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Author Topic:   Chiron in aspect to Saturn

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From: New Brighton, MN, USA
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posted October 05, 2005 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The following is from the book "Chiron-Transforming Bridge Between the Inner and Outer Planets" by Barbara Hand Clow:
As we slowly weave our way from the Sun out through the inner planets, we finally approach the outermost of the inner planets—Satum. Saturn is the last planet visible to the naked eye. It rules linear time, structure, and form in this solar system, and it contains the energies of all the inner planets around the Sun. But with its eventual return to its natal position at around the age of 29, human consciousness is prepared to break through the leaden form of Saturn and experience the outer planets within the essence of the human body. Before 30, Saturn is like a lead shield holding out the galactic resonances radiating through the outer planets. Saturn contains within physical essence the energies of the inner planets and the Earth and Moon to the Sun. We cannot know who we really are without our spirituality, the real meaning of our existence since the beginning of creation. Our spiritual connection happens when the Saturnian lead shield dissipates and the Sun shines through the inner planets out to the outer planets.
It is time to examine Chiron aspects to Saturn and Uranus, and then to Neptune, Pluto and the Lunar Nodes. The trilogy of Satum/Chiron/Uranus offers wisdom in itself. Chiron's orbit is very elliptical, moving out to the orbit of Uranus, but not crossing the orbital path. However, Chiron goes inside the orbit of Saturn when it moves to its perihelion; that is, Chiron pierces the lead shield of Saturn. As we work with aspects to Saturn it is imperative that we comprehend the meaning of this piercing of the Saturnian lead form. This piercing is what initiation is; this energy expresses the power of Uranus to rearrange the electrical neurological systems. This part of Chiron's path proves that there is no such thing as determinism, fate, or moira, as Saturn linear time is pierced by Chiros or spherical time. This is the spiraling of experience, the critical leap of total creativity which affirms that anything is possible.
Natives with aspects between Chiron and Saturn experience break-through from Earth forms and linear time to creativity, but like all breakthroughs, it is hard work When Chiron affects Saturn by aspect, Saturn has a different dimension than usual. Without aspects between Saturn and Chiron, and also Chiron aspects to Uranus and Uranus to Saturn, the progress of Saturn development is quite predictable, and the native is comfortable with Saturnian growth. When there are aspects to Chiron, the native isn't so confident about predictable patterns. The native has difficulty trusting; he or she usually has serious conflicts with one or both parents, and may project the early home conflicts onto society at large. However, this early and deep distrust of Saturnian fixed form tends to yield openness and creativity after the Saturn return. That is, the psyche is less shielded in lead than usual. At the return the native balances the need for using Saturnian form and structure, and then is more free than most to respond to the outer planets. The aspecting Chiron functions as a constant initiator, moving consciousness out of fixed ruts.
Health is ultimately a question of biological balance, and biological balance has a lot to do with steady and powerful Saturnian growth and Uranian electrical activation of new cellular production and neurological structural reorganization. As we know from science, everything is completely new in the human body every seven years; every cell is new. New birth cannot occur without death. Chiron is in relationship to the seven-year Uranus cycle which contains a Saturn square to Saturn within each seven-year Uranian sign transit. Chiron rules the process of complete letting go of old forms so that new and vital birth can occur. It is the process of learning to trust, of going forward even when we aren't sure why. Then the new issues have space.
Chiron rules the healing principle, which is a function of both Saturnian control and Uranian electrical vitalization. Chiron is the key to finding that balance. The sighting is a signal that we must begin to know when to heal and when to let go. For example, antibiotics can heal, but they can be used as a control mechanism in the environment. The struggle of the immune system is subverted by overuse of antibiotics. Now after 40 years of antibiotics, we are seeing severe malfunctions, such as AIDS, in the immune system. In my opinion, the physical environment is on the verge of teaching the race that the immune system itself must be trusted, that total control (or Saturn) by scientists and physicians will never work. Also, medical astrologers should take note of the times when Saturn's lead shield is pierced by Chiron. This cycle will yield clues to cancer radiation cures. Radiation cannot pierce lead. A better piercing mechanism will be coming into medicine with radionics or some other technique which is Uranian.
Now that we can also use Chiron for health research, the true need for trust in the universe or Eros will come into balance with control, or Thanatos. Astrologers interested in health should begin Chiron work immediately so that more information will be available on these critical issues. The aspects between Saturn and Chiron are the key to many of these questions.

