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Author Topic:   Sociopaths. Are they empty shells?
silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted November 27, 2003 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
I was thinking about sociopaths or people who have anti-social disorder. They are said to have no concience and no feelings. That being said; firstly, what do you guys thinks would be the state of humanity without the spirit involved. Let us opperate under the assumption that the body would be able to operate. Do you think that the spirit lends the body all of it's "good" (note the quotations around the word good) qualities or that the body contains goodness of it's own.

I ask because I was thinking that if the psychiatric community is correct, then what is going on with sociopaths? Are there spirits being subdued, if that is possible? Have their spirits left for some reason or something and they are just empty shells? Again operating under the assumption that the body may operate without the spirit, or the entire spirit if you will. Or maybe not operating under that assumption if you like. What do guys think?
Anywhoo, I would have to do some more research into anti-social disorder (the new description for being a sociopath) to get my fact straight and look at new findings and opinions on their psyches (sp?) but I would like to talk about this with you guys if you have opinions on the subject.

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"Get some Love in your groove, just get hip to Forgive"-Michael Franks

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StarLover33
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posted November 28, 2003 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarLover33     Edit/Delete Message
I think their hearts are just behind a concrete wall, and they need some kind of dynomite to break them free. I don't think the Spirit ever leaves not even in the worst cases.

-StarLover

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dafremen
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posted November 28, 2003 04:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
The spirit is consumed by its "selfness". Outside of the All, there is no IS. The sociopath is like this. Consumption closed in on itself, just as the dragon cannot offer a kiss once it has swallowed its own tail. There is a point beyond which only the Creator can offer hope of redemption.

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silverbells
Knowflake

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From: maryland
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posted November 28, 2003 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
What about people who exhibit sociopathic tendencies from a very young age and no one can see why? How could a young child (the nature of children taken into consideration) hide it's heart so very early especially when there is no "perceptible" offence?

Do you think that the spirit would come into the body at birth, consumed by it's "selfness"?
Also, have you two ever read any books by Sylvia Brown "the pychic", she comes on the Montell Williams show every Wednesday now, I think? She claims that some people who commit suicide or do other things or something come right back into the flesh without having the option of rest in-between lifetimes. I think that she claims that some of these people are sociopaths, I think.

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dafremen
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posted November 28, 2003 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
What are sociopathic, excessively materialistic or addiction prone behaviors but heavier spiritual burdens?

It seems that often the greater the reward waiting behind the veil, the greater the weight of that veil.

The road to spiritual awakening isn't the lottery, after all; a buck won't get you a ticket or the same winning chance as everyone else. We each have our spiritual burdens to bear and our obstacles to overcome. This could be from birth, this could be as a result of upbringing.

We should help where we can, where we are called to, at the very least, taking great pains never to increase the weight of our brothers and sisters respective burdens.

Such could only serve to increase the weight of our own.

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted November 30, 2003 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
Yea, but daf, I have never heard of a sociopath having a change of heart or being repentent. They don't seem to have signs of a conscience, that is one of their characteristics. They abuse with no detectable remorse.
What are you saying?
That abusing without remorse is a spiritual burden? Is that your real opinion?

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dafremen
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posted December 01, 2003 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
Imagine going through life without love.

daf

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted December 01, 2003 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
Ahhhhh. Ok.
With the added debt of taking people's lives? Is it an added debt?


I don't know, the sociopaths don't really seem to care one way or the other. Where is the lesson? Where is the realisation?
I think something about glorifying the flesh through the spirit (among other things), but if the flesh never feels remorse or feels anything for that matter....?
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"Get some Love in your groove, just get hip to Forgive"-Michael Franks

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sesame
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From: Brisbane, QLD, Oz
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posted December 01, 2003 09:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sesame     Edit/Delete Message
I think Karma overrides everything. If someone is remorsless, then they won't learn through remorse, but some other "language".

I'll give an example of something that happened the other day. I was driving along when I saw an Ambulance in my rear view. I indicated and pulled over to let it pass. Then I tried to get back into the lane, but every car behind me didn't let me back! I waited for like six cars bafore there was a gap. This isn't the first time the has happened, but last time I quickly drove out and almost collided with someone who was trying to race around me.

