posted April 13, 2013 11:33 AM            

The Bible is Mass of Contradictions, An Undigestible Mess and I Can Make it Say Anything I Want ——-What Do I Do?
By amiann
Most people have this question but the thought of exploring it seems too daunting, so they give up. I had this question myself. I venture to say that everyone does. The Bible calls for it’s students to “rightly divide the word” This means that the student must study until he can make sense of it and there are NO contradictions. When you have come to this place, you are a “workman who can show himself approved” i.e. you know your stuff and it is not an indigestible mess which is so nasty that you have to feed it to the dog.

I am a Bible student of over 20 years. I can promise you one thing. If you see a contradiction, it is your lack of study not the Bible. The Bible has the divine hand print of God on it. If God cannot make it coherent, then God did not inspire it. If God cannot tell us the future, He is not God. If the Bible does not stand up to your utmost scrutiny, throw it away. If it does, believe it.

I will start at the very beginning to try to make this mass of words have some order so it can become alive to you. The Bible was meant to come alive to it’s readers. If it does not, the fault is with you not God. The thing that is most surprising when a newbie starts to study the Bible is HOW simple it is. If it is not simple, you are doing something wrong. If you see stampedes of galloping zebras instead of horses, you are off track. When this happens, you are usually into some form of esoteric understanding of the Bible. These are like secret societies. It seems hip and slick to belong to one but most of them are founded on what I use for my garden–manure. If you are out there in some esoteric ego trip with the Bible as your base, you are not a true student of the Bible. You may be massaging your ego and it does feel good to be better than everyone and know more than everyone but at the end of the day, you are left with rubble. Your house will be made of sticks and the wolf will blow it down with your massive ego the first to go. Why do I talk like this? Truth is love.

Back to our study of the Bible from the very, very, very beginning. If you want to study any subject, you have to look at the Macro view and the Micro view. We will start with the Macro view, as this simple division of time periods and groups seems to be lacking with the esoteric student who comes up with mush. We do not want mush. That is for sure. Starting at the macro level is the best way to prevent this. If the newbie Bible student will understand some very simple concepts, he can prevent mush and be on his way to be a discerning Bible student. The first concept to understand is Dispensations. This is a complicated word for the very simple concept that different time periods have different demands by God. Different time periods have different rules from God to man. Different time periods have different WAYS for man to find God. Each man wants to find God. Even the most hardened criminal longs for rest in God’s bosom. It is within the heart of all men. Hence, we will go on with our study.

One of the major errors in the esoteric Bible students pot of mush is that he pays no attention to Dispensations. He will look at an Old Testament man and expect him to have the same rules as a New testament man. He does not. The OT man’s road to God is totally different. Hence, the esoteric student takes things meant for a man in one time period and applies it to another, willy- nilly. He gets willy – nilly soup which is like my soup when I get over zealous with spices. It goes into the garbage sans even dog.

Lets talk basics. When man was created, he had no rules. He had no worries. He lived in paradise. There was no death. There was no sickness. There was no work. There was no taxes. There was no angst. You get the picture. God visited with man each day and spent time with him because God created man to have someone too love. If you want a true love story, this is it. In this Dispensation, man had one rule. It was to not eat from the one tree God instructed. Why? The reason is because God did not want blind robots who had no choice.This choice was a choice to obey God. This choice was to accept God as sovereign.The eating of the apple was man’s disobedience. Once man disobeyed, the earth changed. The earth went from a paradise to flawed. These flaws are the reason we have all our angst.

The next Dispensation after Paradise allowed man to do whatever he wanted, as there were no laws. God did not make man to be under laws. God made man to be free. Now, since man had no laws and an evil nature, murders began. Jealousies arouse. Egos fought. Man’s human nature was at work with no laws constraining it. God had to step in or man would destroy himself. Hence, the next Dispensation was the Age of the Law or the Old Testament.

