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Author Topic:   Sun square Moon
Kal_El
Knowflake

Posts: 26
From: Rainy City
Registered: Nov 2009

posted February 04, 2008 09:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kal_El     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is it good or bad aspect?

Edit: It posted twice. once with my signature and once without it... interesting...?
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Scio me nihil scire
tanslation- I know that I know Nothing

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teaologist
unregistered
posted February 05, 2008 12:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Kal El,

Thanks for bringing this up. Seems like no one really talks about Sun/Moon aspects...

I have the square too. Can't say it's bad really. Annoying, if you want. Seems to give a fragmented feeling, but it has its perks, which is inner drive.

It's all in how you deal with it. You might want to say that the soft aspects are 'good' and the hard aspects are 'bad'. For example, the Sun/Moon trine lends emotional stability... however it also apparently has a reputation for 'making' a person complacent with him/herself. Again, depends on how you look at it...

From Sue Tompkins' 'Aspects in Astrology':

quote:
SUN-MOON
Wants/needs. Future/past. Mother/father. Character/personality. Conscious/unconscious.

As discussed elsewhere, the Sun and Moon are especially significant in the horoscope, and in view of their importance, this combination has been dealt with differently to the other planetary combinations in the book in that some attempt has been made to differentiate between the conjunction, the hard, and the soft aspects.


quote:
The Square
The square shows many of the same issues as the opposition, though I think it is often more restless. The individual usually has to work very hard to achieve real emotional security in life and a real sense of who they are. Often there is some feeling of conflict between the individual's wish to adapt to their environment and those within it and their desire to go out for what they want in a creative way. It could be said that with all hard aspects between the Sun and Moon there is a split between what the individual wants (Sun) and what they need (Moon) and the goal is in some way to integrate these two factors. When the individual is able to define their goals there often seems as if there is some practical obstacle that gets in the way of their being able to bring them to fruition. Sometimes it is their own habitual behavior patterns that get in the way, as in the case of a man I know who decided he wanted to be a greengrocer but eventually gave up because he couldn't get up in the morning to go to market to buy his stock. All his life he had got up late, and he didn't, or couldn't, allow himself to break the habit of doing so. Sometimes the family or the domestic situation blocks the path of the person trying to get ahead and break free of the shackles of the past, as in the case where the young person is just off to college and someone at home falls ill and demands to be taken care of. Basically, the person's ability to be clear about and to express what they want is challenged at each step of the way with these contacts, but the family and the pull of the past will only interfere with the future if we allow it to.

Those with the square often have a very real need to achieve something in life, something they and their family can be proud of. Often as children those with the square didn't feel that their parents were proud of their accomplishments and this feeling of lack can be a spur towards them pushing themselves forward in life, or the reason for them not being able to do so. Eventually the Sun-Moon square learns that if is immaterial whether their parents were actually proud of them or not; it is more the case that they came into the world programmed to pick up these cues, programmed to feel that they should be someone different to who they were.

The early family life is more likely to have been difficult with the square aspect than with the opposition, with the parental figures not so much seeming to be opposites, but people who are continually in conflict and disposed to getting in each other's way. Frequently the child feels in the way, too, of one or both of the parents. Sometimes the child feels that they are the cause of the conflict in the home and can then become shy of spontaneous self-expression, believing that whatever they say will make matters worse, thought usually when things are this oppressive, Saturn is also involved. Messy family break-ups are common with the square aspects; with one parent, by accident or design, opting out of the parenthood altogether, or, as with the opposition, the child being caught in the middle of the difficulties cause by the logistics of having a relationship with both parents. Unlike the opposition, however, the child often does not consciously want a relationship with both parents, and sometimes one parent blocks the possibility of a relationship with the other one. Sometimes with these aspects, the home life is no more traumatic than anyone else's but the family relationships and domestic situation are very dynamic, with lots of happenings and moving around, and whilst some may find this exciting, and Sun-Moon may find it exciting too, it tends also to produce feelings of gret insecurity to those with these contacts.

Classically, we all work through the difficulties in our parents' relationship through our own relationships in adult life, repeating the patterns and hopefully learning from them and putting them to more creative use. This is nowhere more the case than in the lives of those who have difficult Sun-Moon aspects.

As with all hard Sun-Moon aspects, the challenge for those with the square is to try to integrate all the seemingly conflicting needs around personal goals, and the present, past and future home and family situations.


If anyone wants interps for CONJUNCTION, OPPOSITION, and TRINE AND SEXTILE, lemme know.

More interps here: http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunmoonaspects.html

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 8738
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 05, 2008 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Sun square Moon, and Sun square Pluto. The cafeastrology interp sounds about right.

