posted May 27, 2006 03:04 AM              

Anyone who read the Mr. Aqua saga that I posted on here before I left him (Jeez, seems like a lifetime ago now) will know that Mr. Aqua was not especially motivated (an understatement). I sincerely hoped that my leaving him would shock him into actually biting the bullet, making him sit up and take stock of himself, finding himself and getting a life.

Yesterday I received a letter sent to Mrs - (my surname, no initial); my mail is being redirected so I opened it and found a letter from an estate agents' - but not the ones my husband and I are dealing with. Aparently an offer had been made for a property near to where my husband and I used to live, for a reasonably hefty sum, and I thought, "What the - ? What's going on? I never agreed to any of this!!" THEN I noticed at the bottom of the page that it was subject to sale of my MOTHER-IN-LAW's property and that the letter was addressed to Mrs -, c/o my original address. Ah hah! I thought, it all makes sense now...the letter was sent to the wrong Mrs -. Basically, MIL has moved in with STBX and has put her place on the market so they can get a place together. Needless to say, I shall post the letter on to them and left a message on (their) answerphone saying I would do so, so they know I know about the situation.

I am a bit disappointed with Mr. Aqua because I really thought this was a golden chance for him to go anywhere in the world, do what he liked, enjoy just being himself for a while, find his own niche, a career direction. Everybody else reckoned he would end up with his mother but he originally told me he didn't want to live with her. Having said that, the moment I left him she was visiting him every 5 seconds (she's a Cancer, needless to say). I can't believe the old cow has leeched on to him again. Effectively before I came along they were enjoying a quasi-married relationship and I think I upset the applecart marrying him. Now they're back together again, as it were, and his career is never going to go anywhere, and he's never going to be able to form a relationship with anyone again. Maybe I oughtn't to be surprised but I am disappointed that he is so weak and that his mother has effectively ruined his life by cossetting him and continually making a soft landing for him every time he gets into trouble; it's pathetic.

If I had been his mother, I would have thought any trials and tribulations he was going through were sad, but ultimately let him get on with it, because it's not HEALTHY otherwise. My parents were a lot tougher but in the long run it has been better for me as a person. I am thoroughly enjoying London and all it has to offer, does my head in sometimes but once you have worked in London you can work anywhere, had some fantastic experiences over the last few months, which I wouldn't have had if I hadn't moved. Mr. Aqua always wants to take the soft option; he was not prepared to downsize at all (renting, for example) - which I couldn't understand, to me renting is less of a shame than living with one's mother at the age of 38!!

Can anyone shed any astrological light on my husband and his mother's relationship, or unusually strong mother/son bonds in general? Birthdata are below:

STBX: 2.00 am, 14th February 1968, Bristol, England
MIL: 5.00 or 6.00 am, 2nd July 1941, Reading (London?) England

posted May 27, 2006 05:05 AM              

My ex hubbie ended up with his mammy.....she is a pisces not a cancer tho !!!!

And I see SO many women with their sons and think "oh dear"........some women just dont know how to let go do they?

Of course you are disappointed with him, but doesnt it just reaffirm to you how lucky you are to escape him and his "mother dear".

Here in Ireland, the mammies are, at times, the ruin of their sons....who go on to treat their wives like mothers.....very unhealthy and tough for the women who marry em.

Youre well out of it girl......

posted May 27, 2006 01:14 PM              

Your ex-husband has an unaspected (strong energy) Saturn (duty) focused in the 4th house (home). This could indicate that your ex has a strong duty toward his home. However, since the energy is unaspected, it does not "connect in" with him. As a result he OVERdoes his duty to his home and focuses on home issues more than is good for him. His challenge is to accept that he has a duty to his home without needing to PROVE it all the time.

Guessing,

posted May 27, 2006 03:13 PM              

I have always found our Saturns interesting because mine is in the 10th, and therefore linked to father, career etc., so the *polar opposite* placement of his...I always felt like I wore the trousers and everybody else reckoned I did too!!

HD, the Sun square Saturn placement both ways also looks interesting. Seems like Saturn has a lot to answer for.

Sue, you're a gift. These men, eh? I had so much hope for him. I said to him the last time I saw him, "You are free now. Free to go and do whatever you like...the world is your oyster" and I was counting on him to do that and show the world that he really wasn't (as a friend put it) a "big girl's blouse" after all...but I somehow feel he can't exist without a woman and his mother obviously realized that and got her claws in when he was vulnerable and before anyone else could steal her precious son from her again...Damn, I'd rather he'd found a relationship with another woman than ended up with her!!! Doesn't help that he feels so bad about himself, if he had any confidence whatsoever he'd tell her to get knotted!!

