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T O P I C R E V I E WtikkunKerouac was a pisces and so much a sacrifical lamb. I loved him. Here is a little tidbit for you all. ALL the beats-Keruac and Cassady and Ginsberg had Mars-Uranus aspects. Not really surprising,but it explains a lot.I like this little gem from Jack" for life is Holy and every moment is precious"Jack lived a sacrificial life.He was not only a pisces,but a 12 in chaldean numerology another neptune connection (i.e. The sacrifice in tarot)neptune is about ecstatic sacrifice.the last joy that life affords the wise. A last letting go,a compasssionate,caring dyonisian bridge to the divine.Jack sacrificed himself into the endless eternity of love.Loving life, he could act no other way. life itself is a sacrifice of the divine. To sacrifice is to be alive. Life is the eternal sacrifice of divine love. Get in step with this and you are ecstacy itself!!!katatonicwhat WAS his mars uranus aspect? most of the wave of poets and musicians of the early to late 60's had mars conjunct uranus in gem or cancer i think, but kerouac was older, wasn't he?MyVirgoMaskKerouac was also a wonderful liar. That's what made 'On The Road' so good. I don't think that's sacrificial, I think it's just clever. Neptune is also about illusion and delusion as much as it's about love and sacrifice.Katatonic, I didn't know he was older than the other guys on that scene at the time. The Mars/Uranus connection makes a lot of sense though. lovegoblinThis is interesting.I was reading an article that was comparing the works of kerouac to kurt cobain.In reality, both were VERY depressed people.Kerouac also very depressed.Keroac died early in life because of alcoholism and also lived with his mother until his death. Very strange character. I think the REAL person of who kerouac truly was different from the characted portrayed in "on the road." He became disillusioned with the "beat" writers. Also a political conservative-this really surprised me.Both Kurt and Kerouac were pisces. both sacrifical lambs? i don't know. katatonicborn 12 march 1922 (pisces dog) mars @ 10 sag square uranus @ 10 pisces - 14 MINUTES separating! also uranus opp moon...kurt cobain born 20 feb 1967 (pisces goat) venus opp uranus by 3 deg.MyVirgoMaskOh Jeeeeeeeez, Pisces goat....'nuff said mianfeiInteresting comparison. Both Cobain and Kerouac had very strong Virgo/Pisces oppositions, which may account for their susceptibility to alcoholism and drugs since these mutable signs are not likely to have the strength of will to control it.This mutable emphasis in both charts, along with the scarcity of fire and cardinal signs, may explain the desire and difficulty both had about avoiding fame: fame is not likely to be natural to people without fire or cardinal planetsWith Kerouac, there is also a Mars in Sagittarius that squares both his Virgo moon and Ascendant and his Pisces planets, most especially his Uranus which was opposite his Ascendant (opposite of Cobain). This Mars, opposite his Midheaven, suggests a man whose drives were very personal and aimed much more at familial relationships which, with this Mars being in Sagittarius, is very troublesome to achieve. A similar thing can perhaps be seen with Mars in Gemini in the chart of proto-hippie Catholic artist Eric Gill.sand“What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? - it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.” ― Jack Kerouac, On the Roadvertiver quote:Originally posted by sand:“What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? - it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.” ― Jack Kerouac, On the Roadariesdragon quote:Originally posted by sand:“What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? - it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.” ― Jack Kerouac, On the Road nice Gray quote:Originally posted by sand:“What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? - it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.” ― Jack Kerouac, On the RoadThis kinda prove my theory that most literary figures hailed as heroes, are overrated, because I've read more profound things inside a Hallmark card...As far as the Pisces association in all of this, I think that probably plays into it a bit with how Neptune is the ruling planet and associated with illusion and the ability to dazzle or mislead/confuse people. It makes perfect sense that a lot of the people heralded as being legendary in these fields despite the real ability to back that up, were Piscean or strongly Neptunian.Cobain wasn't a very good writer either, or singer, for that matter. Just because he expressed pain doesn't mean that in terms of execution, his work was great. Same for Kerouac. It reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons, where Lisa was competing in a singing competition and there were other kids there who were