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Author Topic:   Neptune the Terrible
Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 12, 2006 02:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone been through a Hard Neptune transit? Or multiple ones at that....

I mostly feel like the wind has been knocked out of me...I feel so much right now as Pluto is trining my Moon...but I am in never never land most of the time... My world is very new to me as many changes have occured in the last 6 months... I am now single and have no idea who I am anymore...I have no career...My ex and I owned a business and he got it in the settlement. I do not regret this as it was and is all about him.... I teach dance part time but there isn't much room there and I would not be able to survive with kids on that paycheck... I 've been self-employed in some way or another my whole adult life....I feel very lost right now with no more energy to find my way... I've had some offers to participate in various projects but some seem shady and most sound so blah blah blah... I need a "reason" more than anything... to become motivated...

Neptune is currently in my 1st house...squaring my Mars and MC and opposing my Jupiter....

Is there a positive side to these transits? Something to look forward to? They will be with me a looonnnggg time......
Saturn is in my 7th and will be making conjunctions to 4 planets bam bam bam bam.... Will Saturn be my reconnection to what is real... or just kick me in the teeth? How this will all mesh together is troubling to say the least....
Any thoughs or experiences would be appreciated....

my info:8/24/67 6:29pm Columbus OH

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Gooberzlostlovefound
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posted April 12, 2006 04:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
not much of an astro expert here, but I can totally sympathize.

The damage that harsh neptune transits can cause is underrated. Saturn and Pluto aren't the only 'bad guy' out there.

I had one a couple years ago. I felt utterly lost in a fog. Was a very confusing time in my life.

Hope things start looking up for you..


GLLF

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wilsontc
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posted April 12, 2006 05:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
star,

The good news is that, thanks to your knowledge of astrology, you realize what is going on and you don't need to panic. For those who don't know astrology this can be a VERY confusing time, for those who do they realize "this too, will pass". Neptune breaks down barriers and opens us up to everything. The result will be a much stronger sense of interconnection with everything around you but the process is challenging. Saturn may be able to add some structure when the Saturn conjunctions occur. In addition you have transiting (planets in the sky) Pluto (transformation, also power) squaring (energy needs to be combined with) Pluto, indicating this is a time of intense transformation. All I can suggest is: ride it out and learn from the experience.

Riding it out,

Tim

------------------
For information on basic astrological chart interpretation see: http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2006 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for your kind words... I've had
PLOM disease the last couple days (Poor little o'le me

However, my kids are on Spring Break now and we have some fun stuff planned....The weather has finally caught up with the calendar... always lifts my spirits to get outside and play!!!!

Tim, as always you are so kind

I had hoped the pluto sq. pluto was too wide now? What orb do you consider for this one?? I guess anytime pluto is hanging around something... it should be listed... I also see on HD's thread on retro dates that this will come back closer before its gone... Looks to me as though Neptune Saturn and Pluto will be hanging around interconnecting, restructuring and transforming me for a long time to come...

Do these heavies and the like often happen when one is on the backside of 30 approaching 40.... Are these the mid-life meltdown transits you hear so much about...? Or is that Saturn's second return? If there is such a thing?

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wilsontc
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posted April 14, 2006 02:51 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
star,

You're welcome and sorry to hear about your disease. It must be VERY catching, I hear a lot of people every day that seem to have the exact same symptoms!

I use wider orbs (how close a planet or point needs to be to each other to still be in aspect) than most astrologers. For a Pluto square I use an orb of 8 degrees. Since Pluto is a SLOW moving planet, this can take a LONG time to finish. But by the time Pluto gets to 6 degrees away or more, it is MUCH less powerful. However, I think there are still some very slight effects possible until the square is completely over.

Maybe think of it like the sound of an approaching train: when a train is far away, we barely hear it, but it gets louder and louder until it is right in front of us and at its loudest, and then it moves away from us and gets quieter and quieter until the sound is completely gone.

I think your idea about the "backside of 30 approaching 40" make sense. People are finishing up with their Saturn return (when Saturn comes back to the place it was at birth) at this time and getting ready for their Uranus opposition (when Uranus opposes the place it was at birth). So it is a time with a lot going on! The second Saturn return happens much later, when we are 60 or so and ready to retire...or to do something else, at least!

