posted October 11, 2008 09:14 AM         

I call a thing free which exists and acts from the pure necessity of its nature, and I call that unfree, of which the being and action are precisely and fixedly determined by something else. Thus, for example, God, though necessary, is free because he exists only through the necessity of his own nature. Similarly, God cognizes himself and all else freely, because it follows solely from the necessity of his nature that he cognizes all. You see, therefore, that for me freedom consists not in free decision, but in free necessity.

But let us come down to created things which are all determined by external causes to exist and to act in a fixed and definite manner. To perceive this more clearly, let us imagine a perfectly simple case. A stone, for example, receives from an external cause acting upon it a certain quantity of motion, by reason of which it necessarily continues to move, after the impact of the external cause has ceased. The continued motion of the stone is due to compulsion, not to the necessity of its own nature, because it requires to be defined by the thrust of an external cause. What is true here for the stone is true also for every other particular thing, however complicated and many-sided it may be, namely, that everything is necessarily determined by external causes to exist and to act in a fixed and definite manner.

Now, please, suppose that this stone during its motion thinks and knows that it is striving to the best of its ability to continue in motion. This stone, which is conscious only of its striving and is by no means indifferent, will believe that it is absolutely free, and that it continues in motion for no other reason than its own will to continue. But this is just the human freedom that everybody claims to possess and which consists in nothing but this, that men are conscious of their desires, but ignorant of the causes by which they are determined. Thus the child believes that he desires milk of his own free will, the angry boy regards his desire for vengeance as free, and the coward his desire for flight. Again, the drunken man believes that he says of his own free will what, sober again, he would fain have left unsaid, and as this prejudice is innate in all men, it is difficult to free oneself from it. For, although experience teaches us often enough that man least of all can temper his desires, and that, moved by conflicting passions, he sees the better and pursues the worse, yet he considers himself free because there are some things which he desires less strongly, and some desires which he can easily inhibit through the recollection of something else which it is often possible to recall.
-Spinoza

Because this view is so clearly and definitely expressed it is easy to detect the fundamental error that it contains. The same necessity by which a stone makes a definite movement as the result of an impact, is said to compel a man to carry out an action when impelled thereto by any reason. It is only because man is conscious of his action that he thinks himself to be its originator. But in doing so he overlooks the fact that he is driven by a cause which he cannot help obeying. The error in this train of thought is soon discovered. Spinoza, and all who think like him, overlook the fact that man not only is conscious of his action, but also may become conscious of the causes which guide him. Nobody will deny that the child is unfree when he desires milk, or the drunken man when he says things which he later regrets. Neither knows anything of the causes, working in the depths of their organisms, which exercise irresistible control over them. But is it justifiable to lump together actions of this kind with those in which a man is conscious not only of his actions but also of the reasons which cause him to act? Are the actions of men really all of one kind? Should the act of a soldier on the field of battle, of the scientific researcher in his laboratory, of the statesman in the most complicated diplomatic negotiations, be placed scientifically on the same level with that of the child when it desires milk: It is no doubt true that it is best to seek the solution of a problem where the conditions are simplest. But inability to discriminate has before now caused endless confusion. There is, after all, a profound difference between knowing why I am acting and not knowing it. At first sight this seems a self-evident truth. And yet the opponents of freedom never ask themselves whether a motive of action which I recognize and see through, is to be regarded as compulsory for me in the same sense as the organic process which causes the child to cry for milk.

posted October 11, 2008 10:52 AM         

Rudolf Steiner, The Philosophy of Freedom

posted October 11, 2008 07:09 PM         

As for composite charts and tranists, I believe that fate,free will and faith all have an important role in destiny. By faith I mean surrendering, letting go of the outcome but doing the footwork. Surrendering has worked well in my life.

I need to focus more on free will and using God given natural abilities,talents, for the life I was born to live - Destiny.

Pisces Ascendant
Sun cusp of libra and scorpio
Moon Capricorn
Venus Tarus
Mars Aquarius
Jupiter scorpio
North node Leo

posted October 12, 2008 05:18 PM         

I have been thinking about your question Can faith alter FATE? Or since we're talking astrology, can faith alter astrology? If so, how?

I think there are many crosslinks with faith and fate - meaning beliefs,faith, can alter astrology.

posted October 13, 2008 08:46 PM         

Yup...that's exactly what I meant. I read an article by Liz Greene that said our natal chart is something that we can work with and make decisions about and can alter personality through our will. It said that a composite chart, however, is more of a fated kind of thing, and we cannot alter what it is. The only thing that we can do is change our mind about how we view it.

I guess that one stuck me with the question of "How much free will do we really have then?" I can have amazing feelings for a person (synastry), but circumstances beyone my control (composite) may deem that we are never to be together.

My question is: If I exercise faith against something within a composite, can I change that? What has been your experience?

Thanks for your in depth answer Saronna. You're an awesome addition to LL.

And special thanks to Unmoved who has faith to move mountains!

posted October 13, 2008 10:21 PM         

When I was with my ex, a few years ago, I worked through Linda Goodman's relationship book on lover's charts (relationship comparision). What was interesting was we had alot of soulmate aspects based on the time of birth. Yet, when I used Edgar Cayce's suggestion of soul birth ( up to four and half hours before physical birth) it negated love aspects like Ascendant aspects.

But, I intuitely knew my ex's were not my soulmates but in denail about it. I believe whether one is a soulmate - twinnsoul is predestined and one just has an inner knowing about whether one is a soulmate - twinn soul or not. The relationship comparison charts does question how much free will one really has and control over love aspects. I think love aspects can be influenced by free will, faith and most of all by love.

