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Author Topic:   A person who combats rage, anger, curiosity and other negative qualities...
SunChild
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posted August 15, 2012 03:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"A person who combats rage, anger, curiosity and other negative qualities, is first of all removing hindrances that walled up his soul. Ever and again must this effort be repeated. A clairvoyant person can evaluate to what extent the delicate soul organs are emerging.

When human utterances have lost their edge and have become kind and filled with understanding for fellowmen, the spiritual organ located in the vicinity of the larynx is awakened. It takes long practice, however, before a person becomes aware of this himself. It took millions of years for the physical eye to develop in man, from tiny pin-points to early beginnings of a lens to the complicated structure of the eye. The soul eye does not take as long. It requires several months in one, longer in another person. One must have patience.

The moment when these delicate soul structures first begin to perceive comes to everybody sooner or later. That is, if a person continues the exercises and particularly if he develops certain virtues, which sometimes the hardships of life itself can develop.

There are three virtues in particular that must be developed that nearly turn man into a clairvoyant. Only they must he practiced with the necessary intensity and emphasis. They are: Self-confidence paired with humility, self-control paired with gentleness, and presence of mind coupled with perseverance.

There are the great levers of spiritual development.. The three first-mentioned virtues, however, will lead to dreadful vices if they are not each coupled with the three other virtues, humility, gentleness and perseverance." -Rudolf Steiner, The Inner Development of Man

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Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let bitterness steal your sweetness. Take pride that even though the rest of the world may disagree, you still believe it to be a beautiful place. -Kurt Vonnegut.

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PhoenixFire
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posted August 15, 2012 06:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PhoenixFire     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you know of any good exercises for combating anger & rage?

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juniperb
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posted August 15, 2012 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
There are three virtues in particular that must be developed that nearly turn man into a clairvoyant. Only they must he practiced with the necessary intensity and emphasis. They are: Self-confidence paired with humility, self-control paired with gentleness, and presence of mind coupled with perseverance.


Wonderful!

I would add a quote from What the Seeker Needs that corresponds to Steiners essay.

If you wish to find the truth and have God/Allah's pleasure and support in it, then avoid being negative and control your temper and anger. If you cannot stop anger, at least do not show it. When you do this, you will please God/Allah and disappoint the devil. You will begin to educate your ego and straighten and shorten your path. Anger is a result and a sign of the ego not being under control, like a mean wild animal untied and uncaged. As you hold your temper, it is as if you put a bridle on its head and barriers around it. You begin then to tame it, teach it how to behave, to obey, so that it cannot hurt others or itself (because it is a part of you).
When this discipline reflects from you, revealing someone who can control his temper and hold his anger, your adversary will be calmed. You will not be reacting to his provocations. You will not be punishing him or responding to his negativity, but ignoring it. This is more effective than punishing him. He may be led to see the reality of his acts, to realize what is fair, and to confess his faults.

What the Seeker Needs
Ibn Arabi, 1200


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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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charmainec
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posted August 16, 2012 01:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmainec     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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quote:
Remember, love can conquer the influences of the planets....It can even eliminate karma.

Linda Goodman

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Jovian
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posted August 17, 2012 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jovian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"A person who combats rage, anger, curiosity and other negative qualities..."

"Combatting" qualities only makes them persist. What you resist, persists. So-called negative traits will work themselves out over time...over lifetimes! No need to beat them out of yourself in one lifetime. Seekers are hard enough on themselves. ...What is time? What is the hurry? There is "time" for everything under the sun. Trust the goodness of the natural transformation and unfolding of your unique soul, in its right time.

As well, you cannot chase after clairvoyant skills in and of themselves and have them come to any valid use. Sooner or later, the ego will always distort the results.

This level of understanding is just one point along the long path of a human experience. ...Many lifetimes to go, after this point... for Steiner, Leadbeater and Besant as well!

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 17, 2012 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a real love/hate view of Steiner, on the one hand I admire his political savviness, yet philosophically I find many of his views abominable lol...

quote:
A person who combats rage, anger, curiosity and other negative qualities..

Thats a one way ticket to a fraking Gulag but since you have peace in your soul, enjoy your stay Mr Steiner...

Rage, Anger & Curiosity were a huge part of the French Revolution that he so admired, how he managed to do a philosophical 180... is beyond me!

Sry, just my opinion!


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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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shura
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posted August 18, 2012 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wonderful excerpt, Sunchild!
Juni, you know I love that one. Had it taped to fridge at one point! I've found that Ibn Arabi and Steiner are in perfect agreement. And no small surprise.

quote:
"Combatting" qualities only makes them persist.

Yes Steiner did not advocate simply suppressing or ignoring the lower emotions. They must be carefully, honestly observed, untangled, worked through. As Linda Goodman advised, Steiner is for the advanced student. Beyond his subtle, complex spiritual teachings, many of his lectures are poorly translated from the original German, making things all the more difficult. I began studying Anthroposopy twenty years ago. It was a mistake. I wasn't ready and misunderstand much more than I properly absorbed.

