posted June 24, 2008 10:15 PM         

I have come to the conclusion that there are two types of soul mates that show up in synastry.

1. KARMIC SOUL MATES - these relationships are 100% fated and are there to teach you something or counter-balance karma. I suspect they involve strong NN/SN and venus/karma aspects.

2. BONUS SOUL MATES - these relationships are a gift from the Universe and are probably also known as 'twin flames'. They have no KARMIC lessons to teach either way and are just 'bonuses' given by the Universe for good deeds done in this life (karmically).

Anyone else agree so far?

tomorrow l will list this synastry of 2 people l have been studying. I am convinced that their relationship was karmic, fated and that there was love (it just wasn't THE love).

Here are some of their EXACT aspects, to start off with!

him/her
Moon square NN
Venus conjunct NN
Venus trine karma
Sun square valentine
NN conjunct pluto
Pluto opposes NN
Sun opposes Pluto
Mars trine karma
Mars opposes sun

unfortunately l do not know her birthtime... but interestingly, these are the only saturn aspects they have - which is probably why it didn't last! AND could be prevalent in Karmic-orientated relationships. lol

her saturn trine his mercury
his saturn square her mars
his saturn trine her valentine

A few more aspects -
Sun trine AC 3 deg
Pluto square juno (0)
NN conjunct eros (1)
NN square valentine (2)
her eros trine his aphrodite (3)
his cupid conjunct her psyche (3)
her valentine sextile his AC (0)
His isis trine her AC (1)
Her Osiris square his sun (1)
her karma trine his AC (1)
his karma square her NN (3)

His MC square her moon (3)
His IC conjunct her venus (3)
His MC conjunct her Pluto (2)
His MC square her karma (0)

Look at SATURN on each other's midpoints!!!
her Saturn is square his sun/moon
his AC is square her venus/mars
his Saturn is square her venus/mars

This was a VERY special yet soul-destroying relationship. It was love/hate and l think there were even break-ups and make-ups...

Looks like a very karmic relationship that ended up blowing up, to me.. what do you all think please?

posted June 25, 2008 10:12 AM         

I have waded my way through several karmic soul mate relationships myself, to date and now l am in a bonus soul mate encounter (of the 3rd kind) l really do see an enormous difference in the two types!!

I will add some more tonight and also put up the synastry of my ex husband and me. We had a frighteningly karmic relationship!!!

posted June 25, 2008 02:51 PM         

her dr sun conjunct his N venus (1)
her dr moon conjunct his N psyche (2)
her dr jupiter conjunct his N vertex (0)
her dr neptune conjunct his N juno (0)
her dr vertex conjunct his N mercury (0)
her dr juno opposes his N eros (0)
her dr isis conjunct his N venus (0)
her dr isis opposes his N cupido (2)
her dr aphrodite opposes his N valentine (1)
her dr siva opposes his N pluto (0)
her dr psyche conjunct his N uranus (1)
her dr psyche opposes his N cupid (1)
her dr AC conjunct his n siva (3)

his dr sun conjunct her N siva (3)
his dr moon conjunct her N saturn (1)
his dr mars conjunct her n vertex (2)
his dr saturn opposes her n aphrodite (1)
his dr neptune conjunct her n juno (0)
his dr osiris conjunct her n moon (3)
his dr osiris opposes her n kaali (3)
his dr aphrodite conjunct her n moon (0)
his dr aphrodite opposes her n kaali (1)
his dr eros conjunct her n valentine (3)
his dr valentine conjunct her n valentine (1)
his dr AC conjunct her n aphrodite (1)
his dr IC conjunct her n psyche (1)

What does everyone think... karmic or true love?

posted June 28, 2008 09:29 AM         

I`m just not completely sure that Karmic involves aLWAYS hard lessons. CAn`t there be karmically deserved love and happiness, too?

Opps sorry, you already answered that question.

posted June 28, 2008 09:48 AM         

I agree with you. Some people believe in both positive and negative karma.

Some believe that positive karma can be positive pastlife experiences.

Some say karma is intent,action in the past that leads to consequences in the future. That's not necessarily negative nor positive...it can be negative....it can be positive....or can be both.

so experiences that 2 souls have experienced from the past(including pastlives) can be karma too. I believe that soulmates,partners can have karma.

