posted November 05, 2003 06:15 AM         

She is so concerned she feels she has to constantly watch him. He says that he isn't doing anything wrong. In addition they are having problems with their sex life. She says that she feels like he isn't attracted to her, yet, in another sentence she say's that he get's turned on watching her.

She says that she feels she can't compete with other women.

If anyone has any advice to offer at all I would appreciate it. I took the statements and questions above from a desperate email from her.

I feel bad for her and it is strange for me to see her in this position. She has always been the one to guide me with her strength.

She is:

PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Capricorn 02°44'21 06
Moon Gemini 19°55'35 11
Mercury Sagittarius 11°11'03 05
Venus Capricorn 13°18'45 06
Mars Taurus 16°43'31 10
Jupiter Scorpio 22°39'53 04
Saturn Sagittarius 28°39'11 05/6
Uranus Leo 15°53'01 01
Neptune Scorpio 06°24'30 04
Pluto Virgo 04°08'47 02
True Node Libra 19°28'06 03/4

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Leo 01°19'17
2nd House Leo 22°49'28
3rd House Virgo 18°23'23
Imum Coeli Libra 19°42'58
5th House Scorpio 25°26'47
6th House Capricorn 00°30'19
Descendant Aquarius 01°19'17
8th House Aquarius 22°49'28
9th House Pisces 18°23'23
Medium Coeli Aries 19°42'58
11th House Taurus 25°26'47
12th House Cancer 00°30'19

He is:

PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Aries 06°46'16 10
Moon Virgo 06°21'11 03
Mercury Pisces 20°42'26 09
Venus Taurus 00°54'30 10
Mars Taurus 05°26'06 10
Jupiter Taurus 20°31'32 11
Saturn Libra 25°16'37 04
Uranus Cancer 14°26'40 12
Neptune Libra 22°57'15 04
Pluto Leo 21°05'38 02
True Node Aquarius 11°05'10 08

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Cancer 19°54'52
2nd House Leo 10°36'29
3rd House Virgo 04°29'41
Imum Coeli Libra 04°11'48
5th House Scorpio 10°06'21
6th House Sagittarius 17°17'22
Descendant Capricorn 19°54'52
8th House Aquarius 10°36'29
9th House Pisces 04°29'41
Medium Coeli Aries 04°11'48
11th House Taurus 10°06'21
12th House Gemini 17°17'22

Composite Horoscope midpoint method
PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Aquarius 19°45'19 08
Moon Cancer 28°08'23 01
Mercury Aquarius 00°56'44 07
Venus Pisces 07°06'37 08
Mars Taurus 11°04'48 10
Jupiter Aquarius 21°35'43 08
Saturn Scorpio 26°57'54 05
Uranus Leo 00°09'51 01
Neptune Libra 29°40'52 04
Pluto Leo 27°37'13 02
True Node Sagittarius 15°16'38 05

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Cancer 25°37'04
2nd House Leo 16°42'59
3rd House Virgo 11°26'32
Imum Coeli Libra 11°57'23
5th House Scorpio 17°46'34
6th House Sagittarius 23°53'50
Descendant Capricorn 25°37'04
8th House Aquarius 16°42'59
9th House Pisces 11°26'32
Medium Coeli Aries 11°57'23
11th House Taurus 17°46'34
12th House Gemini 23°53'50

posted November 05, 2003 10:09 AM         

It seems that Lindaland is the place where I shall often be tested in uncertainty. I do not presume that my words are popular, nor do I expect that all that I say will be accepted. These are issues that will be addressed in the future. Thus, at the present time, I am bound by certain rules of courtesy that require that I do not step outside delineated bounds of accepted convention. This writing will test those bounds and I will respectfully request that the post be deleted if too much reaction is generated or if there is unhealthy levels of negativity.

I cannot offer any insights astrologicaly, but there is a Teaching which describes the masculine and feminine archetypes. I leave it to your discretion to determine if this is helpful.

Imagine spiritual evolution on a scale of one to ten, one being driven by animal desires and ten existing in Unity. The feminine archetypal design is created at a starting point of three or four. The masculine archetypal design has a starting point of one.

In this great dance of the masculine and the feminine, one is completed through Knowing the other. Both were meant to arrive at transcendence.