Kindly,

Tim

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 14, 2006 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim... Your railroad explanation made alot of sense.... I guess one would hope to be smart enough to clear the tracks lest they get ran over...

Here's to hoping that any lights I might see at the end of the foggy tunnels I now face are in fact not a train!!

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

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From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 14, 2006 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim (and Star )

Isn't 40-ish also the time of the first Neptune square -- being Neptune's orbit is +/-165 years?

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
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posted April 15, 2006 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Zala

My Neptune is at 21' Scorpio... I will be 40 in August 2007...

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 15, 2006 12:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
re Neptune transit ..

seems it has a slightly more idiosyncratic movement compared to its neighbour Uranus ..
.. was trying to check it out yesterday on reading this post ..

anyhow the *** news is that Nep. as it goes direct/retro/direct .. hangs around a natal placement for just about 2 years .. so StarG .. you'll get the Nep vibes floating about .. on and off .. 'till dec '07 .. (the last nearest final 'exact' transiting aspect to natal neptune) ..

I checked 3 charts .. my own included ..
.. that Uranus by opposition, and Neptune by square coincide aprox late 30's/early 40's .. is generational .. or in other words that relationship between Uranus and Neptune changes over eons.

my experience was roughly ..
.. a relationship breakup ..
.. followed by an intense interest in astrology, music compostion and visual arts ..
.. ( as related to computers and related computer software ) ..
.. an out of world sea journey to some beautiful islands in the north atlantic ..
.. and a fanciful desire to attain nautical residency ..

.. i think 'keeping things real' was a bit challenging at the time ..
.. neglecting obligations and practical responsibilities .. through daydreaming ..
.. or being obssessed with neptunian like activities .. e.g. music production .. to the expense of all else ..

StarG .. just a thought .. an interest in astrology at this neptunian time,
.. could maybe help you out in the future .. (financialy) ..

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WaterNymph
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posted April 16, 2006 12:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know exactly what you mean. Right now Neptune’s almost exactly conj my Mercury…my head has been in a fog the past few months. Motivation is dead. It’s like someone threw me into space and now I’m just floating around. Not very nice…though not very damaging. That is until I “wake” from this dream and realise what I have/haven’t done

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 17, 2006 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HD.... Thank You

It is good to know I am not alone

I have experienced breakups, shakeups, obsessions more so, that is...Pluto in the 8th.... neglect of the practicality of the day... World is very watery...which is why this Earth girl feels stuck in the mud...

I too had an Island adventure and went Scuba diving (1st time). Way out of my comfort zone... but empowering too!

Neptune does not assist me with my very Virgo forest/trees issues.. I will, however be on the look out for help with finances... Any more thoughts on this would be appreciated... my interest is piqued!!


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Happy Dragon
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posted April 18, 2006 11:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*stargazer*
hi .. just a question re your chart ..
I get the following ..

Asc 05.48 Aqua
MC 27.04 Scorp
Moon 25.25 Aries
Pluto in 7th .. Placidius

If so .. these transits would apply at the moment ..

transiting Sat opposite Ascendant
transiting Chiron just passed a conjunction with Ascendant

t.Neptune would be transiting your first house
t.Pluto .. the eleventh ..
t.Uranus .. the first
t.Jupiter .. the ninth
t.Mars in fifth ..
t.Lillith in seventh ..
t.Sat thru the sixth .. just about to go into seventh ..

just wondered if that coincides with charts you have done for yourself ..

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 19, 2006 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy D!

No..

