posted November 08, 2003 05:25 AM         

Affairs are not one night stands. Cheating can be a one night stand, a short lived infraction, or a habit. In either case, cheating or affair, the result is a show of disrespect for one's partner.

Infidelity can occur for many reasons. Boredom, unfulfilled psyche issues, addiction, revenge, emotional insecurity (immaturity ), and poor judgment during times of inhibition, to name a few. Affairs usually begin with emotional bonding, then proceed to physical intimacy.

Affairs of the heart usually start as friendships, progress to emotionally connected, then develop a chemistry. Somewhere between friendship and emotionally connected, something dangerous occurs and the individuals develop a common bond. It can be a common bond of dissatisfaction at home or with their significant other. The individuals involved somehow find a common thread in which they can share discussions, listening, problem solving.

In most cases, when the individuals are of the opposite sex, and involved with other people, this starts a recipe for an affair. As the friendship bond progresses and strengthens, a potential progression of this bonding brings with it the danger of progressing physical intimacy. If either of the individuals involved are experiencing home based relationship issues which are causing dissatisfaction, then the risk of affair is higher.

The damage of an affair?

The most damaging part of an affair is that which is experienced by the person that was victimized by the cheating. If your are a spouse or significant other that has been on the receiving end of infidelity, then the most damaging part of this situation is the lack of self trust.

Most persons are able to come to grips with the infraction, however, resolving the potential of possible future infractions is where most people have damaging psychological effects. The internal conflict that arises is "How can a person, the victim, that has shown poor character analysis, trust themselves not to engage in another future relationship that will end the same way?" This lack of self trust often plays itself out in "control" issues, especially in first relationship that occurs immediately following a failed relationship.

Can couples recover from an affair?

First the question of why the person cheated needs to be answered? If the cheating is part of a sexual addiction, recovery is difficult. People also need to recognize the health dangers of this behavior. Some couples are known to have agreements that condone multiple sexual partners.

This raises the question about why they are a committed couple in the first place. Some couples proceed through life "trolling" while others like to "chum" for sharks. In either case these behaviors not only carry a health risk, but they also carry the risk of a chemical bond being created with another person. Studies on brain chemistry and hormonal responses support the notion that the early courtship period, years 1-3, are bolstered with the ignition of heated biochemical reactions. These reactions, much like the brain's response to chocolate, create a biochemical glue that supports a couple's early years.

After several years, the relationship needs more than just chemistry to survive. If no mutual respect has developed, or the relationship doesn't have any other dimensions, the relationship will most likely fail. Without a strong respect and common ground, then no "glue" exists, except common history, to hold the relationship together while work is done to repair it. And be assured this repair takes focus and hard work.

However, if a person has an addiction to the biochemical reactions, then it is a good bet that further acts of cheating will follow. Recovering a relationship from infidelity, or simply recovering from being victimized by a cheater takes time. If a couple decides to repair their relationship then the single most important thing to focus on is a persons actions. If a person has been cheated on, and they are willing to move past it and repair the relationship, then the real test of a person is their credibility.
Credibility never developed out of talking. It only develops out of actions that support one's verbal intentions. If the cheater is unable to overcompensate for a period of time, by being overly accountable for their actions, then the credibility that is necessary to repair the broken trust will not develop. Without this trust, no respect develops, and the "glue" necessary fails to lend itself to the repair of the relationship.

(PS...Aphrodite, you left me waiting on that reading in the Parents thread...;0)

posted November 08, 2003 06:29 AM         

I do not have the answers but I think there seems to be a problem when the lady is convinced her partner will cheat. I think there is also a problem when the husband says 'if i did cheat, it will be with my childrens mother'. I don't seem to understand why people don't ask these questions BEFORE marriage. I do realise some marriages legitimatley fail and can not be reconciled but this scenario (to me) appears rather ...??

Maybe I should not be offering advice. I have never married. As far as affairs are concerned I think most of the people I know who have had affairs have done so purely out of sexual desire. Either the woman or man had an urge, a need fulfilled and then had to deal with their guilt, lack of guilt, confronting what they had done or hiding it.

