posted October 07, 2004 05:12 PM              

Okay here it goes,
My mother is a Scorpio/6th house Sun, Pisces/10th house Moon, and Scorpio/6th house Venus, Gemini Ascendant conjunct Uranus. Her Mars is Capricorn/7th house, Mercury Sag/6th house.

Major aspects
Pluto Leo/3rd opposite Jupiter in Aquarius/10th
Uranus Cancer/1st opposite Mars Cap/7th
Venus and Sun in Scorpio square Jupiter
Venus Square Pluto
Mars Square Neptune and Saturn in Libra
Neptune and Saturn in the 5th
Saturn Square Uranus

The only aspects that are not squares or oppositions are
North node in Pisces/10th trine Venus and Sun,
Uranus trine Moon

Her Venus/Pluto aspect especially makes her sabotage relationships that are running smoothly, so anything that's not an argument is boring.

I don't know how to add an image but if you want to see the chart I can post it here.

We are having a number of problems due to my Sun and Saturn in Taurus, and Neptune in Scorpio. She doesn't have anything in her water houses, and acts very un-waterlike for a Scorpio with Pisces moon. Her empathy is lacking.

One of my issues right now has been a constant money drain since Jan, due to one thing or another. As of now I am at the end of my rope, as to cut her off I have to take serious action, as in removing her things from my home without her knowledge.

What would you do?
I have spoken to my ex, a Libra who is well informed about her, he thinks she is vindictive and trying to sabotage her daughter's lives because she is jealous. Is he right? I have to look at this with a clear head as she has never helped me financially, from the start I was raised by my Grandmother, another Scorpio/Aries moon.

Thank you,
I am happy to answer any questions, it's painful but I want this to end finally. I would do anything to end this relationship.

Natasha
Taurus/6th
Cancer Moon/8th
Gemini Mercury/7th
Aries/Venus/4th
Scorpio/12th conjunct Neptune
Sag/Mars/1st

posted October 07, 2004 05:52 PM              

Financially she is not good with her own money, but she feels others do owe her a better life.

Specifically her daughters, My sister, a Sag and myself make her very angry. Her boyfriend told me that I should show her more respect and that she is always complaining about the way we treat her. I thinks he confuses me with my sister.

At this point I really can't just distance myself from her, because her items are in my house. I have to physically move them out, and she will be without furniture or clothing. It's that drastic, unless I can figure out another way.

I cannot communicate with her at all, and she constantly puts me in the position of losing financially when she is involved with me so as to stay in my life.

I need real answers,
Thanks Scorpbaby I appreciate that you have been through the same thing,

DeenSam, Thanks you are right she is chilly,
the challenge is I have to everything myself, nobody wants to get involved with her since she has temper tantrums. I do not look forward to being yelled at by both her and her boyfriend-who is also a lawyer. What would you do excactly? Would you hire someone else?

Natasha

posted October 07, 2004 06:37 PM              

I'll tell it like it is (according to me), without mincing words.

For whatever reason, I had the cojones to emotionally divorce myself from my mother when I was 10 years old. I thought of her as a distant friend for the next 8 years, until she kicked me out of the house.

At 10, I would have have run away completely if your mom was my mom. But I see how you constantly try to help people, even when they just end up becoming lazier around you. I'm not sure if you have issues with assertion. Practice asserting yourself to a poster or a pillow. Needless to say, I would not hesitate getting every single thing of hers out of my home.

As for her, she attracts shady types and has always had problems in relationships. At first she seems like a fine catch, but then all her assets sort of rot in front of the guy. Think of her as someone who used to be your mom, who tried to be a good mom, but then you grew up and became your own caring and gentle mother.

posted October 07, 2004 07:04 PM              

Maybe I need legal advice at this point,
Yes Mars in Cap/7th is very different than me with men, her values are different than mine although I am not judging, I think that is only a bad aspect when combined with her tantrums and laziness. Her boyfriend is very threatening towards me and to be honest I don't like being near him.

The weird thing about mars in the 7th is the empathy towards the opposite sex, but very little towards those of the same sex. My ex has Libra Mars/7th house and he has no empathy for other men but will do anything for a woman.

I will have to get my ex involved and that means emotionally he will be stuck on me for a while, which I don't like.

By this time next year I hope she is out of my life forever, and doesn't call me again, but I said that last year.

