posted August 25, 2006 09:46 PM            

Nice excerpts from Lizzie!!

posted August 25, 2006 09:46 PM            

Really enjoyed your interps -- you really have a way with words

posted August 27, 2006 03:59 AM              

I sooo love this line ...

quote:

---

Plato understood it as the recollection of the soul in the presence of the beloved. Idealisation can make us want to give our best.

---

pixelpixie -

When you said, "which feels a lot more like Saturn than Neptune", I am learning what that is, and it calls for an entire thread on Saturn & Neptune's romance. I mean, I took it to mean that there was such strength of trust due to Neptune in Synastry, yet it had an incredible stabilizing effect. The Mutable Element had the ability to help you shape yourselves around each other, and with other strong astro characteristics, it's the consistency in the ability to re-shape which ultimately gives you the staying (Saturn) power.

I'm learning it's a lot like Stargazer's post I quoted above. I love that line.

Regarding those awesome Neptune/Venus/Asc stuff in Synastry, I found the pattern you followed interesting. I often look for avenues where energy has the opportunity to peak. When I'm going crazy trying to figure out a feeling, I have to look for the not-so-obvious suspects.

I wanted to start a thread on that too cz it's rarely brought up.

posted August 28, 2006 05:49 AM              

I love the way you write also..must be that moon (yours)/mercury (mine) in Pisces lol

Hi Stargazer, thank you for typing those Neptune interpretations out!

and....

posted August 28, 2006 07:13 AM              

Could any1 tell me something abt
Neptune Conjunction Neptune in a composite horoscope?

posted August 28, 2006 09:57 AM            

I just am entranced by this book... I want to share more with you... There are those who say that the outer planets are not important in synastry... I don't agree. Especially when they aspect a personal planet...What do you think?

More on Neptune in synastry....

"For many other people, romantic in the colloquial rather than the philosophical sense, soul-union is a delightful but ephemeral phase of enchantment. It may grow into a mature love, but more frequently ends in disillusionment and complete withdraw of interest. It is to be enjoyed and savoured, but not taken seriously, lest one wind up looking like a fool. One indulges in it,but signs nothing. This is an apparently sensible and balanced way of dealing with Neptunian relationships, but it may backfire badly later on. To honor Dionysus and avoid winding up like Pentheus, one needs to be able to be foolish and, like the Fool of the Tarot, step off the cliff's edge with only vision and the voice of the childlike heart as guides. Although masked by sentiment, Saturn within us may retain its tyrannical control, rather than serving as a container for inner experience. Then there is no cleansing baptisim of Neptune's waters, and no renewal of life; and there may be a very angry god waiting in the wings."

"The Neptunian dynamic in synastry does not inevitably produce a love match or sexual union. Sometimes distance, or lack of opportunity to translate the relationship into everyday terms, enhances, or is even necessary for, the feeling of a profound meeting of the souls. The experience of soul-union may preclude sexual contact. The relationship may be unconsciously arranged by one or both parties so that sexual consummation is incomplete or disappointing, or is curtailed through insurmountable circumstances. The presence of some ongoing or ultimate frustaion for one or both people is often part of Neptune's expression in synastry.
Any Neptunian interchange with another person will point out to us ,often painfully, where we are still unborn."

"Who then is the redeemer, and who the redeemed? Who is the deceiver, and who is the deceived? With strong Neptune contacts between two charts, it can be either person, because- as with all cross aspects- one person's feelings and actions trigger reactions in the other, and both find themselves in the hall of mirrors.
The starting point for deceit lies with the Neptune person, who perceives a redeemer and experiences a flood of primal longings. Neptune may try to play whatever part is required, including that of the redeemer, in order to be loved and healed. Yet one may simultaneously feel inundated, powerless, and chronically resentful in the face of such deep dependency. It is often the other person who is "deceived" or "blinded" by Neptune's mirroring propensities, and ends up being hurt. Yet it is Neptune who is truly blinded, by a fusion of primordial inner image and actual other. Because Neptune glimpses in the face of the other the longed-for salvaton from earthly pain and lonliness, one may refuse to permit the emergence of a real flesh-and-blood partner out of the fog. In the face of such demands, the partner may become deceitful or evasive, rather than risk invoking Neptune's pain and rage."

astro....

I think Neptune/Saturn contacts are very powerful... When it goes bad it goes really bad. Neptune takes the shape of that which contains it, it won't tolerate too much definition.
"The intensity of anger and desire to inflict hurt may be hard for both people to bear, for they may love each other deeply. However, Saturn-Neptune, although inclined to generate disturbing psychological responses in relationship, can also generate enormous healing power.
Neptune can offer the waters of Eden to Saturn's wasteland, bringing renewal and a sense of hope and faith. Saturn can offer Neptune enough safety and stability for Neptune to risk expressing its vision in creative forms. The wounded Neptunian, resistant to incarnation but suported by another's strong Saturn, may find confidence in his or her ordinary humanity, and be willing to make the occasional foray outside Eden's gates. And the wounded Saturnian, cynical and mistrustful, may discover that it is possible, at least sometimes, to relinquish control and allow the healing waters to make the desert bloom"

What do you think?