I think the main thing is asking yourself whether the pleasure is worth risking the time, devotion and trust you have already built with someone else (The guilt would tear ME apart, but thats just me).

To be perfectly honest (and I hope I don't offend) I'd tell your friend to connect right foot with husbands behind and send him on his way (to his childrens mother). She can do that.

*I would just like to say I enjoy everyones posts and I can't really comment on the other stuff. I didnot have much of an education and I do not really understand it, I'm not ignoring it, I do like to read and contemplate it.

With Love - Majenta

posted November 08, 2003 07:30 AM         

I used to think she was deranged but now I see she is only blunt. Fire/Earth Venus signs are blunt and to the point about their physical needs. They need love, they need sex, if you are not going to make him or her feel loved, and wanted then they will be angry. They will not go find someone else, they want you to MOVE OVER emotionally and wake up to smell the coffee. Leave or get angry, get motivated do something. Fire signs are not subtle. The good news is Aries moods are fickle and he may come back if it's just a wake-up call. Fire signs are not usually interested in games.

They will wake you up a little but most prefer a safe world where they have someone to love all the time, they do not jump out willingly.

In fact most fire signs I know push the other one to cheat, they do not cheat unless they are pushed. With your friend's Leo rising she is pushy and bossy and may be flirty. That may be what drove him? Just assuming. I have a Sag rising and was flirty around an Aries, he was OUT OF THERE.

Aries need respect because they don't get much. They have huge hearts. If you don't want to be there, you have to leave or else you will cause pain. There are always two sides to a story, two sides to a coin as it says in THE BIBLE.
So everyone deserves forgiveness, yes EVERYONE.

With that Leo rising she will be exceptionally punishing and cold. I do not see a resolution.

A virgo I know forgave his cancer wife for cheating of him with a man on the internet. But he's a Virgo with a Cancer rising, and they have three children. But if her affair had been physical and no children, he may have taken her back anyway. She on the other hand was saying wake up and look at me, I want to have my own life. I knew it was going to happen.

The question is not why do people have affairs but what does it mean and how do we move past that? If you can't then get out, why are you there just to punish the other person? If your friend cannot move past it in her heart and can't see moving past it right away, she needs to let go.

posted November 08, 2003 11:25 AM         

My friend Meili has been of invaluable assistance to this Seeker along the Path, and so her insight will not be picked apart by me anytime soon. I would however suggest that she has chosen the wrong numbers to represent the male and the female evolutionary stages. Both male and female human beings begin at the number 6, and the quest is to move from 6 to 7..from material to that of spiritual (wo)man. However between these two levels, there are an infinite number of evolutions which can be distinctly broken into 10 levels. These levels begin at 0 and end with 9, which is the perfect unity of masculine and feminine qualities that Meili speaks of.

At first glance, 0 would appear to be somewhere beneath 1, but in fact, 0 is the Alpha, it is closer to God than is 1. It is the state of perfect potential unrealized.

This is the beginning point for woman, who had but to step further into her feminine nature to reach 9, but who instead, is drawn into the realm of 1, 2, 3 and 4 during upbringing in a patriarchal society.

Man, as Meili has said, normally begins at 1 and has a long, hard struggle ahead of him. It is an unfortunate, byproduct of upbringing that brings woman into this struggle, but then again, without woman and the feminine qualities in her, the progress along the path of man's evolution would be excruciatingly slow. Thus man has, consciously or unconsciously drawn woman up from her natural 0 state due to his NEED of that which she possesses.

At the same time, the masculine ego demands that he hide his need for her behind the trappings of a patriarchal society. Man's ego would deny his dependence on woman for his spiritual survival, by pointing to her supposed dependence on the male of the species for material survival.

Other than that slight elaboration and minor correction, Meili has hit the proverbial nail square on the head. Oh, and for you guys that would disagree based merely on the gender of the writer, I am a proud and quite masculine member of the male sex. Thank God for a Libran Sun and a Cancer Moon. The burden along my spiritual path has been less to lift and easier to bear.