This is my natal chart:

born on 24 Aug 1967 local time 06:29 pm
in Columbus, OH (US) U.T. 22:29
83w00, 39n58 sid. time 15:07:02

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Virgo 01°03'19 07 direct
Moon Aries 25°09'02 03 direct
Mercury Virgo 01°20'04 07 direct
Venus Virgo 08°50'37 07 retrograde
Mars Scorpio 19°46'17 10 direct
Jupiter Leo 19°03'53 07 direct
Saturn Aries 11°40'48 02 retrograde
Uranus Virgo 23°18'15 08 direct
Neptune Scorpio 21°42'10 10 direct
Pluto Virgo 19°43'40 08 direct
True Node Aries 29°28'00 03 retrograde


House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Capricorn 26°02'57
2nd House Pisces 11°08'19
3rd House Aries 20°36'03
Imum Coeli Taurus 19°12'47
5th House Gemini 11°37'32
6th House Cancer 02°21'10
Descendant Cancer 26°02'57
8th House Virgo 11°08'19
9th House Libra 20°36'03
Medium Coeli Scorpio 19°12'47
11th House Sagittarius 11°37'32
12th House Capricorn 02°21'10

Uranus has entered my 2nd house..."ouch"
Saturn is in my 7th "early"... can't wait till' all those conjunctions!
But the good news is that it is out of my 6th... Had 5 operations from 10/2000- 8/2004.... can you say "tune-up"...

Some programs do give me an Aqua ASC... often wish it was so... as it would give me some air...although, I often am mistaken for a Libra... I always chalked it up to the loaded 7th house....

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 19, 2006 09:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
* Stargazer *
hi ..
yeah i was wondering about those two transits i mentioned .. i guess if a heavier planet were to conjuct one of the angles (asc /dsc / mc / ic) one would know about it .. .. regarding asc degrees and software .. .. my software works it all out somewhat different .. i.e. the time difference to UT is based on longitude figures .. i normaly have to check on a website as to whether daylight saving was in effect .. or not .. and that only goes back to 1970 ..
.. anyhow I'm going to do some double checking .. as i've got an explanation graphic under construction ( re: asc. calc. differences ) .. .. I've a tendency to trust this software based on what i've observed so far ..
.. maybe it's ok to have two ascendant signs ..
'till later ..
.. hd ..

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 20, 2006 08:44 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
* Stargazer *
hi ..
i just did your chart at astrowhatsit .. and yeah .. yours works out to Asc. at 26 Cappy ..
i don't know why the discrepency between the software calculations as the time difference to UT seems to be worked out similar ..
e.g. there is a 4 degree diff in asc degrees for same time between chicago illinois and cedar rapids iowa .. both are on the same map latitude line ..
i'm only using chicago as an example as i just did a chart for that birth place .. and for that chart the difference in Asc position .. was 2 degrees ..

i did 2 charts (on my software) relating to your tune up dates .. or the period shown .. thought that may give some indication re houses and whatnot ...

btw .. there is another way to look at a chart .. and that is to use the sun position as the ascendant .. i think (not sure though) the resultant houses show 'external' influences via transits .. i saw an article on it once .. can't remember details ... think i tried it on my own chart for a while .. but didn't keep notes on what occured ..

so .. i remain confused ..
* *
and .. return to the drawing board to figure this out ..
.. maybe it's time for me to email the software programmer 'n ask a few question ..

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 20, 2006 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HD...Daylight Savings Time was in effect in 1967... If I was born at say 6:45 p.m., then it would give me an Aqua ASC...
I questioned my Mother to no end on her certainty of the time.. The time is not on the BC like they are now.....

What has always perplexed me is the Placidus vs. Equal houses... Equal puts Vertex 29' Leo 8th...and Sun, Merc. Venus,Uranus, PLuto, P. Fort., Ceres and Juno all in Virgo 8th... Which for me, is hard to wrap my arms around....

I found differences in house positions on Composite reports which get the same natal info but on the composite the house positions are diffferent between the two sites...???? I think it is the DST issue.. I am farther East than Chicago... The time zone runs through Indiana I believe? I've often wondered if that line has in anyway changed over the years??? I know that in some places near by, they don't fall back or spring forward. Those spots are however, in the Central time zone and I am Eastern..?