Aleonine....
I will check the info on the composite chart and see if there is any info....
I think the house position would be very important in how Neptune is activated in the chart.

posted August 28, 2006 12:23 PM            

Saturn square...
How I understand it is like.. Neptune is saying to Saturn, "You are trying to control me" However it may be that Saturn really wants that type of parental control but, not willing to admit it.
"Scenting the threat of imprisionment, Neptune may gradually keep more and more of his or her real feelings, thoughts and fantasies secret and apart from Saturn's grasp. Neptune may also begin to deceive, although this is usually through obliqueness rather than calculated lying.
Neptune the hysreric may utilise illness, physical or psychological, to lodge an inarticulte protest against incarceration.
Saturn, in turn, may sense the escape of its beloved quarry, and may begin to unconsciously exercise those characteristic manoeuvrs designed to render the enemy impotent: destructive criticsim, disinterest, emotional or sexual rejection, authoritarian behaviour, possessiveness, and a general atmosphere of gloom and negativity which leaves Neptune feeling incapable of offering, or finding any joy or inspiration. Neptune's mystical dreams are taken only half seriously, or ignored altogether."
I guess Neptune's protests are rarely direct.

posted August 28, 2006 11:47 PM              

quote:

---

Saturn can offer Neptune enough safety and stability for Neptune to risk expressing its vision in creative forms. The wounded Neptunian, resistant to incarnation but suported by another's strong Saturn, may find confidence in his or her ordinary humanity, and be willing to make the occasional foray outside Eden's gates. And the wounded Saturnian, cynical and mistrustful, may discover that it is possible, at least sometimes, to relinquish control and allow the healing waters to make the desert bloom"

---

Stargazer -

That quote was from a book too? Which book? Wow, you captured the romance I'd hoped. I also like

quote:

---

Neptune the hysreric may utilise illness, physical or psychological, to lodge an inarticulte protest against incarceration.
Saturn, in turn, may sense the escape of its beloved quarry, and may begin to unconsciously exercise those characteristic manoeuvrs designed to render the enemy impotent: destructive criticsim, disinterest, emotional or sexual rejection, authoritarian behaviour, possessiveness, and a general atmosphere of gloom and negativity which leaves Neptune feeling incapable of offering, or finding any joy or inspiration. Neptune's mystical dreams are taken only half seriously, or ignored altogether."
I guess Neptune's protests are rarely direct.

---

posted August 29, 2006 08:57 AM            

I have been quoting from "The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption"
By: Liz Greene
(minus all the spelling errors of course.)

Zala recommended it to me some time ago. She has a section on Natal aspects and house placements as well as Synastry and Composite. But the bulk of the book is about The Mythology and Phsycology of Neptune. It is marvelous.
Zala was nice enough to type out a bunch of things for me.... I am just trying to help myself understand it better by discussing it with you all, and of course, pay it forward....

Glad you liked it...Let me know if there is anything more you all want to know. The section on Venus/Neptune in synastry and the natal interps are wonderful....

posted August 29, 2006 11:39 AM              

"However it may be that Saturn really wants that type of parental control but, not willing to admit it."

I found this very true, becuz this guy used to asked me whenever i phoned him, he would say :"ru trying to control me? U like to know everything i do huh??" When i heard it i felt extra ****** , cuz that never my intention. He said it with a voice seems to me he was actually enjoying it, cuz he thinks i like him 2 much and try to get reassurance from acting and confirming this way. BUT i do not found it cute i found it veryvery annoying! very immature. Countless actions like these. And he was the first guy would like to do it to an extreme.

"Scenting the threat of imprisionment, Neptune may gradually keep more and more of his or her real feelings, thoughts and fantasies secret and apart from Saturn's grasp." (also true, saturn asked for it big time, and he got wht he wished for...)
Neptune may also begin to deceive, although this is usually through obliqueness rather than calculated lying.
Neptune the hysreric may utilise illness, physical or psychological, to lodge an inarticulte protest against incarceration.
Saturn, in turn, may sense the escape of its beloved quarry, and may begin to unconsciously exercise those characteristic manoeuvrs designed to render the enemy impotent: destructive criticsim, disinterest, emotional or sexual rejection, authoritarian behaviour, possessiveness, and a general atmosphere of gloom and negativity which leaves Neptune feeling incapable of offering, or finding any joy or inspiration. Neptune's mystical dreams are taken only half seriously, or ignored altogether."
I guess Neptune's protests are rarely direct.