Chiron conjunct Saturn is a very rare aspect. In recent times it has occurred in 20 to 28 degrees of Pisces. The conjunction occurred in 1672,1820, and 1966, and this conjunction occurs every 147 years during each third Chiron cycle corresponding to five Saturn cycles. I do not have a Chiron program on my computer, and I can't go back before 1672. But, I think it would be fascinating to see if the Chiron conjunct Saturn every 145-150 years has occurred in Pisces during the Age of Pisces. I sense there are some very important great cycles to be revealed by researchers. 1966 was the year of the flower children in Haight-Ashbury, and it was a period of general stress between parents and children in America over the Vietnam War and drug experimentation. It was a year when many people in their twenties completely let go of the "law of the father" or Saturn, or any semblance of trust in the older generation. In 1819-1820, there was a mystical movement for liberation from economic stratification in upstate New York. Later, many of the young individuals who participated in trying to loosen society almost went mad because they lost employment, and severe economic depression had set in by 1835. There are many parallels in the liberation movements of 1820 and 1966.
Zane Stein reported on a recent survey of individuals born during the 1966 conjunction in Essence and Application: A View from Chiron. I did three charts of babies with this conjunction who were born to mothers in 1966, and I observed the families from 1966 until 1972 when I moved from the West Coast to the East. As of 1986, these children are obviously only 20. 1 feel confident about describing their early environment and the logical results from it because my own feelings match the survey reported upon by Zane Stein. Many clients come to me around age 27-29 and then 37-42, and I will not have much data on this group until about 1995. Zane Stein reports, "All seemed to have an extremely low opinion of their fathers, and this included those who lived with stepfathers, and adopted fathers. On the other hand, there was an uncommon feeling of warmth toward their mothers." The three families I observed were exceedingly unstable. 1966-1972 were years of tremendous societal breakdown which damaged young families. The sixties were when the Welfare State system weakened already shaky families in America. Drug and sexual experimentation was the norm rather than the exception, and I strongly doubt that many of these children lived long with their birth fathers. In one family, the mother and father had separated by the time the baby was two. One of the women was unmarried when her daughter was born and thought nothing of sleeping with many different men while her child was in the same bed. I strongly suspect sexual abuse of this child.
On a brighter note, this conjunction is a potentially powerful stabilizing energy for these children. They were born during a time of societal breakdown probably triggered by the conjunction itself. When they have experienced the Saturn return, I believe they will be leaders in creating structures which also contain healing and higher consciousness energies.

