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Author Topic:   magi astrology and cinderella aspects
Ana
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Portugal
Registered: Sep 2009

posted November 18, 2006 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm currently looking into magi astrology.They do have some weird way of looking at certain aspects and i was wondering if any of you here are acquainted with the cinderella aspects of a chart.

i'm looking forward to your replies


Ana

PS: more info in here: http://www.jupitersweb.com/magi_astrology_aspects.htm

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Arnicka
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posted November 18, 2006 05:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks like the way they look at charts takes some special software? The aspects that they see in "their" charts are using some special method, well thats what it looks like to me anyway. Ive looked at the graphics and I would have no idea how to reproduce those using regular western astrology.

Anyone know?

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Ana
Newflake

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From: Portugal
Registered: Sep 2009

posted November 18, 2006 06:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so you belive that their interpretations don't match our charting system?as in what they regard to be a conjunction between chiron and jupiter is not necesarily one in western astrology charts?i'm a bit confused...


edited: one more question, if one day there's a sun mars conjunction, wouldn't it be the same in both types of charts?it's logical that the planets maintain their aspects, isn't it?

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Arnicka
unregistered
posted November 18, 2006 06:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I dont really know but the way their charts look [at least last time I saw the synastry charts on their site], its like no other Ive seen. Plus they want you to order their software [if i remember correctly] and books.

Have you seen their charts? the S on its side in the middle of them. Maybe it is regular western astro but I dont get the "s" with planets being cupped by it, in addition to the planets outside the circle?

Maybe Ive just misunderstood....

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OzMeg222
Newflake

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From: victoria, australia
Registered: Aug 2009

posted November 18, 2006 06:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for OzMeg222     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Magi astrology uses a regular chart and declinations as well. Thats the kind of S thing u see. If u draw one yourself using the declinations as well as regular planetary placements it'll make more sense.

Haven't tried it myself but looking at their examples it makes sense. If u read thru their literature u will see that they use 2 birth charts, the regular and declination.

To me the declination aspects have been rather powerful and filled in gaps from regular astrology, especially synastry.

I'm a complete novice but I've read their book and I retain stuff but thats just the way my brain works.

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Arnicka
unregistered
posted November 18, 2006 07:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Oz Meg makes more sense now!

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Ana
Newflake

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From: Portugal
Registered: Sep 2009

posted November 18, 2006 07:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OzMeg222, there's this thing i don't seem to understand, does an aspect formed in a magi chart match the western chart type?
i've read that if one has a chiron-jupiter conjuntion in their natal chart (the magi type) it makes for a very strong aspect.Is that aspect found in the western type of natal chart as well?

I seem to have this kind of aspect, but in my usual natal chart - the one given by astro.com.Does that count?

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darkdreamer
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posted November 18, 2006 07:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The magi-astrology uses Western charts, their way to draw them is just different. but the placements of the planets are the same as in the usual charts on astro.com. The strange line or wave in the middle of their chart is their declination-chart.
They use both, longitudes and declinations, to determine aspects, but they say parallels and contraparallels are like conjunctions (usually contraparallels are seen as oppositions).
In their system some aspects are seen as linkages, harmonious connections. These linkages are conjunction, trine, quinkunx, parallel and contraparallel. The square and opposition are seen as activations, challenging aspects.

A cinderella aspect is always a linkage between two certain planets.
According to their books the Cinderella-linkages are:

Chiron - Venus (it`s also called the "magical" linkage or marriage linkage)
Chiron - Jupiter
Chiron - Neptune

and to a lesser degree
Chiron - Sun
Chiron - Pluto

Personally I have Chiron contraparallel Jupiter, which is a Cinderella linkage (only according to their beliefsystem), so I am supposed to be trustworthy and a generous person and therefore successful, because I lead other people to trust me. That would increase my chances of becoming a "Cinderella", either marrying a wealthy man or becoming rich myself or famous or maybe simply happy.

They also say, that you need some Cinderella-linkages in synastry to make a relationship work and happy.
Well, I`m not really convinced of their teachings. They emphasize the meaning of Chiron too much for my taste, almost completely leaving out the Moon for example, which I think is a very important planet.

Hope that helps

DD

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Ana
Newflake

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From: Portugal
Registered: Sep 2009

posted November 18, 2006 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ana     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks a lot darkdreamer!it makes sense now



Ana

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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 18, 2006 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Well, I`m not really convinced of their teachings.They emphasize the meaning of Chiron too much for my taste, almost completely leaving out the Moon for example, which I think is a very important planet.

Thats true, and alot of their stuff is really fatalistic too. As if there is no way you can work around a bad aspect.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

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From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 18, 2006 09:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am well aware of the cinderella aspects. I have their book, LOVE AND MONEY.


Venus-Chiron linkage - this is the magical linkage and a golden linkage, and is singularly the most powerful and beneficial linkage that two persons can have. It is also a romance linkage and a cinderell linkage. interpretation:combined destinies,the uniting of futures,becoming one family,money as partners,joining forces,a lifelong relationship,and a charismatic relationship. if you have this linkage with someone,chances are very high that you will be of great help to each other. this linkage also greatly improves the chances of marriage with the linked person. this is the strongest of all linkages and helps form enduring bonds. it has almost mystical influences and seems to help the linked persons in anything that they do as a pair.