posted August 29, 2006 11:47 AM            

Venus/ Neptune

"Venus/Neptune exchanges have provided inspiration for poetry and fiction since time immemorial, for the ancient conflict of carnal versus spirtual is often implicit in them, as is the pain of illicit desire. Neptune differs from Venus because it reflects devotion to an idealised image, rather than appreciation of one individual for another, seperate individual.
Neptune loves the soul in the other. Venus simply loves the other, and wants to show it in every possible human way. This can generate exquisite tenderness between two people; but it may also generate bitter disillusionment as well.
Neptune often fantasies the physical consummation of love as a mystical union; but the more coarse aspects of the sexual act, with its noises and smells, and the transience of its pleasure, may seem a violation of something sacred. Venus may inflame Neptune's fantasies, but may have to wait a long time before Neptune does anything about them; and Neptune may even run away at the criticle moment, or inexplicably cool off during or after the act of love itself.
Sometimes Venus/Neptune relationships are not consummated in a physical sense, or may prove to be disappointment on this level. One of the partners may, from the outset, seek sexual solace elsewhere and indulge in considerable deception; or the sexual relationship may be limited or severed because of previous obligations. Sometimes the cross-aspect occurs between people who are seperated by the conflict of different racial or religious backgrounds, or who live in different countries and are unable to uproot. Sometimes one person is willing, but the other has taken relgious vows."

"Neptune may prefer the fantasy to the wart on Venus's left shoulder, or three grey hairs, or the slight bulge which appears around the waist and hips after an enjoyable holiday. This may herald loss of sexual interest., or pursuit of another erotic object who promises to be closer to the ideal- until the new love-object turns out to have a wart on the right shoulder, or flat feet. One of the most unhappy dimensions of Venus-Neptune contacts lies in this Neptunian flight from the bodily reality of Venus's love, for it can lead to considerable pain. Some consciousness of what lies behind these defense mechanisms may help both people to work with the dilemma; Venus can learn greater compassion and sensitivity, and Neptune can learn greater appreciation of the physical dimension of love"

"Venus in myth is not a particularly patient or compassionate Goddess; she is vain and capricious, and intent on her own pleasures. Venus within the individual may react to Neptune's manipulative ploys with increasing distaste, and a tendancy to look elsewhere for a less pathetic companion. This unfortunate scenario may be glimpsed in those established relationships where one partner suffers rejection and humiliation in full knowledge of the other's infidelities, unable to break the grip of the idealisation, and colluding with the partner's acting out of archetypal Venusian shallowness and disloyalty. Here Venus plays the role of seducer and deceiver. Or the Venus person may simply walk out, angry and hurt, leaving Neptune bereft with all its longings unfulfilled, victim to another's sexual wiles. The subtlety, complexity, and intensity of Venus/Neptune contacts in synastry emphasise the importance of ego-boundaries and emotional directness, so that both people can deal with their responses honestly and sensitvely.

Hope that was what you were after....

posted August 29, 2006 11:56 AM            

*******It was love at first sight for both of us, the only time I've experienced it. The negative side was the bad timing, and yes the deception. Deception of the other, and of the Self. The Neptunian theme of leaving out truths to prevent pain, played over and over in our on/off relationship*****
I know exactly what you mean...I have experienced this too.. and it is true on the telepathy... We run into each other after only thinking of one another moments before and we both admit it...

posted August 29, 2006 01:15 PM            

"Venus's power to invoke Neptune's dreams arises from an erotic fascination which is firmly rooted in the body. Neptune's idealisation may make the Venus person feel more beautiful and worthwhile, the experience of having one's Venus strongly aspected by a lover's Neptune can be, at least initially, wonderfully healing to many childhood wounds, and may assuage those feelings of physical flawedness which every human being experiences. Venus- Neptune in synastry may reflect the state of being "in love" par excellence, and a close aspect between these planets is often strong enough to burn through previous commitments and overturn even hard-bitten Saturn's cynicism about love and life."
"Some of the feeling of Venus -Neptune is superbly expressed in the poerty of John Donne."

"When love, with one another so
Interinanimates two soules,
That abler soule, which thence doth flow,
Defects of lonlinesse controules,
Wee then, who are this new soule, know
Of what we are compos'd, and made,
For, th'Atomies of which we grow,
Are soules, whom no change can invade

...And if some lover, such as wee,
Have heard this dialouge of one,
Let him still marke us, he shall see
Small change, when we're to bodies gone."

"The Extasie" from The Penguin Book of English Verse.