Chiron sextile Saturn is a powerful aspect which exemplifies the mature and productive qualities of Saturn and stabilizes Chiron. There is a tendency for Saturn to be stronger than Chiron, as Zane Stein noted, but I believe that is because the Saturn archetype is so well defined in consciousness, and the Chiron archetype is just emerging. Normally, two planets in sextile are balanced. As a result of the absence of a Chiron archetype in the collective, the tendency is toward over-pragmatism, i.e. the native is attuned to Chirotic energy but tries too hard to nail it down. The tendency is toward too much left brain identification and too little intuition.
A well-known and excellent medical astrologer has Chiron in the sixth in Leo sextile Saturn in the fourth in Gemini. She has great healing skills but she tends to shut down her ability to heal intuitively by analyzing her work. Her written work is of great value. Occasionally she is overwhelmed by Chiron funneling into her integrative and communicative Saturn, and she accomplishes remarkable physical healings. I would predict that she will be stimulated by right brain energy at her Chiron return in August 1993 and become a great physical healer, since her
North Node is in Virgo in the sixth house. She will experience her Chiron return and then transiting Chiron conjunct the North Node.
Chiron Square Saturn. Chiron was repeatedly square Saturn from 1935 to 1939, and from 1945 to 1952. Many of my clients were born during those years, and this aspect functions as a generational influence as well as an individual one. That is, many people during those years had a very difficult childhood with intense stress with the dominant parent. Ordinarily Saturn would rule the father, but from 1945.1952 the mothers assumed a very controling and dominant role after WWII, causing Saturn in the natal chart to describe the mother. The early childhood environment was extremely difficult with this aspect, and yet these natives possess uncanny insight about the true nature of the reality around themselves. Many lack essential balancing psychodynamic aspects of character, but if they can heal their lack of balance, they will have keener insight than most. Many of them will have sought out different forms of counseling to heal themselves, and will blossom when they hear about the Chiron archetype. They will have already accomplished some of the work on the squaring tension; and with understanding of Saturn and Chiron they can become adept at grounding Chirotic force.
Chart 5, the guru, was born under an earlier series of squares between Saturn and Chiron. He has the Saturn square from the eighth house which intensifies his desire to activate mysticism through the feminine from the North Node conjunction to Venus in the fifth house. From a positive perspective, he can really ground Earth energy in ritual. From a negative perspective, he has become an ego-inflated guru because he has attracted so many followers who need a father substitute and who follow him blindly. He is an interesting case because he is entering old age, and ideally his Saturn in the eighth house squaring Chiron/North Node in the fifth would mature him into a great, wise old-man teacher. Also of interest is the fact that he has experienced great stress with his children, which cut him off from the potential teaching coming from being a parent. He allowed his passion for the occult (the eighth house Saturn, Neptune conjunct the Midheaven, Jupiter conjunct Uranus, and Pluto retrograde in the ninth) to occupy all his time, and he neglected his need for the hearth and children (Sun, Venus and Chiron conjunct the North Node in the fifth house).
The next group with Chiron square Saturn was born between 1935-39. This group is very interesting because some are now close to
the Chiron return, and all have experienced Uranus opposition. They are a good predictor of the future energy from this aspect because the intensity of this aspect increases with the number of years of living for these natives after Chiron's sighting. Just like Pluto since 1930, Chiron's impact will greatly intensify as the archetype manifests in the collective. Also, many natives from 1935-36 have a T-square formation with Neptune opposite Saturn squaring Chiron. Neptune opposite Saturn of 1935-36 was a potent introducer of the power of Chiron because Neptune was in Virgo in 1928-1943, and it tended to be an early Chirotic space and time locator of cosmic energies while the collective was assimilating the sighting of Pluto. The stage has been carefully prepared on more levels than many of us comprehend. The universe is unfolding as a great synchronistic creative act.
The native of Chart 42 is a man who went all the way up to his final vows as a Jesuit by the time of his Saturn return, but felt he needed psychoanalysis in order to be a complete person. The Jesuits denied him analysis, and he dropped out of the order rather than become a neurotic and destructive force. His need to ground spirituality is powerfully illustrated by Neptune near the Midheaven opposite Saturn in Pisces in the depths of the fourth house. His father problem was and is acute, and he sought a relationship with a woman (Chiron in the seventh) for healing rather than allow the Church to substitute for his neurotic and cold father. Sun conjunct Jupiter in Capricorn in the second seems to be dominant because he has since been in Freudian analysis for almost twelve years, but at least he avoided the substitution of one neurotic father for another through his potential personal use of the Church. His Chiron return will be the ultimate release of his spirituality, which is locked into Neptune opposite Saturn, and finally mystical breakthrough will be his way.
Chart 14, an author and nun, shows a fascinating similarity in life path with the Jesuit. This time Neptune is in the first, and this author found herself as an artist while she was in the convent (Saturn in Pisces in the seventh—Bride of God) but she left her convent in 1980 when Chiron transited Uranus in the ninth house. Then Chiron manifested in a major book on God as a mother figure at her Chiron return.
As we get closer to Chiron's sighting in 1977, natives with Chiron square Saturn from 1945-52 show an increasing tendency to embody the healing and alchemical side of Chiron. I have always been intrigued by the extreme negativity about Saturn, particularly in Roman and Greek astrology, since I have had such a positive experience with Saturn in my own life. Now I see that I have always been very sensitive to Chiron because it is conjunct my North Node, and Saturn balancing has saved me from possible mental illness. Now that we have the Chiron archetype to bridge Saturn and Uranus, negativity about Saturn has lessened.