Jupiter-Chiron linkage - This is a romance linkage,a golden linkage,and also a cinderella linkage. except for the venus-chiron linkage,it is the most beneficial and powerful linkage that you can have with anyone. interpretations:combined super success,a blessed marriage and relationship, a fortunate family,success as partners,and mutual golden handshakes.

Neptune-Chiron linkage - the lifetime linkage,and a cinderella linkage,this is one of the linkages that creates very lasting relationships. this also a romance linkage and the third most common linkage among married couples. interpretations:lifelong togetherness,a lasting part of the family,security as a family,a secure family life,and long-term security through marriage and children.


Magi uses only 3 degree orb for longitude aspects. 1'08 orb for parallel,contraparallel


linkage aspects are conjunction,trine,quincunx,parallel,and contraparallel

I have Jupiter trine Chiron myself. I share the same views that DD and Dulce Luna have about Magi Astrology. Chiron is one of many centaurs. Over 10 of them have names. Why don't they use Pholus,Nessus,Asbolus...even Chariklo that is named after the wife of Chiron. Now there is Eris to deal with too.

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Cardinalgal
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posted November 18, 2006 11:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you have to be a member to get hold of their software?

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted November 18, 2006 11:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I think so.

But you can order their books without being a member I think.
I have the "Love and money" book, and despite all my reservations I thought it was a good read. Even though I don`t agree on everything said there, there are some things that made me think, like for example the use of parallels / contraparallels and planetary geometry.

DD

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 1003
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 18, 2006 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Sarah ~

In answer to your question, here's what I got when I wrote to them about getting their software. A friend of mine who has the programs says you get the basic natal stuff with membership, but the Synastry and Transits upgrades are what's important (and spendy).....

Hi Zala:

Thank you for contacting the Magi Society (pronounced may-jigh).

The Magi Society specializes in both the astrology of personal relationships and financial astrology. We are sending you this email in reply to the email you sent us. The email you sent us did not ask us about our Financial Astrology Software and therefore we are not including such information in this email. However, if your primary interest is Financial Astrology, please email us back and ask specifically for information on our latest Financial Astrology Software.

The Magi Society is the world's largest and fastest growing worldwide association of astrologers with over 3500 members.

Our membership benefits are designed to provide anyone who joins us with all the tools needed to become an expert astrologer and to build a career as a professional astrologer. By joining the Magi Society, a member receives uniquely valuable computer software, special lessons on astrology, and the ability to join a Study Group and our free Certification Program. Our software is designed for Windows and is fully compatible with all Windows systems and will also run on MACs that are equipped with Virtual PC.

We welcome both novices and professional astrologers to join us. Of course we accept credit cards - one year's membership dues is just $55 and there is a one-time initiation fee of $25.

The Magi Society is much more than just a society of astrologers and a supplier of software. We are at the cutting edge of advancements in astrological knowledge. Since 1995, we have written three astrology books, all of which have become classics and the books reveal to the world what many believe are the greatest discoveries in all of astrology.

If you wish to join the Magi Society, you may do so simply by paying us online, or by faxing or sending us your application.

[If you would like join us and pay us online, you may do so by going to our website at www.loveoracle.com and scrolling to the bottom of the homepage and clicking on the PayPal Button, and then follow the instructions. If you pay us that way, we will receive a record of your payment within 24 hours but please email us and let us know you paid and what you paid for and we will expedite your membership. We would then be able to email you instructions on how to download the software from one of our sites. You may also request a CD by paying a small shipping and handling charge. A backup CD is not necessary since any member may save the downloaded files and use them for any reinstallations.]

For our members who wish to build a career and make money as a Magi Astrologer, we offer a free Certification Program. The Certification Program is designed to help members to thoroughly learn Magi Astrology and become competent enough to be able to charge fees and build careers as Magi Astrologers. The Magi Society helps our Certified Magi Astrologers with advertisements and special websites. For example we have advertised every month for the last two years in Dell Horoscope Magazine.

We offer four levels of Certification. A good student can achieve the first level in about 6 months and would be certified by us to charge fees for consultations based on Magi Astrology. The complete Certification Process requires about 18 months of study, during which time our Certification Candidates are allowed to participate in conference calls to help them more thoroughly learn Magi techniques published in our books and also learn secrets of Magi Astrology not yet published. A member may choose to work through the Certification Process as a member of a Certification Team with 4-7 other members, or the member may choose to study alone.

The Magi Society also offers a Study Program, with a worldwide members chat site, where members work together with other members on study assignments designed to help them learn Magi Astrology and exchange ideas with each other.

We appreciate your interest in Magi Astrology. The Board of Governors of the Magi Society wish you much happiness, good health and fulfilled dreams in this dawn of the New Age.

MAGI SOCIETY's COMPUTER SOFTWARE

The Magi Society has developed its own software for astrology called MAGISOFT, and we provide a basic version of MagiSoft to all our members as a free benefit of membership.

MagiSoft is the only software program designed to help you fully analyze both the longitudes AND the declinations. Every calculation MagiSoft makes in the longitudes is duplicated in the declinations.

The astrological charts produced by MagiSoft are uniquely helpful (they are copyrighted and protected under international copyright laws) and allows you to see both the longitudes and declinations in a remarkably useful way. You can see hundreds of examples of MagiSoft charts at our main website at www.magiastrology.com

MAGISOFT was designed primarily for Magi Astrology but we also wanted MagiSoft to be the most useful astrology program for traditional astrologers. In so doing, we make MagiSoft so that it is able to perform all of the calculations of traditional astrology that our research has found to be actually useful. For example, even the most basic MagiSoft program provides you with the exact time when transiting aspects peak and when a planetary alignment peaks.

