posted April 23, 2022 08:21 PM            

It'll be okay *hugs*

posted April 23, 2022 08:38 PM            

The mainstream idea is that, yes, there is a separation phase in which each person works on themselves, but only one of them (the "divine feminine" - not necessarily female) does it consciously while the unconscious one (the "divine masculine" - not necessarily male) is oblivious or at most, dissolving a karmic situation (such as a job, relationship, family, etc.). Only after that does the universe bring them back together for "union".

If there is a lot of on/off stuff, that may correlate more to narcissistic abuse, which a lot of so-called "twin flames" actually fall into https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Irq2k9uJc

More importantly, I point you towards vansio's thread on twin flames https://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/005192.html and Galactic's superb insight here https://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/004677.html

And there is also this which I agree with https://galacticmystic.com/blogs/news/my-truth-about-twin-flames

posted April 23, 2022 09:26 PM            

However you regard him, as SM/TF/whatever, if he crosses a boundary (even just a verbal one) that is a red flag. Someone who does not respect a boundary you clearly set is going to continue to cross them. I think it's important to push back early on, let him know you will not be trifled with, so it does not happen again. He should respect you more for this, and you'd be modeling good behavior for him too, especially since he's younger.

I met the great unrequited love of my life on 11 September 2012. It was an 11 personal year for me. My waxing Saturn square was about to begin, tSaturn in my 5th in Scorpio, and the square would become exact on the day he married someone else, in June of 2014. (Very suddenly, after dating her less than a year. They got engaged after six months. Married during Mercury Rx; still together now, with a beautiful daughter.) By then tSaturn would also be within 3-4' of my nPluto. tPluto was crossing my DC over this time period, and the NN had also passed through Scorpio/my 5th and into Libra. My natal Saturn is in Aqua in the 8th, and the waxing square was opposite my nSun in Taurus in the 11th. Anyway we went to school AND worked together, so I had to see him every day, and it was pretty painful. I remember the day I overheard our boss say he'd gone to propose to his girlfriend, so suddenly... I went home and shaved my head. lol

So all these Sun/5th house, Scorpio/8th, Aqua/11th themes were being triggered. It is not quite a T-square in my chart because the Sun-Pluto opposition is too wide. So it is not helpful, instead just a painful double square from Saturn. Saturn rules my Cap North Node and my 7th house. My other 8th house ruler, Uranus, is disposited in the 7th conjunct Neptune. Both "TFs" have their Neptune on my DC, as well as moon/Pluto aspects with me being Pluto.

The 2nd one I met last year, 22 March 2021, another 11 year. (Interesting the 11/22, 9/3, 12/21 synchronicity with this date and the one above.) I had seen him in a video before but didn't think anything of him. When I saw him in person I didn't remember the video, and my thought was that he was so hot he would never notice me lol. Also I was married when we met; he had broken up again with his on/off girlfriend. We knew each other for six weeks and there was intense attraction on both sides, frequent staring and heightened sensitivity to one another. Sometimes it was effortlessly comfortable, like a deep sense of inner peace, and other times a nervewracking cascade of fear through our nervous systems. He approached me. Anyway too many little astrological manifestations and synchronicities to recount here now. But anyway I was married and he knew I was leaving. Still, he asked me out, I turned him down. That weekend, my birthday, my life fell apart: divorce out of nowhere, my sister announced she wanted to take over my father's care; both of these freed me up to now pursue my dharma by going back to school, potentially the Virgo/Scorp's school. This is Saturn return, so triggering all those natal aspects I outlined above. The same weekend, I think he got back with the girlfriend. That Tuesday I waited outside for him to get off work and pretended I was just passing by lol. I told him I was getting divorced. We talked until curfew. I asked him out, he turned me down. We parted ways. He ghosted me. After months of obsession and little or no response from him, I blocked him on the only social media platform I use, which is our only means of communication since we never exchanged numbers. A few months later, he noticed and got very hurt, posted all this stuff about "don't run away" and made a fake account to talk to me WHILE he was on a business trip with his girlfriend! ****** me off. What a coward. But I was weak and started giving him attention again. Then messaged to say I would be going to his school this coming fall after all. He was again super inquisitive and enthusiastic and supportive, then suddenly ghosted again a couple weeks ago. So now I'm ****** off again. He's still with his girlfriend, which I grudgingly respect. No idea what to do when I have to see him every day starting in September. Still trying to figure out what the connection means and whether he is safe. I won't be able to know until I spend more time with him, but I might give him the cold shoulder except when we absolutely have to talk. I do not want a relationship right now anyway.

