posted July 29, 2007 11:03 AM              

quote:

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or it's excusable for Pisces to be hypocritical

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off topic, but U2's "Sometime You Can't Make It On Your Own" makes me think of aries...& taurus actually...and capricorn, and scorpio and leo - well I guess all those macho signs
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cf0I5c1gmO4

posted July 30, 2007 01:54 AM            

Diandra - In what particular way is this person selfish?

There are so many different ways to be selfish so maybe the different ways come from different astrological aspects. But all types of selfishness, as 8th Moon mentioned, require an awareness of the conflict between your needs and someone else's, and you consistently side with your needs even though you know that choice is hurting someone else. I think people are often willing to sacrifice someone else's needs when it's an issue that is fundamental to their own emotional security. From their perspective, they really *need* this; you don't need whatever it is as badly as they do.

My brother has a Taurus Moon and I've noticed that for him to feel emotionally content he needs to feel that he has enough stuff, that his material needs have been met. Growing up, my family didn't have much money, so if he ever bought any food, he'd write his name on it or hide it. And what would make this act selfish is he knew that we would like him to share, and he would consciously choose not to share. But his selfishness disappears once he's reached the point where he feels his needs have been met. Once he has enough things to make him happy, he's very generous with anything extra. Now that he's grown up and is raking in the dough, he's an extremely generous gift-giver. Notice how his generosity is focused on what he himself emotionally values. "Things make me happy so they must make other people happy too!"

I'm selfish with my own independence. I can't stand to feel like I've given too much of my ability to choose over to another person (or to a career that severely limits self-expression). I need more alone time than the average person, and I've often chosen my own solitude over socializing with friends/loved ones, and I made that choice knowing that it hurt them, so that was selfish of me. I'm not selfish when I'm with other people. I innately feel responsible to make any social interaction pleasurable for everyone involved. But that feeling of responsibility is also part of the reason why I need to get away and be by myself. Maybe what causes this is my Moon in the 10th house tightly squaring Uranus in the 1st house, both in fixed signs (Leo Moon, Scorpio Uranus). Like my brother, this selfishness can also be a generosity: I'm very respectful of other people's individuality and space.

I'm thinking of so many examples right now of people I know and their specific way of being selfish and the possible astrological causes, but I think those 2 examples are probably more than enough. What I'm trying to show is that the more someone needs something to feel emotionally secure, the more they'd be willing to sacrifice someone else's needs to satisfy their own. I think we're all selfish in certain ways, and will find different types of selfishness in other people more or less hurtful depending on our own personalities.

I think an astrology chart could show an area where someone is egocentric and needy. But it can't show selfishness since selfishness is a choice. Using 8th Moon's example, the chart is the infant, and we are the adult. The stronger the need and the greater the egocentrism illustrated in the chart, the more likely the person is to be seflish, but it's not set in stone. It's the choice to act selfishly that makes a person morally blameworthy. Self-absorbed people who aren't aware of the pain they cause are more irritating and boring than bad.

posted July 30, 2007 08:52 AM              

yup i was talking about ones needs are putten up of in this cae, my owns...but weve already talked things right over and it apperas that was a matter of lack of communication and not a selfish act per say.

i once again come to the conclusion that im very insecure and that im not fully aware of ther other´s perspectiven and as i dont talk right over of m own frustration and disapointment on some action/words, the other doenst has the awareness of have acting wrong to me. Then, i dont talk,he tries to takl and i dont cause im upset and thats a cycle that leads knonwhere and only to confusion and misunderstandings.

Also, my Neptunian side, of seeing all as it arent ( dreamy and perfect) also maked me a little aside of the reality and then tryin to cope with it, tryin to make everythin well and perfect

Yup,its required that awareness of conflicts between each others emotional needs you´ve talked about - and we are all selfisg in some way in a certain time thats for sure!

It happen that in this particular argument, i became to be the selfish one, on not thinking of his own reality and his probable hidden fears that made him act in a certain way.