I don't think karma,soulmates are that cut and dry.

soulmates aren't necessarily easy relationships either. soulmate relationships can have significant challenges...it could be dealing with ethnic,age,class,social,national differences..it could be having to deal with the same sex(homosexual relationships can be challenging in homophobic society with gay marriages not being legal). it can be having to deal with relatives that don't approve of the relationship because of aforementioned details. Prejudice,fears from others and themselves are major barriers that many soulmates might have to deal with. Other challenges that soulmates could have is having special needs children like autism,Aspergers,Dyspraxia,Dyslexia,AD/HD or severe handicaps like blindness,deafness,paralysis,or things like Cerebral Palsy. The partner can have special needs too. Even having a bi-ethnic child can be a challenge because the child can be so torn between ethnic groups and struggle with identity and so can have confusion. They could be rejected by both ethnic groups or they could be accepted by only the minority ethnic group and rejected by the majority ethnic group. They could even be mistaken for another ethnic group and suffer bigotry because of that. A partner's bi-ethnicism might be an issue of some kind.

for example of soulmates that had barriers,obstacles

Love in Black and White
The Triumph of Love Over Prejudice and Taboo

Mark and Gail Mathabane tell the inspiring true story of how they met, the obstacles they faced, and the turmoil they underwent from both internal and external pressures as they fell in love, married (despite dire warnings from well-meaning friends and relatives), and began a family. After a painful pre-marriage break up, the two vowed to write a book that would inspire other interracial couples to ignore social and parental pressures to have a "racially correct" relationship and to be proud of the racial harmony they represent. The book has become a modern-day classic among interracial couples and biracial adults. http://www.mathabane.com/Love%20Home.htm

They are not necessarily romantic....soulmate relationships can be between friends.

lovers could have been blood related relatives in pastlives and vice versa.

another thing too...if you use the nodes of the Moon in regards to soulmates,pastlives......why not also use the geocentric nodes of Mercury,Venus,Mars,and the asteroids(the ones that aren't beyond Mars). It's not just the Moon that have nodes.
the aspects nodes of planets,asteroids are similar to the aspects of planets,asteroids themselves. similar energy connections. Venus conjunct South Mars Node can be a lovers connection like Venus conjunct Mars, but the former could be a pastlife soulmate indicator of lovers. Aspects to South Eros Node,South Aphrodite Node,South Cupido Node could be pastlive soulmate lovers connection too. Aspects to South Juno node,South Hera Node,South Frigga Node could be pastlife soulmate spouse connection. the north nodes of the planets and asteroids could be karmic connections too.

"My uses of the planetary nodes have been inspired and influenced by the brilliant pioneering work of eminent astrologer, Jeffrey Wolf Green. Strong aspects, especially tight conjunctions, oppositions, and squares, of one partner's planets and/or angles to the Descending Nodes of the other's personal planets (Mercury, Venus, and Mars) are significant indicators of soul mate connection and likely involvement in previous lifetimes. The actual pre-incarnate contact between the two parties strengthens the experience of soulfulness in the relationship exactly because the source of that contact lies outside one's current bodily perimeters. This works in much the same way that meeting an old and close high school friend after an absence of some twenty or thirty years evokes not only the feelings and memories associated with those years together but also an enhanced sense of life's meaning in general through comparison of where we were then and where we are now. These contacts put us in touch with a deeper dimension of life than we could experience within either of those points in time by themselves. The reason we use only the nodes of the innermost planets is because those of the planets from Jupiter on out move too slowly to be of much use in analysis of personal relationships. Contacts to those nodes do indicate prior life overlap but more in the impersonal sense of membership in the same tribe, village, society, or era." http://www.synastry.us/soulmate_indicators.asp

posted June 28, 2008 10:38 AM         

Well, l think a lot of saturn and NN conjuncts could possibly indicate karmic.

By karmic l mean that you come together with another to teach or learn a lesson from a past life. By bonus l mean that in the previous life(s) you sufficiently learnt the karmic lessons so in this life you have a karmic balance - where you simply choose to be together for love with no binding karmic soul crap.

It's still soul level it's just that you already sorted out the karmic side of it. Am l making sense?

I came to this realization by looking at all my past karmic relationships and then looking at my present one. All the past one's are similar and this one is definitely very VERY different. It's more of a relationship where both parties are transparent to each other. I can feel and access his entirety any time l wish and l know he can with me to. It's not like a karmic one where there is friction.

Here is an perfect example of my relationship with my ex husband. These are the saturn aspects only. Later, when my munchkins are asleep l will list the other factors l think make it karmic.