So again, the theme of being at school together repeats.

In my opinion it is limerence. I posted this on another thread on the synastry of limerence, comparing my synastry with both these men:

quote:

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What I found in BOTH cases:
- conjunctions to my Pholus
- aspects to my Chiron
- PLUTO-MOON (with me as Pluto, and Pluto being the ruler of my 5th house - one is a conjunction, the other is a trine)
- THEIR Pluto trine my MC and opp my Sun
- their Neptune on my DC
- aspects to my AC
- trines to my Mars
- aspects to my Mercury/Juno
- aspects to my Moon/Venus
- my Sun trine their Neptune
- aspects to nodal axis, in both cases conjunctions to South Node, one also NN and the other one a square to my nodal axis

Granted, these people were born less than a year apart, and the outer planet stuff is generational. But coupled with aspects to my South Node, Pholus, Chiron, and personal planets (especially my Pisces Mars), I think they make for intense infatuation aka limerence. It's also important to note that out of all the rulers of my relationship houses (5, 7, 8), they only aspected my 5th house ruler (Pluto, ugh you're killing me lol), not my 7th or 8th house rulers (Saturn and Uranus).

---

For me the obsession with the Virgo/Scorp is more intense because, I think, the Pluto/moon is a conjunction rather than the trine I experienced before. My Vertex is also nearby. The first guy had his Venus on my South Node, but the one now has Kaali on my SN and Uranus on my North Node. He was a wakeup call to get back on track to my dharma: he is my dream.

Is the second one aware of the first? Is he jealous? He was very inquisitive about my husband at the time, wanted to know everything and seemed to be comparing himself. I didn't tell him about my past. But I have not discussed the connection with him. I only know that it is strongly felt on both sides, maybe he even feels it more with his Scorpio moon/Pluto, but he is better at hiding it than me - my Cancer AC with moon and Mercury in Aries make me compulsively emotionally honest, or at least transparent, especially to him. We read one another extremely well.

I think we have to work on the following things regarding these connections:
1. Identify and meet unmet needs (that he seemed to promise) and meet them
2. Identify and live out qualities/traits (both “good” and “bad”) of his that were repressed in me
3. Rewrite painful stories (that he appeared to solve)
4. Separate him from the Dream - and live the Dream yourself!

posted April 24, 2022 12:18 PM            

It seems like with both TFs you're encountering themes of control, them trying to control you. All my LTRs have been with either Aqua sun or Aqua moon like you, you guys need your freedom!

quote:

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Originally posted by MoonMystic:

With him I seriously after today see this.
"there is a lot of on/off stuff, that may correlate more to narcissistic abuse, which a lot of so-called "twin flames" actually fall into"
- I need him to recognize it, I need to take my power back too. I told him some things indicating he's a control freak. He might need to examine that. It is unbelievable the things he uses his insecurities to control me - I've allowed it too. So this needs to heal, so WE can heal. I need strength to keep away.

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Yes, you're absolutely right. I am so glad my person and I were forcibly separated so I HAD to reflect and work on myself, couldn't muff things up with him like I did with the first one.

Ghosting will make him more obsessed, so make sure you have mechanisms in place to maintain no contact if that is what you think is best. He sounds like he has not grown. Has he been through Saturn Return yet?

Composite north node conjunct Chiron looks BAD, MoonMystic. Like the destiny of the relationship is pain. Then Uranus is near SN, opp Venus/Mars, very unstable. And yet Venus/Mars are not close enough to NN to compensate. It's the grand trine with moon/Mercury/Saturn that's making it so difficult to stop communication. An enduring intellectual and emotional exchange, especially with moon in the 9th and a wide conjunction from Jupiter in the 8th, very intimate. It's a permanent emotional need, and in fire houses too, very impulsive and passionate. However, Saturn in the 5th is dampening the fun. Pisces Mercury ont he ascendant, you are repeating that theme of intellectual and spiritual thought exchange from the first TF. Harmonious aspects from Neptune to sun and Pluto which are opposite, forming a triangle (but not grand trine or T-square) - it does seem like a dreamy and idealistic affair but it's like reality is going to bite. The relationship is here for transformation of the joint ego, perhaps? Venus and Neptune are crossing the AC, a double dose of rose-colored glasses you're both wearing. It will pass with the transits. Then Mars and Saturn will hit you with reality I'm afraid.

pcSaturn opp pcMoon, not a great time for the emotional aspect of the relationship. Maybe when moon moves out of Cap in around 7 months, or into the 10th about a year from now. I think the window of time when moon is in Aqua in the 9th might be good though. Right now, with pcPluto square pcVenus, lots of attempts at possession and control are going on. Not healthy.

