posted July 15, 2003 03:41 AM              

i dont know where we all get so self conscious about lying. i suppose its moral fallout from the mass effect of christianity, and how for a long time the church controlled everything. if that makes sense.

i dont feel bad about lying at all. i *NEVER* lie to hurt another person. the only lies i tell are out of a sense of self protection. lies, when used judiciously, are an important tool to keep oneself safe from harm. perhaps ive encountered more dangerous people out there than most, but basically i keep my own safety and facts that support it close to my chest. i *am* one of the most honest people i know. i will tell the truth to people, even if they sometimes dont want it. my aunt told me that once... she said that my honesty was refreshing. i will be honest, but not if being honest will hurt me. i have to take extra care to not be hurt by others, because i am quite vulnerable in relationships with others.

again i want to reiterate... i *never* lie to hurt, cheat, or otherwise manipulate anyone. nor do i lie to make myself something im not, out of a need to be looked up to, or whatever. if i feel a situation like that occuring, i just move on and get what i need by honest means.

posted July 15, 2003 04:38 AM              

IF people want to listen, most can't handle it. I find I get angry at people who won't listen to the whole truth and cut me off though. It's healthy to tell the truth. Plus it's more entertaining than fiction which can be painful, not everyone can face that the truth is painful but once it's out, it's less of a tragedy.

I too like to protect my secrets and my privacy but not about or for myself, for others. I try not to protect my friends now, I just avoid the questions. Ask me no questions, and I will tell you no lies.

posted July 15, 2003 05:54 AM              

But ally, I think your original inquiry was about those people who lie with the intent to lie, and not necessarily for good purposes.

The most hurtful is when someone you really trust lies to you. And then when you call them on it, they continue to do it anyway. SO in that case, I don;t think we can just chalk it up to "everyone lies", because sometimes lying is hurtful and deceitful.

I looked back at that link and saw that negative aspects between Mercury and Neptune were often indicators of a lying personality. And someone mentioned Jupiter. What about negative aspects between Jupiter and Mercury?

Also, what can indicate a manipulative personality?

posted July 15, 2003 01:13 PM              

I know like 4 different virgo dudes that live the lies they tell...

posted July 15, 2003 02:51 PM              

I've found people with Gemini, scorp and Leo incfuences to be respectively two faced, backstabbing and generally untrustworthy.

But the question was a highly ambiguous one and as such could be interpreted in many different ways.

Lieing in general is a part of human behaviour, for better or worse, someone might lie because they want something - the most incurruptable person in the world might lie because they thought it would help, by the same token a compulsive liar might tell the truth randomly just to throw someone.

posted July 15, 2003 03:07 PM            

I work with a Capricorn CFO. He has stated that he would NEVER lie (I caught him in several as recently as today.) He also stated that he will never break rules (like relating a story of how he would not swim in a pool at 10:05pm as it has closed at 10:00pm) BUT this is the same person that would lie or omit how much of our product is allowed to be used in a formulation due to adverse effects, because it doesn't matter anyway and we can sell more.

Okay, call me crazy..but I will be the one to jump the fence and swim at 11pm, but I will not lie or cheat someone to make a buck and endanger a life doing it. The Karma that would result (not to mention my own personal views based on my upbringing and religion) will not allow me to sacrifice the health of a person to sell and extra million for a company.

I am not perfect. I know that there are things I do that are not always cool, but I try to put myself in the position of other people and feel the impact that my actions may have on them. I do make mistakes.

posted July 15, 2003 03:18 PM              

Ack. I wasn't trying to spark a debate of any sort. I actually thought it was a very simple question. It's the same exact thing as saying 'leos can burn bad'. It's highly generalized,yet somewhat true.

More are: 'scorpios are secretive', ' libras are naive', 'capricorns are goal-oriented'.....

I know everyone lies. I know it's part of human nature. But there are individuals who try to fight lying,or do not attempt to fight it at all. I figured since other facets of one's personality could/can be determined by one's astrological sign/s, then lying could be associated with certain signs,as well. Is this really that hard of a question? I did not in any way at all ask 'Which signs lie and which signs don't?'. . .

posted July 15, 2003 03:31 PM              

and then you get all subjective on peoples personal experiences and start to get into a big mess

If you ask me aspects between planets and transits and situations are more likely to determine wether a person will lie rather than their inherent psychological/astrological makeup.

posted July 15, 2003 03:51 PM              

I would look for aspects to mercury, since mercury is the communicator. I have mercury in gemini and so I have a tough time lying eventually. I truly believe when you wish evil on someone it always stabs you in the back. I either hate/love or nothing. When I feel a strong emotion I look at that and ask myself what it means because usually it means I feel lied to and manipulated. I can lie very easily if I feel I am protecting myself or others which is usually not necessary, so if I feel passionate before speaking I look at my words carefully.