Only Magi Society members are allowed to purchase our advanced software upgrades (there are over ten upgrades) including our professional interpretation upgrades and our Heliocentric Upgrades.

THE PURPOSE OF MEMBERSHIP IN THE MAGI SOCIETY
AND HOW TO BECOME A MEMBER

Membership in the Magi Society is designed primarily to help our members to truly learn astrology and master all the principles of astrology that are validated, especially those of Magi Astrology. The society is committed to helping our members learn how to utilize astrology to help themselves to both improve their own lives and to wisely counsel friends and clients. If this is of interest to you, then you should seriously consider becoming a member of the Magi Society. We have designed our membership benefits to help all of our members to be as proficient and knowledgeable in astrology as they can be, and to help them to reap the maximum benefits from astrology.

To help our members attain this goal, we provide them with the most useful and powerful computer software in astrology, and also lessons on astrology that contain astrological secrets of the Magi Society. Members will be able to access these lessons through the Members' Only Section of our website. Members may also join our free Certification Program to help them learn Magi Astrology either to become a professional astrologer or to simply learn as much Magi Astrology as possible for their own use.

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jenfullmoon
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From: California
Registered: Jun 2009

posted November 18, 2006 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jenfullmoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just think their system sounds very weird.

And didn't Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt have the Cinderella linkage? Clearly, that worked out well for them...

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 1003
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 18, 2006 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jen ~

They had a Heartbreak Clash and Nuclear Clash, and who knows how many others. Magi calls hard Saturn aspects "Saturn Clashes" (along with some other colorful names such as the one below ) and there are milder clashes as well as more problematic clashes -- Saturn quincunx Jupiter is a Nuclear Clash.

http://www.magiastrology.com/pitt_aniston.htm

It's rare to not have at least one Clash (hard) aspect with a partner, and I believe squares, oppositions etc are necessary to help us grow emotionally and spiritually.....

[URANUS QUINCUNX VESTA]
Linkage: ROM/R= +00. SEX/R= +120. CMPT/R= -185. URANIAN ADVENTUROUS LINKAGE. THELMA AND LOUISE LINKAGE. FRIENDSHIP ON THE WILD SIDE. REVOLUTIONARY FRIENDS. BRAVE FRIENDSHIP. Vesta Linkages are helpful to relationships but this is not a Vesta Linkage. Uranus overpowers Vesta and makes this a highly potent linkage with many faces. Most of its faces cause problems in your lives. For example, this linkage can contribute to the two of you doing wild things you would not ordinarily do and should not do - you encourage each other to take risks and do what you should not. With this linkage, it is less likely the two of you will be wise when together.

Here's a nicer Magi aspect:

[NEPTUNE CONTRA-PARALLEL VENUS]
Linkage: ROM/R= +160. SEX/R= +90. CMPT/R= +160. ROMANCE LINKAGE. LIFETIME LINKAGE. ROMANTIC GOLDEN LINKAGE. This is one of the most powerful Romance Linkages and is often symbolic of an enduring romance. In terms of creating lifelong relationships, this is the best Linkage other than the Cinderella Linkages. This great linkage bestows and sustains a very harmonious, peaceful, serene and romantic union. It also improves the quality of sex between the two of you and even helps the two of you succeed and make money in what you do together.

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darkdreamer
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posted November 19, 2006 09:54 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, regarding the relationship and the split of Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston, a lot of astrologers didn`t see it coming.
I guess they have been blinded by that nice Sun-Moon and Venus-Jupiter conjunction. But their synastry is an example for the fact, that you cannot base an analysis on one aspect alone. I`m sure they had some other astrological problems indicated in their charts.
His Saturn squaring her Mars, and her Saturn squaring his Moon-Venus-conjunction were certainly not a thing of pure delight.
His Pluto squares her Moon and her Pluto squares his Sun. So, I think they had their fair share of problems, which may have "darkened" their sweet ties of Sun-Moon and Venus-Jupiter. Actually those two conjunctions are under pressure themselves, since Jennifer`s Pluto squares the Sun-Moon-conjunction and Brad`s mars squares the Venus-Jupiter-conjunction.
However, the magi`s weren`t the only astrologers who chose to ignore that.
Also, even though I don`t want to defend them, but they always stress that Cinderella linkages can make you fall in love, but that this is not a guarantee to stay in love. That depends on the other linkages, and clashes.

However, there are some cases, in which their system doesn`t really work (at least as far as I understood it).
They say that a Heartbreak clash can make a couple fall deeply in love with each other at first (or at least it feels like love), but then it will break them apart.
However, one of the most famous long lasting Hollywood couples have that. Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward actually have a Heartbreak clash, but they are still together.
however they also have the magical linkage.
I also know a couple who share that Heartbreak clash and the magical linkage. Well, it`s not always an easy relationship, but it has lasted now for about 5 years (they have been friends for 10 years), and I really can`t see those two ever breaking up.

HOwever, Azalaksh, it seems that you have been working with the magi-system. How are your experiences with it?

DD

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 1003
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 19, 2006 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi DD ~

No, I never got the Magi software nor do I work with it, but one of my best friends has it and uses it regularly. For the past year or so she's been studying a couple she knows who have LARGE marital problems -- events seem to bear out the accuracy of *some* of the Magi linkages and clashes.