way better, but she managed to win because she intentionally chose to sing a song about her pet dying.Spellmaster257It was slightly disheartening reading the above message...anyway...Cobain and Kerouac's abilities had so much NOT to do with misleading people. It was their power to communicate that made them "legends". Prolific. It was their ability to relate to others who felt the same (or to make others feel so) on such an extreme level - their words like the high note in an opera which pierces the listener's soul.But, it also depended and still does depend on whether or not the listener is willing to appreciate the beauty of the high note - soak it in whether they can relate to the nature of the song or not; be willing to understand despite the fact.You can't blame the singer for your being one of the few who didn't shed a tear. Just as you can't blame the writer for that separate circumstance. The book is open - it's a matter of whether you are, too.Spellmaster257"Only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones that never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!""-Kerouac, On the RoadOne of my favorites. The beauty of it, to me, is that it says exactly how I felt about certain people I'm drawn to. My strange pattern of association. It's the relevance and the aesthetic of its wording that gets to me - creates a bond between me and the author. Because that's what writing (true art in any form, really) is all about: bonding. Communicating with another. Creating a thread from you to someone else based simply on transfigured emotion.<3Alabaster437 quote:Originally posted by Spellmaster257:It's the relevance and the aesthetic of its wording that gets to me - creates a bond between me and the author. Because that's what writing (true art in any form, really) is all about: bonding. Communicating with another. Creating a thread from you to someone else based simply on transfigured emotion.<3^^ thisHas anyone seen the movie yet? It'll be interesting to see how they adapted it, especially since it does lack a straightforward plot. We can pretty much agree that Sal was Piscean because he was essentially Kerouac's voice. Ginsberg/Carlo Marx was a Gemini, so maybe there is something to be said for mutable signs and the Beats.mianfei quote:Originally posted by Alabaster437: ^^ thisHas anyone seen the movie yet? It'll be interesting to see how they adapted it, especially since it does lack a straightforward plot. We can pretty much agree that Sal was Piscean because he was essentially Kerouac's voice. Ginsberg/Carlo Marx was a Gemini, so maybe there is something to be said for mutable signs and the Beats.Interesting thought. With the exception of Gemini, there can be an unworldly quality in all mutable types, who are more concerned with deep learning than with material accumulation or gain. (Gemini can bare a resemblance to the cardinal signs in its worldly nature, though expressed more through social interactions than through achievement).However, Ginsberg was a double Pisces (Moon and Ascendant) and he fits very well with the Piscean connection with the Beats, who were seeking mystical knowledge. He also had Mars conjunct Ascendant in Pisces - a very rare situation since Pisces is most infrequent sign for both Mars and (in the Northern Hemisphere) the Ascendant.Ginsberg’s Gemini Sun and Mercury with Neptune in the sixth house, however, would turn this down a different path from the Western spirituality of Kerouac and Gill.
I like this little gem from Jack
" for life is Holy and every moment is precious"
Jack lived a sacrificial life.He was not only a pisces,but a 12 in chaldean numerology another neptune connection (i.e. The sacrifice in tarot)
neptune is about ecstatic sacrifice.the last joy that life affords the wise. A last letting go,a compasssionate,caring dyonisian bridge to the divine.
Jack sacrificed himself into the endless eternity of love.
Loving life, he could act no other way. life itself is a sacrifice of the divine. To sacrifice is to be alive. Life is the eternal sacrifice of divine love. Get in step with this and you are ecstacy itself!!!
Katatonic, I didn't know he was older than the other guys on that scene at the time. The Mars/Uranus connection makes a lot of sense though.
I was reading an article that was comparing the works of kerouac to kurt cobain.
In reality, both were VERY depressed people.Kerouac also very depressed.Keroac died early in life because of alcoholism and also lived with his mother until his death. Very strange character. I think the REAL person of who kerouac truly was different from the characted portrayed in "on the road." He became disillusioned with the "beat" writers. Also a political conservative-this really surprised me.
Both Kurt and Kerouac were pisces. both sacrifical lambs? i don't know.
kurt cobain born 20 feb 1967 (pisces goat) venus opp uranus by 3 deg.
