posted October 20, 2014 07:29 PM            

I think that both people have to have had some childhood abuse. In each natal chart, you will find asteroids for pain, betrayal and abuse, prominent. In synastry( the chart which compares one person’s natal chart with another), the Nessus and Dejaneria will connect, strongly. The current relationship will bring up the horribly painful childhood abuse . The person feels as if he is re-living it. The pain will be horrendous,unspeakable. I believe that the current Nessus/ Dejaneria relationship is like an instant replay, in football, of the repressed emotions from childhood. That is why it is so intense, and so unexplainable, at the same time.

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posted October 21, 2014 12:32 AM            

My nNESSUS conjunct his nDEJANIRA (0º) (his 8H, my 11H)
His nNESSUS square my nASC / conjunct MC (0º)
His nNESSUS conjunct my drDEJANIRA (2º)

And, oddly:

My nALICE opposite his nDEJANIRA (1º)
My nAMOR opposite his nDEJANIRA (0º)
His nNESSUS square my nMADHATTER (1º)
His nALICE trine my nDEJANIRA (2º)
My drMADHATTER square my nNESSUS / his nDEJA (0º)
His drMADHATTER quindecile my nDEJANIRA (0º)
My drDEJANIRA square my nMADHATTER (0º)
His drDEJANIRA conjunct his nMADHATTER (0º) !!
His drDEJANIRA conjunct his nVALENTINE (0º)
His drNESSUS conjunct his nALICE (1º)

posted October 22, 2014 11:39 AM            

It results in me not changing who I am at all to fit in or belong and people projecting fears or stuff on to me (neptune in first) and my pluto singleton I guess generates a certain energy and confidence combined with my reluctance to be a certain way to fit in that does not put others at ease. Also my SN in Sag resulted in ignorance-naiveness-cluelessness about social protocols and in me quite frankly caring very little about the "social order" and how things are suppose to be. I have never liked cliques.

Combine SN in Sag in the first with saturn-pluto in the 11th and chiron in gemini with mercury retro resulting in academic issues when young and I was not very popular.

In addition to nemesis opposing moon and semisextiling apophis you get indirect aggression from females your way.

Now I had a great father who made made feel loved unconditionally and still makes me feel this way today. My more challenging relationship was with my mother who I did not feel unconditionally loved by truly. I felt she wanted to change me, I suppose kind of like female cliques wanted me to be more like them. My mother and I though are in another level now and that is no longer the case.

So why am I attracted to NESSUS energy? I feel I do repeat the issues with my mother with man so perhaps that is why; feeling like I am not perfect enough and like they want to change me.

My mom has nessus square venus exact (could this symbolize conditional love?)

My Ex has Nessus square venus by 2 orbs and square pluto by 1 orb and his critical nature reminded of her. I actually almost broke up with him a few times because of it but the final reason for break up was different. I remember telling him he reminded of my mother.

My husband's Nessus squares his pluto by 3 orbs and his pluto rules his DC.

All three are intense and controlling in some way.

Its nice to be able to tie in the similarities astrologically...

I on the other hand have soft nessus aspects except for one:

My Nessus trines my AC-Jupiter-Uranus but it sesquisquares my neptune in the first.

posted October 22, 2014 11:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Not exactly. But I do feel as if we're having to confront and heal the abuses we have put each other through, long before we even met. (It's ... complicated.) Sure, some of it's dredging plenty up from childhood, but a lot of it is strangely focussed. Even specific. If you ever saw the film Dead Again, it's more akin to that than anything.

My nNESSUS conjunct his nDEJANIRA (0º) (his 8H, my 11H)
His nNESSUS square my nASC / conjunct MC (0º)
His nNESSUS conjunct my drDEJANIRA (2º)

And, oddly:

My nALICE opposite his nDEJANIRA (1º)
My nAMOR opposite his nDEJANIRA (0º)
His nNESSUS square my nMADHATTER (1º)
His nALICE trine my nDEJANIRA (2º)
My drMADHATTER square my nNESSUS / his nDEJA (0º)
His drMADHATTER quindecile my nDEJANIRA (0º)
My drDEJANIRA square my nMADHATTER (0º)
His drDEJANIRA conjunct his nMADHATTER (0º) !!
His drDEJANIRA conjunct his nVALENTINE (0º)
His drNESSUS conjunct his nALICE (1º)

Quite revealing, I felt.

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posted October 23, 2014 08:39 PM            

Here's, in a nutshell, why:

My Multidimensional Relationship With Someone I Never Imagined Exists

My Intensely Karmic Eclipse

posted October 23, 2014 08:46 PM            

"With this asteroid, I think persecution of the native ensued, as well. I think the person was framed and blamed for things he did not do. I think he was persecuted but INNOCENT of any charges against him."
-ami anne

and searched Alice in the link you provided...

posted October 23, 2014 09:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
Ok I just did a search for madhatter:

"With this asteroid, I think persecution of the native ensued, as well. I think the person was framed and blamed for things he did not do. I think he was persecuted but INNOCENT of any charges against him."
-ami anne

and searched Alice in the link you provided...

