guys a chance, often a few chances even if it's over a short period of time. It's just my deductions and instincts are very quick and once my gut says "He's not right" then I don't see any point in pursuing it any further. It's not out of fear some much as following my instincts. If Saturn's playing a hand here, I suspect it's making my instincts more astute and my response more pragmatic.

And sorry if this sounds *ahem* flippant, but no one who has ever said to me "I bet there's plenty of guys out there if you'd just gave them a chance" has understood what I'm about - and I'm heard that one a LOT too. My gut always says that's the wrong path for me. So you're right - I'm not looking for them. And yes it would be messy, because I'd be wasting my time doing something that's not right for me.

I'm not romantic in my interest in a "mate" and people who are romantic don't get that, it seems. I don't get dreamy-eyed and swept off my feet, and I don't want a guy to do that for me. I have no interest in that "magical chemistry" other people think is so important. That's for someone else, not me. I just want to connect with him in a meaningful and genuine way emotionally and spiritually. I want someone I can stand with as an equal and an individual, and share a bond of deep mutual respect and understanding. If I can't have that, then I'd rather be alone. If all I can hope for is some guy to "stir" me up for a while with romantic illusion of love and other mind games to distract from the fact that I can't have what I truly want, then I'd rather pass and focus my energies on other things in this life.

And yes that's Saturn speaking in that - but not out fear or reluctance, but out of Saturn's insistence on living an authentic life. And like Swerve said, I don't bend, especially on this particular Saturnine priniciple. I don't now what else to say to people who seem to think that by following my gut I'm somehow "missing out" on things they think are important. If I could have them walk in my shoes or live in my head for day I'm sure they'd understand, but until then, I guess I just have sigh and go on as I always do.

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Swerve
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posted January 14, 2007 04:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swerve     Edit/Delete Message
I would say one thing Gemini.

The connection you seek may not be all sugary sweet and the typical whirlwind of emotions that cloud the judgement (and quite frequently dissipate into nastiness or indifference when reality strikes), but I think maybe you could loosen up a little on considering that the intellectual, spiritual recognition you seek in an equal is totally removed from this.

Perhaps you just want a very specific type of connection and would ONLY accept something if it was exactly right. This would be very rare indeed, but more tangible.

I believe romance and genuine reality can come together, but I have to take that on faith, which I guess is where we differ.

You should not bend but I don't want you to lose hope either which I guess is what may have started this thread, the beginnings of that?

I may be making an assumption here, so correct me if I'm wrong.

I've read your posts for a few years and I always receive them with a mixture of apprehension that someone is gonna "get it" but also admiration for your strong personal stance, albeit backed up with an abundance of knowledge and practicality.

That can be quite sexy, and I would imagine someone else would think the same.

edit: read through your first post again to check my point of view here and I'm left wondering if you find it difficult to identify what it would be in a man that would make you respect HIM as an equal?

Would it be a simililarity to you or someone soooo different and unique that you could be eternally fascinated and challenged by him? Either of these could lead to a never ending intellectual sparring or co-operation that initiated spiritual growth within each of you and that journey in itself would spark the roamnce and ongoing connection? The question of bending or acceptng anything less then becomes quite abhorrent in contrast.

Just a thought.

Swerve

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Heart--Shaped Cross
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From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
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posted January 14, 2007 05:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Rule of thuumb in astrology is if it acts like an aspect, it is an aspect. This is acts like an aspect - ask any of my oddball friends that I routinely attract.

Hmmm.... Well, I know a few rules of thumb myself. For instance, if the behaviors you are describing can be explained by several close, dynamic aspects, then there is no need to place undue emphasis on a wide, flowing aspect. There are other aspects, much closer, in your chart, to explain your attraction to oddball friends. The ruler of your 11th is in Pisces, in hard aspect to the Ascendant, for one thing. And your Venus is opposing Neptune and Jupiter. Look no further! But, if you like that trine so much, go ahead and exaggerate its importance.

quote:
I wouldn't say I'm not a risk-taker in romance. Actually I believe I am, especially since I have pursued a great variety of men in my life.

