posted August 15, 2006 02:32 PM            

I don't know if the affinities alone can produce the attraction between the two people. I believe that it's possible. I really do believe that there should be certain aspects between them that would also indicate attraction. It doesn't necessarily have to be similar stuff as the affinities. A person with Mars in Scorpio and his partner with Venus conjunct Pluto can be attracted to each other if that person's Venus conjunct his partner's Ascendant. I feel the affinities help the two be able to relate to each other on some level. They are alike and share things in common in some ways. That definitely would help them be attracted.

Parallels and Contraparallels have similar effects as conjunctions and oppositions. It doesn't matter if the planets in parallel and contraparallel aren't in an actual aspect. If you check the declination longitude equivalent charts,they often appear as conjunctions and parallels. Not all of them appear as aspects in the chart. I have a Sun contraparallel Pluto,and there is no aspect between them in my declination longitude equivalent chart. I have a Mars contraparallel Pluto with 1'08,and that's considered too wide by astrologers who use only 1 degree orb for declinations. In the declination longitude equivalent chart,it appears as Mars oppose Pluto with 3'35 orb. I would say that the orbs of declinations vary.

Flexibility in definitely important in Astrology.

posted August 15, 2006 02:34 PM              

could be baised though

posted August 15, 2006 03:30 PM            

Are there any challenging Saturn or Uranus aspects in your synastry with the ones that you weren't attracted to? Challenging Saturn aspects restrict and Uranus challenging aspects detach. That's why I don't like them in synastry.

What are the orbs of the Venus-Mars aspects in the synastry? I am not even sure if Venus -Mars aspects outside 4 degree orb indicate attraction.

posted August 15, 2006 10:10 PM              

my Venus in aspect to any man with a pulse...

posted August 15, 2006 10:24 PM              

I have started seeing someone recently and it just happened that there were several social occasions of all sorts. So he took me to his parties, I took him to my parties...You know, how it can be a bit awkward and nothing ruins a good time like babysitting your date all night long. Well, both of us hit it off with each other friends and co-workers almost immediately. Also, it came as a total surprise that he knew some of my aquantances and vise versa. All together it turned out to be a perfect mix of having great time together and a lot of fun as a part of the group. AND, almost everyone mentioned what a great couple we make.

posted August 15, 2006 11:13 PM            

• Person A
• Virgo ASC 10
• Gemini MH 6
• 1stH Psyche 12, Pluto 20, Uranus 24 Virgo
• 2ndH Mars Libra 29
• 3rdH SN 10, Neptune Scorpio 24
• IC Sag 6
• 6thH Eros 7, Sun 22, Aquarius.Mercury 9 Pisces moved to 7th in most programs
• Des. 10 Pisces, Stellium Pisces= Venus 15, Moon 20, Chiron 23, Saturn 27,
• 9thH Taurus NN 10
• 11thH Cancer Jupiter 26
• this is a Grand Trine/Kite Virgo/Pisces
• Person B
• ASC 29 Leo
• 1stH Psyche 1, Virgo, Jupiter 22 Virgo
• 3rdH Neptune 1 Scorpio, NN 19 Scorpio,
• 4thH Saturn 13 Sag
• 7thH Moon 18 Pisces
• 9thH Stelium Taurus Sun 5, Venus 8, Mercury 19, MH 26, Eros 28
• 10thH Mars 24 Gemini
• 11thH Uranus 2 Leo, Pluto 27 Leo. A Grand square that some call 'off' and 5 T-squares,

posted August 15, 2006 11:22 PM            

I did type that natals should be looked at first. That's what I do. I did notice that B's Saturn squares A's Ascendant,and that verified one of my hunches about challenging Saturn aspect to personal point in synastry.

I am having a hard time reading the stuff that you posted. Is it okay to post your birthdate,birthtime,and birthplace and the same for the person that you are with?