Regarding the same cosmic dilation before the birth of Pluto, I attended a lecture in 1981 in which a Jungian analyst said we had really come a long way because the unconscious had only been discovered in 1910 by Jung! Of course, the unconscious has always been there; only a Jungian analyst could come up with such an arrogant remark. But, the point is that the archetype of the unconscious ruled by Pluto flooded the collective as the sighting of Pluto approached. Exactly the same phenomenon is occurring with Chiron, and the group bom with Chiron square Saturn are heavy carriers for introducing the qualities of Chirotic force. Many of these natives began New Age healing and bridging movements in the fall of 1977. The theologian of Chart 17 has Saturn/Jupiter square Chiron/Pluto, and he started a major teaching movement in the fall of 1977. Chart 8, Hermetic teacher, has Saturn in Virgo in a major grand square with Chiron in Capricorn. This native's father abandoned her at a very young age. The priest of Chart 37, who leads transmutative healing walks, has Chiron in the first square Saturn in the tenth, and his father was wrenched out of a normal guiding role for him because this priest grew up in a family of migrant farm workers. Chart 10, a higher consciousness publisher, has Saturn in Virgo close square Chiron in the tenth. He is expressing his healing powers in his publishing work, but his Saturnian mother has her North Node in Virgo close to his Saturn, and she restricts his healing expression. Yet, his work is part of her realization process. In this case, the mother energy is attached to Saturn, and also the father was mostly absent from the family. Chart 43, a healer who specializes in restructuring the hologram of consciousness, has Saturn in Virgo in the eleventh square Chiron retrograde in the third. His Chiron is sextile Jupiter retrograde forming a Yod to Uranus in 29 degrees Gemini in the ninth house. Once this young healer figured out how to focus Chirotic force, his aim was remarkable.
Chiron trine Saturn produces a magnetic and charismatic personality which can result in gross manipulative tendencies in the native, or conversely, the potential for a compassionate heart. This native is never ordinary; he or she will tend to get away with murder because of a natural magical presence. This native usually lives in an auric field isolation much of the time, and it becomes natural to have his or her own way.
The trine tends to ground Chirotic power into the life like a lightning rod striking a transformer. These natives are not always very well liked, and yet they always get what they want. Chart 35, Jim Jones of Jonestown, has Chiron in the fourth, Sun in the fifth trine Saturn in the first. John Kennedy had Chiron in the fifth trine Saturn in the ninth. Chart 11, a physician, has Chiron in Pisces in the eleventh trine Saturn retrograde right at the IC, which generated a great Oedipal complex, but this complex bears a peculiar intensity due to the Chiron trine. When I saw him at age 76, he was still completely obsessed with a fascination for his mother, and his relationships with authority were riddled with father projection.
This aspect bears watching, and astrologers can assist clients by pointing out to them that they possess a magical, alchemical aura so that they can better understand how people respond to their energy. If this magical grounding energy can be contained within the boundaries of the native, then it is a great gift. I have some remarkable child clients with this position, and they are handling it very well now that the archetype is working in the collective. The trine was in effect in 1916-17,1930-31, and 1978-79.
Chiron quincunx Saturn creates an unavoidable need to ground Chiron to the Earth plane by means of Saturn. It is simply essential to create a vehicle for alchemical change on the Earth plane. R.D. Laing, healer of schizophrenics (Chart 31), has Chiron retrograde in the first quincunx Saturn in the eighth in Sagittarius. He was driven to find a way to free schizophrenics from the ordinary definitions of behavior that were clearly killing them. Chart 15, a priest working with Native American rituals, is another example. This native has Chiron in a stellium in the tenth with Jupiter/Mars/Chiron quincunx Saturn in Sagittarius in the fifth, and he was driven to break through old ritual forms and bring in creativity.
Chiron opposite Saturn creates realization of alchemical wisdom in form—or the native may be a rigid fighter for humanitarian causes. Like the imbalance in the sextile of Chiron to Saturn due to the power of Saturn in the collective and almost no understanding of the Chiron archetype, this group tends to heavily favor Saturn in the opposition. I have been able to carefully observe about ten individuals with this aspect who were bom in 1922-24 because one of my close relatives was bom then and she has introduced me to her classmates. They are very conservative with Pluto in Cancer and Uranus in Pisces, and I was not in a position to request their time of birth. As a group they are philanthropists yet are very poor parents. They are consumed with saving society according to their own patterns, and have a remarkably low ability to learn from their own children. The mother of the publisher with Chiron square Saturn has this opposition. Almost all of them grew up with severe and cold fathers which few of them could recover from, and almost all have experienced severe difficulties with alcoholism. It would appear that Saturn killed Chiron, that energy died in their system and they fell into a total Saturn grip.
Saturn has been opposite Chiron in January, February, and March of 1986, January and March 1987, and will be in January 1988 and December 1988. So far, the energy has felt like structural breakdown, like a spinning vortex that will destory as it intensifies unless the energy is very clear. It seems to signal major shifts in technology as shown by the automobilization of America in the 1920s and the explosion of Challenger in late January of 1986. This is an aspect that makes or breaks people. Columnist Jack Anderson is a good example of the positive power of this aspect.
The Challenger explosions signaled the end of the unbridled love affair with technology, since the primary purpose of the launch was research for the Star Wars Defense Initiative. Space technology should be carefully observed during the rest of the oppositions because it would appear that the higher forces are intervening to prevent the militarization of space. It is, of course, impossible to draw conclusions yet from the children born during the 1986-88 opposition. But couples are often much more careful about having children now, and fathers are often playing a very nurturing role in culture. Parents themselves are potentially the ultimate Chiron figures if they are capable of holding the highest potential level of consciousness for their children. Perhaps the children bom during the Chiron opposition to Saturn in the late 1980s will bring in the high side of the opposition with parental support. What would it be? The ability to bring the soul into the physical body.