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 20, 2006 01:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*StarG*
re: above ...
I've got daylight saving checked in my sftwr. ( thats the 5 deg aqua asc version )
difference to Gmt/Ut .. calcs to 5hrs 32min ..
Unchecking the daylight savings gives you an asc. at 26 Aqua ..
anyhow .. read what u wrote .. am going to check a few things out ..
'till later .. ( food is calling .. or visa versa .. never quite sure which .. )
* *

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wilsontc
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posted April 20, 2006 01:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
star,

In general, create your chart on Astrodienst ( http://www.astro.com ) and then use that chart to compare to all the OTHER charting sites out there. If the other site's chart differs from the Astrodienst chart...blame the other site. The webmaster at Astrodienst is VERY detailed in his knowledge of all the time/location issues of charting and ensures that all this knowledge is used to create the best free charts out there!

Astrodientially,

Tim

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
Registered: May 2009

posted April 25, 2006 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim .... astro.com

Happy D... no worries...of course, just wondering if you had come up with anything?
Anytime is fine

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Happy Dragon
unregistered
posted April 26, 2006 07:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*just wondering if you had come up with anything?*

re the ascendant ? ..
mmmm .. no .. had a thought it could be a computer glitch .. be 36 columbus's in the usa on the astro.com list .. a few with near co-ordinates .. ..
your bound to figure it by 'feel' if your so inclined ... pick a fast transiting planet that you know effects you .. don't look at when a transit is about to occur .. rather wait untill you feel a telltale sign (e.g. i can always feel a mars transit without doubt) that makes you figure you have a particular transit on .. ... then note the position of the transiting planet .. .. if your asc is right .. then your bound to feel something when the transiting planet makes an aspect to it .. .. if not then there will be another point where the transit is felt .. but is not apparent on the chart graphic .. .. and if the asc is not right .. then you probably won't feel anything when it gets aspected by a transit .. .. the Asc axis and Mc axis are sensitive points .. .. it means taking notes .. remembering self observations .. 'n such ..

re neptune ..
.. still meandering about it .. in between uranian flashes and geminian skippery .. .. though i reckon i'll be putting my lalaland typing time into a couple more posts regarding Saturn and the various personal planets from Lz.G. .. .. actualy if you can get a hold of her book on neptune .. i'm sure that would be an interesting read ( i don't have it myself) ...
. . .

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 26, 2006 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Star

The following is natal Neptune in the first house – perhaps you can glean some insight into your transit anyhoo….. if you’d like your natal 10th, let me know…..

From: “The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption” by Liz Greene

quote:
Neptune in the 1st House

The point of the Ascendant is the point of birth, and the 1st house, the natural house of Mars, represents the entry of the individual into the world. It is not only the physical experience of birth, but every birth which occurs throughout life—every situation in which, through an act of independent will, we attempt to impose our own personal reality on the world outside. The 1st house therefore deals with the individual's sense of potency and effectiveness in outer life. The manner in which we express this potency is identical with the image we have of the outer world; our methods match our projections, because what we see in the environment is actually our own interpretation of it. Over the course of time, our perception of the world thus shapes the world, vindicating our preconceptions.

We attribute to life the qualities of the sign on the Ascendant or any planets nearby. It is the lens through which we perceive existence, the focus we bring into life, the way we "bracket" the world. And since we see the world in this way, we invariably act and behave in accordance with our vision. What's more, life obliges our expectations and reflects our own point of view back to us.

Neptune in the 1st house, especially within 10 degrees of the Ascendant, poses an immediate dilemma, for the nature of Neptune is antithetical to the nature of Mars. Where Mars seeks to assert its power over life, Neptune seeks to avoid birth. Where we experience Neptune, we feel helpless and impotent, for we are in the hands of powers greater than ourselves. The experience of physical birth may be felt by the person with a 1st house Neptune as a process in which he or she has no volition and no choice. It is the mother's will, or perhaps that of the doctor or midwife, but not one's own; and the archetypal Martial component of struggle, inherent in the birth process, is often curiously absent. I have seen this placement in the charts of many people whose mothers were drugged into unconsciousness during the birth process, and both mother and infant share in the torpor and lassitude which results. The whole experience takes place, as it were, under the water. Later in life, the individual tends to deal with external reality with the same lassitude and passivity. Neptune in the 1st may secretly feel emasculated and deeply anxious when confronted with choices and challenges that require a definite decision or act of will—particularly if there is any risk of separation or loneliness. Sometimes one adopts instead a strange fatalism, as though life is unreal anyway and therefore not worth struggling with. Eschewing of personal responsibility may undermine efforts to establish a coherent life direction. Both good and ill are "meant to be."