I am sorry for using the word prejudice. I agree that preference is a much better word. Sometimes I suck at putting things into words. Being Dyslexic can suck. It's good for visualizing,imagining,being intuitive,and thinking outside the box but damn...I can get so confused when it comes to words. I am too rightbrained for my own good. I wish that I was more leftbrained. heheheheehe

posted August 15, 2006 11:37 PM            

It's okay. You're pretty cool

posted August 16, 2006 12:20 AM            

I am looking over this synastry. I will type up my conclusions tomorrow. From what I see, this synastry is challenging. My hunch was right about challenging Saturn and Uranus aspect in this synastry. To put it bluntly, this synastry really sucks! I am glad that you didn't get involved with this person in a romantic relationship. there are challenging Saturn,Mars,Uranus,Neptune,and Pluto aspects which I stressed already to be aspects that I wouldn't want in a synastry. There is at least one t-square which indicates considerable challenges,conflict between you two..it can be a like roller coaster.

Yeah....no wonder the attraction is oneside....there is too much stress,conflict,tension for there to be complete attraction for a relationship.

You are better off with somebody else.

posted August 16, 2006 02:10 AM              

Sun Square Saturn (strongest planet in my natal)
Sun Square Pluto (we both have strong positive pluto influences in natal)
Moon Square Mars (we both have strong and positive mars influences in natal..her a few negative as well)
Moon Opposition Neptune is not that bad, not as bad as soom people will make it out to be, how is it any different than a sun opp sun for example. opposites attract, plain and simple.
Mercury Square Ascendant
Venus Square Saturn (discussed in another thread and we (me and others) figured out with the help of ind. natal charts that we take from the positives of this one)
Mars Square Neptune
Jupiter Square Pluto

This has been a perfect relationship so far. better than any other either of us has experienced by a long shot. we are deeply in love. the thing is, in no synastry chart will you NOT find at least 2-3 squares, some similar to the ones I listed. I am happy they are there, they serves a purpose to everyone, to humble us, because nothing is perfect.

posted August 16, 2006 03:30 AM            

My hunches were confirmed about Saturn in challenging aspect to personal planets,points in synastry(in your case,one's person Saturn square Venus,Ascendant,and Mercury)and Uranus in challenging aspect to a personal planet in synastry. One's person Mars squares the other's Uranus. That's also a challenging Mars aspect,and you have 2 more of those. that same person's Mars that is squaring Uranus is also squaring the other's Moon and Saturn too. Actually the Person's Mars in Gemini squares the other's opposition of Moon-Saturn in Pisces and Uranus in Virgo for a t-square. T-squares are very challenging in a synastry and indicate significant problems. When you get one involving Mars,Saturn,and Uranus, there can be considerable conflict,irritations,instability,restrictions,frustrations.

One person's stationary Pluto opposes the other's Sun and square the other's stationary Neptune. This happens to be a 2nd t-square....and this indicates significant problems involving intensity at odds with ego and conflicting with idealism...there can be power issues,confusion,deception,manipulation,distrust....

One person's Mercury square the other's Sun and oppose Neptune for a 3rd t-square, and this indicates significant problems involving communications that conflict self expression and at odds with idealism....there can be confusion,illusion,and deception

That's 3 t-squares total.

One person's ascendant squares the other's stationary Neptune which can indicate overidealization between each other....there can be confusion,illusion,and deception
One person's stationary Pluto quincunx the other's Saturn which can indicate power struggles,restrictions,limitations,manipulations
One's person's Mars quincunx the other's stationary Neptune which can indicate that activity,actions can be conflict with the other's idealism...actions can be confusing,illusive,deceptive...there can also be passive-aggression tendencies between each other.