Anyway, in this situation, I waited patiently. I was driving along when I noticed in front EVERY car that overtook me was waiting at the lights. This intersection had two lanes, and shortly after formed into one. Well, I had an absolutely BEAUTIFUL moment when I drove past them ALL, and then drove smoothly through the now-green light. It was awesome! My GF got annoyed with me gloating about it all the way home, but I couldn't resist!

I believe God has that ability to just teach people and MAKE them understand. One of my key things in life is to ALWAYS try to give out positivity, because you never know when you'll need it back. The question is whether sociopaths will get it back if they have not given before? What if they had great lives last life, and were very charitable, but made very bad choices before there deaths? Or lives before that one? They could have beautiful things coming to them - and they may even snap out of there "coma".

Heaps of Love,
Dean.

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Live Life and Love Like Doves!
My numerology program based on "Star Signs" by Linda Goodman
Logically Magical Logic is Magically Logical Magic! (and vice versa!)

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Randall
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posted December 02, 2003 12:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Cool story, Dean!

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted December 02, 2003 05:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
Maybe I shouldn't laugh about it cause I never know when my turn will come and it's really not nice, but I love feeling like I'm stickin' it to people like that. They are acting like jerks and then they get to feel like it...YES!

Perhaps, (what you said Dean) but if being a sociopath is a karmic death, those had to be some hella bad choices made. But I suppose that just because you have some serious "negative" karma doesn't mean that it erases the good that you have coming to you, you could get it later. I've never heard of anyone snapping out of anti-social disorder, that would be a prescendent. If that happened man, I would probably definately consider that being a sociopath is some kind of "negative" karmic retribution. After I thought about it and vibed on it of course.

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dafremen
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posted December 05, 2003 11:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
Perhaps the focus shouldn't be on the sociopaths themselves, but on those whose lives and Paths are affected by them. We are, after all, only instruments of the Almighty. Isn't it conceivable that these "walking shells" are, in fact, playing a necessary role in the lives of those with whom they come in contact? Service performed? Karmic payment rendered?

(In addition, never doubt that beneath the layers and layers of dirt, lies a spirit, screaming to be released.)

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oldephebe
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From: philly pa USA
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posted December 07, 2003 02:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldephebe     Edit/Delete Message
Silverbells - I do not know if I yet have the wisdom, the enlightenment to answer your question. I think to consider a soul without empathy..is to look upon evil. It shakes the soul to look upon such a being. Someone who is irredeemable, intately evil. I have looked upon several in my life. I wonder if sociopathy is a kind of atavistic echo. A kind of primordial indice of what we used to be. The absence of empathy, the mouth curled in cruelty. The dead eyes, without a flicker of humanity, or empathy. The posts by everyone on this page has given me much ruminative fodder. It is difficult for us to contemplate such a thing. Those of us shaped in love. The bright ember of Eternity, of the Source thriving upon what was bequeathed to us. I guess it is the antithesis of those souls that are as close to perfect compassion as the Old testament prophet caught up into heaven, because of his guiless heart. This an excellent estuary of contemplation.

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trying not to appear spiritually barren

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted December 07, 2003 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
Hello oldephebe, Welcome to Lindaland
I have always wondered about the "cold dead eyes". How could someone have cold dead eyes? I have seen it but if eyes are the windows to the soul, then what does that indicate? I have heard about people on certain drugs who appear that way, so perhaps it is a visual sign of, not just psychotropic alteration but also a sign of a consequent spiritual "alteration" of some kind. With that in mind, perhaps it is possible for the sociopaths to snap out of it as dafremen suggested; like the "cold eyes" of the drug affected wear off.

However, I don't agree with anything or anyone however evil, being irredeemable. That is immpossible as that would mean that they are beyond the reaches of LOVE and that is never possible, ever.

But, a slight bit off of the beaten track: do you think that humans evolved from "lower life forms"? And from what you said it seems that you think that humans were all "sociopaths" at some point. If I am correct, then when do you think that this state of affairs ended and why?

So, are you a writer, oldephebe or a poet?