Instead of real potency, Neptune in the 1st may generate false potency as a defence against victimisation. The individual may use his or her gifts of empathy and imagination to become what the world expects, acquiring power through enchanting, pleasing, and mirroring the emotional needs of others. This behaviour may mask a personality of considerable strength; a 1st house Neptune may be accompanied by the Sun conjunct Pluto in Scorpio, for example, or the Sun square Saturn in Capricorn. But the strength may not be visible, nor even recognised by the individual. Neptune in the 1st often reflects gifts of tact and subtle diplomacy; one navigates rather than shapes the outer world. The needs of others take on the shape of the redeemer; to merge with others in an ecstasy of mutual pleasing is a form of redemption. Everybody likes a rising Neptune, for it aims to please, and often embodies the magical fascination of Lutey's mermaid. Problems arise when other factors in the chart, less fluid and undefined, begin to fidget and grow angry behind Neptune's effortless charm.

Neptune in the 1st has a reputation in astrological texts for blindness and self-deception. Ebertin mentions "hypersensitiveness, confusion, a person without aims or objectives." This is understandable because Neptune projects a mythic experience of redemption onto the environment and the people in it. Every personal interaction with another individual thus becomes a potential experience of salvation; and clarity, judgement and initiative dissolve as a result. But this destructive extreme of self-effacement can only occur if there is no sense of self to balance Neptune's longing. If one has one's own feelings and values, the need for others will not swallow up the outlines of the identity. Neptune in the 1st is often the special gift of the actor; Marilyn Monroe and Richard Burton are two of our most famous, and saddest, examples. The tragedy of these two talented and charismatic people's lives lay in their lethal tendency to identify almost totally with the archetypal image projected upon them by an adoring public. Any sense of worth was found only in the illusory Eden of drugs and alcohol and, in Monroe's case, apparent suicide through an overdose. The challenge of a 1st house Neptune lies not in any intrinsically malevolent property in the planet, but in the task of balancing its chameleon-like inclinations with a healthy dose of self-value and self-preservation.

Neptune in the 1st can also be the special gift of the counsellor or healer, because of its unique capacity to enter into the feelings of others. But the individual may become addicted to those who are needy. This is a chronic problem with many people in the helping professions; their secret dependency upon others' dependency upon them causes them to overwork, undercharge, ignore their personal needs, and ultimately build up an enormous unconscious reservoir of anger and resentment toward demands which they cannot refuse. They often become sick themselves, and are in desperate, albeit unadmitted, need of help for their own problem because their problem is the same as their patients'. Somewhere along the way, the ordinary everyday self has been lost in the name of saving the suffering. Behind this characteristic pattern, we can see the secret identity of redeemer and redeemed, with its accompanying loss of contact with the reality of personal limits. It is no different in kind to the dilemma of the film star, who may no longer remember what it was like to live without fresh injections of Eden-stuff to feed the increasing tyranny of the habit.

Neptune in the 1st house, ungrounded by a solid ego, can suggest a deeply manipulative personality. This manipulativeness is not directed toward a calculated goal, however, unless colder, more self-serving chart factors enlist its power; it is utilised to secure the experience of fusion. Redemption, for a 1st house Neptune, lies in the feeling of power over the environment; but this power lies in powerlessness, which enlists others' sympathy and support. Thus the individual may develop a pattern of victimisation which makes him or her the passive partner in a series of difficult relationships. The more one is needed, the more secure one feels. If the individual can also express some directness and honesty, then Neptune's sensitivity and magic are an enormous asset to the personality. If there is a good enough sense of personal boundaries, then Neptune will not unconsciously invade the boundaries of others. The manner in which Neptune expresses itself through the 1st house depends greatly upon how the rest of the chart is handled—particularly Mars, the natural ruler of the house, and Saturn, the natural complement to Neptune. One of the difficulties with Neptune placed in the 1st is that, gifted actor that it is, the capacity to charm and please begins in childhood. One learns one's cues from the moment of birth. In adulthood, if there is no one around to provide the mirror of Narcissus, then the individual may feel increasingly isolated and unreal.