One Person's Moon conjuncts the other's Moon-Venus conjunction. That would indicate the person's emotional nature is fused/merged with other's emotional nature,affections. However; the other person has Moon-Venus oppose Pluto,and that can indicate that emotional nature,affections are is at odds s intensity..The person's moon's opposes that other's pluto due to its conjunction to Moon and Venus,this could indicate potential manipulation and power struggles which the moon can overreact too.
Conjunctions in synastry aren't all that great if one of the planets is in challenging aspect,that also means that there is also a synastry challenging aspect as well. It can reinforce the other issues that are indicated by the challenging aspect that he/she has.

overall...I didn't like this synastry one bit......I am glad that you two didn't hook up. This is a very tough synastry overall. The 3 t-squares, 3 challenging Saturn aspects,4 challenging Mars aspects,and 1 challenging Uranus aspect. It's no wonder that this didn't turn out to be a relationship.

The first person's planets that I listed was the Taurus

The second person's planets that I listed was the Aquarius

Natal Dynamics for each

I see that one person has Uranus-Pluto in Virgo in 1st oppose Moon-Venus in Pisces in 7th,and that makes that personal independence/power can be at conflict with highly sensitive,idealistic emotions,attractions in relationships. This can indicate unstable,unpredictable relationships that can begin suddenly and end suddenly. with the hard challenged moon, have to watch out for deception,illusion,confusion,and escapism
The Sun square stationary Neptune indicates high sensitivity,idealism,imagination, but have to avoid deception,illusion,confusion,and escapism

The other person has Sun-Venus in Taurus square Uranus, and that can indicate that sensual,practical self expression,affections are in friction,conflict with independence,change,suddenness.....this can also indicate unstable,unpredictable relationships begin suddenly and end suddenly
the person also has Sun-Venus oppose Neptune, and that can indicate sensual,practical self expression,affections are at oddes with high sensitivity,idealism,imagination....have to avoid deception,illusion,confusion,and escapism.........this is actually a t-square.....Uranus in Leo squares the opposition of Sun-Venus in Taurus and Neptune in Scorpio....that indicates a lot of conflict with matters of the heart,idealism,imagination,sensitivity,unpredictableness,change...this can can lead to serious problems in relationships...there could be an attraction to nonroutine partners which can be exciting,stimulating,romantic,idealistic,but can also be very hard to pin down and unpredictable...could end up with unreliable partners.

posted August 16, 2006 04:22 AM            

But you already said that you have a perfect relationship with your girlfriend so far. In the end,you said that nothing is perfect. That's a contradiction.

also...Moon oppose Neptune can indicate there can be too much idealism between each other. You have to make sure that you see each other clearly...especially make sure that you don't overlook each other's flaws...there can be a potential for deception,illusion,and confusion..That could end up with disillusionment..things aren't always what they seem with challenging Neptune aspects at times. They sure can be spiritual,mystical,empathic though.

not every synastry has 2 to 3 squares though. It also depends on what orbs they use. Many astrologers will use much tighter orbs when it involves outerplanets. Permit a wider orb when it involves the Sun and Moon. I use no more than 5 degree orb for synastry aspects. I use no more than 2 degree orb for Uranus. I use no more than 1 degree orb for Neptune and Pluto. The only exceptions is if the outerplanet is stationary which is a strong energy. a wide planetary aspect that involves a stationary can operate like it is within orb due to it being stationary. Also..a stationary outer planet in a house is much stronger than a nonstationary planet in a house.

Just because a person has a certain planet in a easy natal aspect doesn't necessarily rule out the diffiulties that he/she has that involve that same planet in a synastry aspect with somebody else. Just like a person with a planet in hard aspect doesn't necessarily rule out the good things that that involve the same planet in a synastry aspect. This also goes for transits,secondary progressions,and solar arcs.

There are lot of people strong planetary energies that had those same planets in challenging synastry aspects that had problems that relate to those planets.

I do believe that free will is the ultimate factor, but I don't believe in underestimating the difficulties that challenging aspects can indicate. I have already seen one astrologer who thought she saw an excellent synastry but it was a bad marriage. I checked out the chart,and she overlooked 2 t-squares,and 1 involved Mars oppose Mars. She thought the Mars oppose Mars was just stimulation too. There was a lot of other stuff. That synastry wasn't even close to being excellent. It was challenging overall. She learned about seeing the forest and not just the trees.