You misread me. I'm not talking about giving guys a chance, or taking a risk on every tom, dick, and harry who does not catch your eye and reel it in all by himself. I'm talking about taking a chance on those guys you might think are too good for you. Thats when the deeper feelings you are talking about can come into play. Thats a guy who can hold your attention. But maybe you like to think of yourself as unimpressed, so you only hook up with unimpressive guys?

quote:
If Saturn's playing a hand here, I suspect it's making my instincts more astute and my response more pragmatic.

I think Saturn makes you play it safe.
Too safe.

quote:
... no one who has ever said to me "I bet there's plenty of guys out there if you'd just gave them a chance" has understood what I'm about - and I'm heard that one a LOT too. My gut always says that's the wrong path for me. So you're right - I'm not looking for them. And yes it would be messy, because I'd be wasting my time doing something that's not right for me.

I am not one of those people, and I'm not telling you to give unattractive guys a chance. What I am saying is, you are not going to find a pearl without cracking a few oysters, and you are not going to find any oysters sitting up in your ivory tower. You are the one who started a thread about your unfulfilling love life, so, evidently, it is clearly important to you.

quote:
I'm not romantic... I just want to connect with him in a meaningful and genuine way emotionally and spiritually. I want someone I can stand with as an equal and an individual, and share a bond of deep mutual respect and understanding. If I can't have that, then I'd rather be alone. If all I can hope for is some guy to "stir" me up for a while with romantic illusion of love and other mind games to distract from the fact that I can't have what I truly want, then I'd rather pass and focus my energies on other things in this life.

LOL. Spoken like a true romantic.

quote:
And yes that's Saturn speaking in that - but not out fear or reluctance, but out of Saturn's insistence on living an authentic life.

What you call "authentic" may just be an idealized projection of your lack of motivation, and stubborn reluctance to change your routine (Saturn in Taurus), based on an unrealistic expectation that love, if it is meant to be, will beat a path to your door (Venus op Neptune).

----

True love will find you in the end
You're gonna find out that love's your friend
Don't be sad, I know you will
But don't give up until
True love will find you in the end

This is a promise with a catch
Only if you're looking can it find you
Cause true love is searching too
How can it recognize you
Unless you step out into the light, the light?

Don't be sad, I know you will
Don't give up until
True love will find you in the end


- lyrics by daniel johnston

------------------
'Would you know your Lord's meaning in this thing? Know it well. Love was his meaning. Who showed it to you? Love. What did he show you? Love. Why did he show it? For love. Keep yourself therein and you shall know and understand more in the same. But you shall never know nor understand any other thing, forever.'
- Julian of Norwich

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f309/Alem7/chart1.gif

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f309/Alem7/steve5.jpg

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eatbooks
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posted January 15, 2007 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for eatbooks     Edit/Delete Message
+5 degrees orb is a trine..just because its not a tight orb doesnt make it obsolete...ORBS dont have to be tight everytime...far from negligible (her aspect)

there are limits in orb degree for a reason. looking only at tight orbs is so limiting.

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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 15, 2007 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
HSC - I'm just not even going to respond to that post. You want to *dictate* to me what I'm thinking, doing and feeling to conform to your interpretation of my chart, rather than listening and being reciprocal to what I'm saying and looking to how that may translate into my chart. I find that a little insulting and pretentious of you. I mean, you must not have a very high opinion of me as an astrologer in my right if you think I wouldn't notice that. You did that in the first post, and I played nice while stood my ground. I didn't call you on that. But you had to try it again. So I'm calling you on it now.

You're an Aqua moon - I definitely get that. I'm sure you feel you're right on target and will dissect my every post and twist my every word until I relent and say "Yes, you're right." But frankly, your emphatic insistence that I'm wrong or misconstruing your words doesn't make you right (or innocent of misconstruing my words). You're just being pushy, in a very Scorpion passive-aggressive way that makes you sound sincere, caring and heart-felt (nice touch BTW). However, you're going to need a lot more than couple winking emoticons to fool me - you're being a bully and you need to back off.

