posted February 17, 2008 12:43 AM              

I have my natal saturn right at the house cusp between the 11th and 12th house in the sign Virgo. So I guess Saturn can be read in both the 11th & 12th houses. Both Saturn placements are supposed to make the native a loner by nature which only adds to the vagueness of the placement for me because both houses seem to mean the same thing when saturn is there. (I am a loner by the way) Born August 4th 1979 10:45AM Brooklyn, NY

posted February 17, 2008 12:56 AM              

This is from the DKFoundation site:

"Saturn

With Saturn in the 12th House a person tends to be haunted by the spectre of existentialism, the fear that existence is random and meaningless. Yet this placement is found in the charts of some of the most renowned spiritual luminaries. In H12, as in any other, Saturn rewards effort. People with this placement who strive to find a meaning for existence may come to great truths.

It is possible that people with Saturn in H12 are dealing with more than individual Karma, and in working through their own fear and negativity they are helping to transmute the Karma of Mankind. For such a task the rewards are commensurate but there may be years of doubt, darkness and depression before they are experienced.

People with Saturn in H12 are likely to have a parent who is a depressive or has a fearful, defeatist view of life. If not actively over-protected, the child is taught by example that existence is an intrinsically negative experience. Safety is sought in structure, both literally and metaphorically: there is a tendency to hold onto scientific truths and admit little that is not empirically provable. Many find talk of the ‘life beyond’ unnerving. Agoraphobia is also a common condition amongst people with Saturn in H12."

Personally, I would interpret this placement with a focus on hard work and determination. I know someone who has this placement (though it's on the cusp of the 1st house so I interpret both now) and he is very driven. Not overly so but I can always sense that he's got a number of very meaningful projects that he's working on. It's through his creative work that he really shines and expresses himself. I can also see how Saturn in 12th would be a very personal journey.... so if there are hurdles to overcome, the individual deals with them privately, not making a big deal out of it.

That's just one point of view. Saturn in 12th could easily mean dealing with psychological undercurrents that one might need to deal with.

Btw welcome to LL!!

posted February 17, 2008 01:16 AM              

Saturn

With Saturn in the 11th House a person has difficulty in trusting and gaining the acceptance of others. The reason for this karmic situation has to be sought out from the pattern of the chart as a whole. This placement of Saturn can also create difficulties with a child, which may arise from the relation­ship or may indicate a handicap of some kind.

People with this placement of Saturn usually profess not to like groups and gatherings for a variety of reasons. The fundamental problem, however, is the sense of inadequacy and insecurity, which Saturn in H11 tends to feel in the presence of any group of people. Not uncommonly, there is a paranoiac fear of being talked about and ridiculed whenever others are gathered together. This placement of Saturn can cause great loneliness and often has the effect of making a person unduly dependent upon his partner. Cynicism and a dearth of any idealism are also characteristics of this placement.

posted February 17, 2008 01:44 AM              

I remember one year I had these crazy transits "predicting" all these insane scenarios. Stuff about bad people from my past resurfacing, relationships going downhill, illness... and none of it happened. It actually turned out to be a great year.

Are you just getting into astrology? If you're anyhting like me you have to be careful about letting astrology become too enmeshed into daily life. I've had to learn to train myself to use astrology as a tool. Much like a pair of glasses. Put them on when I need to "see" and take them off when I don't need them and just want to LIVE. If you give this tool too much power you'll get dizzy.

posted February 17, 2008 02:20 AM              

"They may suffer a type of guilt or despair - something inside tells them that they are not all they could be.... If they don't reconcile themselves with parts they have denied, then they protect themselves against invasion by double locking their doors and keeping to themselves."

Growing up I was very ambitious, but my dad (who had issues with women with power) would not allow me to do anything that would give me a heads up in the world. He would often keep me from going to school because I was a women and "women are meant to cook for their husbands." Being held back like this has always made me feel like I've never been able to reach my potential or compete against the general population when I had such a late start compared to most. I certainly do keep to myself and lock my doors and when I go to sleep at night I lock the door of my bedroom along with all the others in case an intruder comes in while I'm sleeping. Have always been this way. Looks like I'll have to do some real soul searching.

posted February 17, 2008 04:53 AM            

http://www.donmc.com/natalSaturnin12th.htm

Saturn is the planet that represents restriction, repression, and restraint. But it's not always doom and gloom. It's important to remember that Saturn also represents control, structure, focus, foundation, stability, and discipline. When Saturn is in the 12th house, any of these (or indeed a mixture of them) may be active. We may feel a sense of holding back, a profound sense of privacy, or a confident determination.

posted February 17, 2008 04:59 AM            

imagination

unfocused intuition

withdrawal or isolation

selfless giving

past lives

So he describes Saturn in 12th as being someone who:

* dreams of perfect struture, solid strength, total discipline

* tends to isolate themselves from others, maybe in work that keeps them behind the scenes (so this is potentially very positive - research scientists is an example he gives)

* Fears being selfish and sees selflessness as a duty

posted February 19, 2008 07:36 PM              

Saturn squares my MC and I have had to go out and reach out to those who are not my family to establish close bonds....

When looking at your chart just look in your own life to see what fits about the description of Saturn in the 12th - thing is, you're already dealing with and working with these energies. I have used what I read in astrology books as a simple guideline and it's not really written in stone cause there are MANY interpretations to an aspect/planet in house etc...