However, they downplay the importance of Sun/Moon in relationships -- so I think they've veered off the path and are ignoring an extremely useful linkage. From my own personal experience, Sun conjunct, sextile or trine Moon bestows a special bond and sense of connection. I know a couple Pisces fellas whose Suns conjunct my Moon, and the ease of interaction is manifest. Also Magi seems to be all about Sex, Marriage and Money -- and for me, although perhaps not to others there is more to Life.....

Venus trine Jupiter is a great aspect – here’s what Magi says:

VENUS TRINE JUPITER
Linkage: ROM/R= +40. SEX/R= +40. CMPT/R= +199. LOYALTY LINKAGE. PEACE LINKAGE. This linkage is found more often in lifelong married couples than any other linkage except for Chiron Linkages and Sexual Linkages. This helps to build a mutually forgiving relationship and the highest degree of harmony between two persons. Also greatly enhances loyalty and friendship. Jupiter's presence in this linkage reduces the stress level of this relationship and elevates both of your desires for peace and forgiveness between you. When arguments do arise, they will be settled pretty quickly or overlooked and forgotten. This linkage also raises the level of honesty and fairness in this relationship. Although this linkage has no direct effect on romance and love, all of the attributes of this linkage are very helpful to any love relationship and enhances compatibility so much that this is the number one linkage in Compatibility Rating.

I've gotten a few reports from my friend -- synastry and transits -- and they do have valid interps from my own experience, but Magi is a bit over the top for me (I'll copy in one synastry aspect below that's a whopper). I immediately rebel against any astrological system that says "It WILL be this, it CANNOT be that" -- people are just not that cut and dried. And the use of the terms “All, None, Never, Always” makes my Libra Sun go bonkers!!

Here's the WOW interp I was talking about:

JUNO PARALLEL VENUS
Linkage: ROM/R= +115. SEX/R= +300. CMPT/R= +50. ULTIMATE SUPER SEXUAL LINKAGE. JUNO SUPER LINKAGE. ORGASM LINKAGE. This Juno Linkage is found more often between two lovers than any other linkage. It creates the highest level of sexual attraction and NEED, and it also helps to create the conditions and circumstances necessary for intimate sexual contact to actually occur, whether the two of you are both single or even both married to someone else. This is one reason why Juno rules the AFFAIR.

The major shortcoming of this linkage is that it is a Juno Linkage and all Juno Linkages are deceptive and fleeting in nature - the sexual attraction and need created by this linkage will not last long. While it lasts, you are in lahlah land and all you dream about is having sex with this person; it is as if you are under a spell, and you are. You are under a JUNO SPELL. All Juno Linkages cast spells and all spells will be broken sooner or later. When this spell breaks, if you do not have other strong linkages with this person, you will wonder what you were doing and unless the two of you have Chiron or Vesta Linkages and other strong linkages, your relationship will fall apart.

Venus, Mars and Pluto, the three Sexual Planets, rule sexual ATTRACTION, but Juno rules SEXUAL RELATIONS. The sexual power of Juno Linkages is next to none. In fact, the sexual power of Juno Linkages is overwhelming.

Before Juno Linkages came along, the three Sexual Planets Venus, Mars and Pluto linked with each other to form Sexual Linkages and these linkages were the most powerful at creating sexual attraction. But when Juno entered our astrological lives, we learned that Juno immediately dominated everything in our lives related to sex and overpowered all of the three Sexual Planets. The three Sexual Planets are all rulers of Sexual Attraction. But Juno is the MATING PLANET; Juno is the SEXUAL SPELL PLANET. Juno is ruler of INTIMACY, SEXUAL INTERCOURSE, ORGASMS and the need for orgasms.

Juno represents having orgasms together.

The difference between Juno and the Sexual Planets can be explained this way:

The Sexual Planets are limited in their sexual power because they only rule sexual ATTRACTION. But attraction between two persons does not mean they will actually become lovers. Two persons can be sexually and romantically attracted to each other and yet never ever actually become lovers. Virtually everyone has had an experience where there was strong mutual attraction but intimacy never occurred. The reason was Sexual Aspects involving only the Sexual Planets but no Juno Linkages.

On the other hand, Juno not merely creates the strongest attraction, it also creates the SEXUAL NEED AND OVERWHELMING DESIRE to have sex with the person.

Juno has dominion over all forms of physical intimacy, including making love. Juno rules the actual sex act and having orgasms. For this reason, unless two persons have a Juno Linkage, they are unlikely to ever make love or have sex together, even if they have a ton of Sexual Linkages and Romance Linkages.

To put it another way:

Juno creates something that the three Sexual Planets do not. Juno creates sexual NEED and ATTACHMENT. It is one thing to be sexually attracted to someone, and it is a whole different condition to NEED someone sexually. Whereas Chiron creates emotional need such as needing someone's love, Juno represents sexual needs such as feeling sexually unfulfilled without being able to have sex with a person, and incessantly dreaming about the person in a sexual way. It is a Juno Spell. This can be good or bad depending on all the rest of the linkages and clashes the two of you form.

One final and important note: the attraction and need created by this linkage is often fleeting. Sometimes it lasts just one weekend (oh what a weekend it was). Whenever you have this Juno Linkage with anyone, you should always remember that Juno is ruler of the AFFAIR, and has nothing to do with true love. There cannot be love without Chiron Linkages.

(**whew..... fans self vigorously**)

Zala

PS: I don't think the Cinderella Transits should be taken lightly -- they do seem to play a part in attraction.....