Thoughts, anyone??

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posted October 05, 2005 11:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm...that's an odd one. Chiron Sextile Saturn. Seems like the definition is limited. I guess a Saturn enhancement is good, though.

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posted October 09, 2005 09:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for devi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for taking the time to post these. They seem to ring very true, and I think I need to buy the book.


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posted March 09, 2006 04:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chiron trine Saturn

they possess a magical, alchemical aura so that they can better understand how people respond to their energy.


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posted July 08, 2008 05:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

with all the chiron in the forum - this one was next.

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posted July 08, 2008 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for oneruledbymars     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol, this one is kewl.
I guess I can see why some people dont like
me and some things I need to be more careful of since mine is Trine.

Aries Sun
Moon Sag
Scorpio Rising

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posted July 08, 2008 12:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, what negative stuff about Chiron conjunct Saturn... I don't find it to be true (I had a loving home), so I don't know what to think, really.

I am wondering what orb the writer used in her studies, as many people born in 1965 (not just 1966) also have Chiron conjunct Saturn, in my own case the orb is 6 deg.

I have a Chiron&Saturn conjunction in Pisces in the 8th house opposing my Sun&Uranus conjunction in Virgo - can anyone beat that...?

Edited: I forgot that I also have Uranus conjunct Pluto, so Pluto adds its force to the equation...

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posted July 08, 2008 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Love     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is my most exact Chiron aspect: Saturn square Chiron, 0 degree orb. The interpretation was definitely true for me, although I feel like there's even more to it than what was written. Is there more in the book?

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Geocosmic Valentine

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posted July 08, 2008 02:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, my brother and a very close female cousin were both born in April and May of 1966, both have the Chiron-Saturn conjunction. My brother's is exact with an orb of 9 minutes. His relationship with our father is pretty much over. Our father could be classified as irrationally tyrranical with his temper. Our parents separated when I was 13, he was 14, we both lived with our father. My brother left home permanently during the December before he graduated from high school because he couldn't stand living with my father for one more day.

My female cousin's father left her mother when she was nearly 6 years old. He moved out of state but stayed in their lives. As she got older they had many extreme conflicts over the way she lived her life (which is quite conservative and sane) and she had to threaten him many times with the complete dissolution of their relationship including no access to his grandchildren unless he ceases the ignorant form of critism he constantly chooses to try and influence her choices in life.

I think we have to remember that Chiron is an asteroid (or is it a planetoid now? I think it is) and that it requires a tighter than usual orb, so my thought is that a 6 degree conjunction is wide enough to avoid the the most negative or painful effects of it's energy.