Neptune in the 1st is sometimes associated with drug and drink problems. It is also connected with certain illnesses which involve a degree of helplessness and dependence upon others, and in its most virulent form it is usually linked with those lingering, wasting conditions that require the bed or the wheelchair for prolonged periods. I have met Neptune in the 1st house in cases of multiple sclerosis, "post-viral fatigue," extreme allergic reactions, psoriasis, and asthma, as well as the usual addiction difficulties. Although multiple sclerosis is usually, in terms of current medical theory, considered organic, it is useful to remember Charcot. Retreat into the secret pleasures of illness and addiction seems, in part, to spring from feelings of impotence and unreality, which afflict the individual when he or she experiences the loneliness and harshness of life. Illness may thus provide a symbolic return to the comforting waters of the womb, where all needs are unconditionally met. Because self-assertion always involves the risk of alienation and aloneness, the expression of Mars may be strenuously avoided. But it may be exhibited unconsciously in the fierce demands which debilitating illness and addiction make on friends and family, and, on the positive side, in the often extraordinary bravery shown in the face of a paralysing disease. But Neptunian ailments may exhibit a highly manipulative component in the timing of the outbreaks. Others must adjust to the ill person emotionally as well as physically, and the sufferer usually requires a high degree of caretaking, not unlike a small child. This is of course neither conscious nor calculated. But there is sometimes an element of hidden intent or "secondary gain" in these "mystery" ailments whose physical causes still elude medical understanding. Perhaps, too, we do not look often enough at the rage behind such ailments. This rage may be not only the result of incapacitation, but also one of the factors in its cause.

The openness and responsiveness of a rising Neptune is a rich and magical gift. Whether this gift expresses itself through a creative medium such as acting or singing, or through an equally creative medium such as healing, or through a less obvious but equally valuable gift of gentleness and empathy in human relationships, the individual with Neptune in the 1st house is not inherently "afflicted" by something which permanently ruins his or her capacity to cope with life. But the primordial energy of any outer planet ultimately needs to be contained and expressed by a robust individual ego, if it is not to become destructive to life—and not merely one's own life. The inner solidity of the personality decides in the end whether the gifts of a 1st house Neptune will lead to the waters of oblivion or the waters of life.



Zala

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mysticaldream
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posted April 26, 2006 10:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting, Zala.

I have Neptune exactly conjunct my Ascendant; unfortunately none of that sounds too flattering!

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 26, 2006 10:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Zala .. nice one ..
love that pic of neptune .. looks somewhat powerful a la piscean ..
i'm going to have to nik it .. u'know .. it's them gem. elves again ..

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Stargazer
Knowflake

Posts: 46
From: just left of center
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posted April 27, 2006 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stargazer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy D....Thank you ...for you!

I do believe the Cappy rising stuff fits me.. It is stuck in there with the over abundance of Earth in my chart..so with Neptune about, it can get muddy...
I've definitely got the Cappy hands, feet, skin and of course I can justify eating a bag of chips and a box of chocolate by washing it down with a diet coke... so there you go....
I keep a journal and have often found when reading about the past that my sense of self is lost.. It is a constant challenge.. I have lots of empty houses (1) included and its difficult at times to feel the energy unless , of course, you experience a triple header Neptune raid... All three are just about to hit 1'... so, I am feeling them.... My Mother tells me I am a "mess in a dress"....

Zala' You are such a sweetheart !

I will bookmark this so I can read it a few more times to "get it".. Neptune stuff has me baffled mostly... I "get" the rest a lot quicker... like Saturn, for instance, it is like being slapped... which is hard to miss

Thanks again for posting this and yes, if you have time, I would love to read the 10th house ...

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 27, 2006 06:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hiya StarG ~

Neptune stuff has me baffled mostly... I "get" the rest a lot quicker... like Saturn, for instance, it is like being slapped... which is hard to miss

I like your Saturnian analogy -- the shock of being slapped is truly appropos!! .....
And I feel the same as you about Neptune. All this reading I've done, and I'm still not much closer to understanding how Neptune works in my chart, or anybody else's. tNeptune's in my 6th now and I've been enduring health issues and work dilemmas.....