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darkdreamer
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posted November 19, 2006 11:22 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, that was one strong text regarding the Venus-Juno-linkage. lol
But I agree with you on the importance of Sun-Moon-connections. And of course their interpretation of Juno is.... interesting, a little bit out of the traditional way to interprete it (okay, that was the understatement of the century. lol)

But even with all their shortcomings and all my reservations, it still intrigues me.
At least enough to spend some minutes toying around with the comparision of an on and off-couple. So I had a "magi-look" into the "endless story of Sienna and Jude".
I hope you don`t mind if I share my findings. I found this at least interesting.

Those two actually share two Cinderella linkages. Jude`s Jupiter is conjunct Sienna`s MErcury and trine her Chiron, forming what the Magi`s call "a romance super linkage". There is much romantic attraction and attachment indicated here. And very interesting, it seems that Jude made her a Cinderella (the Chiron-partner is the one who profits the most, and in this case it is Sienna). WEll, that seems to be true. Who has heard of her, before Jude came along? Hands up please! Maybe I`m biased, but I haven`t heard of her before.
Another Cinderella - linkage is formed, because her Pluto parallels his Chiron. Well, I don`t know how to interprete this aspect, but there seems to be something powerful at work.
They have one more Chiron-linkage, because his Moon is contraparallel her Chiron, indicating some caring and emotional attachment between them.

But they have a bunch of Juno linkages.
His Venus conjunct her Juno
His Chiron trine her Juno
His Juno conjunct her Uranus
His Pluto contraparallel her Juno
His Juno parallel her Jupiter.
The Magi say on their website,t hat if there are more Juno-linkages than Chiron-linkages, the relationship will probably be mainly about sex and will stay an affair,w ithout resulting into a marriage.

To fall in love two people have to have at least one romance linkage.
Sienna and Jude have two; the Jupiter- Chiron-trine.
And also his Venus is parallel her Neptune, indicating a longterm romantic attraction between them.

But what is very noticeable are the sexual linkages in their comparision. They have 4 of them.
Pluto conjunct Mars
Chiron trine Juno
Pluto contraparallel Juno
Venus conjunct Juno.

Well, Venus conjunct Juno, is the strongest sexual linkage according to the Magi website.
And Chiron trine Juno comes next in strength; this one is the only Juno-linkage that is actually a sign of love. It`s called the "long term-linkage" i think.
the Mars - Pluto linkage is a very strong sexual linkage, too. It signifies sexual urges that are very urgent. But it can fizzle out after a while.

Additionally Jude`s Jupiter is parallel Sienna`s Sun; this one is called the "linkage of forgiveness", indicating that he will forgive her, no matter what she`s doing.

Her Uranus is parallel his Venus and his Mars, those are called the "swinger"-linkages. How enlightening! lol
It could make you get into an "on-off relationship. They both have a need for change and excitement, maybe she more than him. Hmm.

However, they also have a bunch of Saturn clashes. 4 actually.
Three clashes of his Saturn with her Mercury, Uranus and Neptune. This shows that he must have been very controlling with her and maybe she felt suppressed and choked in some way.
But most interestingly, it`s her Saturn that makes a contraparallel to his Chiron, which is the Heartbreak clash.
So, even though he seems to be the "bad guy" in this relationship (His saturn as a restrictive force to her Mercury, Uranus and Neptune), it is her, who will break his heart in the end, or has already broken his heart (her Saturn contraparallel his Chiron).

Also, his Pluto is square her Sun, that is one nasty clash, powerplays of the worst kind indicated.

So, from a Magi-perspective, their relationship seems to be doomed.

1. There is considerable romantic attraction and emotional attachment. They may really think they are in love. But this romantic attraction is just not deep enough. (only 2 romance linkages)

2. They are sexually very attracted to each other, and this sexual attraction could be the reason, they always get back together. (4 sexual linkages9

3. This relationship will never be a balanced one. There are too many "third parties" involved and both feel the need to change (Uranus-Venus, Uranus-mars linkages)

4. With all those nasty Saturn-clashes (and not enough romance linkages to counterbalance them) they are simply incompatible. They hold onto each other and think they are in love, because they are sexually attracted; but their outlooks in life are just incompatible, and since both (especially Jude) may feel that, they try to control and manipulate each other into becoming a different person, so the relationship would have a chance. Of course that never works.

WEll, that was fun.

DD

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 1003
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 19, 2006 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DD ~
quote:
their interpretation of Juno is.... interesting, a little bit out of the traditional way to interprete it (okay, that was the understatement of the century. lol)

That WAS fun!! But again the excessive use of black/white terms turns me off (“Nasty” Saturn clashes, or “you would not want to get involved with anyone whose Saturn clashes with your natal Juno”). I don’t think of Saturn as the malefic Magi apparently does. There are Saturn Linkages as well as Saturn Clashes. Am working on getting excerpts of Bil Tierney’s Twelve Faces of Saturn post-able to offset the tendency of some to Saturn Fear & Loathing….. perhaps I have a better attitude towards Saturn because it’s conjunct my Sun natally and I’m used to it ;-) I’ve got tSaturn conjunct nPluto until February or so and it hasn’t been the totally oppressive restrictive downer it’s reputed to be – I’ve been a bit less optimistic and sunny at times than usual but that’s it (so far – knocks on wood!!)…..