Awh...I feel sorry for him, and I did genuinely care about him, enough to try and get him to do what was good for him...but obviously my methods didn't work...as you said though, Sue, lucky I am well away from the pair of them!!!

posted May 28, 2006 04:50 AM            

you searched for this kind of man, and u married him because u needed HIM (the way he is, with this mum and this relationship to her).

further, one should only look at his chart alone bc it's not the 'relationship' what u're looking for, but how this rel affected him and his personality.you should look at his moon and nodes (placement, aspects, etc) to see about his rel with his mum.

it's not productive FOR YOU. you need to move on, and in order to do that u must face reality and stop looking for 'reasons'.

posted May 28, 2006 10:27 AM            

I’ve been really happy for you about the progress you’ve made since you first wrote telling us how you were allergic to your hubby

Both you and Sue wrote about “ruin” – Sue that ”the mammies are, at times, the ruin of their sons” and you ”both his parents ruined him because of their limited outlook”. I hoped to open a discussion about the concept of parents “ruining” their children…..

As examples I offer:
- my ex, who was physically and verbally abused as a child and it totally affected his whole adult life so that he could not evolve past it and exists on the margins of our society now
- a good friend, who was also physically and verbally abused as a child, but evolved from that into a compassionate and successful woman today

I don’t agree that children are malleable lumps of clay which can be totally “ruined” (other synonyms: devastated, messed up, spoiled, destroyed) – I think the ability lies within each of us to grow past and thru outrages suffered as children at the hands of others. When we enter this life I think we come in with personalities, karma and courage within, and I think that may be reflected in the natal chart, although I don’t know exactly where and would appreciate seeing more speculations such as HD’s and Tim's….. I think how one reacts *after* growing up and leaving close-proximity parental influence is partially dependent on one’s chart, but also dependent on one’s innate courage and strength. How do some people (like your Aqua, AT) never escape the authority and manipulation of their parents -- either physically by living with or near them, or emotionally by allowing the parental figure to still affect their actions -- and some do?? Is it a weakness and inability to face life without the parent?? Is it that the terrible (or not-so-terrible) known is better than the terrible unknown??

I feel sad for your STBX, AT – Opportunity knocked on his door in the form of your departure, and he went off in the other room to play computer games. I guess you could say he is “trapped”, but he’s buying his way into the prison, isn’t he?? I don’t think the potential you saw is gone -- just dormant, awaiting a trigger – hope it happens for him and he can get away from the unhealthy cohabitation with his mum. Just because she lives her life in a helpless manner, and as you said cossets him and softens his every landing, doesn't mean he can't reject that behavior and become his own man.....

posted May 28, 2006 10:35 AM              

But I think the problem lies with the extremely sensitive type of person...

My 80 year old dad said to me today that he will never ever forgive his mother for not loving him, and it has to an extent ruined his life,,,,he gets depressed all the time cos he isnt able to heal the wound. He takes the slightest reaction from another, as an extension of that rejection.

Of course, as you stated there are others who are able to heal themselves, despite everything and against all the odds.

I know from when I was working as a therapist in Ireland, the amount of men who fear women and therefore go on to have dysfunctional relationships with women are many.

So to some degree the very sensitive men can have their lives "ruined" by their mothers.

My father, God bless him, is a prime example.

posted May 28, 2006 10:48 AM            

Thanks for your insights about your dad You ascribe the facility of being “ruined” to extreme sensitivity, then?? Yet my galfriend whose mother doesn’t love her has Moon in Cancer and Scorpio rising, and my ex has Moon in Cappy and Leo Rising. She has come to terms with the fact that her mother is unable to give what we would call Love – she has not “forgiven” her mother, but she has moved on from letting that lack of love from childhood hurt her any more or color her relationships…..

posted May 28, 2006 12:07 PM              

I think I've mentioned this before, but this seems the appropriate place to mention it again. My idea is that, our chart represents our perspective on the world. This means that everything we see has to "fit" into our point of view. So, for example, if we have a chart that indicates challenges with our mothers then we WILL see these challenges towards our mothers...no matter what our mothers actually do! Our energies will not "allow" us to see our mothers any other way.

When we grow older we can choose to understand that our parents were (usually) simply doing what they thought was right and loving us as best they knew how. And, even though we may never be able to fully feel "fully loved" because of chart issues, we can come to understand us that this is NOT entirely the fault of our parents. Or, to put it in a much shorter sentence: "When I was a child, I thought as a child, when I became an adult, I put away childish things." Blaming our parents for our shortcomings in our life is one of those "childish things" we need to put away.

Adulturating,

posted May 28, 2006 12:14 PM            

Thanks for your insights! So the consensus is Saturn/Cancer/4th house challenges??