Sunchild is a different breed. I've watched her 'get' things here at LL that flew high over my head at her age. I have total faith in the younger generations; I see the gods sending down the big guns to 'combat' the encroaching darkness, and I'm so humbled. And grateful!

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 03:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Too bad we cant have Steiners's interpretation of the mystery teachings from Gospel of Thomas
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html

quote:
16. Jesus said, "Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war.

Run Demiurge Run!

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2012 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steiner would not take Jesus` parables/sayings literal. The Christ was a Mystic and spoke accordingly to his Disciples.

The Gospel of Thomas is one of great misunderstandings of the literal mind set. It is unfortunate because they miss the Intentions of the Christ completely

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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well from examining many of the sayings its seems relatively obvious that his teachings are in a stark contrast to Judaism/Christianity, to the point where the teacher feels such will breed conflict, leaving the war aspect to IMO, to have a spiritual connotation...

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2012 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
such will breed conflict, leaving the war aspect

In a sense yes A conflict of the nafs/ego. A battle which rages in the imperfect human.

One really don`t believe Jesus was in the desert fighting a literal devil/satan do you?

No, he was fighting his ego/nafs ie the lower self often times refered to as the devil/ satan aspect.

Remember he was speaking to his Initiates, his Disciples.

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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:

One really don`t believe Jesus was in the desert fighting a literal devil/satan do you?


Haha... Yea sure, flaming swords and knuckle dusters lol...

Its seems unlikely that the Jesus from Christianity is the same Jesus who instructed the author of the Gospel of Thomas, otherwise its hard to understand why it wouldn't be the Principia of Christian doctrine... oh wait Lol, it would be heretical!

That's probably another tread... Ive already started to warp this one lol

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2012 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Its seems unlikely that the Jesus from Christianity is the same Jesus who instructed the author of the Gospel of Thomas, otherwise its hard to understand why it wouldn't be the Principia of Christian doctrine... oh wait Lol, it would be heretical!

Hence, Christianity takes different legs

Fundies have the squeeky wheel of fear and that gets the press.

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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by juniperb:
Hence, Christianity takes different legs

Fundies have the squeeky wheel of fear and that gets the press.


Yea and some of those legs are on real shaky ground lol...

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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shura
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posted August 18, 2012 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Too bad we cant have Steiners's interpretation of the mystery teachings from Gospel of Thomas

Indeed.

Although Steiner did say that the four Gospels contained everything necessary for the initiate provided they were read with spiritual understanding Hopefully the Gospel of Thomas and other apocrypha will assist in illuminating the four Gospels, as I believe they can and should, rather than add to the prevailing confusion.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shura:
Although Steiner did say that the four Gospels contained everything necessary for the initiate

My opinion of Steiner just dropped four points... LOL


------------------
~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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juniperb
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posted August 18, 2012 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shura:
Although Steiner did say that the four Gospels contained everything necessary for the initiate provided they were read with spiritual understanding Hopefully the Gospel of Thomas and other apocrypha will assist in illuminating the four Gospels, as I believe they can and should, rather than add to the prevailing confusion.


quote:
Originally posted by shura:
Although Steiner did say that the four Gospels contained everything necessary for the initiate
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
My opinion of Steiner just dropped four points... LOL


Lei, tsk tsk;
Half in context is a fundie habit.

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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Lei_Kuei
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posted August 18, 2012 05:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A cheap shot I confess, but I couldn't resist

I commend your call out hehe

In truth if one had a box of rocks and it was read/viewed with spiritual understanding.... one could learn alot

I do love Steiner's Politics... But what did Madame Blavatsky stick in his pipe!?


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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Randall
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posted August 19, 2012 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steiner is over my head.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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shura
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posted August 19, 2012 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
My opinion of Steiner just dropped four points... LOL


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shura
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posted August 19, 2012 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Steiner is over my head.


I often feel the same.

Again, not for the beginner. imo Most problems arise when he is taken out of context. eg Steiner was a racist, Steiner was a satanist, blah blah. Even to say "not for the beginner, only for the advanced student" sounds elitist, doesn't it? Another misunderstanding as it is not so much a direct test of spiritual advancement as it a question of perseverance and practice. "A little learning is a dangerous thing" applies well to his work. More than anything Steiner requires a flexible mind. And that's a rarity, isn't it?

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SunChild
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posted August 20, 2012 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well said Shura and thank you for your sentiments.

Thank you for posting that quote from Ibn Arabi Juni, I have hardly been exposed to enough of this beauty, I love how everything corresponds.

I've been meaning to come back to this thread. So much on my mind lately, would love to participate in this thoughtful discussion as soon as I can.

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Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let bitterness steal your sweetness. Take pride that even though the rest of the world may disagree, you still believe it to be a beautiful place. -Kurt Vonnegut.

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Randall
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posted September 18, 2012 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*bump*

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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