The law was given to restrain man. The law was not given so man could follow it. Here is where one major error comes in with the esoteric types. They try to follow the law. It is not just the esoteric types. It is the good church lady who never says a swear and has a fake, plastic smile on her face to go with her fake personality. It is the person who hates himself and beats himself up at every turn. I have been there and so I talk from pure experience on this one. Whatever category you fall into, you are in error. It is a major error because you have missed the POINT of the Bible.The law was given to show you that you could not follow it. The law was given so you would despair of ever being able to follow it. The law was given so you would cry out to God for help. Who of you knows this? Very few. I did not either. However, it is the truth and it can set you free. The Bible was meant to set you free, not imprison you. The true Christian( of which there are few) should be the happiest person on the planet. He should be filled with joy. He should be filled with love because he was won earth’s prize–a true relationship with God.

We leave the Dispensation of Law and go to the next Dispensation, the Age of Grace. This is our current Dispensation. In it, one finds God through faith not works. In it, one realizes one can never keep the law and one asks God to keep the law for him which is essentially what a relationship with Jesus is. Jesus was the only man who could keep the law. He keeps the law in our place. Hence, we can be reconciled to God. The esoteric student will still be bragging about his good deeds as a means to please God when the Age of Grace is diametrically opposed to all of this. To clarify, we should do good deeds but these good deeds have NO bearing on our relationship with God. Jesus’ good deeds made our relationship with God possible. We should fall on our knees and accept Jesus’ sacrifice, not try to do paltry deeds to try to reach God. Why do I talk so strongly? Truth is love.

I have not talked more about the Age of Grace simply because I want to move on to the next Dispensations. The next Dispensation is the Tribulation. This strikes fear and trembling in even the most atheist of hearts. There are no atheists in foxholes. There are few atheists when life hits you so badly that you are crawling on your knees. I have been there. I am sure many of you have, too. The Tribulation Age is the age where God pours His wrath out on the earth. Why? Because God has taken enough of man’s disobedience and God has given man more than enough chances to reconcile himself to God. Now, man will reap what he sowed. The Rapture will occur before the Tribulation but we don’t know when, just that it will be before the Tribulation, sequence wise.

The next Dispensation is the Millenium. Now, the earth has been transformed. The lion will lie down with the lamb. There will be no more wars. Jesus will be the actual ruler over the earth. This will last for 1000 years. People will be born on the earth. There will be a New Jerusalem which will descend from Heaven to earth. Some people will be citizens of Heaven but able to come to earth. Some people will be citizens of the earth but not have access to Heaven. The Millenium has very comp0licated details of which I do not know all. I know that I am safe. I write this because I want you to be, too.

I did not write about the discerning of different groups of people. The esoteric person or the church person who wants to throw away the Jews will make many errors here. One cannot throw away people or doctrines at one’s whim. The Bible won’t make sense and you will be the loser. The Bible says what it says. Man is the servant to God and not vice -versa. At any rate, I will end with showing you how to divide groups of people in the Bible. It is much easier than the Dispensations, so take heart if you have stuck with me thus far.

There are two groups of people in the Bible and two groups only—The Jews and the Gentiles. In the Age of the Law, God came to the Jews only. Remember that the Gentile woman was called a dog. This was because this age was for the Jews. God can do what He wants, not what we think is right. At any rate, the Age of Grace is for the Gentiles. During this Age, any single person can find God but the Jews as a corporate body are not the focus. I am Jewish and found God in the Age of Grace. There will be a small number of Jews who will find God in the Age of Grace. These are called the ‘remnant”. Keep that in mind when you read. The esoteric person or the church person who hates Israel will confuse groups. Replacement Theology is a throwing away of the Jews and replacing them with the Gentiles. Prophecy won’t work and the Bible will remain dead if people impose false constructs such as this on it. Remember man serves God, not vice-versa

When we go to the Tribulation, we must separate the Jews from the Gentiles as each group has a different role. The 144, 000 are a group of Jews from every nation who will evangelize the world. Many cults make themselves the 144, 000. This is a major error and their whole theology goes the way of error( not just from this but when you hear groups such as the Jehovah’s Witness and the Mormans claim the 144, 000, you will know better) This has been an exhaustive article and I am exhausted. Just kidding. I feel happy to share this with you and hope I have touched a few hearts.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 13, 2013 12:42 PM            

we are A11 equal. ...

posted April 13, 2013 12:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:

Uhm yeah, so do tell neophyte bible student, is the word "dispensation" in the Bible..even once?