I feel that we shouldn't gloss over certain aspects. We have to "keep it real"

I am glad that I don't have any challenging Mars,Saturn,Uranus,Pluto,nor Neptune aspects in synastry with my gal. If people like those type of aspects, that's fine with them. Whatever floats their boat. As for my gal and me, we're happy about our synastry. The only squares that we have are Jupiter square each other's Ascendant. That's because she has stationary Jupiter in Sagittarius square Pisces Ascendant,and I have Jupiter-IC in Sagittarius square Virgo Ascendant. Her stationary Jupiter conjuncts my Jupiter-IC conjunction and squares my Ascendant. My Jupiter conjuncts her stationary Jupiter in 9th and squares her Ascendant. Our Ascendants are in opposition. My Jupiter square Ascendant links to her stationary Jupiter square Ascendant. Her stationary Jupiter trines my Sun with 58 minutes of arc. We share similar philosophical,religious beliefs. I also feel that the configuration indicates our interracial relationship. Her Saturn conjunct my Sun with 2'35 orb and trine my Moon with 26 minutes is good for being practical and grounded. Her Moon conjuncts my Sun with 3'56 orb and trine my Moon with 1'47 orb. That's good for emotional,vitalizing,and relationship connection. She actually has Moon conjunct Saturn,and my Sun conjuncts that conjunction and my Moon trines it.Her Moon conjunct Saturn links to my Sun trine Moon. That would indicate a strong serious,relationship bond. Feel that secure in that we can relate to each other easily. I know that she and I will never have the perfect relationship because there will always be some challenges that we will have to deal with and we can get them resolved. Our relationship is very good overall.

posted August 16, 2006 09:43 AM              

you gave me some stuff to think about.
And yes, I also like how you think. You don`t happen to have Mercury in Sag, do you?

Affinity:
Yes, what you wrote about affinities sounds logical to me. You need some synastric connections to really have a connection. But the affinity is the underlying theme, it has to be “pulled into the consciousness” by synastry-aspects. Is that what you mean?
If you did, then I agree. It feels absolutely right and logical to me.
My best friend had a relationship with a guy for more than 7 years.
They had some affinities: they both had a Venus-Mars conjunction in Libra. You should think that would have produced a lot of attraction. But there were two obstacles. The first one was in their natal charts; His Venus-Mars conjunction was conjunct his Uranus, her Venus-Mars conjunction was conjunct her Pluto (she always complained she could never rely on him, and as a matter of fact, in the end he didn`t even have the courage to tell her that it was over; he just had two relationships at the same time. That is a very nasty face of Uranus, isn`t it?).
However the second obstacle was the fact that his Venus-Mars conjunction had no synastry aspects to her planets and her Venus-Mars conjunction was only sextile his moon. There were no aspects to the DC either.
However, I think they stayed together because of the positive moon-aspects (Moon trine Moon; Moon sextile Venus; Moon sextile Mars; Moon trine Saturn; Moon conjunct Neptune, Moon sextile Pluto), but they also had a challenging Moon aspect; his Saturn square her Moon.
In this case the Venus-Mars combination wasn`t enough to produce a lasting attraction, apparently, since they aren`t together anymore. But they are still emotionally close and still on speaking terms (even though he keeps it as a secret from his new girlfriend; what a coward! Sorry, I`m still upset with him for his behaviour towards my friend).
So yes, this is a good example to prove that two people need synastric connections to be attracted, especially Venus-aspects.
Does a lack of Venus and DC-aspects then mean a lack of attraction? Can it be that simple?

