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T O P I C R E V I E WValus.YinMINE! hippichicki dunno...but, he has made me smile a time or two, his music has made me contemplate life a time or two, the jams have made me jam a time or two... his lucious looks have made me drool a time or two...he has contributed to my life as much as anybody else has.love em.mermaid26It's all about sparking the right kind of fire... which my guess would be that he accomplished this at least once, which may be all that it is required of one who inspires creativity.DeliveranceIValusOkay, Yin, just because you loved him first and just because your Sun is exactly conjunct his, and both your Ascendants are in Aquarius and your Mercuries are in Capricorn, and his Venus conjuncts your Moon... doesn't make him yours. It just makes him more yours than anybody else's. Deliverance..Valuslol, Deliverance,I've had similar reversals. The Jim Morrison of the early period,the rock-shaman on mushrooms and LSD,is a lot different from the lounge singerwho drank and sniffed coke later on.Valuslolkoiflower quote:"My son had a unique genius, which he expressed without compromise." Maybe if his father had said it sooner, he wouldn't have drank himself to death. So it goes. Jim was predispositioned to drinking. I don't think his father led him to drink. Jim had a roller coaster life brought on by fame, chicks, money, drugs. That's enough to seduce any young man into a hedonistic lifestyle.He had a realistic view on love/pain. But his behaviour was rash and he saw himself as intelligent. Sadly, his intelligence didn't protect him from making poor choices. His overdose was more powerful than the man.I love the 'Doors'. There's an element of haunting beauty and pain in their music.ValusWho knows, koi.I dont have Pluto tightly squaring my moon (in the 4th) and opposing my Ascendant, so, I can't pretend to know how difficult it was for him, or what all the factors (estranged family, conservative culture, etc.) were. I can only speculate. But Jim was definitely a creative genius, before he deteriorated completely. Was he Shakespeare? Not by a long shot. But he was definitely something. A shooting star.DeliveranceValus, Yes, he went through a weird metamorphosis from pin-up 'lizard king' to 'wild man-Jim' with the paunch & big beard (circa LA Woman). There was a definite change in his style, he became more blusey & husky later on....such a waste of talent.ValusAlcohol is f*cked.ValusStill, I have to be honest and admit,some of my favorite songs and lyricsare from the later period, but just a few.Peace FrogSpanish CaravanL'AmericaThose were all later, I think.DeliveranceAhhh Peace Frog, I love the way it slips into Blue Sunday. Not sure if Morrison Hotel was one of his later albums though.ValusMakes me think of Bob Dylan...Prolific trickster, rambler,crusader for the common man...What's he done in the past 40 yearsthat anybody thinks is comparableto what he did in the 60's?But nevermind that, I was saying....Dylan skated over the surfaces,swam and slipped and cleverly sprung,and hopped the fence with his guitar, etc.But he didn't go deep.He was so clever, he didn't have to.He could stay above water a say a lot.But was any Dylan concert reminiscentof a Dionysian orgy, or a shamanic ritual?Where was the Moon?Where was the Fire?Both had exceptional visions.But Jim felt them.I think he meant them,more than Dylan ever did,with his noncommital wit.Just my thoughts.I love them both.The dynamo that burnt out,and the beacon that faded away.GypseeWindlol! If we have to discount the drink/drug adled hedonistic rock stars, we are dismissing a huge part of Rock and Roll history.Unfortunately it comes with the territory.Jim screwed up alot, no doubt, but he was a poet, and THE front man of our lifetimes.That is accomplishing more than most of us could ever dream of..And, I don't think there was a doubt about his and Pam's love.Just remember times were so different.It was about free love and all that.She was not innocent either. She had a years long affair with an Italian Count. (I think he was Italian)Anyway, YIN!!!!!!!! I think in the spirit of friendship you should reconsider. I am older and therefore have loved him longer, PLUS you have Valus, your very own poet, Jim should be mine. Or we could act like they did then and just share! *Did you watch that documentary on PBS, V? It just aired the other night. Johnny Depp narrarated. It was called, 'When You're Strange' I believe. Anyway, after watching bits and peices of that, I wanted to start a Jim thread! LL sychnronicity (sp?) strikes again!GypseeWindOhhh, Jim's quotes are so SAG! That is very cool. I don't know if he was into Astrology. I know he got into some Wiccan beliefs with Patrica Kenealy, and they had a Wiccan wedding, but I don't recall ever hearing him mention astrology.Guess it doesn't matter much, he was pretty true to his sun!ValusHey Gypsee,There's a recording where he's talking to the audience, saying how he's a Sagittarius, but that he doesn't really believe that stuff. Not sure where I heard it. I think it was before they played "Waiting For the Sun".Yeah, I saw that thing with Depp, and that's what got me to start this thread, but I didn't know it was a new or recent special. For some reason, I