I am giving this situation two weeks, after that if things don't work out, I will end all association, currently she is borrowing my car so there's not much I can do. She knows she has to bring it back by the 23rd and that's D-Day.

Yes I know, don't let her borrow your car, she didn't say she wouldn't bring it back right away, she means well but she is evasive until pinned down. I just thought I could trust my own mother, but I guess I was totally wrong. I've already threatened to call the police if she doesn't bring it back by the 23rd. (See at least I got assertive finally) Her own car's engine blew when she put too much oil into it.

Thanks for the support but I think I need legal help at this point,

Any lawyers?
I am totally serious about the D-Day, but I am afraid I may blow it before then and she may take off and wreck my car.

This wasn't easy for me, to talk about, so if I am serious enough to ask for help, then I am serious about ending my relationship with her..but it's a very stressful time for me.

I don't know what's happening astrologically, but all the planets in Libra do not mean a love fest for me, just the opposite, I've never been angrier.
This is probably the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with.

posted October 07, 2004 08:13 PM              

You and I are SO opposite when it comes to stuff like this. Why are you bringing your ex into it? Why make this thing even bigger? I don't get you when it comes to stuff like this.

You continually volunteer to be someone's doormat! It makes me crazy!! Why?

And then turning it into a legal thing, more money down the drain, and dragging her boyfriend into it ... it's becoming much too much emotional drama. Don't you know how to just solve the problem in a simple way? If a genie granted you a wish and solved all your problems, would you be going out finding more because you need the chaos?

I don't get it.

It's not HER fault, OR your boyfriend's fault, OR her boyfriend's fault. It's YOUR fault for letting her in your house. So why don't you just quit while you're ahead?

Tell her to leave! If she doesn't, move out to your own studio apartment, put your stuff in storage, and stick a FOR SALE sign on the front lawn. F@ck it!

posted October 07, 2004 08:52 PM              

Best thing I ever did was take time off from her...yes, it was quite a few years...eventually there was peace-but boy, did I LOVE that peace and quiet in my life during that sabbatical....just accepting that I did not win the lottery with the Mom ticket was hard...I always have felt cheated...and eventually realized that there were lessons my soul chose to learn...(Who's dumb idea was that anyway?? Did I actually chose this cold-hearted lady to be my mom?? LOL)

Basically, when you are a child, you have no choice. Now, You are a grown woman and you must make your own choices.

Stick with your boundaries...forget the guilt associated with making these hard decisions...it is worth feeling guilty for 1 day vs feeling like a door mat for another year!!!!!!

There is a book called Toxic Parents (I think)...might be good to read it.

At this point,(sorry this is so direct) you are an Enabler. The cycle continues as long as you continue doing the same ol' same ol'. Break the cycle and don't look back.

There IS a line that can be crossed where unconditional love becomes too costly for you. Costly in too many ways...money, involving others, you are not really doing any good for your mother...(who by the way will probably NEVER be happy no matter what you do for her...it will never be enough). Take, take and more take. She will never take responsibility for her life as long as she can dump it on you. You have your own life to live...LET GO OF HERS...RELEASE...

OK-What do you think of the idea to contact a Womens' Crisis Center...they may be able to give you guidance as to attorneys, solutions for the interim...think about it.

Or, just pack her stuff up, get your keys and anything else that is yours, change your locks...pay for one night at a nearby hotel and tell her to figure it out from there.

THERE...solved in one day.

*****Actually, you are taking on liability if your mom gets into an accident with your vehicle and someone sues...more trouble you don't need.

AND...what is the deal with the loser boyfriend...??? What a crappy scenario. Yuck.

So sorry again...but I have faith that you have had your fill and are ready to do the necessary...gather your strength, take a deep breath, stay in control and start walking through the flames...YOU MUST do this...no one else can do it for you.
Only you...you do not need anyone else to help you...just do it.

posted October 07, 2004 10:46 PM              

When I asked my uncles for help with her six months ago, they told me it was my fault, now they are telling me the same thing. It's very hard to believe that person who is your mother would purposely hurt me, she must dislike me very much, and that means she is a very fake person.

The idea that she has been faking being my friend all this time, just to get what she could from me is terrible. I can't image it. She is manipulative, she has no boundaries or emotions where I am concerned at all, it's as if she really hates me.

Feeling that much hate from someone, especially a Scorpio is very intense. I feel very negative whenever I have to deal with her.