Because of the feminine spiritual birth, she is blessed with the ability to be free of the more animalistic desires that are the bane of humanity. With very little effort she has the ability to realize a state and station that is free of jealousy and pettiness.

Because of the masculine base birth, he begins a long war with the ego. A war in which he is torn between his spiritual aspirations and his base desires.

Man recognizes the state and station of the woman but does not comprehend it. Woman (eventually) recognizes the state and station of the man and reacts to it. As a result of this mutual recognition, the man seeks to control the woman (the origin of patriarchy) and the woman is plagued with arrogance, recognizing her superiority.

In a perfect dance, eventually the man will stop reacting and begin to discern that the female holds the key/answer to his struggle with his base instincts. Eventually, the woman will understand that the man suffers greatly from this affliction and will have compassion for his trial.

At this point the man will begin his spiritual ascension and the woman will begin to shed her arrogance (which cannot exist in the presence of compassion). They will meet at a point of spiritual and practical harmony, in peace and love.

But of course, humanity has deviated from the archetypes and now finds itself in anxiety and distress. The women have voluntarily taken on the baser aspects of the male, feeling “equal” when they practice sexual promiscuity and indulge in baser desires. Of course they are correct, in that, they now exist at the same state and station as the man.

When women forgo their spiritual station, they are signing a death sentence for the man. Now he has no access to the “other”. No hint of the spiritual path that will liberate him from his base ego drives. The woman begins to manifest the symptoms of the male such as jealousy, possession and control, things which are inherently foreign to her design.

The masculine archetype is designed to be reactionary to the environment so that he may have the tools to fight his ego. The feminine archetype is designed to accommodate the environment so that she may endure the relationship and bring both of them liberation. When the female takes the male’s base nature, the male stops reacting since his ego position has been validated. When the female takes the male’s base nature, she immediately accommodates herself to this new station and state, lacking the tools in her design to react against this movement. Indeed, she has absolutely no perception that anything is “wrong” in her environment.

According to this Teaching, they both become locked in a downward spiral that results in disunity and disharmony.

As you can see, according to this Teaching, if your friend were to access her feminine archetype she would understand that her spiritual relationship and love with this man supercedes any physical barrier, manifestation or wrong/sin. If he were unfaithful, she would indeed make life hell for him. That is her right. A wrong has been done and he must come to see this reality. Physical fidelity must accompany any spiritual relationship, as she well understands from her design. However, the infidelity would not break the bond between the souls and he would be given more opportunities to rectify his actions and ascend.

Even in the worst case where the man never achieves liberation, her suffering will eventually lead her to compassion and she will evolve irrespective of him or his actions. Conversely, even if she never achieves compassion but remains punishing and accusatory, he would eventually begin to ask himself how she endures, restrains herself and controls destructive urges. He knows that his reactionary nature could never tolerate repeated infidelity/sin and he will evolve irrespective of her or her actions.

My most profound apologies if this has offended those who would see this Teaching as an affront to feminine liberation or the feminist movement in general. That is not the intention or the spirit of this writing.

Peace.
Meili

posted November 05, 2003 11:20 AM         

Thank you for sharing them.

posted November 06, 2003 04:35 AM         

Thank you for your kind words, you are consistent. I know that you often give advice to others here and spend of your time and energy to make a difference. May your service always be accepted.

I would ask if you have an alternate construct that would explain the masculine and feminine principle? I do understand that my offering is quite difficult, if not impossible, for many to accept.

As a side, although I am indeed female, I do not have a horse in this particular race. There is another level to this Teaching that assigns a particular difficultly to the feminine that the masculine does not encounter or experience. Thus, the initial percieved imbalance is not a reality only a temporary perception.

Peace.
Meili

PS -- how is your inner woman, by the way? and if you don't understand that this is a tongue in cheek joke, then you are a dork.

posted November 06, 2003 05:30 AM         

Good luck and I hope I have helped in some way.

---------------------------------------------

There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving and that is your own self - Aldous Huxley

posted November 06, 2003 12:00 PM         

I am so proud of you

You spoke so eloquently. This is the truth and it's about time it's spoken outloud!