Thank you Lord!

posted November 08, 2003 12:32 PM         

Your evaluation not only makes sense to me, but it actually pretty much hits the nail right on the head. She is all of those things that you say. That is why I couldn't understand why she would be in this position.

I hope you come back, I really would like to hear what you say about my other situation which actually right now is more pressing to my soul but perhaps less of a betrayal or indescretion (involves several repeated indescretions over a period of 4 years and ones that have been confined to the internet).

Please...if you can, or anyone else, can anyone offer advice similar to what she has about the other situation. If so, thank you.

ME:

PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Libra 27°05'43 10
Moon Pisces 14°14'47 03
Mercury Scorpio 01°41'21 10
Venus Libra 03°14'09 09
Mars Scorpio 12°57'02 11
Jupiter Capricorn 28°29'31 02
Saturn Capricorn 23°40'14 01/2
Uranus Leo 29°34'30 08
Neptune Scorpio 10°31'44 11
Pluto Virgo 09°25'34 09
True Node Leo 25°22'41 08

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Sagittarius 20°34'04
2nd House Capricorn 25°25'01
3rd House Pisces 04°23'22
Imum Coeli Aries 09°36'12
5th House Taurus 07°30'08
6th House Gemini 00°05'55
Descendant Gemini 20°34'04
8th House Cancer 25°25'01
9th House Virgo 04°23'22
Medium Coeli Libra 09°36'12
11th House Scorpio 07°30'08
12th House Sagittarius 00°05'55

HE:
PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Gemini 18°33'32 10
Moon Taurus 06°18'41 09
Mercury Cancer 09°29'26 10/11
Venus Taurus 03°16'39 09
Mars Leo 18°49'23 12
Jupiter Aquarius 06°48'19 05
Saturn Capricorn 29°06'23 05
Uranus Leo 22°24'01 12
Neptune Scorpio 08°57'54 03
Pluto Virgo 05°40'33 12
True Node Virgo 00°11'13 12

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Virgo 09°38'44
2nd House Libra 03°34'21
3rd House Scorpio 02°35'20
Imum Coeli Sagittarius 06°00'05
5th House Capricorn 10°32'19
6th House Aquarius 12°11'25
Descendant Pisces 09°38'44
8th House Aries 03°34'21
9th House Taurus 02°35'20
Medium Coeli Gemini 06°00'05
11th House Cancer 10°32'19
12th House Leo 12°11'25

Composite Horoscope midpoint method
PLANETARY POSITIONS
planet sign degree house
Sun Leo 22°49'37 10
Moon Aries 10°16'44 06
Mercury Virgo 05°35'23 10
Venus Cancer 18°15'24 09
Mars Libra 00°53'13 11
Jupiter Aquarius 02°38'55 03
Saturn Capricorn 26°23'18 03
Uranus Leo 25°59'16 10
Neptune Scorpio 09°44'49 01
Pluto Virgo 07°33'04 10/11
Pluto is technically near the end of house 10 and is interpreted in house
11.
True Node Leo 27°46'57 10

HOUSE POSITIONS (Placidus)
Ascendant Scorpio 00°06'24
2nd House Scorpio 29°29'41
3rd House Capricorn 03°29'21
Imum Coeli Aquarius 07°48'08
5th House Pisces 09°01'14
6th House Aries 06°08'40
Descendant Taurus 00°06'24
8th House Taurus 29°29'41
9th House Cancer 03°29'21
Medium Coeli Leo 07°48'08
11th House Virgo 09°01'14
12th House Libra 06°08'40

I'm telling you, ladies, it really sucks when the reality monster takes a big 'ol bite right out of the seat of your happiness pants.

For some reason, I'm never even aware of the fact that he might be coming around for a visit.

posted November 08, 2003 04:43 PM         

There is a geisha-master pattern that seems to repeat itself between the Piscean female and Taurean male in relationships. I've noticed this both in those of Sun and Moon and combinations of one or the other.