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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 15, 2007 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
eatbooks - LOL. I like that. People sometimes forget that astrology is not just empricial but intuitive too.

Oh, I could say so much more but we can discuss the " to orb or not to orb" question in another thread.


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Gemini Nymph
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posted January 15, 2007 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Nymph     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I would say one thing Gemini.

Just one thing, huh? LOL.

quote:
The connection you seek may not be all sugary sweet and the typical whirlwind of emotions that cloud the judgement (and quite frequently dissipate into nastiness or indifference when reality strikes), but I think maybe you could loosen up a little on considering that the intellectual, spiritual recognition you seek in an equal is totally removed from this.

Um, OK I get what your'e saying (I think) except for the "lossening up" part. Loosen up what way? In how I approach men? Or how I'm kind of being hard on myself about this?

I do try to lossen up in my approach to men. I attract all sorts of men, and I'm intrigued by that variety. (Heh, that's actually a small part of my problem - I want a little of each sometimes....that's definitely my Gem Venus talking). I like to be open to possiblities, and every man I am attracted to, at least in the first stages, I find uniquely attractive.

As for loosening up in terms my wn attitude - yeah, I probably do need that. I get rather intense at times. Talking it out helps me relax more and get a better presepctive.

quote:
Perhaps you just want a very specific type of connection and would ONLY accept something if it was exactly right. This would be very rare indeed, but more tangible.

I do have a tendency, when I get that inner intensity that I was speaking about above, that things *have* to be a certain way. But I also know that's not necessarily true.

In terms of who's my "equal," when I was younger I had a much more narrow view than I do now. I think more in terms of my "equal" being someone with whom there's a complimentary balance. I don't nececssarily think my "equal" will mirror me in fine detail that much, but I do think there has be a general common ground in terms of intellectual and spiritual attitudes.

In a way, this is still very "exact" - while I'm open to more possibilities to who might be my "equal" I'm still looking for a very specific kind of relationship or connection. Is that more tangible? I don't know. Maybe that's what I need to learn next - to be open to a broader experience in terms of the relationship itself.

quote:
I believe romance and genuine reality can come together, but I have to take that on faith, which I guess is where we differ.

Well, perhaps not so much. I'm just the type that wants that mutual respect up front. Honestly, I think if I had that, I'd be quite flexible and open to whatever else that relationship might bring. I can see myself being in a "romantic" relationship with a man, but only if I had trust in his respect for me first.

This is an example: as a rule, I hate guys giving me gifts. Not because I hate getting gifts, but because without the respect, I question their motives. I don't know what they are telling me when they give me flowers or something like that. However, I love getting gifts as a sincere gesture of affection - I love giving gifts for that reason too. I just don't want to be a sucker.

I also don't like getting gifts frfom guys at the start of the relationship, because I feel there's a lack of equality there. I don't like being the passive partner. I am the type to ask guys out, pay of dinner, buy *them* gifts, etc. etc. But often times guys dislike or are uncomfortable with that. And I feel that if I have to resign to being just the passive partner at the start, I'll never be on equal footing with them. Does that make sense?

quote:
You should not bend but I don't want you to lose hope either which I guess is what may have started this thread, the beginnings of that?

Well, I don't feel so much hope right now. I'm just kind of in a pessismistic mode at the moment. On one hand, i started this thread because I wanted to fight off that despair. On the other hand, a aprt of me was looking for a good reason to just quit. But I'll be OK. I have that annoying Gemini habit of always buncing back.

quote:
I've read your posts for a few years and I always receive them with a mixture of apprehension that someone is gonna "get it" but also admiration for your strong personal stance, albeit backed up with an abundance of knowledge and practicality.

That can be quite sexy, and I would imagine someone else would think the same.