What you said justified my feelings. Society has relationships so mixed up that everyone is sacrificing their souls and suffering. People are betraying themselves to follow society. Women especially don't listen to themselves anymore because men have so many women chasing them who will give them what they want that if they don't play the man's game they loose. And men don't follow their true nature.

These are questions I've been asking myself and trying to support my beliefs but it's hard in face of society which tells you your wrong give in, it's your fault.

posted November 06, 2003 12:08 PM         

My perception is that both men and woman are capable of being a 1 or a 10 on your scale. I believe that we incarnate many times in this physical world, some as men and some as woman. each has their own culturalization process, each is given to potential animalistic or altruistic tendencies.

"Because of the feminine spiritual birth, she is blessed with the ability to be free of the more animalistic desires that are the bane of humanity. With very little effort she has the ability to realize a state and station that is free of jealousy and pettiness.

Because of the masculine base birth, he begins a long war with the ego. A war in which he is torn between his spiritual aspirations and his base desires."

In my experiences, the Ego is not gender specific. And as for woman being able to easily rise above jealouscy and pettiness, reality doesn't seem to bear that out.

"PS -- how is your inner woman, by the way? and if you don't understand that this is a tongue in cheek joke, then you are a dork."

My inner woman is alive and well, so I guess that makes me something other than a dork.

Lanny

posted November 06, 2003 12:30 PM         

a bewildered juniperb

posted November 06, 2003 04:14 PM         

My apologies Aphrodite! I was composing a reply to Lanny when my dearest soul sister sauntered by the computer and inquired about the subject. She laughed when she realized what I had written since she knew it would create a bit of a stir. Creating a stir is not my usual habit, but it certainly is a way of life for her

Thus, she fell into the spirit of the debate and decided to tease Lanny. She is my love and soul mate and I have never denied her anything. How could I frown and say no, especially with her laughter ringing and her joy so infectious? My only request was that she identify herself as "not Meili", and even this brought cackles of laughter since she thought it would be quite funny to put the words in my mouth In summary, she knows nothing about anyone here, it was her spirit of playfulness that inpired the PS and not mean spiritedness.

My apologies once again, and you will forgive me also if I do not spoil her fun. I plan to tell her that everyone enjoyed her silly joke and thought it was extremely funny!

posted November 06, 2003 04:29 PM         

Thank you for your kind response.

Of course, in any writing there will be a tendancy to generalize. The only way to avoid such generalization is to have a one on one relationship and tailor the Teaching to the state and station of the person. Thus, in any generalization it is possible to argue the exceptions. Certainly there are men who are born with exceptional spiritual states that surpass the ordinary female. However, as a generalization and across the world cultural populations as a whole, I have found this teaching to be consistent.

As a side note, not all reincarnate. Especially not on the scale that is promoted by popular New Age texts. However, you are correct when you say that the Ego is not gender specific. It must be realized though, that the Ego manifests itself in seven levels and it is necessary to move through each in order to have a perspective on the previous (some say four levels, but the number is a convenience and arbitrary). Finally, I did say the the female has the ability to move above pettiness and jealousy, not that she would develop that ability. If there were the same number of texts teaching the development of the feminine as there is on developing psychic abilities, groups and cultures would not struggle with ideas such as this.

Thank you again Lanny, and I can see that you are very much in touch with your inner woman However, I will apologize again if you were offended by my Friend.

Peace.
Meili

posted November 06, 2003 04:40 PM         

I do realize the comparative nature of society and it is indeed almost impossible to break with the masses. In my short time here I have never experienced such hesitation to write on a subject. Not for myself, I am well past the struggle with acceptance and I do know myself quite well, the masculine and feminine aspects. But because I did not know if the Time was appropriate. As the sages say, "Time, Place, People" eh?

Thank you very much for your kind words, they are most appreciated.

Peace and Blessings, may you find your voice in the crowd.

posted November 06, 2003 04:58 PM         

It is a pleasure to talk with you. Of course I am familiar with the Nag Hammadi writings in a general way. I am familiar with many things in a general way. However, I have not read the text you mention, but I will certainly look it up.