The Gemini Sun/Taurean Moon is likely going to give the HE in this relationship an agressive pursuit and possessive retention instinct. Perhaps, this is best described as, "once it's mine it's mine and although I will find another conquest to conquer, what's mine is still mine." Neither Gem nor Taurus will accept infringements upon freedom, but Taurus possessive nature will probably attempt to impose those restrictions at some level.

On the SHE side, the imposition will likely be uncomfortably put up with at some level. Pisces Moon aims to please, even if the in-your-face "that's not fair" reaction of Libran Sun will be to resist domination, Piscean Moon will often kick in to talk Libran sense of fair play and tendency to "see it from the other guy's perspective" into caving in for the sake of harmony. Neither Pisces Moon, nor Libra Sun will stand much loud raucus fighting, and both will tend to appease or run away rather than confront if faced with a bruhaha. Often this goes on until its too late and the restriction becomes unbearable...then it's likely out the door without a word.

Ok so that's just a guess.

The hardest part of the Pisces Moon/Libran Sun combination, from my observations is the need to communicate combined with the irritating tendency to be easily interrupted. Many Pisces Moon folk resent that when someone starts talking, for some reason they clam up and listen, even if they don't feel like listening. They often spend years with this bottled up inside, releasing it only occasionally with a few friends, quite often individuals with strong Piscean influences in their natals.

There's the amateur spiel, based only on Moon and Sun. I would've broken out Solarfire, but it's Saturday.

Sorry, experts...I'll shut up now.

Good luck with your challenge love,

posted November 08, 2003 06:37 PM         

Dafremen, you are very astute. I can see that you have spent some time on esoteric teachings. I look forward to learning more.

Meili -

The way you described the male/female relationship to the infinite makes total sense to me. The dichotomy of the Yin and Yang in the world around us and the world within us resonates and insists that we solve the mysteries suggested by the unification of the two (which are not really seperate at all) into a perfect whole. One small pebble in the stream can create waves that grow ever larger as they travel through our lives.

I also understand about archtypes and gifts. One can definitely tell if the soul is on the path chosen for it (and by it). The melody comes quite naturally. When we stray, the music becomes discordant and uncomfortable. I know some things about Divine Names, but I would like to know more. One of my gifts seems to be knowing some things without having yet encountered the teachings. I think that may be so because my path through esoteric teachings has been primarily solitary. As you have said, many things are not written, but tend to be passed from teacher to student. Sometimes the universe has to take on the role of teacher in order for the student to receive the lessons at the right moment in his or her life. I would like to discuss these things in more detail, but perhaps we should not take the space on this thread. If you have the time and inclination to discuss further teachings, perhaps we should create a thread for that purpose.

Thank you once again for sharing your knowledge. And thank you for wishing me refuge and a path. Once we begin to seek the infinite, we never stop. I guess that's what infinite is all about.

posted November 08, 2003 06:44 PM         

Sometimes the Spirit moves and, when we allow it to, surprises those whom it resides in most of all.

Daf

posted November 08, 2003 09:28 PM         

If your Gemini feels that way then it's not good for you. You have to ask yourself, look at the emotions in your psyche and accept them. Your emotions do not suck, they are there for a reason and they are telling you something, more than you think. It's up to you to use that knowledge. They are not all bad and this could be a lesson. There is bad and good in every experience first of all.

Ask yourself what are these views and opinions that you are holding on to for dear life. Focus on what you want and then expand what you are willing to live with, look at the deal breakers. It's a good idea to think about what you would do if you had to leave the Gemini, ask yourself why you are holding on. What will you miss. It's not what you feel it's what you DON"T feel. What is missing here, you have to ask yourself and focus.

If it's not enough it's because you could be in denial, you could actually be in pain and you don't know it. Numbness is a kind of pain too.

Loneliness is a human condition not caused by pain but by having nothing at all, if there isn't any pain, or pleasure but you are holding on that isn't healthy. Ask yourself what is missing.