So she is a name you came across in a past life regression.

---

Riley is the name which came to me in the regression. The story I was building had the Alice theme, and, fortunately, there are many Carrollian asteroids. So ALICE is taken as a particular type of name asteroid in this theme.

It should bear mentioning that Ami and I disagree on how MADHATTER operates in charts. I'm more inclined to go with Mark Andrew Holmes' take.

Her work stems from very personal experiences, and she's honest regarding the bias that comes from that.

The way I've seen MADHATTER operate in charts tends more to be a bit like perpetual MERCURY RETRO with a dash of URANUS. Things don't go according to plan with the points it touches.

As to persecution -- it's more prosecution. Literally.

... Kinda.

Hatta, the parallel-dimensional Hatter, existing in Looking-Glass Land, rather than Wonderland, is mysteriously imprisoned -- and has been there for awhile. We don't know why; it's never explained.

Last we saw Hatta, he was Hatter, and in Wonderland. While never accused of stealing the tarts, (that was the Knave) he did murder the Time, which drew the Queen's ire, and, as usual -- 'off with his head!'

Dodgson isn't clear why Alice next goes to Looking-Glass Land, (through the looking-glass, in his sequel) rather than Wonderland, or why the only two recurring characters there are Hatta (Hatter) and Haigha (March Hare). But they are.

If we returned to Wonderland, would Alice find the Hatter also incarcerated -- for murdering the Time? Or, as a result OF murdering the Time, did he find himself in another dimension?

Dodgson never tells.

But, now that I'm thinking about it ... MADHATTER might have multidimensional facets of which I was never aware.

posted October 23, 2014 09:17 PM            

I love that we can be respectful and like each other, too

I see Madhatter as I said BUT get this? I have Alice conj my merc, exact.

I was sane in a home that was insane and that really is the story of my life.

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posted October 23, 2014 09:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yea, I can agree to disagree if people are respectful like you are.

I love that we can be respectful and like each other, too

I see Madhatter as I said BUT get this? I have Alice conj my merc, exact.

I was sane in a home that was insane and that really is the story of my life.

---

Absolutely, Ami. I'm a scientist. I've no desire to find anything but the truth of something. That takes research, investigating, and comparing notes.

ALICE, on the other hand, is the quintessential 'stranger in the strange land'. I would think that anything she touches she's going to bestow an irrepressible curiosity -- even a fascination with the point in question. You might find lifelong investigations into the points touched by ALICE -- especially by tight conjunction -- even though the very subject matter seems baffling in a way.

Where ALICE falls, we feel ill-equipped to handle the territory unfolding before us; it seems uncharted. We ended up here, and now we have to find our way.

All things MERCURIAL would then hold your attention, and become areas of eventual expertise, if we stick with them. Even if certain elements may always seem a bit puzzling. The way the mind works, for example; how we communicate. How ideas are constructed and communicated. How information is delivered and processed. The house would offer greater context clues to how it'd operate.

My closest conjunction to ALICE is AMOR. As a schizoid, anything even remotely related to love -- especially unconditional seemed a pipe dream. Nonetheless, I began to study the depth of human relationships. 5H -- so it's not surprising that sex became a focus -- especially casual relations -- how can they even be casual? 'Casual sex' seemed a total oxymoron to me. (It still does!)

I learnt instead how to explore unconditional love via creativity, and, upon the best canvas possible: a relationship with a child. My stepdaughter has taught me more regarding unconditional love than I ever knew before. (My mother's JUPITER falls there, too, so I clearly had a leg up -- despite the volatility growing up.)

Taking ALICE in my partner's chart, he has a 1° conjunction to ISIS. That was curious to me, until I realised his fascination with the Divine Feminine, though it befuddles him. He still studied it in great depth. ISIS also has a desire to take that which is compartmentalised or scattered, and reintegrate it (OSIRIS). Indeed, he's been on a journey to do so. We both have.

I'm curious, Ami. As you've said that your home life was very volatile involving much denial and (I'm assuming) heavy codependency and projection, what are the influences upon your natal MOON? And your 4R? As well as anything huddled around your IC?

posted October 23, 2014 09:50 PM            

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posted October 23, 2014 09:55 PM            

LUST (16°)
REQUIEM (17°)
ANTEROS (18°)
MELETE (18°)
VALENTINE (19°)
MADHATTER (19°)

Took me awhile to decipher that.

REQUIEM can be a few things; it can be a 'cessation of struggle' and a 'point of acceptance'. ANTEROS, as we know, is 'love avenged' or 'love returned'. MELETE is my name asteroid. VALENTINE-MADHATTER has made more sense over time.