Oh this should be fun.

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Dispensation means time periods. Grrrr you have a hard head

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 13, 2013 01:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Dispensation means time periods. Grrrr you have a hard head

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And one avoided the questions Mrs Fancy Pants!

posted April 13, 2013 01:09 PM            

We will often find what we look for, particularly in a book as comprehensive, and full of contradictions, as the Holy Bible. Teachings are given for many species of religious seeker, and it is inevitable that one will gravitate to the ones which appear clearest in the light of their own perspective. As we change and grow, certain verses recede into the background while others, which we overlooked, become more prominent. Some are subordinated to others, which were once subordinate to them, and some simply take on entirely new meanings.

The verses which may be taken to suggest predestination and salvation by election are there, I believe, to indicate the necessity of abandoning the personal will. We cannot grab at God, but we can release our grip and discover ourselves in His hand.

As you probably know, the Bible itself was "cobbled together" from a wide array of gospels and other scriptural writings, during the Council of Nicea. Most of what passed for scriptural and doctrinal now passes for apocryphal. Archaeological findings and historical scholarship have presented us with a view of the early Christians which is anything but homogeneous. There were many groups, as there are today, taking various stances on the teachings of Christ, and, to a large extent, they were accepting of one another. Unlike today, they understood that the Spirit could speak to them directly, so their scriptures were not merely handed down, but composed on the spot. In a more recent century, the revelation of George Fox, the founder of the Quakers (now The Religious Society of Friends) comes closest to this wisdom:

"Then what had any to do with the scriptures, but as they came to the Spirit that gave them forth? You will say to me, 'Christ saith this, and the apostles say this;' but what canst thou say? Art thou a child of the Light, and hast thou walked in the Light, and what thou speakest, is it inwardly from the Lord?"

As this quote suggests, those who made the spirit, the "indwelling Christ", primary were not beholden to either scriptures or rabbis. My own study of the early Christian movements suggests that they were highly revolutionary, and seldom dependent on rabbinical influence.

Christian symbolism and the teachings of Christ provided them with a framework into which they could pour their ongoing revelations and interpretations of doctrine, but the Spirit continued to speak and give dispensations appropriate to different times, places, and individuals. An emphasis was placed on the practices of meditation and pacifism, but much disagreement has always surrounded the "finer" points of doctrine.

posted April 13, 2013 01:11 PM            

quote:

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God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son... Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

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quote:

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I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

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posted April 13, 2013 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:

A "dispensation", as I use the term,
is a revelation appropriate to a given time,
place, and/or individual.

[QUOTE]I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

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Like "rapture" it does not appear in the Word HSC, ditto "trinity".

Lest I be the source of confusion, as Paul said "..I determined to know only Christ, and him Crucified.."

Which is Gospel 098 so to speak, when Paul spoke amongst the philosophers on Mars Hill he understood that his message was becoming merely one of many and he dispensed with the whole process.

posted April 13, 2013 01:18 PM            

quote:

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it ended all arguments, it stopped being a matter of conjecture

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If only that were true.

posted April 13, 2013 01:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
If only that were true.

As you can see, we're still disputing;
still conjecturing, -- though many of us,
no doubt, imagine they have "heard it all".

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Actually, not at all, Christ's message is Truth, mankind can accept it or reject it individually the message however, is what it is.

posted April 13, 2013 01:25 PM            

quote:

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If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me... How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery... Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit

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posted April 13, 2013 01:35 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
~ Ephesians 3
King James Version

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Word: oikonomia

Pronounce: oy-kon-om-ee'-ah

Strongs Number: G3622

Orig: from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship. G3623

Use: TDNT-5:151,674 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H4475 H4673

1) the management of a household or of household affairs
1a) specifically, the management, oversight, administration, of other's property
1b) the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship
1c) administration, dispensation

Uhm yeah, Oikenomia means "dispensation" the way AA now states it.