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blue moon
Knowflake

Posts: 1344
From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 05, 2008 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

A very good article by Steffan Vanel, I thought.

http://astrologyforthesoul.com/steffanvanel/gwbcancerlibra.html


George W. Bush's Cancer Sun Square Libra Moon
by Steffan Vanel 05/03/04
Copyright 2003. All Rights Reserved


This is the second in a series of articles about the
Astrological Karma of George W. Bush. See my April Column for the first installment of this series.

Personally, I see George W. Bush as a rather wounded Cancer. I say this not only because of the dichotomy between his Leo Ascendant/Aries Midheaven and his Cancer Sun, but because all the tension in his chart (three squares) is afflicting his Sun in Cancer. The themes involved in this tension relate to experiences in childhood, his own past life memory, the family unconscious, and the quality of his mind and belief system.

George W. has the Moon, which represents childhood, in positive aspect to his Venus. This indicates that there was a lot of love and affection in his childhood. This aspect coincides with a close emotional relationship with the mother, which, in George W.’s case by all accounts seems to be true. His Moon is also conjunct to Jupiter, which would represent a positive, beneficent, fortunate, expansive influence in his childhood. The wealth, affluence, and prestige attained by his father, the large family, and the warm-hearted outspokenness of his mother, would all point to this positive influence of Jupiter.

There is a complex of Astrological factors here, however, which would show additional influences at work in the childhood and psychological make-up of George W. Bush. Before I explain these factors, however, I will first describe a major karmic event in the early formative years of George W. Bush. When George W. was three years old his Mother gave birth to a daughter named Pauline Robinson, whom the family called Robin. When George W. was seven the Leo/Aries side of his nature was already giving him a reputation as being quite feisty, a bit bossy, and even somewhat of a bully. In relation to his sister Robin, however, his Cancerian qualities became evident. With Robin his behavior was always gentle, caring, patient, and protective. At the age of seven, however, some intense Astrological ‘transits’ began hitting his birthchart. In February or early March of that year, the elder George and Barbara Bush were told that their daughter Robin had leukemia and would probably die in three weeks. They rushed her to medical specialists in New York and were able to prolong her life for six months until she unfortunately died.

Young George W. knew that Robin was sick, but he was never told that she could die. In his auto-biography George W. says: “I was young enough, and my parents loved me enough, that Robin’s death did not traumatize me.” In contrast, it has been reported that while feeling betrayed by having the truth kept from him by his parents, George W. cried uncontrollably, slammed the door to his room, and destroyed half of his baseball card collection until his mother stopped him. Later he tried to control his tears, but for years afterwards he would wake up screaming from nightmares. One of George W.’s best friends in childhood, Randall Roden, remembers sleeping over at the Bush home one night and being awakened by one of George W.’s nightmares, ‘It was one of the most realistic experiences I have ever had about death, and I am certain it had a profound effect on him because it had a profound effect on me.”

Once again we have another telling dichotomy. Did George W. lie about the more traumatic reactions to his sister’s death or did he suppress them from his memory? In any case, Bush now had to endure the pain of such a tragic loss, with parents who hid the depth of their emotional trauma from their children and continued to live in a situation where it wasn’t really spoken about. George W.’s Moon in Libra being in tension (square) with his Sun in Cancer accurately reflects the tension between the cheery exterior and hidden interiior of the Bush family.

For the Moon in Libra Hilarion says in Astrology Plus:

"This sign is ruled by Venus, the planet of harmony, tranquility, balance, love and beauty. The Moon in this sign at birth denotes an early home environment which was characterized by control of emotional excesses, with at least an outward show of tranquility and harmony. Whether the harmony were really there under the surface can be judged from the degree of affliction to the Moon in this position. A heavily afflicted Libran Moon points to a home life which is superficially smooth and tranquil but with a cauldron of unresolved conflict and turmoil beneath the surface."

In Barbara Bush’s memoir she admits that she and George H.W. Bush awakened each night in great pain after the death of Robin, while hating the fact that nobody spoke of Robin, as if she had never existed.

George W.’s brother, Jeb Bush, described this Libran Moon, emotionally controlled atmosphere in their childhood in the following account he gave in an interview with author Bill Minutaglio:

"It goes against how we were...it’s just, we are not...it’s not natural for us, for, uh, I think I can speak on behalf of all the family, to get into, to be, to turn on this reflective mode and somehow spill our guts,....We were brought up to basically do the exact opposite...and so I think, naturally, it’s an uncomfortable thing."

The positive aspect of this Moon to Venus would indicate that a genuine harmony and love did exist in the family. The difficult aspect (square of the Moon to the Sun) would nevertheless show this tendency for things to appear calmer than they were, an aspect of tension especially difficult for George W.’s Sun in Cancer.

