posted October 27, 2007 01:58 AM              

I've never been dependent on relationships which is why I never seek them out but the thought of not finding a life mate, companion is pretty depressing. I want the same dream as everyone else, someone to fall in love with and grow old with.

posted October 27, 2007 02:34 AM            

Just read your Pluto thread...I have Pluto on my Asc too. Then I saw this one, lol. I have Chiron conjunct my Descendant, 7H Pisces. It is tightly opposite natal Pluto too. I do much better helping others than myself, it's true but I never thought of it as keeping me from finding true (lasting) happiness, I always kinda blamed that on my Venus/Uranus opposition (the tightest aspect in my entire chart!)

I've come to a realization that the majority of my life is meant to be focused on continual transformation/evolution of mySELF. All my relationships have provided tremendous learning experiences, and much happiness (though not lasting) along with much pain (thankfully not lasting either)-the wounding/healing dynamic of my PiscesChiron.

My sense is the more energy used to aid/assist others, the proper use of Pluto rising, the more good karma I am earning in my cosmic bank account. I don't know how exactly how I will reap my good karma, but I've always felt "safe" somehow - my trust in the Universe is immense. We that have Pluto rising know perhaps better than most that NOTHING on this plane is permanent, forever. Everything is evolving at all times. I too feel the desire to "settle down" once again - I know the Universe will provide. Hopefully all the knowledge I've acquired throughout my life up until now will be put to good use for the next great love of my life.

I know it might sound corny but I've always taken great comfort in the saying, "Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." Some only love one person in life, I have loved several each one unique and significant. Maybe my 'final' love is simply waiting until my soul is truly ready to engage in the union at the best possible moment so it will last like none of the others could. Maybe the same is true for you?

If that's not Venus in Pisces, I don't know what is! LOL

posted October 27, 2007 02:58 AM              

*****
...That's funny, I feel that way too now that I'm older and I understand things better.

The thing is I can look back on my past relationships and see where I've helped them but I don't feel like I've come away from those relationships having learned anything. I feel like I'm helping others while putting myself through painful experiences that pull me further back. It's quite depressing as I feel like that's my role in life is to help others at my expense. I know that sounds selfish, as helping others is always a positive thing but I feel like I come out in the end suffering a little bit more for it.

We have a lot in common I see, our Plutos, Chiron and Seventh House! :-)

posted October 27, 2007 11:30 AM            

Maybe with Chiron in the 7th, you can find a way to help other couples heal their relationships...thereby channeling that energy in a more objective/productive way.

This might "free up" that energy so that your loves can move in!

Just a thought...

posted October 27, 2007 12:45 PM            

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Chiron in the 7th House:
Our woundedness is most likely to be played out in the arena of relationships, social interactions and social justice (or injustice). See also Chiron in Libra, Chapter 7.
Example 1. Chiron in Leo in the 7th house might manifest as the wound of feeling unable to express ourselves – not free to explore and develop our creativity and individual gifts – due to a stifling relationship that demands most of our attention and time.
Example 2 – Chiron in Pisces in the 7th house might be the wound of feeling used and abused, victimized and betrayed, by those with whom we have had relationships. Alternately, it might be that the wound of feeling a deep need for contact and for merging into oneness causes us to give ourselves away totally in relationships, until we have little left for ourselves.

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From Barbara Hand Clow, Jungian psychologist and astrologer, “Chiron – Transforming Bridge Between the Inner and Outer Planets” ~

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Chiron in the 7th House –

Chiron’s presence in the seventh house signifies a dynamic of knowing the self through significant relationships on the personal level, and strongly affecting other people on a mass scale. This position is the essence of charisma: these individuals have enormous potential to express the collective unconsciousness of their times, and they have an uncanny ability to mirror the self-image of other people. This is a voracious placement; the presence of Chiron encourages the native to crave the adoration and adulation of others, and more than any other position of Chiron, identification of this energy is a revelation to the native. They need to understand how they are affecting people around themselves, or the intensifying adulation with attach to the personal ego and destroy them. Janis Joplin, Bob Dylan, Fidel Castro, and Richard Nixon have Chiron in the seventh house, and all are excellent examples of the power or confusion inherent in this placement. Opposite the house of the self, the first house, is the place of maximum distortion about who we are, the seventh house. Who we are will always be distorted in the perceptions of the self by others until we master polarity. The truth is, each end of the polarity is the same: I am you and you are me. This is the essential teaching that natives with Chiron in the seventh must master.

Mastery of the other side, true comprehension of polarities, only comes with deep wisdom about life. Natives with Chiron in the seventh have a crisis about knowing who they are in relation to the other side. Relationships are the big teacher for all of us, and that is why we work so hard at them. For those with Chiron in the seventh, the hardest issue, relationship, must be learned in the hardest way, with a Chiron crisis about who we are in this place, Earth. The only way the learning can occur is in a relationship, so the astrologer must gather more information on significant relationships than usual. Chiron in the seventh is also very involved with mass consciousness, and often some really valuable work is going on in that area. The degree to which the client is conscious of this work is critically important, for their concrete awareness of the effect they have on others will release their inner gift. This is an essential teaching about this position because the difficulties over interpersonal relationships are usually so potent and distracting that this individual is more blinded to the mirror source of knowledge than most of us. They literally cannot see the forest for the trees, so they need powerful and sympathetic help with the difficulties they are having interpersonally. They need encouragement to become more conscious of the potent effect they have on others so they can know that the response from others to them is their teacher. And they need to become more conscious about the gift that the culture sees within them.