And in fact, in the midpoint composite, all the karma is around possession. You are learning about self-possession, not possession of the other. Especially him, it seems. Read up on south node Scorpio/8th house and north node Taurus/2nd house. It is all about valuing yourself and not trying to control others. Moving towards self-empowerment and self-possession. That is the purpose of the relationship. Unfortunately it will happen through wounding.

And the Davison has Sun/Pluto! Dang... yes this is some crazy Plutonic ****! Mars and Uranus on the NN, very unstable and aggressive energy, extremely impulsive. T-square with Jupiter/moon opp Venus with Saturn at the apex, there is so much restriction on what would otherwise be a very explosive and expansive emotional affair of the heart. There is genuine love here, but there is too much restriction and control from Saturn and Pluto. Saturn is saying "calm down." Pluto is saying "can't stop." Mars/Uranus are like "AAAAAAAHHHHHH CHAOS!" lol

No wonder there is such a theme of addiction and control, yet it's erratic and on/off.

posted April 24, 2022 10:35 PM            

Wow ok so your nodes are inverted with one another in a similar way as mine were with my former husband! Your NN in Pisces in the 3rd and his NN in Gemini in the 12th, so houses and their ruling signs are switched. This makes a lot of sense. You're coming from very similar places to learn very similar lessons around communication and spirituality. You're dealing with the thought axis and the existence axis, which are both mutable. Your life paths are about learning to communicate effectively, and speaking your truth in a thoughtful and considerate way. “Skepticism versus faith” is a major theme of your lives. Your karmic classrooms are in school and all the ways you educate yourselves. Both mutable axes - 3/9 and 6/12 - deal with the broader ideas and beliefs we have about life, and both hold a tension between small but practical thinking and big but broad philosophizing. You two are here to synthesize these. The mutable axes deal with our belief systems - so becoming either dogmatic or directionless are signs of imbalance.

Your Pluto squares his nodal axis - i can't see the degrees so don't know how exact it is. More importantly, your Aqua Sun/moon/Venus trine his North Node/Sun/Mars. WIth your stellium in another air sign falling in his 9th, again we have the thought axis lit up (Gem/Sag 3/9). As a Cancer AC also I really feel that 12th house Gem is all about communicating the unseen, articulating the unconscious. You're here to do that as well. That's what he's here to do and you're triggering that, but it's very much his ego and aggression that you're triggering along with it. These may be fairly unconscious in him. You are bringing up a lot of unconscious stuff, especially with your Pluto also in action here. You act as a very transformative agent in his life, pushing him towards his dharmic purpose.

His Mercury is there too, opposite your Neptune, so he probably doesn't understand what you mean very well, may see you through a veil of illusion, projection. Your Neptune falling also in your 12th... very interesting. It's his NN ruler opposite your NN ruler, but each in natal 12th houses and overlaid on one another's 6th. Again here we're dealing with the existence axis (6/12) and Mercury being the ruler of Gemini/3rd house, also your NNs. I would really dig into that Mercury-Neptune opposition, do some research, how to resolve or use this.

His moon and your Pluto also in Virgo, his moon being in his 3rd house overlaid on your 9th. Again existence and thought. Your south node there too. Your stellium in his 9th. It's all about how you've both misused your words and intellect before, leading others astray or imposing your beliefs on others. He was probably a teachers for many lifetimes.

With his Saturn conjunct Pluto in 5th house Libra, his karma is around issues of control in his relationships, and being wayyy too intense and serious with what should be casual and fun affairs. (I have Pluto in the 5th too so I can somewhat relate.) He just brings SO MUCH intensity to the parts of life that should be fun (creativity, romance, children) and both expresses and experiences a lot of restriction in these areas. It's a deeply unconscious and compulsive need to control, restrict, possess.

He doesn't aspect your nodes at all, which is why I'm thinking you teach him more than he teaches you.

Otherwise things look really nice. It explains why you hit it off so well but once the relationship progressed and solidified, all those Plutonian issues in the composite started to emerge. Your Mars trines his Venus and Uranus, and I wonder if those are trine in his natal. Then your Mars would make a grand trine with them, creating this really romantic, sexually charged, unpredictable and exciting affair. That looks like a really fun merry-go-round of sex and pleasure and adventure! Though there could be some fighting involved too, especially being a fire trine. Then your Uranus also sextile his Venus (potentially forming a grand kite, it looks like, opposite your Mars - your need for freedom being the key to breaking you two out of that crazy cycle), adding even more Uranian unpredictability to the fire.