That's very complimentary. I don't know if you're right or wrong, though. I guess it's pretty subjective. I often don't know how people respond to my posts. I do tend to come on rather forcefully, often more so than I intend (especially in writing). I'm told I can be a bit, um, "scathing" at times, too, so it's nice to hear something a little more flattering.

quote:
edit: read through your first post again to check my point of view here and I'm left wondering if you find it difficult to identify what it would be in a man that would make you respect HIM as an equal?

Would it be a simililarity to you or someone soooo different and unique that you could be eternally fascinated and challenged by him? Either of these could lead to a never ending intellectual sparring or co-operation that initiated spiritual growth within each of you and that journey in itself would spark the roamnce and ongoing connection? The question of bending or acceptng anything less then becomes quite abhorrent in contrast.


This is a very good inquiry, and one that's been rattling around in my head for the past 10 years, if not longer. I don't think I have a very good answer for you though!

I know I don't want a stagnant relationship. Growth is something I need. That scares me a little, because I know it's hard ot find osmeone who can grow with you in a complimentary way. Nonetheless, that's what I know I need, and so if it makes my search harder, well, then my search is harder.

I've learned that I don't necessarily want a man who is my exact "twin." I want someone who can stand his own with me and compliment me on the important things, but he doesn't have to be *like* me. But I do think shared interests and goals have to be central, if only so we could respect, support and appreciate what is important in each others' lives. I'm very philosophical in this way - to genuinely love someone, to me, means you want them to have what makes them happy. So that kind of appreciate and support for what's important to the other person is pretty important.

But of course there's needs to be balance and a sustainable reciprocity. For example, music and writing is essential to me, so I would need a man who "got" that. He wouldn't have to be a writer or musician himself, maybe just someone who loves creativity and art enough to be open adn supportive to how I need my time and space to devote to those things. At the same time, he'd need to have sometime about himself that could balance that out, something that I could likewise appreciate about him - say, he's really good at sports, which is something I would admire greatly, and he needs time and space to participate in that.

Anyhow, I've rambled enough. Thanks for your thoughts Swerve.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 3277
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 15, 2007 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
*edited and reposted below*

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 7959
From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted January 15, 2007 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm...interesting conversation.

I've wondered about the "Am I shallow?" question myself. I think it is a Geminian thing. My ascendant is Gemini, and I can relate to much of what Gemini Nymph has said. I've also been interested in quite a wide variety of altogether different types of women in the last few years. I also have felt the need to be separate and detached, to never commit too much, and to always rule out the future possibilities early. I'd have said that I have a keen intuition about these things as well (though we should recognize that we can rationalize anything, but then on the Geminian other hand, "If it was meant to be, it would be." ).

I didn't get to see GemNymph's chart, so I can't comment on that.

Appearing shallow is a classic sign of not wanting to commit. If you wanted to be a part of the relationship you'd take it beyond a superficial level. You use that superficiality as a buffer, so that you can extract yourself easily if anything goes sour.

A "romantic" (for lack of a better term) relationship kind of relies on getting beyond supericiality. For people like us, who recognize that some romantic partners might see us as shallow, it takes an act of will to open up and go to a place more personal than we'd like to. That's the only way we're ever going to keep someone, though. When you find yourself doing it, GemNymph, I think it will be deliberate and not necessarily in the natural flow of how you'd normally handle the situation.

Another issue I see, that I relate well to, is the apparent gender duality. GemNymph and I are both masculine and feminine. Sexually we both feel our gender, but within the terms of a relationship we may find it easier to take the opposite gender's role in things. GemNymph probably needs to be with someone that allows her to have the male role in some areas, and she'd probably be best off if she was with a man that is comfortable in that exchange of roles (whether he's mentally aware of them or not).

The great thing, though, is the open-mindedness about who to be with. When you leave all your options open you welcome the surprises that may come your way. You should be able to more easily find that airy, mentally stimulating, friendly guy you've been looking for.

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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 3277
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 16, 2007 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting thoughts, AG.