Parallels and Contraparallels:
That is a very interesting concept. So it`s really valuable? And if the guy`s Venus was parallel the girl`s mars, you would interprete it like a conjunction? Then it would point towards a strong attraction, but no, wait, not in this case of course, since that Venus-mars parallel also is parallel the girl`s Neptune and contraparallel her Saturn. *sigh* it could have been so nice.
But I guess, if there is a parallel and a conjunction at the same time (like Sun conjunct and parallel Venus) it would be a very strong aspect, no?
And what you said about the orb being too wide: Maybe the orb can be a bit wider, if there are indeed two aspects between the same planets. Like in your case. You have a wide contraparallel of Mars and Pluto and additionally an opposition between those planets. Maybe this opposition enhances the contraparallel, which would have been too wide on its own.

Squares:
Well, I think I disagree a little bit.
Or not?
I mean, there are very different people with different needs. Some need very much harmony to feel at ease, but others want some challenges, too. And those people could be able to cope with squares better than others. I can tell you, I am one of those people. Give me a synastry with not a single square, and I will be bored to death; well I wouldn`t care enough to risk a second glance, I guess.
But I am complicated when it comes to relationships. I am that sad, miserable Uranus-Pluto-Jupiter-Neptune-case.
My Moon in aquarius and my stellium in Sagittarius say very loud and clear: I don`t need anyone. I want space and freedom. Don`t you dare to come too close or I will be gone, before you can take a second step. I belong to only me.
And then there`s this Venus in Capricorn square to Pluto; also the ruler of my ascendant (Jupiter) is in Pisces and Neptune is conjunct Mars and ascendant and square the ruler of the ascendant.
And there`s a voice in me that sais: I crave for passion. I want to belong to someone. I want depth. I want commitment. I need security (that is the Capricorn-Venus I guess and Saturn is a singleton planet).
And a third voice always whispers: Who wants a real relationship? Just keep on floating on dreams. And if you enter a relationship, makes sure, he is the ONE, the soulmate, the one who will complement you so perfectly. And until he appears, dream, dream, dream. And go to the movies.
Well, I think my natal horoscope shows quite some tension, and therefore no relationship of mine will ever be free of challenges and squares. A synastry chart full of harmonious aspects would mean that other parts of my being aren`t noticed.
Sure, there can be harmonious aspects. For example; there could be harmonious aspects to my Venus, I would be attracted and in love. But then suddenly I would have to realize, that the other one doesn`t understand other parts of me (if there were no aspects to Sun and Moon for example, which has happened several times in my life).

Conjunctions.
I agree again. If a conjunction is afflicted, it`s probably better to look for synastric aspects like trine or sextile. I think Arroyo wrote that in one of his books.
If you have a square of Moon and Neptune, then every planet conjunction your Moon would square your Neptune, too.
But if a planet trined the Moon, there would be no square involved. More harmony for the Moon.

Orbs:
I also tend to narrow orbs. But I`m still searching for the perfect orb. But your decision to make a difference between personal and outer planets makes much sense to me.
Even though I must say, I would probably prefer 2° of orb even for Neptune and Pluto. Why the difference between Uranus and those two?
And if you say, you use 5° for other aspects: does it matter which planets are involved?
What orb do you use then for Moon- Uranus for example? 2° or 5° or 3,5°?
Well, something inside me sais you will answer: 2° of course.
But I want to hear your opinion.

And btw the connection between your gal and you, I mean that Sun-Moon-Saturn-connection, sounds just heavenly. An unit of mind and soul, which is probably stable and longterm. Not bad.

Bullhead,

Glaucus actually anticipated my question to you and answered it all. I, too, wanted to ask you if there are severe challenging aspects in your synastry chart.
And even though I think, some squares and oppositions can be good for attraction, I would exclude Saturn and Uranus here.
Uranus can produce some sparks (I`ve experienced this several times), but it`s usually not lasting, and it`s very hard to get close to the Uranus-person. There would have to be excellent other aspects to balance that.
And Saturn, well he is very restrictive, isn`t he? Saturn-aspects are important in synastry to make people feel responsible for each other and stay together. But too many Saturn-aspectes speak of a limited attraction or produce the situation, where one rejects the other.
But I also have seen one hard Saturn-aspect in good relationships; I know one example, where the woman`s Saturn opposes the man`s Moon, and it`s a very lasting relationship. It`s not easy, no way, but they just stick together and work through her difficulties.
But I think if there are 3 or 4 challenging Saturn aspects, it could get too much. I personally am startled, when I see more than one Saturn-square in synastry. But I don`t like Saturn too much; that strange singleton planet in my chart; my sag-planets and Saturn are eying each other suspiciously, waiting who will attack first. Lol
So, maybe there are other opinions on Saturn, of people who are not so “Saturn-suspicious”.