thought it was older.I understand what you're saying, "Jim was THE frontman of our lifetimes", but I've actually been lucky enough to encounter and dialogue with people like Jim, and, while they may not be stars (or have three considerably-more-grounded bandmates to take care of the logistics -- and carry them while they writhe in a half-conscious state on the stage), they've had a more profound and direct effect on me than Jim had. Kurt Cobain is another story, but, then, that was my generation, so... Maybe I do see your point. (And I won't test your patience by comparing these two comets. That would be a disservice to them both.)The rock star is in a peculiar class, though. Especially when his/her success depends on a collaborative effort. Had Jim merely been a lone, self-published poet (or a crooner without a band) we probably never would have heard of him. I suppose he was lucky, and so were we (if only to have him), to live in an era where performance, music, showmanship, and spectacle take presidence over the "purity" of the written word. But, then, maybe if the written word were more valued, Jim's poetry would have been enough. It's curious to wonder what effect his "idol", Rimbaud, would have had in a time like ours. Maybe he would have been a rock god. But I doubt it.GypseeWindYep. Jim was a very shy guy, from what I've read.I guess it took him a long time to even face the audience when he sang.I think that is more prevalent than what we know of, and that is where the "liquid courage" comes in.I believe in my heart that Jim would of been content to be only a poet or a film maker, which is what he was studying in college.Clearly there was going to be some kind of creative career for him, but I believe that Ray may have seen a cash cow when looking at Jim, and once he got him on stage that was all she wrote.No doubt Ray was was the backbone. There has to be one person keeping stuff together, you know?But, without Jim, I doubt Ray would of ever been more than a club musician.Just MHO, of course.And yeah, same with Kurt, different genres and all that, but each in his way possibly too sensitive for this world, and the industry that ate them alive.That's show business, so they say.Sad but true.As far as the documentary, I believe it was just a revamped version of the same stuff we've seen and heard about for years, and since Johnny narrated, it got some notice.I never tire of the story.I love the book 'No One Here Gets Out Alive', but I've wondered so often how much of it just belongs to a one sided opinion, you know?Jim can't refute anything.The fact that Pamela died only two years later makes it an even bigger mystery, and even more intriguing.Beside Jagger and Bowie, I think Jim's style has been copied by more artists than anyone.The dude had charisma, no doubt.ValusVery well said, Gypsee.But Kurt was a born musician,who always wanted to make musicand practiced endlessly on his guitar.He wrote the songs, as well as lyrics,and was more savy than people realizewhen it came to promoting the band.His ambitions for the band were huge.He was a brilliant painter, too.But the sensitivity factor is there, andthe personal demons that became dark muses.I would have loved to see Jim or Kurt perform.We can say a lot about them, butI think it is good just to saythat the had heart.Some people think they took the easy way out,but how many of those people were battlingdemons in the hell of their own depths?These men sang from their hearts,did everything from their hearts. Deliverance.
but, he has made me smile a time or two, his music has made me contemplate life a time or two, the jams have made me jam a time or two... his lucious looks have made me drool a time or two...
he has contributed to my life as much as anybody else has.
love em.
I've had similar reversals.
The Jim Morrison of the early period,the rock-shaman on mushrooms and LSD,is a lot different from the lounge singerwho drank and sniffed coke later on.
quote:"My son had a unique genius, which he expressed without compromise." Maybe if his father had said it sooner, he wouldn't have drank himself to death. So it goes.
Jim was predispositioned to drinking. I don't think his father led him to drink. Jim had a roller coaster life brought on by fame, chicks, money, drugs. That's enough to seduce any young man into a hedonistic lifestyle.
He had a realistic view on love/pain. But his behaviour was rash and he saw himself as intelligent. Sadly, his intelligence didn't protect him from making poor choices. His overdose was more powerful than the man.
I love the 'Doors'. There's an element of haunting beauty and pain in their music.
I dont have Pluto tightly squaring my moon (in the 4th) and opposing my Ascendant, so, I can't pretend to know how difficult it was for him, or what all the factors (estranged family, conservative culture, etc.) were. I can only speculate. But Jim was definitely a creative genius, before he deteriorated completely. Was he Shakespeare? Not by a long shot. But he was definitely something. A shooting star.
Yes, he went through a weird metamorphosis from pin-up 'lizard king' to 'wild man-Jim' with the paunch & big beard (circa LA Woman). There was a definite change in his style, he became more blusey & husky later on....such a waste of talent.