I copied out these excerpts for another thread, and it occurred to me that they might have some pertinence to this thread as well:

from Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore:

"When people observe the ways in which the soul is manifesting itself, they are enriched rather than impoverished. They receive back what is theirs, the very thing they have assumed to be so horrible that it should be cut out and tossed away. When you regard the soul with an open mind, you begin to find messages that lie within the illness, the corrections that can be found in remorse and other uncomfortable feelings, and the necessary changes requested by depression and anxiety.

"Let me give some examples of how we might enrich rather than deprive ourselves in the name of emotional well-being.

"A thirty-year-old woman comes to me for therapy and confesses, 'I have a terrible time in relationships because i become too dependent. Help me be less dependent.'

"I am being asked to take some soul stuff away. I should go to my toolbox and take out a scalpel, extractor, and suction pump. Instead, on the principle of observance, and not inclined in any case to this kind of pilfering, I ask, 'What is it you find difficult about dependence?'

"'It makes me feel powerless. Besides, it isnt good to be too dependent. I should be my own person.'

"'How do you know when your dependency is too much?' I reply, still trying to speak for the sould expression of dependency.

"'When I don't feel good about myself.'

"'I wonder,' I continued in the same direction, 'if you could find a way to be dependent without feeling disempowered? After all, we all depend on each other every minute of the day.'

"And so the talk continues. The woman admits she has always simpy assumed that independence is good and dependence bad. I notice from the conversation that despite all her enthusiasm for independence, she doesnt seem to enjoy much of it in her life. She is identified with the dependency and sees liberation on the other side. She has also unconsciously bought into the prevailing notion that independence is healthy and that we should correct the soul when it shows some desire for dependence.

"This woman is asking me to help her get rid of the dependent face of her soul. But that would be a move against her soul. The fact that her dependency is making itself felt doesnt mean it should be bludgeoned or surgically removed; it may be asserting itself because it needs attention. Her heroic championing of independence might be a way of avoiding and repressing the strong need of something in her to be dependent. I try offering some words of dependence that don't have the connotations of wimpiness that seem to bother her.

"'Dont you want to be attached to people, learn from them, get close, rely on friendships, get advice from someone you repsect, be part of a community where people need each other, find intimacy with someone that is so delicious you can't live without it?'

"'Of course,' she says. 'Is that dependence?'

"'It sounds like it to me,' I reply, 'and like everything else, you can't have it without its shadows: its neediness, inferiority, submission and loss of control.'

"I had the feeling this woman, as seems often the case, was avoiding intimacy and friendship by focusing these qualities into a caricature of excessive dependency. At times we live these caricatures, thinking we are being masochistically dependent, when what we actually are doing is avoiding deep involvement with people, society, and live in general.

"Observing what the soul is doing and hearing what it is saying is a way of 'going with the symptom'. The temptation is to compensate, to be drawn toward the opposite of what is presented. A person fully identified with dependency thinks that health and happiness lies in the achievement of independence. But thar move into opposites is deceptive. Oddly, it keeps the person in the same problem, only from the opposite side. The wis for independence maintains the same split. A homeopathis move, going with what is presented rather tan against it, is to learn how to be dependent in a way that is satisfying and not so extreme as to split dependency off from independence."

...

"Often care of the soul means not taking sides when there is a conflict at a deep level. It may be necessary to stretch the heart wide enough to embrace contradiction and paradox.

"A man in his fifties came to me once and told me with considerable embarrassment that he had fallen in love.

"'I feel stupid,' he said, 'like an adolescent.'

"I hear this often, that love arouses the adolescent. Anyone familiar with the history of art and literature knows that from the Greeks on down love has been portrayed as an untamable teenager.

"'Oh, you have something against this adolescent?'

"'Am I ever going to grow up?' he asked in frustration.

"'Maybe not,' I said. 'Maybe there are things in you that will never grow up, maybe they shouldn't grow up. Doesnt this sudden influx of adolescence make you feel young, energetic and full of life?'