It is to the credit of young George W. that he became very concerned about his mother’s well being at the time of Robin’s death, and it is believed that it was at this time that he tried to uplift the spirits of those around him by becoming the family and later the class clown. His sense of wounding and betrayal, however, still festered. The elder George Bush and Barbara kept trying to have another girl. After another three more boys they finally gave birth to their daughter Dorothy. This was a joyous occasion for all of the other members of the family. It has been noted, however, that George W. was somewhat disconnected and even resentful of Dorothy’s arrival:

I’m ashamed to admit it, but I actually hated Doro the first month or two after she was born. No one in the family mentioned Robin’s name any more and it seemed to me at the time that everyone was fawning over Doro like she was the second coming of the Almighty. You have to remember I was young back then and confused in my feelings and emotions, but I don’t think anyone, including my mother, knew that a little of me died with Robin and seeing this new bably sister only served as a daily reminder for a while of my own personal l

W. was fourteen in the year that Dorothy was born. Carrying the weight of Robin’s tragic death in his psyche reflects the propensity of the sign Cancer to become emotionally attached and even possessive of others in relationship. Indeed, part of the karma of a Sun in Cancer person can be met in the following way (from Hilarion, Astrology Plus):

"When an individual expends most of his energy in the nurture of others, there is a tendency to feel that without these others remaining in contact, there George will be little substance or meaning left to life. The threat of losing the others...can be expanded into a general feeling of great insecurity on the part of the Cancer individual, for which the only antidote is trust in Providence or God. When several lives are lived in the Cancerian pattern, the feeling of insecurity can become a trait in the soul which requires correction through an incarnational pattern in which events are arranged to increase the feeling of insecurity in the hopes that the individual will ultimately turn to an inner faith in something beyond man."


Free Astrology For The Soul and Free Horoscopes:
AstrologyForTheSoul.com


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Kal_El
Knowflake

Posts: 26
From: Rainy City
Registered: Nov 2009

posted February 05, 2008 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kal_El     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks y'all, that helped.

------------------
Scio me nihil scire
tanslation- I know that I know Nothing

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runtzy
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Posts: 30
From:
Registered: Jan 2013

posted August 10, 2015 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for runtzy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Another way I've heard sun square moon manifest is being "your own worst enemy" and "getting in your own way". I have this aspect, and I feel this is accurate, because I never feel like I'm acting natural...

I was wondering what people thought about this, is it your sun getting in the way of your moon? Or your moon getting in the way of your sun?

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3l3n
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Posts: 541
From:
Registered: Nov 2014

posted August 13, 2015 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 3l3n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is very interesting! and true tbh.
What if Uranus is conjuct the Moon to this square? How would we interpret it?

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Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 58110
From: Saturn next to Charmaine
Registered: Apr 2009

posted August 14, 2015 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great question!

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Randall
Webmaster

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From: Saturn next to Charmaine
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posted August 15, 2015 03:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try asking in Astrology 2.0 also.

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Sulkyarcher
Knowflake

Posts: 143
From: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Registered: Dec 2013

posted August 19, 2015 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sulkyarcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Sun trine Moon, it's a loose trine. It makes me lazy as heck!

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Lunar Pisces
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Posts: 30
From:
Registered: Sep 2015

posted October 16, 2015 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lunar Pisces     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by runtzy:
Another way I've heard sun square moon manifest is being "your own worst enemy" and "getting in your own way". I have this aspect, and I feel this is accurate, because I never feel like I'm acting natural...

I was wondering what people thought about this, is it your sun getting in the way of your moon? Or your moon getting in the way of your sun?


I have a 10th house Gem Sun square a 7th house Pisces moon. I think for me it's issue that the needs of my identity (Sun) are not always very compatible with my emotional needs (moon). My Gem Sun needs to explore and evolve and achieve, be independent, individualistic and free, which pulls me in a direction way off the track my moon wants to be on--quiet, stable, attached.

Given that my chart is mostly air, my Sun tends to win, and tells my Pisces moon to go sit in the corner. I tend to "live in my head" and detach myself from my emotions. Life is just easier that way. I recall one horoscope reading that continually referred to my "troublesome emotions" getting in my way and how I needed to learn how to mange these emotions. I manage them by locking them in a closet and ignoring them.

I only delve into my emotions when I'm working on my music or writing, or during my time alone. I spend a lot of time alone. It's actually really hard for me to show my emotional side to other (having Venus conjunct Saturn prolly doesn't help much here either). Because people expect me to be this airy, cerebral person all the time, it can be quite a shock for them to get a glimpse into my Piscean inner life. That is perhaps the hardest thing--feeling that I am not a very well "integrated" person and so people only seem to get to know parts of me. It takes effort on the parts of other peope to get to know me is a real, deeper sense and I often feel that people don't see me as worth the effort (Venus cj Saturn again). So my Pisces moon self feels very neglected and invisible most of the time.

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