And to give the Magi some credit here, I have experienced my brother's Saturn conjunct my Chiron as, what the Magi call a "Heartbreak Clash" aspect. At the age of 24, my brother did something so intimately damaging to me (it would be equivalent to a heartbreak) that our relationship will never be as close or the same because I no longer trust him as someone who values my physical or psychological well being.

The rest of the explaination is true in that he is a leader in his field, very successful in business and has built a strong structure for his life. I don't know if he would describe it this way, but I think that our father's shoulders (as represented by Saturn) is the structure he stands on.

Geocosmic Valentine
Professional Astrologer

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heart cakes
posted July 08, 2008 02:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what do you think of a 7 degree orb for a trine? it might even be 6-something. i can't remember.

that description seemed eerily accurate!

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Geocosmic Valentine

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posted July 08, 2008 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi HeartCakes,

I'm of 2 minds about your orb for the trine. My first thought is that 7 degrees is pretty wide even for 2 regular planets and since Chiron is only an asteroid or planetoid, you want to tighten the orb to about 2 or 3 degrees.

My I also think that in astrology sometimes you have to say, "If the shoe fits, wear it." I would check you entire chart first to see if the basic aspects between your regular planets, ASC axis and MC axis aren't already expressing what you feel the Chiron-Saturn trine is expressing. The Chiron-Saturn trine might just be an echo of another strong aspect in your chart.

Geocosmic Valentine

"Everybody is a star!"
Sly & The Family Stone

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heart cakes
posted July 08, 2008 05:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks geo! i was born in early '79 and she mentions the trine occurring in 78-79, so maybe she uses a wider orb?

but, factoring in other chart aspects, i can see how they fit within this description:

Chiron trine Saturn produces a magnetic and charismatic personality which can result in gross manipulative tendencies in the native, or conversely, the potential for a compassionate heart. (* i have venus conjunct ascendant, neptune in the 12th, AC is their midpoint, 5 deg orb from each*) This native is never ordinary; he or she will tend to get away with murder because of a natural magical presence. (* i don't actually feel like i get away with murder! almost to the contrary actually. *) This native usually lives in an auric field isolation much of the time, and it becomes natural to have his or her own way. (* well, i have mercury and mars in exact conjunction in aquarius, conjunct my sun by 4 degrees. so yeah i usually want, and get, my own way. but that usually means doing my own thing; not interfering or usurping another person's way or happiness to get it. i'm pretty stubborn about doing things my own way though. also my moon is in taurus. heheh. stubborn all the way. my isolation i think is largely due to saturn conjunct NN in the 8th.*)
The trine tends to ground Chirotic power into the life like a lightning rod striking a transformer. These natives are not always very well liked, and yet they always get what they want. (* people usually love me or feel threatened -i think?- by me. people rarely have a mild opinion of me. i do feel a lot of it has to do with my uncompromising independence and kooky aquarian ways. and perhaps the many trines to my pluto. i guess in some ways i'm very plutonic without being fully conscious of it.*)

so you're right - it looks like maybe those aspects could describe this feeling! what do you think?

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posted July 08, 2008 11:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mhax     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have an exact trine with Saturn and Chiron

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posted July 09, 2008 01:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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posted July 09, 2008 01:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Chiron is opposite my Saturn, With Chiron in Leo and Saturn in Aquarius. 6 degrees

Sun: Pisces
Moon: Libra
Rising: Scorpio

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posted November 13, 2008 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kfn327     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Chiron in Gemini (16) opposite Saturn in Sagittarius (21).

Here is what I agree with:

the native may be a rigid fighter for humanitarian causes

I am only beginning to gain hold of my intolerance of intolerance.

As a group they are philanthropists yet are very poor parents

I don't have children, but my sister has told me that I shower strangers with kindness at a level that's beyond what I shower my loved ones with.

grew up with severe and cold fathers which few of them could recover from

My dad wasn't cruel, but he was extremely distant and cold (Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Libra, Sagittarius rising).

and almost all have experienced severe difficulties with alcoholism


March 1987

Date of birth: 3/27/1987.

a spinning vortex that will destroy as it intensifies unless the energy is very clear

I've been told I'm overwhelming/exhausting. And like most, I am my own worst enemy.

