Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted November 19, 2008 10:53 PM         

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Hey everybody, I have Sagittarius ascendant, but my Jupiter is in Gemini- meaning jupiter is detriment, in traditional astrology this is considered malefic, I don't believe this is malefic, just that Jupiter doesn't work as well with Gemini. Anyone else have the same thing going on?

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Sun - Leo
Moon - Pisces
Ascendant - Sagittarius

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Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted November 19, 2008 11:02 PM         

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"There are four commonly used categories: rulership (described above), detriment, exaltation, and fall. A planet is considered to be in its sign of detriment when placed in the sign opposite the one that it rules; for example, the Sun rules Leo and is in detriment in Aquarius". http://www.mountainastrologer.com/standards/new_to_astro/beginners/6.html

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From: Richmond, VA USA
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posted November 20, 2008 12:44 AM         

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My Sun is detriment in Aquarius. W/e.

I don't think it's necessarily bad, mainly because being an Aquarius Sun is AWESOME.

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posted November 20, 2008 01:00 AM         

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I don't like the sound of this detriment thing, I always hear it and get weirded out. It makes it sound as though a person is ill-fated or something

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From: CA, USA
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posted November 20, 2008 01:22 AM         

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My chart ruler, Mercury (Gemini Ascendant), is in detriment in Sag, but it's well aspected there, and my IQ is quite the opposite of poor. As such, I don't believe in "detriments".

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted November 20, 2008 01:24 AM         

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Just for the sake of clarity, malefic is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malefic_planet

quote:

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In astrology, a malefic planet, or simply malefic, is traditionally thought to bring bad luck and misfortune. Mars is considered the lesser malefic, while Saturn is the greater malefic. In modern astrology Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and for some Ceres are also considered malefic.

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Aqu Sun is in detriment because it concerned with our relationship with others, that is, the group. I'm an Aqu Sun and it's hard work being an Aqu I think. The Sun is about self and ego and is expressed best in Leo because "its about my show". It's of course not fatal to have an Aqu sun, there's been millions of us and none of us have fallen of the planet and we don't think of the difficulties usually pertaining to this but think of how Aquarians are always misunderstood for example.

Leo - Me (domicile)
Aries - I (exalted)
Aqu - We (detriment)
Libra - You (fall)

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Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted November 20, 2008 01:44 AM         

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What does IQ have to do with astrology? Going off topic, the IQ test was geared for testing the intelligence of white anglo-saxon men, and if you don't fit these biased standards, then your intelligence is not accurately reflected.

I know what malefic means, I was using it in the terms that were used by Ptolemy in relation to detriments, here is an traditional interpretation of detriments:

"If a planet is situated in a sign which opposes its own it is said to be in detriment, a word which literally means to be harmed or damaged. Since a planet's own sign is regarded as its stronghold, it follows that the furthest sign from this should be viewed as its most vulnerable position". http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html

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From: Outside, to watch the nightfall in the rain
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posted November 20, 2008 01:58 AM         

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Well maybe in the traditional view that it is "dangerous", I can see why it says that but as I said, millions of Aqu sun people aren't going to die all of a sudden. Detriment just means some inability to express themselves to a "decent" level or just difficulties in expression, however having said that it's again not fatal.

This ties in with another thread that is bouncing around. A sign can express it's opposite signs qualities but usually the "negative" qualities. An example I used was a Libra Sun person can for example be very confrontational and aggressive, negative qualities traditionally associated with Aries. Likewise here with detriment planets, it's wearing a an outfit that won't suit it.

So for example, take Jupiter in Gemini. Mercury is quick, light, witty, detailed and wears skinny leg jeans. Jupiter is big if not fat or simply gutty with big thighs, jolly, explorative and takes the broadbrush approach that might dress in casual sports gear. You are asking Jupiter in Gemini to act Mercurial, akin to a fat or a big thighed person person wearing skinny legs. What's the result? At worst Jupiter can't fit into Mercury's jeans but it usually can but the look is unflattering (for example Jupiter might have a muffin top).

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From: Richmond, VA USA
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posted November 20, 2008 01:58 AM         

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Oh and I forgot..

My chart ruler is in accidental detriment because it is in the 9th (accidental detriments have to do with house placements instead of signs). Mercury's domicile is the 3rd house, and in detriment in the 9th.

It is not necessarily bad, but the energies of the planet and the sign/house in question are at odds with one another. For example, Venus is fall in Virgo because Virgo is a highly critical and thinking sign, whereas Venus is about feeling and love without fault (which is why it is exalted in Pisces).

Another example: Mars is the planet of action and its domicile is Aries. Libra tends to weigh decisions before acting, prefering to think first.

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posted November 20, 2008 08:50 AM         

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I loved the skinny leg jeans analogy 23. Very clever!

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posted November 20, 2008 10:19 AM         

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I agree! My Mars in Cancer ( Mars is ASC ruler ) feels very uncomfortable there, very restricted , undetermined.

I belive that Mars wants action, energy, even aggression, but can't have it there or it can have but in some strange, passive way. It just can't move.