As for my clients, I studied ten examples of Chiron in the seventh very carefully, because this is such a difficult position to explicate. All ten of them have absolutely critical relationship dilemmas. This is where the most intense learning is going on, and extra respect for it must be offered by the astrologer. Often clients are wasting a lot of time and energy mucking around in time-consuming and futile relationships, and it is our job to help them become conscious of this. It is an entirely different story with Chiron in the seventh. Here is where I have really learned from my clients and have recently had some success with this difficult dynamic. One is a great weaver who has had a succession of Chirotic relationship that have taken much of her energy. I knew her years before I started working with Chiron. Imagine how different her chart is without Chiron in the seventh quincunx Venus/Uranus! Once we had Chiron, I began to understand that she was a sacred weaver, birthing Chirotic symbols into the culture, and I initiated her into becoming a sacred weaver by aligning her sense of self with her higher purpose – weaving symbols for transformation. Her powerful symbolic gifts are astonishing; she is guiding people, and her relationship stress has calmed down considerably. Another is my daughter, and I have been gently teaching her the potent effect she has on others so that she can center herself better. She will probably become an actress because of this position and because of other dynamics in her chart.

Another is a significant New Age publisher who has launched a project that focuses on a significant relationship which I cannot describe for reasons of privacy. The only way I could help him was to help ease him out of tortuous relationship stress and encourage him to see how he is benefiting the culture with his publishing work. Another chart belongs to the priest who left the priesthood when he realized he had to find himself through a relationship.

The key to Chiron in the seventh house is to carefully analyze relationships, identify what the inherent teachings are, and then help free the native from the astral grip while also identifying the palpable gifts to the culture which are occuring. In the old mastery schools, awareness only came with concrete identification of actual magical acts such as moving stones with the third eye or levitating. This principle is very helpful for work on Chiron in the seventh house. These natives do not see the power of what they are doing; they are not conscious of the effect they have on other people. If made conscious, they get control over their lives and they are tremendously empowered to give their gift. They often feel bad about the long line of complex and seemingly disastrous emotional encounters. Help them to see the teaching in each experience, advise them that they need more experience here than most people, and convince them that their moral axiom is to become conscious of the effect they are having on others. Doubling of this position, that is, Chiron in Libra itself, or Chiron in its rulership, Virgo, creates such massive confusion that long-term counseling can be a virtual necessity.

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posted October 27, 2007 01:45 PM              

I'm trying to make sense of it in my life which may take a while. I'm retiring my Chiron for now and if the gods strike me down for turning my back on the call of duty then so be it!

THis current relationship I'm in, all of his planets but two parallel each other in his natal chart which I've read can't be too good and that's not counting the asteroids and contra parallels if I counted those all his planets and asteroids hit each other! He's got debilitated moon issues and He makes me feel bad about myself and I don't want to heal him at my expense anymore although I know he needs it.

posted October 27, 2007 02:11 PM            

With your natal Mercury retro, you should be having an easier time of this current Merc rx

I don't feel that Chiron in the 7th is about "healing him at my expense" -- not at all. In fact, that's what both Clow and Lass (above in his Example 2) counsel against -- giving away so much of yourself that you can’t sustain your OWN being. But letting the pendulum swing to the opposite side, ie giving away NONE of yourself (or "turning your back on the call of duty", as you put it ), is not the answer either. Finding the *balance* (the house ruled by Libra) seems to be the key. But the best way to learn about oneself is in relationships (of all kinds) with other people. The 7th House is what I call the “Not-Me” – the qualities we project onto others because we cannot yet recognize (or own) them consciously in our own lives, so we let others act them out for us. Learning enough about ourselves to NOT project character-qualities off onto others is a challenge of the 7th house and the sign(s) and planet(s) within, and their aspects…..

I see Chiron as both the Wound, and the Key to Healing. Check out that Martin Lass book, it’s quite empowering The choice you are presented with by this placement is whether you want to live with all your buried/repressed/unresolved Wounds and avoid any possibility of more pain, or take steps to fully heal those wounds and find the joy that you deserve. And for Chiron-7th’ers, that means associations with other people, especially intimate associations. Where is your Mars (sign/house)?? Just curious what you are attracted to – learning about why you are attracted to energies that may be harmful for you (such as your current relationship) is key to progressing to relationships that feed your spirit, instead of draining it. I also do not think that the planets (or your own Higher Self or whatever you wish to call the eternal part of you) will allow you to duck your “duty” forever

I found it intriguing when Clow said that the Chiron-7th’ers have a more difficult time allowing others to be their mirror, in other words, learning to understand yourself and the effect of your words and actions by careful observation of others’ reactions to you…..

posted October 27, 2007 02:17 PM            

When faced with “Gloom and Doom” astro interps, I just remember that mathematical lines drawn between orbiting balls of gas and rock in the sky are not going to Make Me Do or Be Anything!!

posted October 27, 2007 02:32 PM              

Oh darnit, I knew I would get sucked back in.

Azalek, my mars is in my 11H in Leo. Cancer rules this house which makes sense for me but I'm certainly not attracted to male Leo qualities, I don't think I could stand all that drama :-P.

Thank you so much for all your input, I'm reading everything you're posting for me and I appreciate your "expertise" in these areas as obviously mine are lacking.

posted October 27, 2007 02:56 PM            

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I've stopped fighting it as I've found its hopelessly in my nature so I apologize in advance for being so annoying :-P.

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