posted August 16, 2010 09:22 AM         

Personally I feel there no such thing as;
"burns karma faster or more immediately"

You cannot negate what was, because it did all happen.
You cannot do a bad deed and then expect to negate it by doing a good deed.
That is as ridiculous as confession, only to go and "sin" again, confess, repeat over and over.

Getting of the karmic payback wheel is the key.

An eye for an eye...
Getting off the Karmic "Payback Wheel".
Walking one's talk of peace.
Karma v/s Free Will.
A balance, a choice.
We can end the cycles.

If one goes out and hurts someone else because they've been hurt by that other, then that accrues another "debt" that they will have to repay at some future point in order to balance the energies they have misused, by lashing out again rather than forgiving. It is an unending cycle that only choice and free will can put an end to.
But even then...the person you owe or if you were the wronged party, you or they... can negate the debt and stop the payback cycle.
That is what "turning the other cheek" means too. Not to be hit again but to turn away and refuse to play the game. (Hee hee, I like to think it could mean to "moon" someone with those "other cheeks" saying in essence...Fu-k off! I am not going to fight you!)
And during every second of every day, We have Free Will. WE are free to choose our behavior, our reactions. Our free will could cause us to choose to act in a negative unloving manner, or it could cause us to choose to act in a positive and loving manner. In Essence....Karma and Free Will co-existing in a balance.
If one only follows Karma then the payback cycle continues. Two wrongs do not make a right. We have the free will to say no to the Karmic cycles of payback, and to not incur any new Karmic debts.
So I like to say......"get off the cross, they need the wood"....or "get off the wheel and walk your talk".
Feet can climb but a wheel cannot.
Feet can take us off the familiar paths, but the wheel must stay on the road.

posted August 16, 2010 09:37 AM         

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"But it makes me wonder, I mean the victims are only 1/2 of the story what about the others, the Hitlers, Himmlers and Mengeles? Or did they all go directly to the burning fires of hell? Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
I guess I ask because it scares me. How could someone ever make up for those crimes perpetrated in a former life?"

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To continue:
The story of the two women fighting over the baby in King Solomon's day.

Two women, who were living in the same house, each had a child at about the same time. One of the infants died. The conflict began after the woman who lost her baby switched her dead infant with the living infant of the other woman. Both were harlots, there was no father to help make an identification, so the matter was brought before Solomon. What to do? There were no modern-day fingerprints (or footprints) or photographs available; all that Solomon had to work with was human nature. So, Solomon resorted to a ruse with sword that had the effect of revealing the truth.

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Then came there two women, that were harlots, unto the king, and stood before him. And the one woman said, O my lord, I and this woman dwell in one house; and I was delivered of a child with her in the house. And it came to pass the third day after that I was delivered, that this woman was delivered also: and we were together; there was no stranger with us in the house, save we two in the house."
"And this woman's child died in the night; because she overlaid it. And she arose at midnight, and took my son from beside me, while thine handmaid slept, and laid it in her bosom, and laid her dead child in my bosom. And when I rose in the morning to give my child suck, behold, it was dead: but when I had considered it in the morning, behold, it was not my son, which I did bear."

"And the other woman said, Nay; but the living is my son, and the dead is thy son. And this said, No; but the dead is thy son, and the living is my son. Thus they spake before the king."

"Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living."

"And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other."

"Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it."

"Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it: she is the mother thereof."

"And all Israel heard of the judgment which the king had judged; and they feared the king: for they saw that the wisdom of God was in him, to do judgment." (1 Kings 3:16-28 KJV)

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quote:

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Baby found alive; woman arrested
Saturday, December 18, 2004 Posted: 3:14 PM EST (2014 GMT)

(CNN) -- Authorities late Friday said a Kansas woman who had a miscarriage earlier this year confessed to strangling a pregnant Missouri woman in her home and then cutting the baby from her womb -- a crime the local sheriff described as the most gruesome he had ever seen.