I heard something lately that was a little extreme but I will repeat it. Loneliness is a condition where you attach yourself to anyone who shows the slightest bit of interest in you. Geminis can make you feel that way especially if they are spending zero time at home and all their time on the road, at the office, or in a plane. Sure the job's important but so what. My Take: Tell him to get his butt home. See what he does then, if you don't feel something happening, a transformation of some kind, leave. He will never leave, because he doesn't need more, you do. It's your problem, not his. He doesn't need more, maybe he wants less, but how can you live with less than that.

He has to see this coming, so he has probably justified a course of action already. He may even have a plan, ask him.

posted November 08, 2003 09:36 PM         

First, my apologies to firestar as well. I do tend to become sidetracked. What I shall act like in my dotage is frightening to contemplate!

Friend Daf, I stand corrected in the face of your refined elaboration. You have drawn a distinction that is quite lovely to behold and hones the accuracy of the transmission. Please jump in any time you feel an urge.

FishKitten, I would be happy to open a new thread on any subject you wish. Or, as some other Friends have done, you may email me at oriontriquetra@yahoo.com My apologies to Randall who prefers that we not post emails, but I will risk the possiblity of trash mail. For others who had my old email, please feel free to note this new one and stop by and say hello.

Peace and Blessings.
Meili

posted November 09, 2003 09:34 AM         

Thanks for all of your responses.

This stuff always amazes me. Without giving hardly any detail concerning my situation, unbelievably what I need to help me figure out this problem is right here. I am having a hard time understanding some of the things you say,
Daf, and Nat...so if you would, I am going to sort of sum things up, let me know if it sounds right.

The situation as I stated above briefly is that my live in boyfriend, whom I met on the internet. We actually got to know one over the telephone. He likes to play around with other women on the internet. The issue first came up not too long after he first arrived here. He actually didn't have a computer before so it was a whole new experience for him. I discovered through things I found on my computer that he was having relationships with women he was meeting. The relationships have been of both sexual and romantic natures. The pattern is that he meets someone, talks to her until either they get too pushy, too close for comfort, or until I find out. He then, quits talking to them. This of course hurts them. I do believe in my heart that he is doing it as a source of entertainment.

he first year and a half, we fought about it every time I discovered a new relationship. I was not happy about the amount of time he was spending online. I thought it was totally wrong for him to put anyone into a position to be hurt.
I know that in MOST cases, the women were perfectly aware that it was supposed to remain as only a cyber relationship, however, from tons of experience, I also know how carried away people get...emotions run high, and then who knows...

So, I got tired of it and told him he had to leave. I knew in my heart I did not want that. I left for a few days, I hated being without him...when I came home it was obvious how upset he'd been as well.

We talked about it...he promised all sorts of changes, that addition he would spend more time with me, and that he wouldn't do it anymore. That was about 2 1/2 years ago. 5 days ago I then discovered that he was doing it again. I am surprised I even could detect it, nothing now is as it was then. We spend plenty of time together, takes care of his responsibilties...all semed wonderful, but, I picked up on some of the old signs.
It was just a suspision, but...I check up, and sure enough.

Over the passed two and a half years, our relationship has developed into the relationship I had only dreamed about.

My last relationship was with a Scorp man, it was hell. I was afraid that if I stood up against him or made him angry in any way, he would leave me. I finally got sick inside from the conflicts and his negative attitude. They were too much for me to handle. One day, after 22 years, I snapped. That was it. I was done.

With this new relationship, I have found a new sense of comfort and security. I feel very loved and I am in love. I am not afraid to share anything with him, good, bad, mad, sad...anythiing at all. It feels really good to stand up for myself, And I do.

I have applied most of what you've written to my situation in an attempt to work things out.
Everything you both said about Libra/Pisces and Gemini/Taurus in our relationship rings true. That is if I understand it correctly.

He does feel that he has to be careful of what he says and does as far as what goes on concerning the computer and anything for that matter when we are fighting about the cyber issue.