"'Yes,' he said, 'and also silly, immature, confused and crazy.'

"'But that's adolescence,' I responded, 'It sounds to me like the Old Man in you is berating the Youth. Why make being a grown up the supreme value? Or, maybe I should ask, who in you is claiming that maturity is so important? It's that Old Man, isn't it?'

"I wanted to speak for the figure who was being judged and attacked. This man had to find enough space in him to allow both the Old Man and the Youth to have a place, to speak to each other and over time, maybe over his entire lifetime, to work out some degree of reconciliation. It takes more than a lifetime to resolve such conflicts. In fact, the conflict itself is creative and perhaps should never be healed. By giving each figure its voice, we let the soul speak and show itself as it is, not as we wish it would be. By defending the adolescent, being careful not to take sides against the mature figure, I showed my interest in his soul, and the man had an opportunity to find a way to contain this archetypal conflict of youth and age, maturity and immaturity. In the course of such a debate, the soul becomes more complex and spacious."


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Heart--Shaped Cross
Knowflake

Posts: 3277
From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
Registered: Aug 2004

posted January 16, 2007 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
I'm just not even going to respond to that post.

That is your prerogative. I find it oddly convenient, especially for someone who usually takes great pleasure in putting people in their place, when she has even a leg to stand on.

quote:
You want to *dictate* to me what I'm thinking, doing and feeling to conform to your interpretation of my chart,

LOL, I am dictating nothing. I suggested some possibilities. You seem to think that you are always aware of your motives, and, if you havent thought of it and suggested it yourself, it cannot possibly apply. I made some suggestions which would require you to take a different view of yourself for a minute and consider other possibilities. I did not dictate at any point. I suggested alternative possibilities, and, at one point, I did flatly disagree with you (which is not the same as dictating). You said, "If it acts like an aspect, it is an aspect," and I said, basically, "If there are other aspects, which are both closer and more dynamic, which can account for the same behavior, then there is no need to go looking for 'accidental' aspects to account for the behavior." This is a rational, scientific argument, making use of the known laws of astrology. If either of us is stretching those laws of interpretation in order to make them conform with their pet theories, it is you. You are looking at a 5' trine to explain things which are just as easily explained by a 3' opposition! Am I wrong? If so, let's discuss it.

quote:
... rather than listening and being reciprocal to what I'm saying and looking to how that may translate into my chart.

I am listening to what you are saying. I did not disregard what you said about your predilection for peculiar friends. I heard it, and then looked at your chart. I found something different from what you found, and I did it by applying standard astrological interpretations, without overlooking perfectly fitting aspects, or stretching the imagination to accommodate a superpowered five degree trine. Isnt this why you posted your chart in the first place? To receive a second opinion? Now you disregard a second opinion which is clearly more plausible than your own. Why? Does it embarrass you too much to admit when you are mistaken? (Notice, this is a question, not a statement.)

quote:
I find that a little insulting and pretentious of you.

Do you find it insulting and pretentious every time someone suggests that you may be mistaken?

quote:
I mean, you must not have a very high opinion of me as an astrologer in my right if you think I wouldn't notice that.

Um, I dont even know you. Poor astrologers are all over the place. Am I to assume that you must not be one of them, because you are "Gemini Nymph"? Clearly, you did overlook something, if you think that hard aspects between venus and neptune, or the ruler of the 11th house and the ascendant could not account for peculiar friendships and attractions. Does that make you a poor astrolger? What do you think?

quote:
You did that in the first post, and I played nice while stood my ground. I didn't call you on that. But you had to try it again. So I'm calling you on it now.

Okay, so now you've lined up several sentences in a row making accusations and discussing your emotional reactions and internal decision-making process, without offering a single particular instance to support your objections. If you are going to bother saying this much, why not bother referring to my offense directly, rather than saying "I am not going to respond", and then proceeding to respond passive-aggressively, making sweeping accusations and then referring to my alleged offense as "that" and "it"?

quote:
You're an Aqua moon - I definitely get that.