So its a good thing too.. With Venus-Neptune cross aspects, sexual love may become a vehicle for ecstatic feelings of unity with all life....
Its Romeo and Juliet to the T.....

posted August 29, 2006 02:12 PM            

The cultural part of the interpretation was interesting because while we do come from different backgrounds-there are some similarities between us coming from our backgrounds so we haven't had any HUGE problems with that. I always thought of our Neptune-Venus Square as him (venus) in the beginning (when we first met) telling me I'm this and I'm that which kind of scared me because I didn't think of me that way. So I had to remind him and tell him I'm not perfect and apparently he knows that....hopefully

But I know I'm kind of guilty at one time or another of over-idealizing too-this planet is very strong in my chart. We also have a sun-neptune quincunx (me=sun) and I read your earlier passage on that which was very good and pretty deep.

*edit* I didn't know that saturn-neptune aspects were considered powerful . We have that both ways. Awesome

posted August 29, 2006 04:02 PM            

Glad to have helped

BlueEyes and others wanting Composite stuff:
I will be back soon... Got meet the teacher and Bed Bath and Beyond tonight....with my kids...1st and 4th grade... I'll be back at School too with all the homework.....yikes!

posted August 30, 2006 11:41 AM            

There is not as much info on this as there is on Synastry...I'm going to condense what is written. however, If something more specific is in question, I'll try to elaborate (if she does). Did that make sense? Wow! Its been a crazy day and it is not even noon...

"Most powerful is a composite in which the Sun makes a strong aspect to Neptune, for the essential goals and meaning of the relationship are coloured by Neptune's lomging for fusion and flight from the pain of the mortal world.
Venus-Neptune, Moon-Neptune, and Mars-Neptune aspects in the composite may prove trickier, because it is harder to disengage one's dreams and idealisations from the partner. Such a relationship may initially generate extremely high emotional and sexual expectations; when reality proves to be merely human, both people may experience deep disappointment and resentment. The "hard" aspects are usually harder because one may experience the gap between fantasy and reality as unbridgeable. Strong Neptune conatcts to other planets in a composite chart make it difficult to achieve contentment in the sphere of life governed by the other planet.
The exaltation which is often experienced may, sadly, not outlast the initial stage of falling in love. One or both people may unconsciously try to play the redeemer; the relationship itself may seem to offer redemption for individuals who have been hurt in love in the past.
Extreme dependency may cause both people to become deeply manipulative and dishonest with each other. The pitfalls are obvious, and potentially very painful. It is possible that, if a composite shows a dominant but badly aspected Neptune, one might think twice about entering such a relationship. Yet such is Neptune's irresistible seductiveness that, even when forewarned, one is likely to fall under the spell.
Because the planets in a composite chart cannot be "processed" in the same way that an individual can work with and develop different levels of expression of planets in the birth chart, composite charts have a curiously fated feeling. I do not believe that they determine the future of the relationship. But both people must learn to live with a certain pattern of energies, which is constellated whenever they interact.
Neptune's longing is more powerful in some composites than in others, and it may, as with an individual, dominate the composite chart. Then we may speak of a Neptunian relationship; and as long as we remain bonded to that individual, a Neptunian relationship it will remain.
Yet the awareness of both people, and their capacity to communicate with each otther in intellectual, emotional, and sexual levels, can matter greatly in terms of Neptune's eventual effects. Just as we can find focus for a composite Neptune in shared commitments which bring Neptune's world alive in creative forms, we can also enhance a composite Saturn, by establishing areas within the relationship where we are self-sufficient individuals, each contributing strength and authenticity to mutual spheres of responsibility and the building of a secure material structure. As in the chart of individuals, Saturn in the composite chart is the complement and container of Neptune. And it may be appropriate, within the context of a relationship, to experience not only Neptune's disillusionment and deceit, but also Neptune's archetypal role of offering solace for the pain of mortality. In many ways we are each other's redeemers, albeit with feet of clay; and Neptune's message in the composite chart may be that, sooner or later, we may need to relinquish control, not only of ourselves but of each other, in order to experience that compassionate cleansing and renewal which is Neptune's special gift.

Hope everyone has a wonderful day!!

posted August 31, 2006 01:58 PM              

My ex is also prone to jerkish/cynical behavior. It used to hurt me so much when we were together, as the lies would get played over and over again. The - was how in my Neptunian fog, I'd convince myself he wasn't intentionally hurting me. The +, the rollercoaster did much to plant my feet on the ground.

posted August 31, 2006 02:31 PM            

I can only hope that one day.. I too can laugh...I can smile because the "dream of it all" was sweet... but I'm still entrenched in ice over it .. Dang ole' Aries Moon....

That is why this Neptunian aspect guy I've been goin out with makes me nervous....