His concept of love, relationships, 'true love', and so on, is entirely a jumble. He's tried to operate according to the standard, but his needs in that area run too counter to the majority. Nobody 'fit'. He never felt accepted, either. There was a failure of connexion, across the board.

Enter MELETE-ANTEROS.

Now we undoubtedly have an off-the-wall relationship, which is completely against the norm, and doesn't fit society's ideals. But we're finding ourselves really happy.

Must be the fact VENUS is parallel my MADHATTER, though 4° from being conjunct.

I still wonder what's up with our DW ...

posted October 23, 2014 09:56 PM            

It is funny but I have an amazing chart with many, many gifts.

It only gets whacky when my mother's chart touches it in synastry.

In my own chart, I really only have one really hard thing

Child conj Deja--exact

I was going to be abused/

My mother has a terrible chart. Sado conj the moon, exact.

Aqua Sun combust merc--exact

On and on.

Her combust conj my Chiron EXACT

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posted October 23, 2014 09:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Are you a schizoid, A?

---

posted October 23, 2014 10:04 PM            

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posted October 23, 2014 10:08 PM            

So madhatter conjuncts my Valentine by one orb and my vertex by one orb, actually is right in between my vertex and valentine. Yeah things did not go according to plan that is for sure, more like things went horribly wrong.Oh and pandora is not too far from my vertex either. YAY!!! (sarcasm).

and

Alice in sag at late 18 degrees in the first house
Iris in sag at 20 degrees
Aura in sag at 18 degrees
Knight in Sag at 19 degrees
Southnode in Sag at 19 degrees.

All this conjuncts my ex IC and Vertex.

posted October 23, 2014 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Diagnosed at 19.

---

posted October 23, 2014 10:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Wow A. That is something. Thanks for being so honest. I admire and respect that

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I find no point in dishonesty. I used to feel the need to hide, to pretend to be other than I am, in order to conform. Boy, will that leave you unhappy and full of cognitive dissonance.

And while I may disagree, I value and appreciate your willingness to state your opinion with conviction. That's not easy, and very admirable. Courageous.

I've been compared (often) to either the ex Borg drone Seven of Nine (from Star Trek 'Voyager') or any number of Vulcans. I think I most relate to Seven for the fact she's dealing with a traumatic past and is relearning to be human; learning to integrate into society.

posted October 23, 2014 10:24 PM            

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posted October 23, 2014 10:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

I still wonder what's up with our DW ...

MADHATTER conjunct PSYCHE (0°)
PSYCHE conjunct MADHATTER (0°)

---

Wow that is interesting...Perhaps you two are in the way of each other been with the soulmate you are truly meant to be with or your heart truly desires.

Doesn't change that you clearly came together for good reason to work out important karma.

posted October 23, 2014 10:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by hypatia238:
OHHHHHHHHHHH

So madhatter conjuncts my Valentine by one orb and my vertex by one orb, actually is right in between my vertex and valentine. Yeah things did not go according to plan that is for sure, more like things went horribly wrong.Oh and pandora is not too far from my vertex either. YAY!!! (sarcasm).

and

Alice in sag at late 18 degrees in the first house
Iris in sag at 20 degrees
Aura in sag at 18 degrees
Knight in Sag at 19 degrees
Southnode in Sag at 19 degrees.

All this conjuncts my ex IC and Vertex.

The tendency is for me to feel like a stranger in a strange land with wonder lust looking for that place I can truly call home and looking for adventure and trouble so Alice in the first conjunct so tightly my SN explains a lot.

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posted October 23, 2014 10:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Wow! ALICE-SNODE, 1º. And that's hilarious (in a way) that you both have VALENTINE-MADHATTER! Yeah, relationships don't at all go according to plan, do they?

---

It is hilarious in a way, I agree. I was like wow he has it too. I am not alone on this.

In addition anteros conjunct hygeia squares valentine-madhatter-vertex and tisiphone conjuncts my AC exact......

I dont know what that tisiphone on my AC means.

posted October 23, 2014 11:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Thanks for appreciating that about me, Aub. I have Saturn conj Echo. Most of what I do is to try to find my voice

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I can relate to this, actually. My ECHO is at 9º Libra, which is close to my Twin's ALMA/JUNO. Naturally, his NARCISSUS is 4º -- conjunct my ALMA/JUNO.

Yeah. Painful.

It's interesting that my Guardian's DESTINN is 2º from it. I feel like he's been absolutely instrumental in helping me to finally find my voice.

Incidentally, my ECHO and NARCISSUS are natally parallel. Is that a ... good ... thing? Oddly enough, so are my Guardian's -- but not my Twin's (so it's not a typical thing).

posted October 23, 2014 11:09 PM            

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