With all this i realised that the person i considered selfish is much more generous than me and willing to change a thing thats deeper than anything else, and so,more harder and painful to change,but he´s willing to : because of me and his love for me...

posted July 30, 2007 07:56 PM              

Of course do not take that literally people!!
The point i was making relates to what i was saying underneath.
I think what reminided me of the infancy fact was reading the aries-cancer chapter the other night where i read this:

Quote:linda goodman,page 99 love signs.
"With Aries, everything is different and understandable when they do it-also justifiable and permissionable, aswell as excusable.(Remember, Aries is the adorable but totally self-centered symbolic infant of the zodiac)"
I laughed when i read that but looking hard at the fellow ariens i know there is such a deeply rooted sense of innocence- like their soul has not learnt many lessons.

Just one more paragraph quote for interest from LG on page 22.
"Like a human infant totally self-absorbed, the Aries soul discovers with delight his or her own toes and fingers-its own physical beingness. To satisfy all needs, only a loud cry is necessary, heard and answered instantly by elders. The real infant doubts or fears nothing or no one simply because it has never experienced denial. Likewise, the Aries "Infant" soul has a natural trust and a touching faith in the unseen force of goodness which will miraculously grant all its wishes.
On the Earth plane this beneficent force represented by the parents, in a mystical sense, by our co-Creators. And so they look tenderly upon the "newborn" Aries soul, as parents look tenderly upon their infant, lovingly protecting it from its own naivete, wisely dening some of the demands made through the excited awareness that the soul IS-he has been born, and is HERE.
The Aries soul senses: "I AM" or "I exist". ANd like the symbolic infant, Aries men and women are oblivious to the possibilities of accident, pain or cruelty on life's path. He or she learns of these negative experiences inly from those advanced beyond, who have agthered harshness, suspicion and the self-survival instinct from the growing process."

posted July 31, 2007 02:55 AM              

quote:

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"With Aries, everything is different and understandable when they do it-also justifiable and permissionable, aswell as excusable.(Remember, Aries is the adorable but totally self-centered symbolic infant of the zodiac)"
I laughed when i read that but looking hard at the fellow ariens i know there is such a deeply rooted sense of innocence- like their soul has not learnt many lessons.

"Like a human infant totally self-absorbed, the Aries soul discovers with delight his or her own toes and fingers-its own physical beingness. To satisfy all needs, only a loud cry is necessary, heard and answered instantly by elders. The real infant doubts or fears nothing or no one simply because it has never experienced denial. Likewise, the Aries "Infant" soul has a natural trust and a touching faith in the unseen force of goodness which will miraculously grant all its wishes.
On the Earth plane this beneficent force represented by the parents, in a mystical sense, by our co-Creators. And so they look tenderly upon the "newborn" Aries soul, as parents look tenderly upon their infant, lovingly protecting it from its own naivete, wisely dening some of the demands made through the excited awareness that the soul IS-he has been born, and is HERE.
The Aries soul senses: "I AM" or "I exist". ANd like the symbolic infant, Aries men and women are oblivious to the possibilities of accident, pain or cruelty on life's path. He or she learns of these negative experiences inly from those advanced beyond, who have agthered harshness, suspicion and the self-survival instinct from the growing process."

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I'm sorry, but I'm not going to treat a 30 or 40 year old aries like a child. I don't care what astrologers say, every adult is accountable for thier actions. I think Linda should not have been so biased regarding her sign, just read the aries man chapter in Sun Signs, it's ridiculous and did not help me AT ALL with my aries boy. Sure she has perceptive abilities, which I admire. She “gets” a lot of signs, and understands them well. She even understood pisces which is not possible?...lord knows how she did that! But most of the things in the aries chapter does not address most aries issues, like their moon is very important and can drastically influence the Sun. How they can be shy and insecure, even humble. All things my boy was. He had depth and humility, he was smart and goofy. He had deep compassion and was very insightful. Yes he acted like a kid, but it was cute not malicious ie aggressive. The only aggressive thing about him was sport, he was very into it, but was never a bad sport – something you assume goes hand in hand with aries.

He was certainly NOT a mindless caveman or brute. She skims over flaws and paints a picture that makes aries seem indestructible – see aries-leo chapter where it gets slightly disturbing…however I think she wrote that when she was having issues with her Leo. To me it seems she's on the defensive about her sign, it’s become her identity and she needs to protect it. I know that tactic too well, I have strong aries in my chart…and lost friends from it. Sure there are arians who fit her description to a T, but you’ll also find them to be socially inept. No one in school plays with the kid who always wants to come first. And I think that’s exactly what happened to her. Although gooberz is sketchy, you can still tell she had a tough life growing up, and had difficulty with other kids and being girly. I imagine she was a loner, and kids can be so cruel which probably caused her to build a super high security wall around her.