A short Neptune blurb here -- I never knew he was also the god of earthquakes and horses:
http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/gallery/poseidon_c.html

Anyway! I've been having fun digressing, yet here's your Neptune in X, From Liz G same book (well worth acquiring!):

quote:
Neptune in the 10th House

The 10th house is complex, for it is not solely concerned with career, achievement and status in the world "out there." This last of the angular houses also reflects a very special dimension of mother, or the mother-archetype. It is mother as form-giver and mother as physical world. When an infant emerges into life, the mother's physical reality forms the parameters of the universe; physical mother and material world are the same thing. The boundaries of mother's body, and the confines of mother's laws, ultimately form what we perceive as the boundaries and confines of the mundane world we inhabit; and what we project into the world, we then engage with, attempting to give shape to it in the form of a "career." Every infant meets a particular archetypal component in the personal mother, apparently embodied by her. This component later colours the individual's perception of what is expected by the larger world, and how one must present oneself to get on in life. It is a kind of inheritance, but it is not an objective portrait of the mother. Rather, it is a portrait of something we experience first in the maternal relationship, and later in our efforts to establish ourselves as independent adults in a world full of limits and laws. The issues reflected by our 10th house planets shape our assumptions about our place in society, the contribution we can make, the social issues we champion or do battle with, and the persona we adopt. It is not the personal mother's behaviour, but rather, the mythic image she embodies for her child, which dominates our perceptions. The material goals we espouse are thus profoundly linked with our early experiences of maternal limits and boundaries.

Neptune in the 10th may perceive the world as a prison camp for those who need redeeming. The mother in such cases usually appears to her child as a victim, unconditionally loving yet the undeserving bearer of life's unfairness and pain. This is the mater dolorosa whose tears cleanse the sins of humanity, and whose suffering demands devotion and lifelong recompense. If this image is later transferred onto the world, the world seems full of misery; hence Neptune in the 10th often gravitates toward the helping professions, as a means of giving shape to the archetypal pattern. But Neptune in the 10th may also perceive the mother as an hysteric—the gaping maw of the big fish, who, as Alexander the Great once put it, demands an exorbitant rent for nine months' lodging. The mother may appear to exhibit the characteristic psychological difficulties of Neptune, not yet emerged herself from the uterine waters. She may be ill-defined as an individual, trying to live for and through her child. Neptunian idealisation and longing for fusion may exist in both mother and child; both may share a dream of perfect union, where no loneliness or conflict can destroy the timeless bliss of Eden. Fulfilling mother's needs, and later, the world's needs, constitutes salvation. Boundaries are blurred, and the child may feel called upon to be not only redeemer, but also fish-food, to be borne, nurtured and then swallowed up.

Neptune's sensitivity to unspoken maternal cues may be expressed to the collective through that other favourite Neptunian calling, the world of stage and screen. In the participation mystique between performer and audience, Neptune in the 10th can recreate the state of primal fusion, drawing nourishment from a positive response, and experiencing deep feelings of loss, anxiety, and despair if the audience rejects the offering. The collective thus becomes the embodiment of the source, life-giving in its love and approval, life-threatening in its wrath. Neptune in the 10th reflects a deeply ambivalent relationship with the collective, as it does with the personal mother. In becoming what "they" want and need (which is the same as what mother wants and needs), Neptune in the 10th secures the illusion of unconditional love. Yet the "beast with many heads," as every Roman emperor knew, is as liable to turn on its redeemers as it is to worship them. Shakespeare addressed many of his plays to this theme, in particular Coriolanus. Neptune in the 10th, through its actor's gifts, may appear glamourous and mysterious to the public. But equally, it may incur victimisation, through an unconscious identification which unleashes the myth of the victim-redeemer in mundane life. A good example of this dimension of Neptune in the 10th may be found in the chart of the Princess of Wales, explored in chapter 8.