To my knowledge there is no written work on this subject, although the text you mention may touch on the subject. I have simplified the concept for ease of communication to a large group. The actual, detailed construct would take many more pages than the readers of Lindaland would want or wish to consume

As I mentioned to Lanny, this is a process and I have only described the initial part of the dynamic. That which comes after deals with the feminine frustrations and barriers to spiritual Unity. Barriers that the masculine does not encounter. Of course, what I have just noted is also subject to the generalization disclaimer. The most effective transmission of any Teaching is to avoid group generalizations, or to form a group that will harmonize differences and maximize learning. That is not possible in most public settings.

You also have a broad esoteric base. Have you discovered any underlying principles in your research and discoveries?

Peace and Blessings.
Meili

posted November 06, 2003 05:04 PM         

I would only add that, even if the man in question is not "hers" and is not faithful, she should consider carfully if that is a sufficient reason to break a bond of souls. If it is, then she has two duties. One to discover why she would break such a bond and two, to overcome whatever internal obstical exists that caused her to break this bond. The man has other duties, but he is not in question.

Peace and many thanks for your communication. It has been a pleasure.

posted November 06, 2003 05:12 PM         

My Friend's actions often bewilder people so do not feel alone! She is an experience. I often accuse her of being an event. Not to worry, she rarely moves in these circles so confusion will not be a regular issue

posted November 06, 2003 06:00 PM         

Perhaps we could use more of her events to keep on our toes

juniperb

posted November 06, 2003 06:24 PM         

Many thanks for your kind words. Shizuka is best taken in small doses. She would likely be barred from here within a few posts, so I shall be sure that she keeps her distance

If you imagine a person who is an exact copy of me in some ways, but highly charged emotionally and who prefers a single line communication to a three page elaboration, you will have a vision of Shizuka and her power to shake things. My other soul mate, Yoshitsune, is a mix of us both. He neither reads posts nor communicates in writing (except in cases where the Teacher requires it)and he has psychic perfect pitch. An interesting, if frustrating, triquetra.

posted November 07, 2003 12:00 PM         

i have to bluntly ask if your friend is perhaps exaggerating a little bit about her ability to compete against other women. looking at her placements, she must surely have a powerful sexuality and be very attentive to her looks. she has leo rising, venus trine mars, and mars opposite jupiter. she also has mercury in sagittarius. hmm. her chart placements are comparatively more "sparkly" than her husband's.

posted November 07, 2003 12:54 PM         

Yes, it is very difficult to generalize because individual cases are always just that - individual. However, there are many underlying principles that have appeared to hold water over time. I think of them as a framework, which tends to stand true even though the details change with each circumstance.

The Hypostasis of the Archons is, in part, a retelling of the Adam and Eve story. It is, however, very different than the one we are used to hearing. To simplify it in the extreme, it indicates the time when humans made the leap from animal consciousness to God consciousness. The first person to reach this level was a woman (Eve, if you will). That is the part of what we know today as Genesis where she eats from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. In this version (which is an extremely old text), that activity was not the result of communication with an evil being. It was due more to communication with a higher consciousness. Thus she, in one leap, evolved spiritually beyond all others, and passed that evolved state on to her daughters and all women thereafter. The men around her (Adam) saw the change and were not pleased in the least. If you think of the Garden of Eden as the state of humanity prior to this enlightenment, it all makes sense. Early people were hunters and gatherers. They lived off the land in a relatively simple way and did not farm or labour and toil as mankind has done for the last 10,000 years. Once people became aware of the God conscioiusness within themselves, they changed. They were no longer content to simply exist. They began to seek understanding and transcendence. Thus they no longer lived in the simplicity of the Garden. It is hard to do any justice to the story and its implications in a forum, but that is the beginning of it. Women became aware first, so are on a slightly different path. As you said to Lanny, there are always individual differences. Also some people reach their potential while others take another path. It isn't that either men or women are better than the other. It is simply that they tend to have different obstacles from which to learn.

I asked if the teachings you were discussing were in writing somewhere because I recognised them. It seems like I have read something very similar, but perhaps I picked it up another way. It is a very interesting line of thought. Thank you for sharing it with us. Whether or not everyone agrees with all its implications, we can still learn a great deal from considering them.

posted November 07, 2003 04:51 PM         

It is a pleasure to meet and speak with you, I have found our exchanges stimulating. I was intrigued to know that there is in fact some remaining written reference to this Teaching. Of course, most is only preserved through the oral tradition of Teacher and Disciple but this was a refreshing change.