It's okay to avoid questions unless they have to do with emotions, then I am transparent in my relationships. If someone asks me a question that is offbase or comes from nowhere, I will ask where it's coming from, and I try to remember some people pry to show love. Still I am very private physically. Faking it is a lie too, selling out is a lie, some people live a lie. It's easy to live a lie, but not so easy for others who are honest to live with you, and those are the people I want in my life. Scorpios and Libras are pretty honest people in their relationships.

Natasha

posted July 15, 2003 03:58 PM              

When I was talking about the Neptune aspects I meant towards the opposite sex. Some aspects almost determine that you will feel more compelled to lie to the opposite sex for some reason. Basic distrust.

The mercury/neptune conjunction is very important. If it's in Sag maybe that person hates lying because they have been burned before. If it's in Scorpio or Libra, maybe they have learned to lie in their relationships or have been lied to, in the 6th house, will lie, or has been lied to in order to get ahead in work at the expense of others. In the 2nd house will lie or have been lied to about finances/values, and so on. The house is very important. With the conjunction in Scorpio you will see a lot of investigators, police officers but who could also bend the law at work. Knew one such investigator with the Scorp conjunction in the 6th. He was obsessed with others lying to him and so justified bending the law about the privacy of others. I run into a lot of Scorpio conjunctions since I have Neptune in the 12th in Scorpio and privacy is important to me too.

I do not know much about the opposition or the square.

posted July 15, 2003 05:06 PM              

Now I know this because since I was close with them... I got to see how they interact with other people & what they say to them. I hear the evil, but never speak of it... for then they would lose trust for me and hide it from me as well...
I only wonder what they lied to me about

posted July 15, 2003 05:24 PM              

Astro.com is fairly straight. I read the partner forecast and it was really good about saying what I needed to see, the real stuff. I would try out different charts for yourself.

posted July 15, 2003 05:43 PM              

But in your honest opinion, Astro.com is a pretty solid source you believe? I don't know what to trust nowadays...

Back to the lies... I can't help it but this topic has really caught my interest...

posted July 15, 2003 05:51 PM              

Aries (Mar21-Apr 20) - You are the pioneer type and think most people are quick-tempered, impatient, and scornful of advice. You are a prick.

Taurus(Apr 21-May 20) - You are practical and persistent. You have a dogged determination and work like hell. Most people think you are stubborn and bullheaded. You are nothing but a communist.

Gemini (May 21-Jun 20) - You are a quick and intelligent thinker. People like you because you are bisexual. You are inclined to expect too much for too little. This means you are a cheap ******* . Geminis are notorious for thriving on incest.

Cancer (Jun 21-Jul 22) - You are sympathetic and understanding to other peoples problems, which makes you a sucker. You are always putting things off. That is why you will always be on welfare and won't be worth a penny. Everybody in prison is a Cancer.

Leo(Jul 23-Aug 22) - You consider yourself a born leader. Others think you're an idiot. Most Leos are bullies. You are vain and cannot tolerate honest criticism. Your arrogance is disgusting. Leo people are thieving sods and spend most of their lives kissing mirrors. -

Virgo (Aug 23-Sep 22) - You are the logical type and hate disorder. This nitpicking is sickening to your friends. You are cold and unemotional and often fall asleep while having sex. Virgos make good bus drivers and pimps.

Libra (Sep 23-Oct 22) - You are the artistic type and have a difficult time with reality. If you are male, you are probably queer. Chances for employment and monetary gain are nil. Most Libra women are tramps. All Libras die of venereal disease.

Scorpio (Oct 23-Nov 21) - The worst of the lot. You are shrewd in business and cannot be trusted. You shall achieve the pinnacle of success because of your total lack of ethics. You are a perfect S.O.B.. Most Scorpios are murdered.

Sagittarius (Nov 22-Dec 21) - You are optimistic and enthusiastic. You have a reckless tendency to rely on luck since you have no talent. The majority of Sagittarius' are drunks. You are not worth the time of day.

Capricorn (Dec22-Jan 19) - You are conservative and are afraid of taking risks. You are basically spineless. There has never been a Capricorn of any importance. Become a monk.