Lisa Montgomery, 36, of Melvern, Kansas, was arrested and charged in the kidnapping of the child "resulting in the death of the infant's mother" Bobbie Jo Stinnett, 23, according to an FBI affidavit filed late Friday.

If convicted, Montgomery could face a maximum of life in prison or the death penalty, and a maximum $250,000 fine.

The infant girl has been recovered and was in good condition at Stormont-Vail Regional Medical Center in Topeka.

The girl's father was reunited with her Friday evening, authorities said. She was the couple's first child.

"The baby is fine. The baby is doing great," U.S. Attorney Todd Graves said.

Stinnett was found dead in a pool of blood in her home Thursday afternoon by her mother, who called 911 saying it looked "as though her daughter's stomach had exploded," according to the affidavit.

Crime scene investigators later determined her womb had been cut laterally, the baby removed and the umbilical cord cut, the affidavit said.

"The victim was found with blond hair clenched in her hands," the affidavit says.

Town in shock
The crime shocked Skidmore, a town of about 300 people, with some residents shuttering their doors, saying they no longer felt safe.

"It's very hard for me to accept this," Nodaway County Sheriff Ben Espey told reporters. "Nobody here could ever perceive this taking place -- to have a fetus taken out of someone's womb and then doing an Amber Alert to try to find a child."

The affidavit paints a picture of deceit and premeditation on the part of Montgomery.

It alleges that the woman, using a fictitious name, contacted Stinnett on Wednesday through an Internet chat room about looking at rat terriers the Stinnetts sold over the Internet.

The two agreed to meet Thursday at Stinnett's home. Then, on Thursday afternoon, a neighbor reported seeing a dirty, red pinkish, two-door vehicle -- most likely an import -- outside the Stinnett home.

With a search under way on the ground, computer investigators began talking with Internet providers and were able to trace the fictitious e-mailer to the Montgomery's home, more than 130 miles away.

Authorities immediately began surveillance of the home and saw Montgomery Friday with a "newborn female infant," according to the affidavit
They also noticed a vehicle matching the description of the one seen outside the Stinnett's home. It alleges that the suspect's husband, Kevin, told authorities his wife called him shortly after he arrived home from work Thursday, around 5:15 p.m., saying she had gone shopping in Topeka, went into labor and had a baby.

The husband and the couple's two high-school age children drove to Topeka and met Montgomery in the parking lot of a Long John Silver's restaurant. He, his wife and the child drove home in his pickup truck, and the older children drove his wife's car, a red Toyota Corolla, the affidavit alleges.

Montgomery told her husband the baby was born at a women's clinic in Topeka, but authorities said a subsequent check there revealed no babies were born there Thursday.

Once in custody, the affidavit alleges, Montgomery "confessed to having strangled Stinnett and removing the fetus. Lisa Montgomery further admitted the baby she had was Stinnett's baby and that she had lied to her husband about giving birth to a child."

Espey and Graves said Montgomery had a miscarriage at some point this year, although they would not say how recently it occurred.

Espey told CNN the pregnancy was six months along when the child was lost. Of the possible motive in this case, Espey said, "I think she was probably going to take it because she had lost one through a miscarriage at about six months."

Authorities expressed great relief that the child was recovered alive, and attributed that success to the Amber Alert system.

Authorities learned of the Internet chat room where Montgomery allegedly made contact with Stinnett from a tipster in North Carolina. "We may have not ever recovered this little baby if the Amber Alert system was not put into place," Espey told reporters. "I'm overwhelmed with the fact that we're going to be able to get this baby back."

Sgt. Sheldon Lyon, a spokesman with the Missouri State Highway Patrol, said, "This is a great day for law enforcement in northwest Missouri."

The Internet chat room "Ratter Chatter," a haven for rat terrier lovers in cyberspace, was overwhelmed with responses from its users, many of whom indicated they knew both the victim and suspect in the case.

"I cannot believe how sorrowful I am. They have taken Lisa into custody. I don't know what is worse -- the horrible crime -- or the possibility that it might be Lisa. Someone just shoot me," wrote one user by the name of Jill.