The tendency of Magi interps to treat human beings as merely aspects is what I find off-putting. I believe we are much more than that – time for a couple of my fave astro quotes:

From Steven Forrest: http://www.stevenforrest.com/lovehandles.html

quote:
To me, in the realities of the astrological counselling room, there are
two immutable premises:

There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that
is so inherently sweet that enough selfishness, confusion about sex, or
immaturity cannot turn it sour.

There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that
is so inherently bitter that enough patience, devotion, and humility can
not only make it last, but make it something precious to both people.

From Bill Herbst: http://www.billherbst.com/

quote:
Human beings are not signs of the zodiac, and astrology neither reveals nor determines the quality of our consciousness. The expresson of our charts is largely a function of our maturity, rather than the other way around. Our species is chock full of human beings who are mired in seemingly permanent adolescence, no matter what their age or elevation in culture. In terms of spiritual development, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. Nonetheless, the water exists. We choose.

I have some of the interps you mentioned, and a few more interesting ones that I’ll copy in below. For instance Jude/Sienna's Sun sq Pluto – Magi calls it the Classic Schism -- COULD degenerate into power struggles, depending on the maturity of the individuals involved – there’s an upside too:

Sun Square Pluto:
Your relationship is intense, magnetic, and complex. You are fascinated by each other and you engage in deep, intense discussions and encounters that unveil your innermost thoughts, feelings, goals, hopes, fears, and ambitions. This is not a superficial relationship! You are very uninhibited with each other, and you open up to each other more readily than to others. Be wary of power struggles, however, as Pluto, in particular, may be tempted to use the magnetic attractive power over Sun to manipulate and control Sun. Also, either of you may feel threatened, embarrassed, or disempowered by revealing so much of yourself to the other, and consequently feel the need to be secretive and competitive with each other. You have a profound influence upon one another, for good or ill.

Here’s a few of the Magi Romance, Sexual and Clash linkage interps from some of the reports I’ve seen:

MARS TRINE CHIRON
Linkage: ROM/R= +180. SEX/R= +190. CMPT/R= +160. SEXUAL ROMANCE LINKAGE. This is both a Sexual Linkage and a Romance Linkage. The overall attraction that this linkage creates is actually stronger than any Sexual Linkage because this linkage creates romantic attachment that the other Sexual Linkages do not.

JUPITER CONJUNCT MOON
Linkage: ROM/R= +85. SEX/R= +65. CMPT/R= +130. FORGIVENESS LINKAGE. This is a sign of mutual forgiveness. The two of you usually give each other the benefit of the doubt. You are most likely to be supportive of this person. This is a very beneficial linkage between friends. Lovers with this linkage can be good friends as well as unselfish lovers. Helps the two of you have a peaceful and blessed relationship.

SATURN QUINCUNX JUPITER
CLASH: ROM/R= -200. SEX/R= -00. CMPT/R= -200. NUCLEAR CLASH. You are the Passive Person of this Saturn Clash. From the standpoint of compatibility, this is the worst of all clashes. Almost anything you do together that would help you ends in failure. This clash usually results in a highly stressful relationship with a lot of finger pointing. So if you are not involved with this person, our advice is to not get started. If you are already involved, YOU MUST gather up the strength to make the break. You are likely to be hurt by this person and eventually regret any relationship that you have had with him/her. This is the case no matter how good this person really is. The harm to you is usually inadvertent, and often irreparable.

NEPTUNE QUINCUNX SUN
Linkage: ROM/R= +95. SEX/R= +95. CMPT/R= +185. ROMANTIC LINKAGE. This linkage creates a karmic bond and the feeling that you were close to this person in a previous life. It is also indicative of immediate attraction on a non-sexual level. The effects of this linkage are enduring and help to build a smooth and peaceful relationship. As a result, this linkage is one of the best linkages at improving compatibility. But no linkages are as powerful as Chiron Linkages at creating the mystical bond of love.

[NEPTUNE TRINE VESTA
Linkage: ROM/R= +170. SEX/R= +100. CMPT/R= +180. LIFELONG FRIENDS. COMPATIBILITY LINKAGE. VESTA SUPER LINKAGE. This is a great linkage to have and is one of the best Vesta Linkages. The high level of compatibility that results from this linkage can overcome many other problems the two of you might have.

NEPTUNE CONJUNCT SATURN
Linkage: ROM/R= -35. SEX/R= -35. CMPT/R= -55. SATURN LINKAGE. You are the Saturn Person of this linkage, and this gives you some sway over most parts of this person's life. It is best to view your influence as a responsibility. If you are unselfish and wise, you can help this person. But for some reason, this linkage works in such a way that if you are unwise or selfish, you will both suffer and also derail this relationship.

CHIRON TRINE MERCURY
Linkage: ROM/R= +105. SEX/R= +75. CMPT/R= +165. UNDERSTANDING LINKAGE. Generally, the two of you are on the same wavelength, you enjoy talking to each other, and are of like minds. So much so that sometimes, words are not necessary. The two of you have intuitive mutual understanding and it does not require real effort for either of you to make yourself clear to each other. Even though this linkage does not directly enhance sexual attraction, this linkage makes sex more fulfilling because you can both sense each other's desires. This is a very significant linkage and greatly helps your relationship.

