posted May 31, 2006 10:44 AM              

Considering the games, power struggles, all this bullsh*t...which seems to be the 'norm'....it's pratically a miracle that ANY romantic relationship ever works out.

This is just insanity! Why does it have to be like this??

posted May 31, 2006 12:49 PM              

You are practically my nemesis, though a nice one. While I waffle for 20 posts where one will do, you just say it.

posted May 31, 2006 01:04 PM              

I can imagine her listening to someone and thinking "now why did they go to their elbow to get to their $^$".

Pssst... lioneye, will you take a shot at my question on page 5?

posted May 31, 2006 01:14 PM              

You could actually use things like that as a litmus test of a guy, though that would be a game in itself.

posted May 31, 2006 01:47 PM            

I agree with Swerve on most of this stuff, though I'm not certain I'd be so conciliatory talking about this stuff.

Guys who are genuine get the most unreasonable deal possible. Swerve touched on this, and I want to continue this. Some of us guys get it. You want genuine men. You don't want fakeness or duplicity. This is fine with us, because we'd rather be ourselves anyway. We don't try to deceive. We don't pull any of the stunts we see other guys try. We linger and lurk and aren't often in relationships, and when the opportunity comes up where something meaningful might happen we seize the opportunity. Even then we (or at least I) adopt extremely respectful stances not wanting our women to do anything that they are uncomfortable with. We allow things to progress at the woman's pace, because we're hyper-sensitive about being seen as manipulative (because it's not us). Then despite our best, most genuine efforts we STILL get the theories from our women that it was US who just wanted to get laid or whatever. It's so ridiculous. We adopt these ethics to give you guys the option you've always claimed to want, and despite this you STILL accuse us of being typical, sex-obsessed, manipulative men.

posted May 31, 2006 01:55 PM              

I "could" use it as a test... but all of this (as I mentioned once before) "going through your elbow..." thing is really kind of silly.

NOTE: This may sound a little jaded... I'm not

It's almost an insult to my intelligence. Do they (not saying all men) really think I'm not bright enough to know what they're doing?

Not that I would act, but I could respect it more if a guy were just to say "look, we're both adults here... let's pass all of this I tease you / you tease me stuff and do what we're going to do".

Don't waste my time unless you really want to get to know me. If it's just sex ... say it (with a reasonable amount of couth, of course) and if it's just female attention for the sake of an ego boost.... *yawns... I'm sure there are other women that will cater.

To each their own.

posted May 31, 2006 02:03 PM              

I just now saw AG's post.

posted May 31, 2006 02:19 PM              

Like.......

I just want sex.

I like you a lot, let's see how it goes.

You make my head spin.

I've had lots of partners but I'm ready for something more...

Yes? We may not hear what we want to hear but we know exactly where we are and can decide whether to persue things or not!!! When I met my hubbie I told him I had lots of barriers, was very scared, had been promiscuous in the past but hell, I liked him and thought we could make a go of something. We've been together ten years. And I've been utterly faithful.

And Swerve m'dear....you're completely right, being sensitive is nothing to do with being vulnerable. Big mistake for anyone to presume that. Don't you also find that because you're emotional/deep/ sensitive that people think you're innocent? Happens to me a lot...and I'm like, oh if you only knew!

Lioneye68....now your honesty I love.

posted May 31, 2006 02:32 PM            

"Free Love - no strings - has led the opposite sexes to be fearful of trusting each other. Too many people are shallow bed-hoppers, so it's hard to let your guard down and "fall" for someone, lest they may reject or abandon you emotionally.
The shallow bed hoppers are the ones least at risk emotionally, but do the most damage to those who take relationship seriously."

Right on Lady!!!!

posted May 31, 2006 02:51 PM              

Swerve - Nemesis? That's bad, isn't it? At least you said I was nice, so I'll take the good with the bad

Ok, Paras - WHAT ELSE am I? I'm as curious as a monkey-cat could possibly be! PS: Stay off the heroine lol....

1scorp, I think you're trying to ask if a man really wants his woman to be a gullible simpleton - and I think the answer is, Yes - but only if he's manipulative and insecure about his intelligence! - And you have an awful lot of class yourself, little lady!

posted May 31, 2006 10:25 PM              

When men bond together in a pack, they lower their guard, and you will see a very smart man become very naive and gullible.

Ohad, if you look around I am sure you have witnessed this yourself.