The only reason I did anything for her was for my little brother, He is a real sweetie but my mother uses him to gain sympathy from me since she knows how much I worry about him. That was the one and only reason.

Right now, I just want someone I know to help me get my car back, and right now everyone I know is saying you need to suffer right now to learn your lesson. I have been learning for two years, but I can't get anyone to help me move her things, trust me when I say as soon as I set things up if I'm not there she talks and charms her way out of everything. I can't compete with her in anyway, she always wins in every situation, because she will fight to the death.

This woman will fight me on every petty issue until I am a wreck, nobody I know will get involved.

I talked to a friend tonight, he said he would never get involved with this because of my mother's temper, he didn't even want to talk to me about it, or see me again until she was gone.

That's not hugely supportive, how can I fight a woman who has so much energy? As for taking back my car, I have to take a bus 7 hours and hope my car is where it usually is and take it. Then I have to change the locks and hope she doesn't cause a fuss. Right.

Then try and go about my life as she hounds me non stop. My ex would like to help and I do want his help, because I can't confront my mother when she rages and screams, by myself. BUT he can't get involved.

So, all I can say is that if you are looking for support when confronting a Scorpio, you won't get it, everyone who hears about her hates her, but Gloria, if you met her, you'd be charmed right off the batt, she is looks like an angel-Until she has few drinks, that's a problem for her. She had stopped drinking, but now the sag boyfriend is encouraging her in that direction again.

So I am doing my best, I will let you know how everything turns out, it can only turn out one way eventually, but I hope I survive in the meantime.

posted October 07, 2004 11:51 PM              

Try not to feel overwhelmed by the whole situation...take one step at a time...baby steps and one plus one begins to add up in the right direction...

Look no further for the answer...you already know and so does everyone else...

No one gives your power away but you...No one knows how deep you can dig but you...and now you will find out...

PS-(One hint-try to disengage your emotions...the disappointment, disbelief, pain, sadness, frustration etc...I think you are a Pisces so search for the part of you that has Scorp (all 12 signs being a part of Pisces) strength...and find your black and white...you've done your part...Remember, Giving up does not necessarily mean you are weak, sometimes it means you are Strong enough to Let Go...

Dig in deep Natasha..we KNOW you can do it.
(Emphasis on YOU.)

Everything will be OK...

posted October 08, 2004 12:47 AM            

I can't speak for those in your life, but as for what I'm reading here, I don't think anyone is telling you, "oh well, you signed up for it, you deserve it". What I'm hearing is, "you signed up for it, it is entirely within your control to stop it - just do it".

I would keep it in the back of your head that you may require the services of an attorney, for the mere fact that her bf is one, and can decide to be a real prick - they can cause a lot of trouble, even if it's baseless. They know how to use the system to harass people. But don't let that scare you, because it's also a risk to him to conduct himself that way too, so...

What I would do is this: I would pick a day, pack her things when she's not there, and advise her that she needs to move out when she returned. I would demand the car keys from her at that time (it's up to you whether you want to do this immediately or stick w/ the original "D Day" and risk damage to your car), with a cordless phone in my hand, ready to dial the cops if I had to. If she took off with the car, I would warn her as she left that I was going to call it in stolen, and if she left anyway, I would do just that. It's time for tough love.

I would also change the locks, in case she or her bf have made any copies.

If her bf harasses you legally, see an attorney. If you mother or her bf harasses you verbally or physically, call the police. You don't have to run away from your own home to do this, you just have to be strong. Draw on your anger, disappointment, etc, when the time comes. Sometimes that's what it's for - to motivate you to do tough things that your softer emotions irrationally don't want you to do.

And know that you deserve better than this.

Get your best friend or a good male friend to come over when you do the deed, for moral support, as a witness, and for protection if necessary. It's your home, your car, you just need to reassert your power over your life, and realize that your mother is never going to be the mother you'd like. Maybe she will be, but she certainly won't get there while being enabled by you or others. Finally, get to counselling to help you work through it all.

posted October 08, 2004 05:39 AM              

Sending you light and love so that you may find a way out of this gut-wrenching predicament.

I don't want to be seen as just another person giving you advice, yet, I felt compelled to reply to your thread because I AM a Scorpio mum (Libra Asc, Aries Moon).

Right now, I want to jump on a plane and come to help you. Nothing better than getting a Scorp to help you face another Scorp. But geographically and financially, that is not possible. Though Natasha, I am there (as I expect so are a lot of others on this thread) in spirit to help you.