This is an aspect that makes or breaks people

I think it's "making" me.

The ability to bring the soul into the physical body

This is what I strive toward every day.

Lastly: Someone in another thread told me that this opposition points to trust issues. What do you think?

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Seeing Stars 7.21

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posted November 14, 2008 03:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Seeing Stars 7.21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
born in July of '88 I also identify strongly with the opposition. Im definetley humanitarian. sometimes I do feel like Saturn killed chiron. severe cold father? yes, more unpredictable. coincidentally a Capricorn, Aries Moon. have had problems with alcohol. a spinning vortex that destroys as it intensifies, unfortunatley yes. its kind of like hit and miss. at times I feel a very unforgiving cold cruel saturn grip and other times more worldy ethereal compassion and hopefull. I do believe there is a good side to Saturn. it is a struggle but there is alot of other stressful configurations to help this opposition out and seemingly good ones to help counter it. I hope Saturn just doesnt have the final say. I have chiron in the tenth and Saturn within 9 degrees of the IC so I hope chiron can prosper and overcome being "high in the sky"

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posted November 14, 2008 06:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ranti     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Born July of 65 Chiron conjunct Saturn 5 degree orb in Pisces 9th opposing Uranus conjunct Pluto Virgo 3rd, much like Lana's.

To me it's true about extremely low opinion of father, drinking and stuff, took me all the way to my mid twenties to see something worth respecting in him, when we took his ashes back to his hometown I was so shocked to hear things like 'he has never been second in any class he attended', always thought of it as my mom's thing lol.

Cancer Sun & Asc / Libra Moon

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posted November 13, 2010 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for curbro     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My DOB is 03/12/86. I'm a Pisces Sun, with a Cancer Asc, Ares Moon, and Mars in Sag. I also have a Saturn-Chiron opposition occurring in my twelfth house with Chiron in Gemini. I feel it's important to note that I was adopted at age 5.

Barbara: ...the native may be a rigid fighter for humanitarian causes.
- Due to the influence of a strong juxtaposition of water and fire in my chart, I find my humanitarian concerns are mostly emotional. I'm aware of emotional and physical bondage, view it as absolutely deplorable, and do my best to rectify it. I also find that I am ABSOLUTELY OBSESSED with the human condition (I love shows like Star Trek, Sliders, Gattica, etc).

Barbara: Almost all of them grew up with severe and cold fathers which few of them could recover from...
- My father is Aquarius Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus with a Leo ascendant. Definitely not the emotional type, he was rather cold and distant. It wasn't until I developed an interest in Astrology that I truly began to understand him. Now, I'm happy to say that he has been one of the most influential people in my life. We talk on a weekly basis and have a deep respect for one another.

Barbara: ...almost all have experienced sever difficulties with alcoholism.
- 100% true. I was a two fifths a day vodka drunk from age eighteen to age 21. Luckily, my father (having been in a similar shape in his childhood) offered me a always objective point of view. This, coupled with a deep faith in God has allowed me to persevere.

Barbara: seems to signal major shifts in technology...
- I work with technology on a daily basis in a very dynamic position. Constantly on the forefront of new devices, I use my understanding to help people communicate in a more efficient manner. Can you tell my Chiron is in Gemini? I'd also like to add that, while browsing for more information on Chiron, I've noted that us folks with Chiron in Gemini or the twelfth house often have early injuries to the voice or hearing. We have communication issues such as shyness or stuttering and often over-compensate to express ourselves more precisely later in life. (

Barbara: ...This is an aspect that makes or breaks people... ...Parents themselves are potentially the ultimate Chiron figures if they are capable of holding the highest level of consciousness for the children. Perhaps children born during the Chiron opposition to Saturn in the late 1980s will bring in the high side of the opposition with parental support. What would it be? The ability to bring the soul into the physical body.
- Lucky enough to be adopted, my future without my adoptive parents seemed rather bleak. I found my birth-mother a couple of years ago and discovered that she was a Scorpio Ascendant, Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Venus. Because Pluto was so integral in her life and represents transformation, maybe this played a part in my belief that this aspect has indeed made me.

I hope this report helps someone else out there who, like me, wants a better grasp on the tools they have to work with.