Peace Frog
Spanish Caravan
L'America
Those were all later, I think.
Prolific trickster, rambler,crusader for the common man...
What's he done in the past 40 yearsthat anybody thinks is comparableto what he did in the 60's?
But nevermind that,
I was saying....
Dylan skated over the surfaces,swam and slipped and cleverly sprung,and hopped the fence with his guitar, etc.
But he didn't go deep.
He was so clever, he didn't have to.He could stay above water a say a lot.
But was any Dylan concert reminiscentof a Dionysian orgy, or a shamanic ritual?
Where was the Moon?
Where was the Fire?
Both had exceptional visions.
But Jim felt them.
I think he meant them,more than Dylan ever did,with his noncommital wit.
Just my thoughts.
I love them both.
The dynamo that burnt out,and the beacon that faded away.
Unfortunately it comes with the territory.
Jim screwed up alot, no doubt, but he was a poet, and THE front man of our lifetimes.That is accomplishing more than most of us could ever dream of..
And, I don't think there was a doubt about his and Pam's love.Just remember times were so different.It was about free love and all that.
She was not innocent either. She had a years long affair with an Italian Count. (I think he was Italian)
Anyway, YIN!!!!!!!! I think in the spirit of friendship you should reconsider. I am older and therefore have loved him longer, PLUS you have Valus, your very own poet, Jim should be mine.
Or we could act like they did then and just share!
*Did you watch that documentary on PBS, V? It just aired the other night. Johnny Depp narrarated. It was called, 'When You're Strange' I believe. Anyway, after watching bits and peices of that, I wanted to start a Jim thread! LL sychnronicity (sp?) strikes again!
Guess it doesn't matter much, he was pretty true to his sun!
There's a recording where he's talking to the audience, saying how he's a Sagittarius, but that he doesn't really believe that stuff. Not sure where I heard it. I think it was before they played "Waiting For the Sun".
Yeah, I saw that thing with Depp, and that's what got me to start this thread, but I didn't know it was a new or recent special. For some reason, I thought it was older.
I understand what you're saying, "Jim was THE frontman of our lifetimes", but I've actually been lucky enough to encounter and dialogue with people like Jim, and, while they may not be stars (or have three considerably-more-grounded bandmates to take care of the logistics -- and carry them while they writhe in a half-conscious state on the stage), they've had a more profound and direct effect on me than Jim had. Kurt Cobain is another story, but, then, that was my generation, so... Maybe I do see your point. (And I won't test your patience by comparing these two comets. That would be a disservice to them both.)
The rock star is in a peculiar class, though. Especially when his/her success depends on a collaborative effort. Had Jim merely been a lone, self-published poet (or a crooner without a band) we probably never would have heard of him. I suppose he was lucky, and so were we (if only to have him), to live in an era where performance, music, showmanship, and spectacle take presidence over the "purity" of the written word. But, then, maybe if the written word were more valued, Jim's poetry would have been enough. It's curious to wonder what effect his "idol", Rimbaud, would have had in a time like ours. Maybe he would have been a rock god. But I doubt it.
Clearly there was going to be some kind of creative career for him, but I believe that Ray may have seen a cash cow when looking at Jim, and once he got him on stage that was all she wrote.
No doubt Ray was was the backbone. There has to be one person keeping stuff together, you know?But, without Jim, I doubt Ray would of ever been more than a club musician.Just MHO, of course.
And yeah, same with Kurt, different genres and all that, but each in his way possibly too sensitive for this world, and the industry that ate them alive.That's show business, so they say.Sad but true.
As far as the documentary, I believe it was just a revamped version of the same stuff we've seen and heard about for years, and since Johnny narrated, it got some notice.I never tire of the story.I love the book 'No One Here Gets Out Alive', but I've wondered so often how much of it just belongs to a one sided opinion, you know?Jim can't refute anything.The fact that Pamela died only two years later makes it an even bigger mystery, and even more intriguing.Beside Jagger and Bowie, I think Jim's style has been copied by more artists than anyone.The dude had charisma, no doubt.
But Kurt was a born musician,who always wanted to make musicand practiced endlessly on his guitar.He wrote the songs, as well as lyrics,and was more savy than people realizewhen it came to promoting the band.His ambitions for the band were huge.He was a brilliant painter, too.
But the sensitivity factor is there, andthe personal demons that became dark muses.
I would have loved to see Jim or Kurt perform.
We can say a lot about them, butI think it is good just to saythat the had heart.
Some people think they took the easy way out,but how many of those people were battlingdemons in the hell of their own depths?
These men sang from their hearts,did everything from their hearts.
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