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From: Chiangmai Thailand
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posted November 20, 2008 10:48 AM         

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Well, as 23 put it, I have both Jupiter with a muffin top and Mars clomping around in high-heels. Neither of them is my chart ruler but yes, it's almost visible to me how awkward they are where they are.

here's sign detriment from g.astrology.com:

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posted November 20, 2008 11:29 AM         

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Ok now I'm really confused. My chart ruler is Venus but Venus is in Sag/3rd house.

Venus also rules Taurus which is in my 8th house and Libra is my Ascendant in the 1st. So is Venus in detriment?

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Sun: Scorpio
Moon: Capricorn
Ascendant: Libra

Venus in Sagittarius
Mars in Sagittarius

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From: CA, USA
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posted November 20, 2008 12:05 PM         

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quote:

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What does IQ have to do with astrology? Going off topic, the IQ test was geared for testing the intelligence of white anglo-saxon men, and if you don't fit these biased standards, then your intelligence is not accurately reflected.

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http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/taboos/apa_01.html

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From: Isle of Wight U.K
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posted November 20, 2008 12:47 PM         

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I have a similar thing, but not the same. My Saturn is retrograde and in Cancer (detriment), and tight to my Ascendent. It really is a b@stard. I'm not even kidding. I've had alot of emotional pain in my life.

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From: Richmond, VA USA
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posted November 20, 2008 12:52 PM         

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No Scorp31, your Venus is not in detriment.

Venus would be in detriment if it were in Aries, or Scorpio, fall if it were in Virgo. As for accidental detriment, it would be 8th house, or 1st house.

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posted November 20, 2008 03:26 PM         

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amowls

Thanks for the response. Not to change the direction of the thread, but if its not any of the three what would it be?

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Sun: Scorpio
Moon: Capricorn
Ascendant: Libra

Venus in Sagittarius
Mars in Sagittarius

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From: Richmond, VA USA
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posted November 20, 2008 04:35 PM         

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Actually Scorp31, your Moon is in detriment, since it is in Capricorn (the Moon's domicile is Cancer, opposite of Capricorn).

Your Venus is neither Domicile, Detriment, Exalted or Fall. It is what it is.

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posted November 20, 2008 06:48 PM         

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I asked a question about something like this in the Astrology Class section. I'm still a bit confused as to how the whole Dignified/Fall/Detriment thing works though.

Virgo ASC
Sun in Leo, in the 11th (Moon is in Aquarius, in the 6th)
Mercury in Virgo, in the 12th
Venus in Virgo, in the 1st
Mars in Virgo, in the 1st
Saturn in Aquarius, in the 5th
Uranus in Capricorn, in the 5th
Pluto in Scorpio, in the 3rd (completely forgot this one. xD)

Most of my "dignified" planets fall into the opposing house which would also make them detriment? I'm just not sure how to interpret
how the energies are supposed to work.

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Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2006

posted November 20, 2008 07:38 PM         

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I like your analogy 23! But my jupiter in Gemini can pull off the skinny jeans quite well! Mercury is conjunct my Sun in Leo, and Jupiter is sextile to my Sun and Mercury, and trine my Aries Mars. What is interesting is that when a planet is in triplicity (for example Mars in Aries, Sun in Leo, and Pluto in Scorpio) it becomes a chart ruler besides the ascendent.

I have another example of Sagittarius Ascendant with Jupiter in Gemini, Oprah Winfrey. The analogy about the skinny jeans definitely suits Oprah, especially how easy it is for her to fluctuate in weight, we even share the same house placement of jupiter in the sixth house, and she is a sun in Aquarius which is detriment to the Sun.

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posted November 20, 2008 07:52 PM         

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i don't seem to have any detriment placements, although i don't know how to tell malafe placements or the the other ones, can some one explain to me the other placements? i understand the triplicity one.

iv got a few of those, i have triplicity in :

sun - leo
mercury - virgo
venus - libra
saturn - capricorn
pluto - scorpio
eros - scorpio

there is a price for those placements - dodgy cardinal square

my ruling planet is leo asc, aries mc, iv got a aries moon, does having a leo asc boost "leo" in a leo sun person? does aries mc boost an aries moon even worse? :S

sorry for going a bit off topic there.

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Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
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posted November 20, 2008 08:41 PM         

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Libralove09, If your a Leo sun with a Leo asc. then your sun is either in the 1st or 12th house. If its in the first house, the sun is your chart ruler for certain. What Decantes of Leo are your Sun and Asc. in? This can also give a better clue as to what other planet will add to the chart ruler. For example I was born when Leo is the sun decante, and my Asc. in Sagittarius is in the Mars decantes, Mars is definitely a chart ruler for me.

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Sun - Leo
Moon - Pisces
Ascendant - Sagittarius

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posted November 20, 2008 08:55 PM         

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sorry but i don't know how to work out the decantares, can u show me how i tell what these decantares are in the chart?

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Posts: 241
From: Portland, OR, USA
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posted November 21, 2008 12:09 AM         

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Okay Libralove09, your ascendant is in the Jupiter decante, and your Leo Sun is in the Mars decante, so these planets add to your Leo Sun and Ascendent!

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Sun - Leo
Moon - Pisces
Ascendant - Sagittarius

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From: 11/6/78 11:38am Boston, MA
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posted November 21, 2008 12:57 AM         

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I think you mean decanAte. Or decan, for short.

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