posted August 16, 2006 10:24 AM              

We do not have any uranus aspects in our synastry, except for Sun square Uranus.. but it hasn't been a problem for us. I personally don't like uranus aspects in synastry, but that's because I'm an "all or nothing" sort of person in relationships, and I don't like the on and off sort of relationships.

Even though my boyfriend has Venus in Aquarius, he has TONS of water- Pisces sun, Cancer moon, Scorpio rising, and Scorpio mars- with pluto conjunct his ascendant. Which is good for me, since I have a Scorpio moon & Venus. We also have a lot of shared affinities:

I have venus conjunct pluto, he has venus trine pluto. I have moon conjunct pluto, he has moon square pluto. I have sun sextile moon, he has sun trine moon, etc. We also have no venus/uranus aspects in our natal charts. BUT, we have tons of Uranus aspects in the composite chart... which I think makes sense because we unexpectedly came together, and the relationship moved VERY fast.

I don't have much experience with venus/uranus contacts in synastry... but my ex-boyfriend has the Venus/Uranus square in his natal chart, and our relationship was very short lived... but there was a strong attraction there.

posted August 16, 2006 11:09 AM              

I think it`s important to not rely too much on a single placement, it can lead us to wrong conclusions.
For example in your charts. Even though you have that Venus-Uranus-affinity, both of you seem to need a lot of depth with all that Pluto-energy. And it`s no surprise, Pluto doesn`t like Uranus too much.
However you said you have a Sun-uranus-square and it hasn`t been a problem for you. Maybe that is because you are - to a certain degree- in tune with Uranus, even though both of you have also this Pluto-energy.
Uranus energy in synastry is very unstable; I suppose it works better for shortlived affairs than for lasting relationships.

Saturn:
I think you need some harmonious Saturn-aspects like trine or sextile to feel really bonded. It makes a relationship somehow stable and lasting.
You wrote your moon is conjunct his saturn: well you will hear many opinions of that, and many people think it`s a challenging aspect; one that is really bad for a synastry chart.
My feelings towards this aspects are slightly different. Somehow I think that it makes a relationship very stable, almost unbreakable. But of course it`s never an easy aspect. There will be challenges. For example the moon person can react very sensitive towards the SAturn person, is maybe easily hurt, offended or assumes the other one rejects her, because Saturn tends to be very much in control and withdrawn.
Of course it depends on the other aspects and placements.
However, the SAturn person can also offer much stability to the Moon person, making her feel secure and protected, sometimes even overprotected.
So, no I don`t think this is a bad aspect; it`s an intense one.
But that is just my opinion.

DD

posted August 16, 2006 11:26 AM              

and things can be perfect for a time and I am still allowed to say nothing is perfect!! because it won't always stay that way, because it won't always be perfect. the knowledge that it will soon reach a state of unperfectness is all I need, if you know what I mean. so I can say our experience has basically been perfect, though it won't always be, that would be naive.

how do I find out orbs in the synastry? I'll try once to see if I get it, but not more cause I don't want to do the same thing wrong many times.

lemme see, in synastry I see:

Sun Square Pluto

in natal chart:

me:
sun Scorpio 14°27'06
Pluto Scorpio 02°34'03

her:
sun Taurus 10°02'36
Pluto Scorpio 03°10'02

so I am guessing my pluto square her sun with 7°68'33.