“He or she learns of these negative experiences inly from those advanced beyond, who have agthered harshness, suspicion and the self-survival instinct from the growing process”

I imagine that’s referring to her childhood experiences, where she was naive and innocent, and other children where insensitive. She was never able to trust people and was on the defensive…and boy was she on the defensive! Have you read Gooberz! Once in a while she breaks down, and so does her wall…and it’s oddly very sweet and beautiful. The angry woman is gone, and what’s left is someone that’s very human, and pure and vulnerable. I think it’s far more brave to allow yourself to be vulnerable than to hide behind a wall…which is my favourite aries quality. That lack of fear of being hurt…but I’ve seen many arians lose this growing up from being burnt too often, which is sad. It’s such a noble quality that shows integrity. It also keeps an arian looking young, as they age horribly if they lose that inner child. Compare happy arians with bitter ones, and tell me who looks younger - especially old folk.
You're an aries right? How odd, I've only seen other signs defend aries actions.
Wow this is a long post gotta take a break

posted July 31, 2007 07:14 AM              

Ive never read Gooberz but i would love too.
I actually liked her aries male description..i think she does a good job in describing the sterotypical of each sun sign.
She gives you good ideas too work on so you can make your own interpretation.

I have a lot of cancer in me but i don't really fit the cancer female chapter in her book like your son doesn't fit the aries chapter. It all depends on how you use the energies that are 'given to you'. I think she did a good job summarizing the signs though.

posted July 31, 2007 09:19 AM              

"I have a lot of cancer in me but i don't really fit the cancer female chapter in her book like your son doesn't fit the aries chapter. It all depends on how you use the energies that are 'given to you'. I think she did a good job summarizing the signs though."

posted July 31, 2007 10:00 AM              

Thats true Jane

posted July 31, 2007 07:46 PM              

--------------------------------------------
anyway the chapter doesn't really say much about them, apart from them needing a perfect stepford wife/girlfriend type...so very unfeminist of her...she of all people should know no woman is perfect but w/e
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It was not her personal attitude that to say that 'all woman are perfect'.Oh she definatly knows no woman is perfect, she was making a mockery of it! She was trying to show us how a typical Aries male might see things though.

Acoustic-tell us then don't tease us like that lol

posted July 31, 2007 08:09 PM              

I've seen just as many people give because it's the "right" thing to do instead of feeling giving in their hearts, and that has negative effects also.

I used to judge it very harshly, but I realized that they are reflecting aspects of me that I am not admitting to myself. I used to think being selfish was bad and unspiritual, but it's just a symptom of a human condition on this planet.

posted July 31, 2007 09:55 PM            

First of all, I should point out that some of her stuff is based on traditional stereotypes, and other based on her own interaction with the signs in question. What I'm going to try to talk about is something I learned while reading Sydney Omarr's book Astrological Revelations About You.

The descriptions in Sun Sign books are often based on putting the Sun sign in the 1st house, and reading the attributes of the sign based on what signs fill the other houses when you do that.

Secret Dreams and Fears: (12th house)

Linda Goodman has a passage in the chapter about my sign, Capricorn, that says this:

...He'd love to thrill the crowd on a flying trapeze...

"Turn a steady, dependable Capricorn male inside out, and you'll find a merry, gentle dreamer who longs for the free wind to blow through his hair and finds the sweet fragrance of compliments intoxicating-who hungers for excitement and thirsts for adventure.

...Chances are he'll never let all those gauzy dreams of careless rapture escape and run around loose. Just so you know they're inside him. That's enough. Don't go expecting your Capricorn to dash barefoot through the buttercups.

Sounds like a Capricorn secretly dreams of being a care-free, fun-lovin' Sagittarius. I think she wrote more to this extent somewhere, but I can't find it.

Anyway, astrologically, if you're doing Sun sign interpretations, you put the Sun sign in the first house, like I said. If you do that with Capricorn, where does Sagittarius fall? In the 12th house, the house of hidden fears and dreams. A Capricorn secretly dreams of Sagittarian smiles and laughter, and also secretly fears he may never experience that in life. Speaking of Sagittarian fears, she also wrote this of Capricorns:

Public scenes and raw, naked, uncontrolled passions embarrass them.