Can l just say that an aspect like venus/AC or DC is a wonderful aspect and can easily be a bonus relationship but if you also have sun/saturn conjunct or NN/karma conjunct then l think it veers toward karmic.

saturn conjunct sun
saturn conjunct mercury
saturn conjunct saturn
saturn conjunct NN
saturn conjunct moon
saturn conjunct venus
saturn conjunct NN
saturn conjunct osiris
saturn square armor
saturn square armor

look at all those damn saturn conjuncts!

now, before you say "it's generational" look at the saturn aspects in have with my father, with whom l have a VERY karmic relationship.

(his saturn to my planets)
saturn conjunct sun
saturn conjunct moon
saturn conjunct venus
saturn square mars
saturn opposing jupiter
saturn square saturn
saturn opposing chiron
saturn conjunct MC

look at how he restricts EVERY area of my life!!!! lol

my saturn to his planets)
saturn quintile sun
saturn square moon
saturn square venus
saturn square NN
saturn square osiris
saturn conjunct armor
saturn conjunct valentine
saturn trine psyche

LOL

see what l mean?

As comparison, this is what l have with my boyfriend now.

saturn trine sun/moon/mars
saturn conjunct chiron
saturn opposing isis

posted June 28, 2008 10:54 AM         

surely love cannot be processed by our intellect!

posted June 28, 2008 11:17 AM         

why only conjunctions to saturn. there can be hard aspects too

even soulmates have responsibilities like having to pay the bills and taking care of children. Saturn would seem very involved in soulmate relationships that have responsibilities.

I think soulmate relationships are too romanticized......makes me think of too much neptune too.

posted June 28, 2008 11:43 AM         

geocentric nodes are the the intersection of the orbital plane of a heavenly body with the orbital plane of the Earth.

the heliocentric nodes are the intersection of the orbital plane of a heavenly body with the orbital plane of the Sun.

just think of 2 whirling hula hoops entwined

Jonathan Dunn's ephemeral calculates the nodes of the Moon and other heavenly bodies including even minor planets like asteroids,centaurs,kuiper belt objects.
http://www.megadelfi.com/~jonathan/pos/

posted June 28, 2008 12:01 PM         

any hard aspect to anything is fine. I am only expressing a view here, not re-writing the astrology book. I just know that there is a difference AND i know that both can be soul mates.

BTW i think neptune is pretty spiritual actually, if the couple are evolved.

posted June 28, 2008 12:07 PM         

I agree with you.

posted June 28, 2008 12:26 PM         

These are all just my own personal observations of course and l guess it means that astrology is starting to make sense to me

posted June 28, 2008 01:02 PM         

I definitely believe in soulmates which I believe is two souls that know each other in pastlives that connect to each other again in current life and that they are not necessarily romantic partners. I believe in soulpartners as in two souls that have a pastlife connection that end up being in a romantic partnership that can be lifelong even though it can be cut short by certain things. I believe that soulpartners can have challenges that make their relationship difficult in some ways but can also make them stronger.

free will is the ultimate factor.

posted June 28, 2008 01:34 PM         

Free will AND also l now believe there is another dynamic which is finding oneself and going through ego death which is achievable after a few major lessons experienced in relationships.

Basically, relationships help us to know ourselves better and perfect the love we have for ourselves. I think once that little seed pod pops and you are truly yourself, then the next relationship has the potential to be a true kindred spirit, on your side and not pushing any 'karmic' buttons at all except the evolving together ones.

posted June 28, 2008 03:07 PM         

Does that account for the many a description of the 'familiar' yet 'uncomfortable' feeling people describe upon encountering kindred souls from their family? I once heard the description of someone who saw another for the first time as "uncomfortable for none other than the fact that I felt completely naked in their presence I wish they would go away" as in they saw right through this person describing, and the other person was not even focusing on that person.

Or perhaps it is an aspect in their synastry...? Hmmm....

posted June 28, 2008 03:09 PM         

But I think it`s definitely interesting and worth a look to also look at the Venus-nodes for example, especially regarding romantic relationships.

I also read in Rose Murray`s book that she is looking at the Venus-Zodiac for connections in synastry - it is the same as the Draconics, only in regard to the Venus positions.
Probably one would have to use the Venus-Nodes for that, because we also use the Moon Nodes for the Draconic zodiac. It could be interesting to see the differences between the Venus-SN-zodiac and the Venus-NN-zodiac in synastry.

Any volunteers for research here?