Ebertin mentions "strange objectives," as well as "the attainment of one's objectives by crooked means." Because of Neptune's feelings of passivity and helplessness, one may feel that one's progress in life is not within one's own hands. An attitude of fatalism may accompany any effort to plan a future, and the individual may drift from one job to another, motivated not from within but by whatever help appears through the agency of others. Thus one becomes a small child, content to fulfill the mother's ambitions and expectations, eager to please, but experiencing no internal impetus to make an independent choice. For some with Neptune in the 10th, vocation is a necessity rather than a choice, dictated by unconscious compulsions which—whether interpreted as infantile, spiritual, or a combination of the two—will tolerate no other option. Others with Neptune in the 10th experience the world as too vast, confusing and overwhelming, and there is not enough "I" to claim a place based on conscious volition. Neptune in the 10th may thus transform into society's victim, one of life's "losers"—not through lack of ability, but through an obscure masochism which prefers martyrdom to a defined identity. In such cases one may consciously feel victimised by oppressive social forces (conservative government, patriarchal attitudes, capitalism, or other good hooks for Saturnian projections), and wait for the millennium when the wicked are overthrown and the meek inherit the Earth.

If one identifies with the victim-redeemer as outlaw (as most messiahs are in the context of their social milieu), then one may feel that deceit is necessary to achieve anything at all. There may be an urgent need not only to act subversively, but also to be found out; the individual may unconsciously architect the means of his or her own downfall through leaving clues of dishonest activity, or through becoming involved with a dishonest colleague or business partner. There may also be an assumption of certain exemptions—one is "above" the laws of the society in which one lives. Neptune in the 10th is sometimes associated with scandal. A rather florid example of this kind of Neptunian self-sabotage is Chuck Berry, the American pop composer and performer. Berry achieved immense popularity during the 1960s and 1970s through his distinctive blend of hard rock and country and western music, with such hits as "Mabelline" and "Johnny Be Good." He achieved even greater success with two films, Go, Johnny, Go and Let the Good Times Roll, and won the Grammy award in 1984. In his birth chart Neptune is placed in Leo in the 10th house, sextile the Sun in the 12th and forming a T-cross by squaring Saturn in the 1st and Mars in the 7th. At the age of 18 he was jailed for three years for car theft, and in 1962, when he was 36, he was sentenced to another three years for taking a 14-year-old prostitute across state lines. He served yet another four months in gaol for failing to pay $108,000 in income tax, and in 1988 was charged with beating up one of his back-up singers. Whatever was eating at Chuck Berry, fame and fortune did not cure it. The nature of his career admirably suits his 10th house Neptune, for he was one of an exclusive pantheon of successful pop singers who fulfilled the dreams of an entire generation. Yet he ensured his own persecution at the hands of the law. It is possible that the natal Neptune-Mars-Saturn configuration expressed itself in this compulsive pattern, with the role of Saturn played by the police and the role of Mars played by his own uncontrollable violence.

Neptune in the 10th may be nobly inspired to serve the collective, or it may be diabolically inspired to cheat the collective. Or it may do a little of both. Neptune in the 10th never loses the gift of the hypocrites. One may not be particularly Neptunian in other respects, but the world will project Neptune onto the individual because the individual projects Neptune onto the world. There is usually an element of participation mystique in the individual's professional and public life, and an element of drama in the role he or she plays in the eyes of the world. This may not always be a big world—not everyone with Neptune in the 10th is "famous"—but one tends to get noticed, because of a magical quality of mirroring which activates the fantasies of those who do not know the person well. On closer contact, this mystery may vanish. It is those with Neptune in the 1st or the 7th who remain elusive even in close relationships. But whether Neptune in the 10th attracts calumny or idolisation, it has enormous power to attract, because of its enormous intuitive insight into the inner workings of the collective. In the hands of a relatively conscious individual, self-aware enough not to identify with the mythic enactment played out on the public stage, this power to attract may be put in the service of great good to society, or, at the very least, great pleasure offered through the expression of creative talents. But the necessary ingredient of self-awareness can emerge only from an honest confrontation with the redemptive themes surrounding the relationship with the mother. Without this insight, Neptune in the 10th may become the victim of internal and external collective forces over which the individual truly has no control.


Whaddya think??

Take care ~
Z

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