Work Life: (6th and 10th)

The 6th house represents the working conditions, and the 10th your career to some degree. For Capricorn Sun sign the 6th house is ruled by Gemini, and the 10th Libra.

He's not a flashy climber. In his own mild, inconspicuous way, the goat is coldly determined to get where he's going.

"Coldly" connotes a certain emotional detachment for most folks, which correlates to the property of Air signs.

They have no patience with methods that aren't sound or procedures that lack common sense, and they'll rearrange office systems to make sure the organization runs with sensible efficiency.

Earth mixed with Gemini = sensible, logical efficiency

Not all Capricoms are bankers, teachers and bookkeepers. They also make excellent researchers, extremely capable dentists, brilliant engineers and architects, and they're clever at merchandising, manufacturing and politics. Many goats are jewelers, ministers, hotel managers, funeral directors, art dealers or anthropologists, but whatever the occupation, they'll be serious about it.

Don't forget that there's a creative side to Satum people. Your Capricorn employee may have a hobby that could surprise you. He could be a Sunday artist, and a very good one, too. He could be a weekend musician, dabble in sculpture, sell real estate, apply his green thumb to a garden, sing in a choir or belong to a drama class. Culture is close to his heart.

People associate Libra with the law, politics, art, music, beauty, culture, etc. Libra rules Capricorn Sun sign's 10th house.

Home Life: (4th house)

He thinks you should know how he feels about you since be supports you, and pays you the tribute of allowing you to bear his children, sweep his floors and polish his trophies. To Capricorn, mushy, verbal declarations are gilding the romantic lily. He may ask, "What do you want, Richard Burton?" That's your cue to say "yes" loudly. It should startle him a little. He won't turn into Richard Burton, but he may be shocked into realizing that a gently murmured "sweetheart" at appropriate times won't harm his masculinity.

Sound a little Aries-ish? Aries rules Capricorn Sun's 4th house.

Children: (5th house)

As a father, he'll be a Father-the literal personification of the word. He'll always be at the head of the table, and that goes for picnics, too. Even if he's the one sitting on the poison ivy, near the ant hill, around the paper cloth spread under the trees-the spot where the Capricorn daddy sits is the head of the table. He'll demand respect and obedience, and he'll insist on routine and discipline. But he'll repay it with honest devotion, even self sacrifice, probably approve of big, happy birthday parties and a very merry Christmas. Capricorn fathers are highly unlikely to spare the rod and spoil the child.

Sound a bit like a Taurus? Do you get visions of Taurus Al Pacino in the Godfather? Taurus rules Capricorn sun's 5th house.
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Hopefully that's enough to drive the point home regarding Sun signs, and how their interpretations are extrapolated.

posted August 01, 2007 02:16 AM            

AG - Thanks for explaining that!
Since the Asc actually determines our own houses, then I think the less compatible our Asc is with our Sun sign, the more likely we are not to feel like the description of our Sun sign by Linda and other people who use that system matches us. Because if my "Asc Chart" gives me a Taurus DC, but my "Sun Chart" gives me a Gemini DC, the Sun Chart description for what I want in a relationship will be very different from the Asc Chart description. I wonder if people who have compatible Suns and Asc's find their Sun sign descriptions generally more accurate than those with incompatible Suns and Asc's.
I guess when reading these cookie cutter descriptions of our Sun sign, we should aways read the Sun sign for our Asc too to get a more complete picture of our personality.

posted August 01, 2007 03:40 AM              

(quote)I have Neptune conjunct Sun so I also feel Pisces-ish in a lot of ways, even though I don't have any planets in that sign. (I do have my S.Node there conjunct Eros though.)(/quote)

posted August 01, 2007 03:49 AM              

quote:

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dag namit!

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posted August 01, 2007 04:08 AM            

quote:

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what are you other planets/signs jane?

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posted August 01, 2007 04:49 AM              

Cool, nearly all my inner planets probably fall in your 8th or 9th. Do any of my planets make close aspects to yours by degree? sag/leo/scorpio mix is a very loyal and passionate mix of planets you have there.