CHIRON TRINE JUNO
Linkage: ROM/R= +190. SEX/R= +300. CMPT/R= +155. LIFETIME PARTNERSHIP LINKAGE. ULTIMATE LONG-TERM SEXUAL LINKAGE. CHIRON LINKAGE. Normally, a linkage formed with Juno results in a Juno Linkage and creates attraction based on some kind of dream that is just an illusion about your relationship and each other. In other words, a Juno Linkage casts a Juno Spell over you. Fortunately, sooner or later during good transits, the Juno Spell can be broken and you wake up from the spell; when you do, the attraction you felt fizzles out and you want out of the relationship.

But this linkage is not that way.

This is not a Juno Linkage but this is a Chiron Linkage because Chiron overpowers Juno's bewitching power. Like most Juno Linkages, this Chiron Linkage does create sexual attraction and need, but unlike Juno Linkages, the attraction and need last a lifetime. You will feel like you are under a Juno Spell but it is different because this linkage comes with romantic attraction that also lasts a lifetime. For both these reasons, this is the one of the most powerful linkages at creating lifelong relationships.

Like Juno Linkages, this linkage also fosters mutual dreams and mutual illusions - but in this case, they just about never die, and therefore help the two of you to stay together even in the worst of times.

If the two of you also have other Chiron Linkages, and you are both each other's type, or not too far from it, then you could fall in love and the chances are very high you will have a very long-term relationship.

Even if you are not each other's type, the romantic and sexual attraction and the dreams and illusions this linkage produces can help the two of you to overlook problems as well as each other's shortcomings, and therefore you may still end up in love. However, this is just one single Chiron Linkage and it is not all the two of you need and unless you also have a Romantic Super Linkage or great Grand Trines, your relationship will be just about always a challenge - because relationships founded on Juno are always a challenge.

URANUS OPPOSITION CHIRON
Activation: ROM/R= -120. SEX/R= +50. CMPT/R= -150. INFIDELITY CLASH. This clash can be a problem if you are contemplating a serious relationship with this person. When a couple has this Clash, the chances of infidelity are increased because of the adventurous and independent nature of Uranus. You should also beware of having even just an affair with this person. If you are married or committed, but are looking for a fling, this person is not the one. This Clash often gives this person both the ability and the desire to bring turmoil into whatever other relationship you already have.

JUPITER PARALLEL PLUTO
Linkage: ROM/R= +50. SEX/R= +75. CMPT/R= +175. GOLDEN LINKAGE. The two of you should be able to work together fabulously well to attain shared dreams. From the money perspective, the power of this linkage is so potent that it has a nearly mystical quality. This linkage is also helpful in boosting sexual attraction and compatibility. The one area that this linkage does not improve directly is romance and therefore it does not have any direct effect on love and marriage. On the other hand, when two persons make good money and have good sex together, they are much more likely to stay together. In this sense, this Golden Linkage does have an effect on a love union.

SATURN CONTRA-PARALLEL JUNO
Activation: ROM/R= -150. SEX/R= -250. CMPT/R= -195. SATURN CLASH. Quite often, this clash makes you disinterested in this person - you just don't feel the right chemistry. This is a good thing because you would not want to get involved with anyone whose Saturn clashes with your natal Juno.

Magi provides another angle in studying astro, and I’m open to adding these other opinions and nuances to my understanding. Thanks for your insights, DD.

Zala

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted November 19, 2006 01:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Zala,

yes, their black and white "orders" really put me off, too. REading their intepretation of the Saturn-Jupiter-clash made my toes curl. First of all I would never tell a person, that he or she MUST get out of a relationship. That is so arrogant and stupid!
All I can say is that there are some problems and challenges indicated, but like you said, of course a couple can overcome most challenges, if it is prepared to work on the issues and if they really love each other.
So, yes, that interpretation and their tone really puts me off.
Also, I know someone, whose Saturn is quinkunx my Juno, and I can`t say that I`m "disinterested". Quite the opposite! I have never felt so much attracted to anyone before. lol
Of course we share some sexual linkages like:
His mars conjunct and parallel my Venus (and also parallel my Sun, if that matters)(3°10 / 0°16)
His Venus quinkunx my Pluto (0°39)
His Pluto contraparallel my Juno (0°13)
And we actually have also a Double Chiron-Juno-linkage:
His Juno quinkunx my Chiron (0°48)
His Chiron contraparallel my Juno (0°00!!)

And among other nice aspects we have
His Venus conjuncts and parallel my Jupiter (1°29 / 0°11)
His Venus contraparallel my Chiron (0°06)
His Chiron trine my Sun and Mercury (1°23 / 2°16)

And some more. Maybe that counterbalances that Saturn-Juno-thing.

However, I also don`t think Saturn is nasty or bad. Actually you need some Saturn-aspects, yes, even challenging ones, to feel committed to another person. That`s my personal view on Saturn. It`s not easy; and either you run away from the responsibility for each others in the beginning or you stay and will be able to face whatever challenges come your way; at least you`re prepared to work them through and stand by your man / woman even in difficult times. I wouldn`t want a synastry without Saturn-aspects.
Even though I must add, if there are too many challenging Saturn aspects, the whole thing can get too heavy, restrictive and gets you down. It all depends on the overall picture, and some Saturn-aspects are needed.
As well as a bunch of "love-ties" and "sex-ties" and not to forget "communication-ties".

DD


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libraschoice7
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Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 19, 2006 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So many long term couples have Saturn in their synastry, there really isn't any way to avoid Saturn contacts, Magi has a way of making things sound so dramatic. They make the bad aspects sound hopeless(which it's not, anything is possible). Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

I "FEEL" therefor I am

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darkdreamer
unregistered
posted November 19, 2006 02:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Librachoice,

I absolutely agree.
But luckily, Magi also make the good aspects sound so dramatic. I liked to read the interpretation of the Chiron-Juno-linkage.
Mmh, I guess I`ll stay open to their angle in astrology, but remain faithful to mine.

DD

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 5819
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 19, 2006 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Magi Society is too judgmental.

Another thing..they don't even use same planet aspects except for Mars-Mars. That makes no sense. Also..they use quincunx as a linkage angle. They don't even use a sextile. Sextile is ptolemaic aspect,but quincunx isn't. How come they don't use the semisextile. That aspect is 12th harmonic like the quincunx. Semisextile is 1/12 of the 12th harmonic and quincunx is 5/12.

I just don't see how Saturn-Chiron and Saturn-Jupiter are devastating in a marriage. I bet that there is other worse things to back it up

They always go and on about how Princess Diana's Chiron and Jupiter formed the worst Saturn clashes with Prince Charles' Saturn. I never read anything about how Prince Charles' Sun formed a fixed grand cross with Princess Diana's Moon,Venus,Uranus t-square. Grand cross is the most challenging geometrical aspect pattern. That would be far more challenging than aspects between social planets,Jupiter and challenging aspect involving the minor planet,Chiron.


I put extreme emphasis on aspects that don't involve personal planets. I feel that aspects involve personal planets are a lot more important than aspects that don't involve personal


The ascendant and the midheaven are very important to use in synastry too,and they are not even used.

In relationship astrology, I learned that free will is the ultimate factor and that you can never tell somebody to get out of a relationship because they have challenging aspects. I feel that all relationships are meaningful because we all learn from each other. I believe in karmic relationships.

They say that Chiron rules karma. They only talk about positive aspects as being karmic bonds. That makes no sense to me. Karma can be both negative and positive. Some couples with negative karma can come together to resolve karmic debts,and they don't have to be bad relationships.


They say that Jupiter is a benefic,and rules JudaeChristianity. They say that Saturn is a malefic and rules atheism and the occult. They really look at the occult as something bad. Occult isn't bad. Occult is just hidden knowledge that's usually referring to the metaphysical.


I just don't believe that Chiron rules marriage,romance,career,and children no kind of way. It's only a centaur. How they don't use Chariklo? That centaur is named after Chiron's wife.


I hardly can relate to their interpretations of Sun-Saturn and Sun-Pluto....I am not a control freak with a big ego. I am the opposite..especially having a history of low self esteem.


Magi Society asserts that Saturn is representative of Atheism

The symbolism of control is so pervasive and strong in Saturn that it shows up in other facets of Saturn's symbolisms. In other words, most Saturn aspects have that characteristic. As a result, people with Saturn aspects,particularly Sun-Saturn aspects,have an above-average inclination to be atheist or agnostic. This is because they despise the very idea of a higher power of any kind,since they themeleves are the ones who want to be in control and not have to answer to,or even think about,a higher power.


In my experience,I have noticed challenging Saturn aspects manifesting as insecurity,inhibition,and depression and not control freaks.
I think the challenging Pluto aspects have to do with power issues. I have a lot of Saturn aspects,and I am no control freak. I do have a long history of insecurity,inhibition,and depression.


I can't relate to a lot of their natal aspects when it comes to materialism....especially the Venus-Neptune and Jupiter-Chiron. According to Venus-Mercury,I am supposed to be articulate,mentally adroit,good memory,especially well coordinated with orderly and logical mind...that is definitely not the case with me who has history of Dyslexia and Dyspraxia, and those conditions tend to be disorganized,problems with sequential information,and Dyspraxia is developmental coordination disorder.

I have Uranus-Chiron,and I don't have the ultimate in hypnotic charisma.


I was an atheist for 2 years, but it wasn't for the reasons that they suggested. I was just bitter about life in general and even depressed. I was in the US Navy for a time. Most of my life including now,I believe in God and even talked to God. Since 1999, I am pantheist who believes that God is in all and all is in God. My beliefs are Neopagan,New Age,and Unitarian Universalism.


According to Magi Society:
Neptune is symbolic of both femininity and artistry. When a man has artistic talents,he usually has a a very strong aspect of Neptune,which makes him prone to being more feminine than any other aspect because Neptune is the most feminine planet.


I have also seen aspects work beyond 3 degree orb..when it involves aspects between personal planets and even aspects between personal planets and social planets.

Some of their ideas like Magi Quads are straight from Uranian Astrology who use planetary pictures like Sun/Jupiter midpoint = Venus/Pluto midpoint.

Magi uses midpoints for Saturn clashes. Using midpoint increases the odds of Saturn clashes big time.

I only found Magi Astrology useful for things like presidential elections.


Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward are the longest married couple in Hollywood,and they have a heartbreak clash.
They even have a challenging aspect between Mars and Saturn.

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libraschoice7
Knowflake

Posts: 174
From: the city so nice they named it twice!
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 19, 2006 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for libraschoice7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am abit confused on what Magi considers overwhelming sexual desire with Juno connections, do they have to be only with Venus/Mars/Pluto to be considered a sexual linkage or can a super sexual linkage involve any planet connected to Juno? So no Juno=no sexual relations at all? There is a few people I know that I have at least one Juno contact with(does that mean I will overwhelming desire for them all)?

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

I "FEEL" therefor I am

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