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oldephebe
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From: philly pa USA
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posted December 08, 2003 12:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldephebe     Edit/Delete Message
Well, I think that yes there are states of sentience, or lack thereof that are a result of direct and intense pharmacological intervention. Someone fumbling through a fugue, frozen in amber, slogging through an autistic aug. But I am speaking of the person who is fully sentient, fully aware of his/her actions. A mind not tainted by alchohol, drugs or hallucinogenic fauna. Only the most horrific examples of tortue or abuse in the fullness of ones innocence could reasonably be thought to constitute an ameliorating or partially exculpatory factor. Just clean, purely distilled evil. Someone who willfully places themself out of the range of Love. I will not ascend this hypothetical dais to argue the merits of sociopathy, the euphamistic reconciliation of hell's heart opening wide in such a being.
Nor am I indulging in some sort of rhetorical dalliance, most of the time, I do not frame my arguments, my words faciley or disingenuously. Nor will I question the sincerity or conviction that shapes your argument. Love's beacon, the light that burns all night at the end of the dock strikes like badly bruised steel against obdurate rock when it encounters a soul so constituted. writer or poet? hmm Well we all have our arguments to make. I am... making mine.

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trying not to appear spiritually barren

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oldephebe
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From: philly pa USA
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posted December 08, 2003 01:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldephebe     Edit/Delete Message
I do not believe, nor meant to infer or suggest that humans as presently constituted were ever the modern equivelent of what most folk recognize as the pathology of socipathy. I do believe that in our more primitive states we possessed the implacable, predatory drive that ensured our survival, this primordial predatory imperative when wed to an incipient intelligence combined to shape a proto-sociopathy, an accident of evolution, and environment. The assertion of my argument does not neccessarily, or objectively negate anyone else's contentions in this cloud of conjecture.

Maybe I won't throw my arms firmly around your argument but it is an intriguing point of view and not wholly without merit.

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trying not to appear spiritually barren

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted December 10, 2003 01:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message
Hi oldephebe. I hope that you weren't offended, you seem offended.
Hopefully no.
So you do not think that Love Is The All-Conquering?
What was my intriguing argument that you wouldn't embrace? Was it the Love argument?
Out of curiosity, what is your sign?

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oldephebe
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From: philly pa USA
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posted December 10, 2003 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldephebe     Edit/Delete Message
No Silverbells, refutation or qualified disagreement does not neccessarily equate with offense..just a little different take. Why should I be offended? We are arguing. Contention and argument is what allows us to tell ourselves to one another. Let us be secure in meeting the passion and power of another's words. Let us be open Let us be open to another's words. Confrontation, argument all have these negative associations. What's wrong with standing in the gale and allowing another's words to wash over us, even possibly expand us, instead of clinging obdurately to ones whittled down plank of reason or argument. I can't really add anything to my words on this subject..I hope I was clear. What's wrong with freeing one another to hear our advesary? Umm..I do think the power of Love is all conquering to the extent that a person allows herself/himself to be conquered by It. You've got some intriguing things to say and a real sincere, intelligent manner of relating them.

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trying not to appear spiritually barren

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oldephebe
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From: philly pa USA
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posted December 10, 2003 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oldephebe     Edit/Delete Message
Cancer - hence all of the poet poised on a premonitory posturing..drain me of all the drama already..sheesh!

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trying not to appear spiritually barren

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silverbells
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From: maryland
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posted December 10, 2003 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message

Good! A lot of people start to take it personally when you disagree with them. They say that they are open to discussion but then they hit a wall and start to get personal (meaning insulting).
Well...I am a Libra and revel in Lively Discussion.

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dafremen
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posted December 11, 2003 08:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dafremen     Edit/Delete Message
s.b. is just plain lively! And getting in a debate with da bells is, as Linda put it, like trying to punch a balloon.

daf

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silverbells
Knowflake

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From: maryland
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posted July 21, 2004 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for silverbells     Edit/Delete Message

Where is oldephebe anyway?

I don't know that I have any more thoughts on this subject. Maybe someone else has something to say.
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Get some love in your groove, just get hip to forgive... - Michael Franks

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DeepIYM
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From: Denver, Co,
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posted July 22, 2004 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DeepIYM     Edit/Delete Message
The Spirit? well I think the Spirit is the genuine connection between the supra-consciousness, or soul, or S-elf. If the spirit leaves to go wonder... You just have a body, and you are your soul. But your soul is your soul, you can not be your soul unless you are connected. It could be a question of Past lives as well, but who knows?

It is a disconnectivity to your higher S-elf

My thoughts anyway

RIII

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