The thing is there is such prominent Uranus activity here that stability is very difficult to attain. It's a lot of fun but so topsy-turvy that any LTR would be very, very difficult to establish for long. This energy is at odds with the Plutonian stuff, which is trying to obsessively control things in the wrong way and force the relationship by pinning it down. I really see Pluto running off with Persephone here, but with Persephone being more Uranian and able to fight him off and run away, only to get caught again, and this cycle happening over and over. Looking at the composite againw ith Uranus on the south node, this reinforces those themes, it's just never been a stable relationship (in this life or past lives) - and cUranus has only hard aspects. Even though I read your Saturn as a positive influence on his moon, it's just not enough to stabilize the relationship.

I love that your Saturn trines his moon but your Jupiter sextiles it - like you provide structure to his feelings but also give him freedom, it's like the perfect environment for emotional growth. Something still very Aquarian about it, with your Saturn falling in his 11th and your Jupiter in your natal 11th.

posted May 23, 2022 05:26 PM            

Yes, my time in his country came to an end and I returned to my home country, so we were forcibly separated and he got back with his on/off ex. We had minimal contact for the past year, here and there, but mostly he would end up ghosting but still stalk me or try to reach me through fake profiles, which I do not appreciate. Now that a year has passed since we last saw one another, and knowing I will return to his school in the fall (where I may end up studying for three years), the obsession on my end is gone. I have lost any interest in a romantic relationship with him and look forward only to a professional one. Athenaia helped me a ton with this.

Astrologically, for me, it seems to have been just a lot of transformative aspects like Saturn Return squaring 11H Sun and 5H Pluto, tPluto squaring my moon/Venus conjunction, tUranus passing over my sun, the April/May eclipses hitting my sun and his moon, etc. Just a period of intense transformation and growth for me.

I have to say I am VERY glad we were separated and I was able to go through the obsessive phase alone, without him, and get it out of my system before being “reunited”. He has too many red flags and I do not want a relationship right now.

posted June 09, 2022 04:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by sashavittoria:
Hey MM, you never returned to update! How are things going?

Yes, my time in his country came to an end and I returned to my home country, so we were forcibly separated and he got back with his on/off ex. We had minimal contact for the past year, here and there, but mostly he would end up ghosting but still stalk me or try to reach me through fake profiles, which I do not appreciate. Now that a year has passed since we last saw one another, and knowing I will return to his school in the fall (where I may end up studying for three years), the obsession on my end is gone. I have lost any interest in a romantic relationship with him and look forward only to a professional one. Athenaia helped me a ton with this.

Astrologically, for me, it seems to have been just a lot of transformative aspects like Saturn Return squaring 11H Sun and 5H Pluto, tPluto squaring my moon/Venus conjunction, tUranus passing over my sun, the April/May eclipses hitting my sun and his moon, etc. Just a period of intense transformation and growth for me.

I have to say I am VERY glad we were separated and I was able to go through the obsessive phase alone, without him, and get it out of my system before being “reunited”. He has too many red flags and I do not want a relationship right now.

Have you been able to kick your TF2?

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Sasha, you do seem very relieved. How are things at present date? That's so good that Athenaia was able to assist you.

My situation has kept on/off but I think he threw in the gantlet. I suspect he either has someone else in mind or he decided I'm too difficult. It's painful but I'm trying to take better care of me.
We made it to 7.5 months of knowing one another. This is rough on me as I have become very emotionally attached with him. Tbh more than with anyone, certainly not like this. But I need to resist speaking of him beyond this update. I'm short, I may never kick him from my heart but I can diversity my focus.

posted June 14, 2022 07:32 PM            

I am fully over 136, but I am worried because starting in the fall I will be seeing him every day and I really fear my strong feelings will return. However, I am determined not to slip into my Cancer SN and get all emotional. I've got to be a cold bada** Capricorn! (lol, jka bout the stereotypes)

This guy just does not sound mature enough for you, nor spiritually attuned enough. If he has to be so black and white about things and make someone else the bad guy while absolving himself of responsibility... no. Just no. You deserve much better than that. No one deserves to be treated that way.

posted June 14, 2022 07:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sashavittoria:
Read up on south node Scorpio/8th house and north node Taurus/2nd house. It is all about valuing yourself and not trying to control others. Moving towards self-empowerment and self-possession. That is the purpose of the relationship. Unfortunately it will happen through wounding.

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`\_(ツ _/`