But, I think soulmates-twinnsoul factor cannot be changed as either you are twinnsouls - soulmates or you are not. I believe that you can have many past life deep relationships but only one twinnsoul - soulmate.

posted October 13, 2008 10:55 PM         

I believe everything is pre written for you and you tread on the path, yet you are free to make your own decisions

posted October 13, 2008 11:10 PM         

It may seem like there's no free will because like Spinoza pointed out we have a nature and we act in accordance to it. Our freedom is limited by our identity. But I think we can be the co-creators of our identity, and in that act of self-creation, become free.

Through self-awareness, we can see why we want a certain choice. Then through self-consciousness, we can step outside of ourselves and study if the choice we want is really the best choice for us. Not the "us" of this moment, but a more abstract "us" that stands outside of circumstances and time. If we decide it's not the best choice for us, we can choose differently, and in that choice expand who we are. I think we're constantly creating ourselves through the choices we make. Awareness --> creative imagination ---> creative power = freedom. (Uranus --> Neptune --> Pluto ?)

posted October 13, 2008 11:26 PM         

First off, many couples have the same composite aspects, yet have very different relationships. So I don't think these aspects are so definite in their outcome. I think the attitude both people bring towards the chart, and each person's capacity for self-awareness and creativity impacts how the chart plays out.

Venus square Saturn is often written about as an aspect of doom. It's said to lead to unfulfilled love and frustration. I can say that's not the only option because my SO and I have that aspect in our composite. What did happen though is Venus had to meet Saturn: fears and insecurities had to be exposed. Without doing that, a lasting relationship would've been impossible for us. We worked through that square though, and are more bonded and in love now than we were in the early days when we both wanted to live just as Venus. We both had to grow up, and we did together, in this relationship. Maybe some relationships with Venus square Saturn bite the dust because both of the parties involved don't want to grow or aren't aware of how they need to. And maybe some blossom and thrive because the couple learns from that square.

External circumstances have worked against what we want as a couple. We even had to cancel our wedding this summer because on that very day my mom got very ill. So painful events have kept us from a smooth path as a couple, but our freedom is in how we react to those events. They've made us even closer. We have each other's back through everything. So maybe that's another way Venus square Saturn can play out?

posted October 14, 2008 05:48 AM         

"But, I think soulmates-twinnsoul factor cannot be changed as either you are twinnsouls - soulmates or you are not. I believe that you can have many past life deep relationships but only one twinnsoul - soulmate."

I agree completely. I understand the quest that people have to find their soulmate, but you are so right. When you do, you KNOW beyond any doubt. No amount of astrology saying "yes" or "no" can alter your experience. And if you're asking if they're a soul mate, chances are they're not. (Although I do think soul mates come in many forms...to help us learn.)

VirgOh...I can see that in a way. Predestination of things, but you have the choice to say yes or no to the experience?

posted October 14, 2008 06:03 AM         

"What did happen though is Venus had to meet Saturn: fears and insecurities had to be exposed. Without doing that, a lasting relationship would've been impossible for us."

Step one noted! I've been getting this message in a lot of different ways lately. Serendipitous!

"Painful external circumstances indicated by hard aspects don't have to mean the death of a relationship. It could just mean that this is a partner who will be with you through life's painful times, and its ecstatic times, and everything in between."

I am so grateful for your perspective on this. It's really making me think. So...it does make me wonder then, if a couple only had smooth and flowing aspects, if hard times could break them up because they couldn't hold it together through them.

"Painful external circumstances indicated by hard aspects don't have to mean the death of a relationship. It could just mean that this is a partner who will be with you through life's painful times, and its ecstatic times, and everything in between."

Sounds like the best kind to have! xo

8th

posted October 14, 2008 07:31 AM         

Well said, Jane! I agree just because there are hard aspects it doesn't mean the end of the relationship. To me, hard aspects are just indicators for an opportunity for personal soul - growth - an experience. That's where I think free will and faith can alter astrology and composite charts.

I agree 8th, it's the best way to travel with hard composite aspects!

posted October 14, 2008 08:25 AM         

"I agree completely. I understand the quest that people have to find their soulmate, but you are so right. When you do, you KNOW beyond any doubt. No amount of astrology saying "yes" or "no" can alter your experience. And if you're asking if they're a soul mate, chances are they're not. (Although I do think soul mates come in many forms...to help us learn.)"

It's a knowing beyound any doubt.

Hugs

posted October 14, 2008 08:58 AM         

Well, l believe that fate leads to destiny.. and they are entwined or soul mates with each other

I think free will is great although sometimes if we don't listen to our soul/intuition then our free will can lead us massively off-road!!

Destiny is just really the reward we are due once we have followed fate faithfully and learn the lessons along the way, no? Destiny could then be another word for higher self??

posted October 21, 2008 05:06 PM         

Well said, jane!

In the reality of love we find the greatest mystery and the finest key to our own human evolution...

posted October 22, 2008 12:25 PM         

Great insight !

I believe you are right,

I know of one soul mate that I have and his point of destiny falls on my pluto ( natal ) then his progressed destiny hit my natal union and his progressed union hit my natal destiny. That is when pluto took over I went through my spiritual death and rebirth I found the reasons for why in his 13th harmonic ( transformation, death and rebirth) I guess that was our karma together. IN looking at the Harmonics the asteroids can help point out important information.