Thanks for clearing that one up..

posted April 13, 2013 01:51 PM            

quote:

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Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves... take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

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"what ye shall speak... shall be given you... [by] the Spirit."

He did not say:

"You will know what to say,
because I have told you what to say.
Just repeat what I have said, verbatum,
because my words have made all things clear,
and one has only to hear them to understand.
If he is not moved by them, nothing will move him."

Surely, he could have said that, if he meant that,
but he told us to speak by the inspiration of the Spirit.

I suppose, like you,
I could rest my case,
and laugh in your face.

posted April 13, 2013 01:54 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 13, 2013 02:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
Ami,

That's okay, I appreciate the effort. Not every mouth is intended to reach every ear. Your response shows that you have understood what is needful. Who blesses is already blessed.

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Thank you for being so gracious! xx

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 13, 2013 02:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Dear Heart Shaped Cross
I really can't follow you, so I am not able to respond. Blessings to you, though!

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Oh great.

posted April 13, 2013 02:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
Despite your mocking attitude, which hardly seems motivated by divine love, I don't see how that definition effectively contradicts my own. An administration occurs in time, first of all. The administrator is given authority to administer -- or, as the origin of the word implies, to minister.

"what ye shall speak... shall be given you... [by] the Spirit."

He did not say:

"You will know what to say,
because I have told you what to say.
Just repeat what I have said, verbatum,
because my words have made all things clear,
and one has only to hear them to understand.
If he is not moved by them, nothing will move him."

Surely, he could have said that, if he meant that,
but he told us to speak by the inspiration of the Spirit.

I suppose, like you,
I could rest my case,
and laugh in your face.

But I'd rather reason with you,
for as long as it takes,
or as long as I have strength.

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quote:

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New Living Translation (©2007)
This fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah that says, 'When you hear what I say, you will not understand. When you see what I do, you will not comprehend.

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posted April 13, 2013 02:16 PM            

I dispensed with that,
and now you have a third.

You seem determined not to walk a strait line.

Yet, this argument is the flimsiest of all,
since, according to your own logic, thus far,
Isaiah was not understood because he was not the Word.

Nevertheless, this is what you put forward.

Your argument seems to be undermined by it,
while mine seems to accord with it perfectly.

Until now, you seemed to say that men have heard,
but, in spite of that, have willfully turned away.

Now you are merely saying what I have said;
that men can hear, yet not understand.

posted April 13, 2013 03:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
You insisted the word does not appear.
I showed you the word, plain as day.
So you presented a different defense.

I dispensed with that,
and now you have a third.

You seem determined not to walk a strait line.

Yet, this argument is the flimsiest of all,
since, according to your own logic, thus far,
Isaiah was not understood because he was not the Word.

Nevertheless, this is what you put forward.

Your argument seems to be undermined by it,
while mine seems to accord with it perfectly.

Until now, you seemed to say that men have heard,
but, in spite of that, have willfully turned away.

Now you are merely saying what I have said;
that men can hear, yet not understand.

How can a man willfully reject
what he has not even understood?

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Nope HSC, the word is entirely different in Koine Greek, what happens is those who wish control over others invariably go back to the old covenant, when the reality is..that has been annulled.

To put oneself in my frame, think, you read the KJV, I read Greek and Hebrew, so for me, it's a bit like a conversation with one who has, perhaps learned some, but has no real wisdom when it comes to dividing the word.

Arrogant?

Possibly, I've had many many discussions along these lines and it becomes tiresome

posted April 13, 2013 03:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Heart--Shaped Cross:
Please, explain this to me.
I may not have understood you.
Or, if I am incapable of understanding,
no matter how much of the truth I hear,
since, as you say, God alone decides,
then, why do you mock; and not feel pity?

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Who says I don't? However condescension is not my forte', so for me I'd prefer to be cryptic.

posted April 13, 2013 03:17 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted April 13, 2013 03:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Padre
If you want to ask me a question( and I am not saying you do) but put it in the right Dispensation and talking to the right people and I will try to answer. xx

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Oh dear one, we just shall never agree, and it reminds of Paul's advice to not engage in arguments.