This mutable emphasis in both charts, along with the scarcity of fire and cardinal signs, may explain the desire and difficulty both had about avoiding fame: fame is not likely to be natural to people without fire or cardinal planets
With Kerouac, there is also a Mars in Sagittarius that squares both his Virgo moon and Ascendant and his Pisces planets, most especially his Uranus which was opposite his Ascendant (opposite of Cobain). This Mars, opposite his Midheaven, suggests a man whose drives were very personal and aimed much more at familial relationships which, with this Mars being in Sagittarius, is very troublesome to achieve. A similar thing can perhaps be seen with Mars in Gemini in the chart of proto-hippie Catholic artist Eric Gill.
quote:Originally posted by sand:“What is that feeling when you're driving away from people and they recede on the plain till you see their specks dispersing? - it's the too-huge world vaulting us, and it's good-bye. But we lean forward to the next crazy venture beneath the skies.” ― Jack Kerouac, On the Road
This kinda prove my theory that most literary figures hailed as heroes, are overrated, because I've read more profound things inside a Hallmark card...
As far as the Pisces association in all of this, I think that probably plays into it a bit with how Neptune is the ruling planet and associated with illusion and the ability to dazzle or mislead/confuse people. It makes perfect sense that a lot of the people heralded as being legendary in these fields despite the real ability to back that up, were Piscean or strongly Neptunian.
Cobain wasn't a very good writer either, or singer, for that matter. Just because he expressed pain doesn't mean that in terms of execution, his work was great. Same for Kerouac.
It reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons, where Lisa was competing in a singing competition and there were other kids there who were way better, but she managed to win because she intentionally chose to sing a song about her pet dying.
Cobain and Kerouac's abilities had so much NOT to do with misleading people. It was their power to communicate that made them "legends". Prolific. It was their ability to relate to others who felt the same (or to make others feel so) on such an extreme level - their words like the high note in an opera which pierces the listener's soul.
But, it also depended and still does depend on whether or not the listener is willing to appreciate the beauty of the high note - soak it in whether they can relate to the nature of the song or not; be willing to understand despite the fact.
You can't blame the singer for your being one of the few who didn't shed a tear. Just as you can't blame the writer for that separate circumstance. The book is open - it's a matter of whether you are, too.
-Kerouac, On the Road
One of my favorites. The beauty of it, to me, is that it says exactly how I felt about certain people I'm drawn to. My strange pattern of association.
It's the relevance and the aesthetic of its wording that gets to me - creates a bond between me and the author. Because that's what writing (true art in any form, really) is all about: bonding. Communicating with another. Creating a thread from you to someone else based simply on transfigured emotion.
<3
quote:Originally posted by Spellmaster257:It's the relevance and the aesthetic of its wording that gets to me - creates a bond between me and the author. Because that's what writing (true art in any form, really) is all about: bonding. Communicating with another. Creating a thread from you to someone else based simply on transfigured emotion.<3
^^ this
Has anyone seen the movie yet? It'll be interesting to see how they adapted it, especially since it does lack a straightforward plot. We can pretty much agree that Sal was Piscean because he was essentially Kerouac's voice. Ginsberg/Carlo Marx was a Gemini, so maybe there is something to be said for mutable signs and the Beats.
quote:Originally posted by Alabaster437: ^^ thisHas anyone seen the movie yet? It'll be interesting to see how they adapted it, especially since it does lack a straightforward plot. We can pretty much agree that Sal was Piscean because he was essentially Kerouac's voice. Ginsberg/Carlo Marx was a Gemini, so maybe there is something to be said for mutable signs and the Beats.
However, Ginsberg was a double Pisces (Moon and Ascendant) and he fits very well with the Piscean connection with the Beats, who were seeking mystical knowledge. He also had Mars conjunct Ascendant in Pisces - a very rare situation since Pisces is most infrequent sign for both Mars and (in the Northern Hemisphere) the Ascendant.
Ginsberg’s Gemini Sun and Mercury with Neptune in the sixth house, however, would turn this down a different path from the Western spirituality of Kerouac and Gill.
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