Normally the pack leader will come up with wild stories:

- That he had sex with three women at once and got them all pregnant
- That he is secretly a millionaire
- That he is working with the government as a secret agent

And all the other men will nod their heads and be very impressed. It never occurs to them he might be lieing.

It can be very frustrating, to watch your husband or boyfriend (who you want to respect) bow and scrape to a total arse, as if his word is gold.

Worse, he gets deeply offended if you try to tell him his pack leader is a liar.

I finally had to point out, that the years his friend claimed to be special forces in the military were also the same years he claimed to be touring with a famous rock band.

I see it happen all the time. I am certian you have seen many examples of it yourself.

posted May 31, 2006 10:39 PM              

I understand why you would want to deny it, seeing it as a weak point.

But there has been a lot of talk on this thread of how women are too naive and easily manipulated, and therefore should not be allowed freedoms.

So, you see, I am obligated to point out where men also have their "niave" blind-spot.

posted May 31, 2006 11:59 PM              

I have tried to alert the women to one of the most commonly used tricks, under the "everything you always wanted to know about men thread," but some refuse to believe it.

posted June 01, 2006 01:51 AM              

First-you pretty much admit men have more power over you then your own judgment-<<<This has really been a lesson.
Shocked as I am, enough men here have admitted that this is true, at least in part.
And enough women have told me that they have recieved such silly accuzations.
I will certainly be tossing out my lingerie, or anything that might look like it was torn off me.>>>

Then, it seems you try to get that power back by disempowering men, making us look stupid, pathetic and even dehumanizing us. The most obvious example-<<< Maybe men just do not fully realize the power the woman has...when he does open up, she is the one in control.
He is taking a risk. She could reject him, she could judge him, she could tell all his secrets, open him up to public ridicule...
Most women are far too nice to do this, but still. He is more in her power than she is in his.
>>>
I may be way off here...but I don't think so.

------------------
"I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest."
John Keats

posted June 01, 2006 01:59 AM            

quote:

---

I understand why you would want to deny it, seeing it as a weak point.

---

posted June 01, 2006 02:33 AM              

Surely the world is filled with games and lies and deceptions. There's no denying that. From BOTH sides of the spectrum~ male/female.

That's why we have to remain alert...and keep on walking when we need to.

What you value, is what you will find.

posted June 01, 2006 02:58 AM              

quote:

---

BerrySweet: When a strong man becomes weak in front of you...well...it's hard not to fall in love.

Swerve: this is what they use against you.
The whole way a woman's emotions are set-up are used against you and you justify it because it feels right.

BerrySweet: Maybe men just do not fully realize the power the woman has...when he does open up, she is the one in control.
He is taking a risk. She could reject him, she could judge him, she could tell all his secrets, open him up to public ridicule...
Most women are far too nice to do this, but still. He is more in her power than she is in his.

---

OHAD- I cannot be-lieve you read this as making men "look stupid, pathetic and even dehumanized."

Especially considering I said it's what makes women fall in love!!!

Wow! That reveals a lot about your thinking. It means you think opening up, and confiding trust in another human being, is "weak, stupid, and pathetic."

That is really sad.

posted June 01, 2006 03:14 AM              

Stupid and dehumanizing-<<<When men bond together in a pack, they lower their guard, and you will see a very smart man become very naive and gullible.
Ohad, if you look around I am sure you have witnessed this yourself.
Normally the pack leader will come up with wild stories:
- That he had sex with three women at once and got them all pregnant
- That he is secretly a millionaire
- That he is working with the government as a secret agent
And all the other men will nod their heads and be very impressed. It never occurs to them he might be lieing.
>>>
Let's see...you write that when in a PACK(a word which I have never seen associated with humans before...) men become NAIVE and GULLIBLE.

Pathetic-<<<Ladies,
From what the men are saying here, their minds revolve around sex. (Not a surprise for most of us.)
It must be terrible to be a man! I am really beginning to feel sorry for how they have to live.
Their obsession with sex springs from their ego. Anything less than being the Alpha Male Super Stud is unacceptable. And maybe only 2% of men really believe they are the Alpha Male Super Stud.>>>
The word "pathetic" is derived from "pathos"-(the definition from dictionary.com) 1. A quality, as of an experience or a work of art, that arouses feelings of pity, sympathy, tenderness, or sorrow.
2. The feeling, as of sympathy or pity, so aroused.

>It must be terrible to be a man! I am really beginning to feel sorry for how they have to live.

Do you see my point yet?

------------------
"I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest."
John Keats