I don't know anything about your mom (apart from what you've said here). Yes we can be manipulative people in general, but we are also usually very protective of our offspring. Obviously your mom's wheels have fallen off somewhere and I have to say I cringed when you mentioned her Sag boyfriend. They are very clever with words (and if he's a lawyer to boot), you can bet that he's feeding her a load of crap too.

I'm not so much concerned as to why it happened or what lessons you are or are not learning from it. My concern is what we can do to help you.

So, where can you go for free help?

I agree, the Police is a good start. Even if it's just for advice.

And how about a local church? Though I feel odd suggesting this, because I am by no means religious myself.

Or what about a Government department (here we would call it the Department of Human Services).

A neighbour? A friend's father?

I am sorry and disappointed for you that no family are stepping up to the plate to assist you.

Actually, perhaps the best person to assist you is your sister (and your brother for that matter). You sound as if you almost need an intervention with her. Imagine the strength in getting the siblings to unite against her.

I know you have come to your wit's end about this but I don't think throwing her stuff on the pavement is the answer. Though I agree, it's time to get her out of your house.

Natasha, I wish you a happy ending with this, even though I know you will need to go through some more pain first.

If you need anything from cyberspace....I would love to help.

posted October 08, 2004 11:43 PM              

When I read your first message about your mother's chart positions I wrote a page of interpretation in answer to your question.

However, I then read down the thread and decided not to post it. It was a neutral and fair interpretation but I feel there is little to be gained at this point from further analysing your mother's motives and needs. YOUR needs are the ones that have not been sufficiently addressed by your relatives so far. This is more likely a time for practical advice - as some very kind and thoughtful people on this thread have recognised and addressed.

I agree with what has been said - especially the advice from Eleanore and Purple-Scorp. I thought the advice about approaching your local church was particularly clever. Again, I do not subscribe to an organised religion but the church can be a strong source of support and can prove a surprisingly powerful trump card in more ways than one.

posted October 09, 2004 11:36 AM              

When you are dealing with a mother, most are reluctant to say anything negative.

I will most likely end up changing the locks, and calling the police, to be honest I dont' feel safe any other way. It's the only thing that my Scorpio mother respects-threats. She doesn't respond to anything rational. My sister called me to tell me she has cut her off, and won't let her near her children, and in return my mother threatened her. That tells me I can't trust anyone to intervene for me as they will alert her to my state of mind. Better to act quickly.

I will let everyone know how it turns out, but I do have the house up for sale, by owner. It's very difficult selling a home under these circumstances, but I did it with ex when he refused to move when I sold our home. I just have to be patient and remember that it will be sold regardless of anything else.

My sister's support meant a lot to me, because I believe we have to be united on this.

posted October 09, 2004 08:52 PM              

I don't trust him, I don't like to be around drugs ever, and I have to run a business, I can't deal with her and him together right now. I told her she couldn't live anywhere near me, but she insisted she had no place to go and used my little brother to plead her case.

I hope he sees the light soon, and she will be alone, because she truly doesn't deserve anyone who is loving or real, she is too toxic. I really find that some Scorpio women are wonderful to their children, but some hate them, she's the latter. Her children were always parasites to her, robbing her of her youth, looks, and opportunities. She really hates me more than I can describe. And being a Taurus I can't stand being hated personally.

I am just praying to sell the house quickly, and then I will sue her. The good news is that this has brought my sister, a Sag/Taurus moon, and I closer together. I am glad she has decided not to let my mother visit her and her children anymore. I am totally convinced my mother is an addict, either to drinking again or something else.

I can't express how much stressed I get around drugs, and those who use them around me. I could lose everything if anyone thought I was involved with drugs as well, I can't take that chance. I don't want the association.

Thanks again,
Nothing can happen until next weekend, and then after that, I will have news, I will get through this, and afterwards I will visit my sister and we will have a long talk and visit.

posted October 09, 2004 10:28 PM              

I for one think your emotional health, and your physical welfare is WAY more important than bricks & mortar, which CAN be replaced. And one is DEFINITELY more expensive than the other.

We cannot replace Natasha. We need you to be strong for us, your babies, (at least me)... hee hee ... heart & mind over matter all the way!!

Your time, your money, and your health are more important now. Haggling with idiots gets you nothing but a cardiac arrest.

Keep it simple Natasha.