Since you seem quite familiar with the broad outlines of the Teaching, I will add some other aspects that you may also find enjoyable. As I have said before in other contexts, there is no reference or bibliography available for this information so it is, perhaps, only useful for curiosity purposes.

If you trace the etymological roots of the word “Adam” and “Eve”, Adam is pretty much the same in the semitic root form and it comes from the word for “clay” or “earth”. Eve however is originally from the word “hava” which means “air” or “atmosphere”. In an alternate creation story, it is said that God fashioned woman from a single aspect of clay (a rib) and the remainder is spirit. In this context, contemplation of the Yin Yang may also be helpful
_________________

In the Name of God.

The rest of this is directly from my Teacher (may he always be pleased with me) with only small bits of editing.

“Let us open this problem and remember that in the Epic of Creation humanity refused to submit to God and was undecided. But, man did have a critical view of his own action. He was not happy with his decision. In that act of self criticism humanity was given a chance to live on earth and buy liberation. Liberation begins once we admit to our sins. Then we can return to God.

The is was the hierarchical confrontation with Satan 1) Angels submitted to God 2) Animals redeemed themselves and gave submissions to God 3) Daemons stayed with Satan 4) Humans were undecided. Unlike the popular belief that human sin was from eating of the tree and disobeying, our real sin was not submitting to the will of God. If we can persuade our daemon to confess to our sin, in the test of the world our sins are shown. If you are persuaded to confess, then you will never fail. We do not present religion we present our submission to God.

__________

Later this evening, when time permits, I shall compose a fairly long piece which describes that which comes after the initial recognition between the male and female that their states and stations are inherently different. This is a continuation of the dynamic that culminates in the “completion” of the human being into a perfected state.

Peace and Blessings to you my sister Fish.

posted November 08, 2003 01:47 AM         

A few comments and then I will endeavor to summarize the Teaching of the Male and Female Archetypes.

First, you mentioned that many constructs and Teachings seem to exist in a complete or whole form inside you, prior to any reading or verbalization. There is an explanation for this, but it is quite complicated to communicate in a few, short paragraphs. The great mystic Ibn al-Arabi, the Greatest Master, has written about gifts and archetypes. Of course there are general archetypes (like the masculine and feminine) and there are specific archetypes. There are general gifts (consciousness) and specific gifts. Each human being is connected to one (or in some cases more) archetype(s) and one (or in some cases more) divine Name(s). The connection to the archetype and the connection to specific divine Names determine the gifts. Thus, when you touch your Name and/or archetype in any form, you will resonate and hear the melody that you soul was meant to play. Your gift is being offered. When you are in possession of your particular gift, and its form and substance is Known to you, your purpose and destiny are also Known to you. The mystery of you, for you, is revealed in all its glory and magnificence. Truly those are the Friends of God.

_________________

As I mentioned before, the point at which the female’s arrogance wanes and the male’s desire for the “other” increases, they will meet in harmony and love. But this is not the end, rather it is the beginning of the process of spiritual completion.

At the point that longing for the spirit of God lodges in the heart of a man, he will very quickly progress and begin stripping himself of the bondage of the ego (commanding self, base self). Reactionary energy will be focused on the freezing and immobilization of the ego. He will fight the greatest War ever fought by a human being. The War against the animal that is in Man. He will be in constant remembrance of the time when he was far from the Divine Spirit and will shudder at the thought returning to that winter of absence. He will engage in a devotion that is centered around self abasement.

At this same point, a female will have encountered several problems. First, although she has recognized her arrogance, because she has never actually been “absent” from her Lord, she does not “react” to her “sins” as powerfully as the male. There is little fuel behind her, and her desire to purify does not have the same force as that of the male. Thus, metaphorically speaking, what the man can purify in a few weeks may take the woman a few years. Secondly, the woman absolutely needs the man in the purification process (just as the man needed the woman in the initial process). She must probe his psyche and his experience of separation so that she can begin to see the magnitude of her own separation. She must see the white spot (aggression, active, illumination, separation) in her Yin and expand it so that it displaces all the black with white. Without the man’s assistance, this small speck of white aggression/separation will not be sufficient to overcome the inherent passivity of that quantity of black. Together, as they expand that speck of white in the woman, she too can experience the joy of abasing herself completely in the presence of her God.