Wow. Way to pigeon-hole me. I also have Aquarius intercepted in the 1st house, and Uranus closely conjunct my Venus, Midheaven, and SUN!!! But, being the astrologer you are, I'm sure it goes without saying that you noticed all of that.

quote:
I'm sure you feel you're right on target and will dissect my every post and twist my every word until I relent and say "Yes, you're right." But frankly, your emphatic insistence that I'm wrong or misconstruing your words doesn't make you right (or innocent of misconstruing my words).

I agree. What makes me right is the fact that you really did misunderstand me. No, I will not repeat that statement emphatically, in order to impress the truth of it upon you. But, I will offer logical evidence in support of it, as I have done. In order to do this, I will have to make use of the facts - that includes repeating what was said (i.e. "dissecting" your post), and drawing simple inferences from those facts.
Anyone with the power to reason can decide for themselves whether or not I am twisting your words. Now, here is what happened: You said that I said you ought to take a risk on men whom your gut tells you you are not interested in. I was not saying that. Whether you believe that or not is irrellevant, because i know what i said. What I said is that perhaps you ought to take a risk on guys who you feel may be too good for you. So clearly, you made an assumption when you told me that i was saying something which I was not saying. By your own admission, you have been advised many times to take risks on less than spectacular men, so, it is not difficult to see how you might assume that this was happening again.

quote:
You're just being pushy, in a very Scorpion passive-aggressive way that makes you sound sincere, caring and heart-felt (nice touch BTW). However, you're going to need a lot more than couple winking emoticons to fool me - you're being a bully and you need to back off.

You know, not everyone who tries to provoke your thinking, or contradict your assumptions, - and continues to do so (and to convey their considerable reasons for doing so) even after you have spoken once, or even twice, - is attempting to "bully" you. Sometimes the last word just isnt yours to have. Here is fair warning: Unless I get bored, or lose faith in your ability to ever understand me, I will continue to respond to your assumptions and misunderstandings as long as you continue to assume and misunderstand. I believe there are many layers of misunderstanding and bull--- to sift through before we can really get to the heart of most matters, and i am willing to do the sifting. I realize that most people are not as tenacious or concerned with getting at the truth as Scorpios, and that they would rather "agree to disagree", and walk away, but that doesnt fly with me. I think you are wrong, and I will say so, even if you continue to object, perhaps because you find it easier to act offended and call me a "bully" than to respond to my actual points (which most likely would entail either admitting that you are wrong, or weaving an intricate web of back-peddling and subterfuge).

I have taken pains to show that my thoughts are speculative and provisional. I do not know you. I have not spent hours studying your chart. I just offered a few thoughts which may or may not be intuitively accurate. There is nothing disingenuous in that.

I make no secret of my fondness for spirited conversation. I am a uniquely provocative person. I am not twisting your words, but probing for possible realities which may or may not be suggested by your words. I use words like "maybe" and "perhaps", not to get your goat or to conceal my hasty judgements, but, to honestly express my awareness of the fact that what I am suggesting may or may not be applicable.

I speak in very precise, stylistic, and provocative prose, and, at times, it can appear self-righteous. But those who know me, or take the time to listen, are of the unanimously different opinion (although they might agree to call me a wise-ass, from time to time). Because I am open to many levels of possibility and subtlety, I intend for my words to suggest mutliple interpretations and shades of meaning. I do not imagine that this is especially subversive, but, rather, it is in fact meant to be fairly obvious to the astute reader. You call it pushy, but, if the suggestions I have offered do not apply to you, then i see no reason for you to take them personally (i am not saying there is no reason, but that i myself cannot see one), and if they do apply to you, perhaps (again, just a speculation) you ought to be thanking me for putting them squarely before your eyes? If they apply to you, they will indeed be poignant, and if not, you may the more easily discard them. I would only hope that you would not feel that I had entirely wasted your time.

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