Another user named Teresa wrote, "I am sitting here in shock, not knowing how to break this. I just received a phone call from a reporter in Missouri saying that Bobbie was killed today and her fetus stolen! I am absolutely horrified!"

Skidmore was the subject of intense media attention in 1981, when town bully Ken Rex McElroy was shot to death in his pickup on the main street in front of more than 40 witnesses. Despite a lengthy investigation, none of the witnesses would identify the killer.

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There are other similar cases:

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http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/13/pregnantwoman.attacked/index.html
DA: Woman tried to cut baby from neighbor

Friday, October 14, 2005; Posted: 9:51 a.m. EDT (13:51 GMT)
CNN) -- A Pennsylvania woman beat her eight-month pregnant neighbor with a baseball bat before taking her to a remote area and trying to cut out her unborn baby, a district attorney said Thursday.
SEE THE Above link if you wish to read this one in its entireity.

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So who are the victims and who are the murderers?
When past lives are added into the equation the reasons for certain horrific actions change...at least in theory.
Oh yes, the victim indeed can be innocent, no past life reason for them to suffer thusly, as in children, I especially feel they are innocent victims. Karmic justice only works if the victim is old enough to understand. A child is not. And I feel adult victims can be innocent of past life crimes. The ones who hurt or kill them just pick at random and for no other reason. So even with Karmic debts and reincarnation taken into account, it is not a case of simple black and white.

So before judging any human as inherently damned or evil or even an innocent victim...look at what may be the Karmic factors at work.
The exceptions I feel are most commonly children or young folks. Though some adults who are victims may be simply random targets.

posted August 16, 2010 01:38 PM         

Karma burns itself out.

You can't speed it up or slow it down.

And you can't create karma; good or bad.

All karma is bad.

(Hence,
"good karma" is an oxymoron,
and "bad karma" is redundant.)

posted August 16, 2010 06:13 PM         

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Echoes fade and memories die:
Autumn frosts have slain July

posted August 17, 2010 03:55 PM         

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The good ones who are facing challenges, well, they must have had truckloads of debts, only now surfacing because they have started to burn off the upper layers of karmic debts by becoming good.

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quote:

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The smart people will not complain about these challenges

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Edit to add:
That's right folks..
do not complain or speak of your hardships in life.
You have been labeled as stupid and deserving of it all and things will not improve because you are deemed as not deserving good things in this incarnation.
So shut up and quit bothering the highly evolved perfect folks you nasty low life evil sinful spiritually unevolved creatures.
Do not help others either because you are evil if you try to alleviate their deserved karmic woes.
So give up now because you are not worth dirt in this incarnation.
Yeah, that is the message being sent out in too many cultures/religions/and now new age thought...
no matter how "pretty" it is phrased it is still a disgusting labeling and condemning of all folks with hardships.
I eagerly await the time that such self righteous attitude and labeling folks get the comeuppence they freaking deserve!
And btw...Buddha was a bad husband and a deadbeatr dad despite being so called enlightened.
He left his wife and son to do his thing.
And like the very rich guys now who knowing they have wealth they can easily return to, but go off on a retreat in some cave or whatever, fully knowing that at anytime they can pick up their cellphone and return to their wealth...
well, I do not see the challenge here.
Try caring and giving and helping others when struggling with your own hardships.

posted August 17, 2010 06:40 PM         

I am very sure that many Dalits (Untouchables) in India have mixed feelings about karma,reincarnation,pastlives

I can understand where Lexx is coming from. I believe that she really made some good points.

I don't even remember the last time that I used the word, evil.

There also be a fine line between evilness and madness. Adolf Hitler was thought as being a bad man. Some even thought he was sick from syphilis. I don't know.

Maybe he did have a pastlife of being a person that lived in the city of Jericho. In the bible, I read that many people were slaughtered by the Israelites.

Maybe some of the white supremacists of today had pastlives of being European slaves in Africa.

who knows

just speculation

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Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement