posted March 28, 2007 11:11 PM              

lauren

quote:

---

Right now you don't seem to be at that place, and that's probably why people are not replying to your last post.

---

i'm taking it slow, i have several years to contemplate this, this will happen, things just take time,

and also, you give a good arguement, you would make an excellent lawyer, i'm not sure if i've said that to you earlier, but you would.

I can't thank you more lauren.

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis

posted March 28, 2007 11:14 PM              

quote:

---

neptune,
I didn't reply because I didn't feel that you took any of those messages seriously. To be honest, I see you as quite the little genius. However, you also have a certain naivete still. "Common sense" or worldly wisdom is what you do not have yet. That is all everyone was trying to tell you in their own ways. Hopefully that will come with time.

---

posted March 29, 2007 06:43 AM            

Hi Shirty,

Thank you for your reply. In regards to what you said - to clarify.. I’m not particularly interested in the way sex is “viewed” (because as I said the media commercializes the crap out of sex these days) but rather what sex IS (I’m specifically and only referring to heterosexual sex).

Advances in technology amaze me daily. And these amazing advances have allowed many wonderful things, but they have not yet allowed for two men to create a third entity - a child or for two women to create a child, which I believe leaves heterosexual sex with a MUCH heavier load of responsibility (see contraception and abortion debates).. and since we are, as far as I understand, talking about heterosexual sex (unless Neptune’s switched sexuality since the last time I saw her post lol – which I might add, is perfectly fine if you did).. it’s a responsibility that I felt I should bring up.

A child can be created in the absence of heterosexual sex (though that is also debatable – see next paragraph). But heterosexual sex cannot be had in the absence of the possibility of creating a child. Again, as far as I understand we are talking about having heterosexual sex (which always has the ability and the possibility, by its very definition, to create life) - not abstaining from it

The reason I said it was debatable above is because it depends on your definition of sex.. Is male sperm entering a female body and fertilizing the female ovum, thus creating a new embryo.. heterosexual sex? Regardless of the lack of the actual physical act of a man putting the sperm there though his penis?
What is sex? I could definitely see that question turning into endless debate. As you said, it *is* personal.. and different people would define it differently. I can only offer my views, always remembering that others may feel differently. My post can only naturally be composed of my thoughts and my views, unless I would be quoting someone else or making a point out of saying that I'm outlining another person's views.. I believe it's implicit that there are many other views (that other posters such as yourself are more than welcome to express)..

But to correct what I said above (because it does need correcting).. I’ll say this. No person alive today was created in the absence of the masculine and feminine principles together.. by that I mean the male sperm and female ovum.. So rephrased: “I wouldn’t be here today if my dad's sperm had not fertilized my mum’s ovum.. person X wouldn’t be here today if their father’s sperm did not fertilize their mother’s ovum.. Person Y who was created by artificial insemination – would likewise not be here.. if their father’s sperm had not fertilized their mother’s ovum..

All nice and accurate now

posted March 29, 2007 08:42 AM            

quote:

---

Biological reproduction is the biological process by which new individual organisms are produced.
The known methods of reproduction are broadly grouped into two main types: sexual and asexual.

Sexual reproduction is a type of reproduction that results in increasing genetic diversity of the offspring. It is characterized by two processes: meiosis, involving the halving of the number of chromosomes; and fertilization, involving the fusion of two gametes and the restoration of the original number of chromosomes.

Asexual reproduction is a form of reproduction which does not involve meiosis, ploidy reduction, or fertilization.

---

Now, according to this.. as long as human reproduction continues to involve the fertilization of the female ovum by the male sperm, humans (like many other mammals) will continue to be Reproducing Sexually not Asexually.

This is completely regardless of whether the male inserts his penis into the vagina. As long as the sperm (male) fertilizes the ovum (female) this is *sexual reproduction*

quote:

---

Vaginal sexual intercourse, also called coitus, is the human form of copulation. While its primary purpose is the reproduction and continued survival of the human species, it is often performed exclusively for pleasure and/or as an expression of love and emotional intimacy.

---

I said something along these lines:

“An important purpose of heterosexual sexual intercourse is copulation.”

You are saying:

“We can have copulation without Sexual intercourse.”

These two sentences do not contradict each other.

Just because you can have A without B.. that does not mean that the function of B isn’t to create A.

And here, Neptune doesn’t want to have A (reproduction) without B (heterosexual sex). Neptune wants to have B (heterosexual sex) and one of the functions of B (heterosexual sex) is to do A (reproduction). Which is why I think she should be aware of that function, if she chooses to do B (heterosexual sex).

I do believe that all forms of reproduction are vital to the circle of life (both sexual/ asexual and the ‘sexual’ without actual ‘sexual intercourse’, like artificial insemination)..
But the mere fact that there exist other forms of reproduction that a) are not sexual or b) are sexual but they do not involve sexual intercourse; does not invalidate the fact that Heterosexual sex continues to be a form of reproduction. There can be many other forms of reproduction, but one of the functions of Heterosexual sex is reproduction.

And because it is a form of reproduction – ie it has the function to create life – it becomes implicitly involved in this birth/death/rebirth circle..

Basically, nothing I said in my first post was meaning to imply that reproduction cannot happen without heterosexual sex – but I should’ve articulated this better.

What I did mean was that - it is a principal function of heterosexual sex (what we are talking about) to reproduce.. and therefore if someone chooses to engage in heterosexual sex, it would be important(IMO) to take all of its functions into account.. not only the love/pleasure function of it.. but also the crucial role (function) in perpetuating life.

The second point was..

I again said something along these lines:

“An important purpose of heterosexual intercourse is copulation.”

You are saying something like:

"There are other forms of intercourse which are not heterosexual"

Again, these two sentences do not contradict each other. Just because there are 2 types of B.. say B1 and B2.. and B1 has the function to procreate (A), whereas B2 does not have this function.. it doesn't invalidate the fact that B1 continues to have this *very important* function.

posted March 29, 2007 04:10 PM              

quote:

---

*my apologies for going off topic sowwwy*

---

posted March 29, 2007 05:01 PM              

You made some really good points! Thank you for elaborating.

I believe that the idea of 'sex' has evolved, and that's the point I was trying to make in relation to someone's response to neptune's question. I don't think there's anything unnatural about the nature of her question, nor is it wrong for her to be having these thoughts.

I definitely agree with your points, however. I don't think you can debate the fact that it takes sperm and an ovum to create human life.

Again, thanks for clarifying! This discussion has certainly deviated from the original question, hehe! No harm in a healthy debate!

posted April 07, 2007 07:42 PM            

quote:

---

Thank you Dulce...someone had to say it.

---

Hey, what can I say? Its that mars in the 3rd!

quote:

---

oh, goodness, why are you running with this, who said i would be doing this at 16, or maybe i should have clarified, sorry excuse my mistake. i'm thinking this over, because it is a serious decision and if i'm going to be doing something like this for the rest of my life or then so, i have to consider thinking about it early on, i'm trying to be mature about this process, and not rush it, like i see some of you think i'm doing, or maybe i should have just clarified, or maybe someone should have waited for me to clarify.

---

Oops! Then I apologize for misunderstanding you. I don't know, for some reason red sirens immedialtely went off.

I responded the way that I did because I thought that you wanted to pursue this right now and that you were being naive about this (BTW, I still think that you are). And I also didn't think you were actually serious about this, which is probably why I forgot about this thread in the first place.

And for those of you who are suggesting that minors should be able to work as escorts,strippers,prostitutes,etc: I really hope none of you ever have children someday unless you want them to end up dead in an alley. (you know who you are)

Neptune, I think the first two posters had some good points though. Do what you want but you should really think about this first. Most people in that industry are either damaged to begin with or end up that way somewhere down the road.

posted April 07, 2007 08:43 PM              

I understand, since i'm 16 "right now" that you feel you have the right to tell me i'm naive about this, but I want to let you know that logically, if someone wanted to pursue something in the future, the only wise thing to do would be to think it through before hand and do your homework on it. And thats all i'm doing. Why do you insist on trampling all over me when i'm making wise beforehand decisions, i just don't understand?

It would be 'naive' to just jump right into it in my 20's and not know a thing or have heard a thing. C'mon, think.

it takes everyone to make this world go round, not just doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and teachers.

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis

posted April 07, 2007 11:53 PM            

quote:

---

I understand, since i'm 16 "right now" that you feel you have the right to tell me i'm naive about this, but I want to let you know that logically, if someone wanted to pursue something in the future, the only wise thing to do would be to think it through before hand and do your homework on it. And thats all i'm doing. Why do you insist on trampling all over me when i'm making wise beforehand decisions, i just don't understand?

---

No,no,no,no,no. Now you are misundertanding me. I said that I responded to your post in the manner that I did the first time because I thought that this was something you wanted to pursue in the present...as a minor.*edit* I wasn't thinking that you were talking of the future (you mentioned making extra cash so I assumed you meant part-time job...a teenage/young adult thing). And I didn't even think that this was hypothetical, because if it was then why word it the way you did?

posted April 08, 2007 05:01 AM              

... and this is not really in response to anyone in particular,... just a bit of change in vantage point, I guess. Haven't been here in a bit....

posted April 08, 2007 12:47 PM              

quote:

---

Second, I am not trampling all over you. Yes, I do think you are being naive about this because I think you are only seeing one side of this lifestyle (the glamorous side that is...with all the money involved) and not the other side which is what the others had mentioned before. What everyone wants you to see is the whole picture (which is what sags do best anyways, I thought).

---

thank you dulce, for clarifying yourself, but indeed I am very involved with contemplating the WHOLE of the situtation. I do do that best, but my virgo rising is caught in the details, i take things slowly, thats why i'm contemplating it early on. But what I think i never mentioned is that I look at something from the outside in, i start with the shallow, surface part of it, and then go deeper, and thats why I never mentioned the WHOLE.

I just never got a chance to mention it because everyone just started replying the way they did. But i understand it was based off of the information I gave, so I do know. And thanks for putting so much thought into me, appreciate it.

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis

posted April 08, 2007 07:42 PM              

From Wikipedia:

After three months of using Norplant, women will need to schedule a follow-up appointment to monitor blood pressure and discuss any concerns. Side effects may include irregular menstrual periods for the first approximately three months, including periods lasting longer than normal, bleeding or spotting between periods, heavy bleeding, or going with no period for the mentioned period of time. Common side effects include weight gain, nervousness, anxiety, nausea, vomiting, mastalgia, dizziness, dermatitis/rash, hirsutism, scalp-hair loss, headache, depression, and acne. Sometimes, pain, itching or infection at the site of the implant will occur. Ovarian cysts may also occur, but usually do not require treatment, although they can cause pain even if benign.

There's potential risks for all contraceptives.

If you are working as a prostitute, your main concern will not be getting pregnant; it will be getting HIV, STDs like chlamydia which can lead to infertility, HPV which can lead to cervical cancer, herpes which cannot be cured, etc.

posted April 09, 2007 04:59 PM              

quote:

---

You'll also have to worry about getting arrested, getting beat up, and getting raped

---

i thought that escorts agencies were legal? i thought they were exempt from the law, unless one of my clients has a wife (which in most cases it is) that tries to get me introuble with the law.

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis

posted April 09, 2007 05:22 PM            

Anyhow, here's the problem she ran into...

People tend to have a negative view of escorts - to the point where they see no difference between a street walker and one who works out of a bath house, massage parlor or escort service. Even when it's legal, you'll be hard pressed to find people who approve of it.

Who cares what other people think though, right?

Until you go for a job interview and sitting across the table from you is a former client...

You're in a business meeting and sitting across the table from you is a former client...

You're at a bar and see people pointing and sniggering - it's a former client and his group of friends (who now approach you and think that because you were an escort you're a $lut and they may as well shoot for a freebie...)

You've met Mr. Right. He takes you home for dinner to meet his folks. His father is a former client...

You would think that because they had paid her for sex that they'd be the last ones to judge her. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work that way.

These things continued to happen to her for years after she graduated from college and quit being an escort. In the end she moved to Australia where she wasn't likely to keep running into former clients.

posted April 09, 2007 07:24 PM              

quote:

---

Are you in the US? I didn't notice any country on your profile. It's illegal to have sex for money in the US...other countries have different laws.

---

yes I am in the US, and i still don't understand why something thats in the phone book be considered illegal. But thats originally what I thought, but i didn't know that. Because through my research I thought only street prostitutes were illegal, because they didn't belong to an agency. but, i don't know.

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis

posted April 09, 2007 07:34 PM            

She didn't get jobs because the people interviewing her viewed her as a $lut (not to mention if she got the job, she might come out and tell his coworkers he pays for sex).

She lost her boyfriend when he discovered she had been a prostitute (his father decided that it was more important to admit his infidelity than let his son be involved with/marry a "wh@re")...

At one job she had, a coworker had been a client. Word got around she was a "wh@re ". People seem to be far more scandalized by the idea that she was a supposed wh@re, than at the idea that the guy that "outed" her had paid for sex.

posted April 10, 2007 03:30 PM              

quote:

---

i understand your reasoning for thinking being a asst buyer and being an escort will compliment

---

------------------
Virgo Rising 8'57, Sagittarius Sun/4thH 3'26, Pisces Moon/6thH 8'22

"Our passions are not too strong, they are too weak. We are far too easily pleased." - C.S. Lewis