Hmmmmm, that "adulterating" signoff sounds rather odd, tho.....

posted June 01, 2006 02:18 PM            

- getting divorced,
- hardly communicated at all in the past 8 months
- mr. Aqua was not especially motivated
- I am a bit disappointed with Mr. Aqua
- I ... thought this was a ...chance for him .... do what HE like
-Mr. Aqua always wants to take the soft option;

so... he's NOT motivated, YOU think he should do this and that... how exactly are you any different than his mum?!? what makes you right when you think what's best for him?

being dissapointed means you expected things from him, demanded things.

he hasn't talked to you at all for 8 months! he doesn't want your 'help', your pushing him around. he's happy to lay low (that's who he is - the 'soft option'). let him be.

posted June 01, 2006 06:51 PM            

You made some judgments and criticisms without having as much information on the subject as the rest of us do -- we've been talking to ariestiger about it for a year now.....

Maybe you would like to take a look at this thread and then see if you feel the same and would give the same advice??

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005879.html

Granted, all we have is AT's pov and no input from the Alleged Aquarian Lump But having observed the situation while it was happening does give one some additional perspective.....

And, I wonder: is it really so wrong to have some slight expectations about the behavior of another?? Is it too presumptuous to expect someone not to abuse you physically or verbally?? Too out-of-left-field to expect someone not to smash their head against the garage door in a fit of pique because you said you were leaving?? Too weird to expect some attention and company from your hubs at home instead of him being glued to computer games for hours upon hours??

posted June 02, 2006 11:05 AM            

It’s not 'just' commenting since you obviously are deeply involved emotionally. And I think you'd be better off with some other man who would care about such things like you do.

You’re co-dependant. You 'need' him to be a 'victim' cos you 'need' to 'rescue' him. Hey: read "Games people play" - great book, forgot who wrote it. Main idea: as long as you play the game, you are as trapped as he is. Meanwhile though, at least he's enjoying his computer games while you.... while you do what? Try harder?

azalaksh - I don't need all the details to see an unhealthy attachment; all that stuff only gets in the way. Compassion is one thing, encouraging someone to run around in circles in a cage is quite another.

It’s great to get something out of your system (talk to someone). The very fact that this idle 'commenting' on someone else's 'problems' keeps going on for over a year should raise an eyebrow.

posted June 02, 2006 01:54 PM            

I for one am proud to know someone like ariestiger who has 1) dissolved an unhappy marriage, 2) moved her residence, and 3) gotten a new job -- all in less than a year. I'm curious if cristiname has ever accomplished that many major life changes in such a short period of time.....

Oh and btw cristiname, no one asked me to "play AT's cards" -- I'm just an interested and compassionate bystander.....

And I just don't get what on earth you think AT is "fighting"..... ??? Perhaps I'm way off base, but the way I read the intent of this thread is "anybody have any insight on how this mother/son relationship plays out astrologically?"

And perhaps it's just my personal taste, but I don't believe that one can read the first (or last) page of a book, shut the book and say, "OK now I understand the character and the motivations of all the actors in the story, and by golly I caught all those nuances and plot twists too and now I can write a really accurate review" .....

posted June 02, 2006 03:53 PM              

An extra-special thumbs-up to you!

posted June 06, 2006 03:00 PM            

Maybe YOU should read again about rackets and racketeering. You might understand why I think your ‘encouragement’ and ‘compassion’ are actually harming. But then,you didn’t really understand me last time… oh, well.

and I said that she fights against letting go of that man. she may have moved physically, but her 'heart &mind' are still there, wondering if there's something else she could try.

posted June 07, 2006 09:57 AM              

quote:

---

She fights against letting go of that man. she may have moved physically, but her 'heart &mind' are still there, wondering if there's something else she could try.

---

Are you talking about yourself by any chance?

You're pretty much putting words in AT's mouth. Bit too much of an assumption to make from a few posts don't you think?

posted June 07, 2006 10:08 AM            

Ariestiger..... thanks for sharing the journey.
I understand what Cristiname is talking about, maybe for another.. but really.. I don't think it applies here.
Generalizations and blind adherence to a stereotype are hardly accusations worth even discussing in a reasonable way. If you refute them, there will simply be a reply of.. oh, I have read all about it, I know... and judgements. It's hardly worth responding to, so silly to think you know all about someone's motivations based upon assumptions and formula knowledge... the world is shades of grey, with plenty of variations.

posted June 07, 2006 12:49 PM            

I wish I had your Merc in Libra diplomacy . Since I don't, I'm not going to dignify any black & white assertions here with my gray reply (**goes hunting to find her Official The World Is Gray Not Black and White Day thread.....**) and since I don't understand anyway, oh well.....
A black and white world can be very comforting, and indeed essential, to some.....