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posted December 19, 2010 03:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jacque     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
<<Chiron trine Saturn:
This aspect bears watching, and astrologers can assist clients by pointing out to them that they possess a magical, alchemical aura so that they can better understand how people respond to their energy. If this magical grounding energy can be contained within the boundaries of the native, then it is a great gift. I have some remarkable child clients with this position, and they are handling it very well now that the archetype is working in the collective. The trine was in effect in 1916-17,1930-31, and 1978-79.>>

any advice from astrologers here on how to handle this energy? What does it look like to the people you interact with and what is it that should be handled? I am not clear about the above passage: child clients handling the energy well & understanding how people respond to this energy etc. Please let me know. Thank you.

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posted January 01, 2011 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joyrjw     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have this between Saturn and Chiron Rx...I'm not sure how it would manifest itself....creatively perhaps?

Saturn (Can 22°20’) Chiron (Ari 04°04’) wax. sep. tridecile
(108°00’) orb: 0°16’

Saturn Represents
Principles of Truth

Chiron Represents: Rainbow Bridge between Saturn & Uranus.

Chiron Rules

Divination Skills
Holistic Healing
Naturopathic Medicine
Problem Solving

PHASE 12 - The Waxing TriDecile

KEYNOTE: Maturing new qualities of being participate creatively in a larger scheme.

SCENARIO: Surviving the environment and the pull of inertia, the viable and substantial new qualities first revealed during the decile phase contribute what they uniquely can to a greater whole. In another sense, if all has gone well, the cyclic process should now be operating at a higher level than it was during the previous cycle. Yet a mature understanding of what it means to participate at such a level will not be realized until the waning hemicycle. For now, the direction of the cycle is set either futureward or pastward as the ramifications surfaced in the previous phase are dealt with.
If a pastward attitude is assumed, old habits and fixed patterns of behavior tighten their ingenious grip. Yet here it is possible to see them for what they are. Exposed, eventually the hold of the past might be broken. If a mostly futureward attitude guides the process, it becomes increasingly important to recognize the factors of personal desire, purpose, and responsibility in individual action lest the aspirant confuses personal motives with cosmic intent.

DYNAMIC: Since the waxing square, productive, outward and practical activity has been on the rise while the cycle is drawn toward the opposition. Here creative potential may be tapped, catalyzing outward activity unto new levels. But the power provided may be used to perpetuate a sterile status quo, as well as to engender creative tomorrows.

"The most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart”
`Helen Keller quotes

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posted January 02, 2011 04:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ash     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My dob is 23 dec 77 Aqu rising & I have all these aspects with Chiron:

Sun Trine Chiron
Mer Rx Trine Chiron
Ven Trine Chiron
Sat Trine Chiron
Jup Rx Sextile Chiron
Mars Square Chiron

Its overwhelming yet healing i guess...i do consider my presence somewhat either subtlely magnetically drawing people to me or intimidating to them...

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posted May 09, 2013 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Oracle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Chiron in Aries in the 10th House which is ruled by Pisces. Neptune and Jupiter are in my 6th House of Service, however, esoterically a healing and spiritual house indeed.

Having Chiron in Aries in the 10th House signifies as someone mentioned in this blog the search for the "I AM". I am always seeking the truth about myself and constantly developing a strong personality that will withstand anything. Developing and creating my own truths is what I'm here to do. People come to me for healing advice and how to develop their personalities or read their charts for them. I should start charging some of these people.

People either like me or they don't and find me intimidating and unusual. I'm usually deceived or betrayed by people very close to me. I spend much of my time alone. I have never been married.

My Chironic aspects are as follows:
Chiron square Sun
Chiron square Mercury [Rx]
Chiron trine Jupiter
Chiron opposition Uranus
Chiron trine Neptune
Chiron opposition Pluto

"I use therefore, I am."

Rising Gemini
Sun Capricorn
Moon Aquarius
Mercury Capricorn
Venus Scorpio
Mars Scorpio
Jupiter Scorpio
Saturn Taurus
Uranus Libra
Neptune Sagittarius
Pluto Virgo
Chiron Aries
Vertex Scorpio

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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted May 14, 2013 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moving to Asteroid Astrology.

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