In contrast to the woman’s need of a man, after the initial process, the man can continue on to spiritual completion with or without the female. He can use his aggression to force himself to become passive, receptive and submissive. A bit of an ontological problem may occur, but it will not necessarily prevent progress.

Of course completion occurs when the female has explored the Yang to the exclusion of the Yin and the man has explored the Yin to the exclusion of the Yang. The female is necessary to the male in the beginning, and the male is necessary to the female in the middle.

Now, if you accept these constructs, it is quite easy to understand many spiritual problems that are currently prevalent in society today. If the female artificially, and without spiritual training, takes on the masculine role(s), then she will feel a bit disorientated. This feeling is not likely to be pronounced since, being the black and receptive, she will “accommodate” her surroundings and be tolerant of her own spiritual destruction. If the male artificially, and without spiritual training, takes on the feminine role, then he may fail to master his ego in its early form. Without the aggressive energy, he will not win the War. Of course there are many other consequential interrelationships between the male and female who have abdicated their respective roles in the process, but I have noted the dynamic sufficiently for you to extrapolate. Conversely, you should be able to extrapolate and perfectly imagine a relationship in which the roles are perfectly executed.

Again, it has been a pleasure. May you find refuge and a Path for your Journey.

posted November 08, 2003 05:17 AM         

Aphrodite you are correct all the way. In fact, I can't even believe that she is in this situation. She has always been the one to give me advice. She waited until her children had gone through school and she was set financially before even considering dating again after her first really bad marriage ended at a young age. She is the last one that would put up with any sort of
nonsense.

She hadn't been able to let me know what was really going on until she had her computer repaired, then she sent a series of emails.

Meile, all of what you have to say looks really interesting and it seems to have caused a lot of attention but I really need someone to translate it into regular people speak. Fish, maybe you could help me out.

I think that basically you are saying men are above women and we should be able to forgive them if they cheat. I learned from my first marriage that when I forgave my ex for bad behaviors he would repeat them, I would forgive him, and so on...so basically I was teaching him to treat me badly by rewarding him with forgiveness.

Also, what about, as it is in this case that my friend, and NOT her husband owns all of the assets and pays all of the bills. He is in her home. Wouldn't that somehow put him above her anyway? As far as being permiscuous, she has not been. If you are actually talking about what is wrong with society as a whole, that's not going to help me figure out how to help her right here and right now.

I had a partner that was cheating and I did forgive him. The feelings that I had while trying to learn to trust him again, are probably similar to what she is feeling.
It wasn't jealousy. It was actually feelings of inadequacy and being unsure about my future. He did do it again, two years later.
During those two years we spent tons of time together and he really helped me to overcome my feelings of inadequacy and learning to trust him again. So when he did it the second time I was even more hopelessly in love with him The hurt was even worse and of course I forgave him again. It's hopeless now. He's actually been taught through positive reinforcement to treat me badly.

I can't offer her advice fairly. I want to go over there and throw him out of her house myself. *s*

That is why I came here.

Here is a bit more information (part of her emails)
..."from the beginning i was told that he would cheat on me, he told me. he has cheated on every woman he was in a relationship with. or so his live in g/f told me when i found out about her and she found out about me.

i have told him that i am just waiting for him to do it. i am watching him every moment just waiting for it to happen. he claims that he is not doin anything wrong.
he even told me once that if and when he cheated he would do it with his daughters mother. i HAVE told him how i feel. I have told him to get out, i have i have i have."

She then explains to me how she went to the doctor and found out that she has VD..some type of herpes that she can never get rid of completely, she goes on to say...

..." since i dont feel i can start over with anyone else, like to make this work. i would like to think that he wants me, but lately he cant even complete a sexual act with me, he loses his erection. that certainly makes me feel like i am not wanted or desired.
I dont know how else to explain this situation to you. it is not good, it is not fun, and it sure as hell is not working. i dont know how to get out of it.and to think, i was the strong one..."

Ok, so, any other ideas?

My experience with cheating in the past was with a Gemini, my new guy is a Gemini as well, same story. Is there someway to get to these men that can keep them focused??

Thanks.