He definitely feels that "what's mine is mine and no one can take it away", thing about his computer. Now that it is an issue again, he decided himself to disconnect it. Of course, the Pisces/Libra thing, the pleasing, that's not fair, try to see things his way mix takes over and convinces him to turn it back on. I know that he enjoys being online. My needs are being met and he is fulfilling his obligations. Our relationship has flourished over the past two years, and I am truly in love with him and feel loved by him. So, I guess this is where I need to figure out what my views and opinions are, how important they are to me, and decide if this is something I can live with...or do I need to move on.
If I left him, what I would miss. What things do I NOT feel? What things can or can't I accept. Also try and determine if something is missing.

Well, without much hesitation or deep thought I can answer all of this easily.

He is the most wonderful person I've met in my life. I can do or say anything I want with him and feel totally comfortable doing so. He shows that he loves me in many, many ways. He takes care of me. He worries about me. If I am overworked, he helps me with my work. We read relationship books together and try to work on our communication skills.
Even when we used to fight about the internet, the fighting seemed to be right.
He would let me yell and scream, talk and talk until I couldn't talk anymore. Humor me by trying to help search for the reason that he just can't seem to help himself with this issue. He and my son have a beautiful love relationship, it is very deep and touching...my son respects him and if the occasion arises where there has been conflict, or discipline, everything went smoothly. So, what do I not feel? I do not feel lonely. I do not feel neglected. I do not feel frightened, I do not feel afraid to be myself. I do not feel ignored. I do not feel unimportant.
If I left him, what would I miss? I would miss his beautiful, kind, sensitive, loving heart...and the friendship we have.

So, we are left with...the emotions I do have when this internet thing occurs, what, if any limits should I try to impose and what if anything am I willing to accept.

Of course, my initial reaction is as you said...To tell him to get off his butt. I have done that, and he has. As for pulling the plug on his computer. I feel that he has to make the right decision. He KNOWS how I feel, He KNOWS in his heart what is right. He will make the choice. Then his behavior in any case will determine the out come.

The emotions I have concerning him spending time talking to other women seem to vary, but mostly I feel very hurt and disrespected.

I would much rather him talk to other women about sex than share sentiments.
I know that men don't think or feel the same way about love that women do, but it hurts me, I don't understand how he could love me so much, yet still have a need for this. It seems so silly to me, it's a waste of time.
The woman I found out he was talking to this time is far from being the sharpest knife in the drawer. He just must like the thrill of the chase, and the ability to "get" them with his written word. I can rationalize most of it except how this kind, loving, caring, beautiful soul...who would generally never hurt a fly, can continue to repeat this behavior, knowingly hurting me and others.
It bothers me that while involved in this he hides things from me, lies to me, and disrespects me.
He INSISTS that I am the love of his life and that he would NEVER actually fall for one of these women. I am wise enough to know that each time he meets a new one...another door is open to the possiblity. THAT is what bothers me.......So, what do I do?

I am a busy woman. I am out working and taking care of business often. When it was happening before, it was a HUGE problem for me. I hurried about, rushing through everything, so I could hurry home see what he was doing and wait for any opportunity to check his computer. I drove myself nuts.

I've not had to be away from yet, this time. I don't know how I will feel.

He promises, once again, to refrain...he wants to build the trust...I don't want to make him turn it off. I know in my heart that he is not ready to pull the chord himself.

This is what I think will happen. As I did in my previous marriage I will continue to deal with whatever pain this causes me.

All that is good in this relationship greatly outweighs this issue. If I can find a way to get past it or accept it so it doesn't cause me pain, this might be a fair trade off.

If not, I will take it until I've had enough and then....adios, it's done.

Thanks, for helping..I always feel better when I write, it helps me to sort things out. I always feel better, even if no one reads.

posted November 09, 2003 10:33 AM         

Reminds me of a story I told once:

"He's like this", the young woman complained, "and I just don't like it."

"Then you don't like him?"

"No, I like him fine, I just don't like THIS about him."

"Then you would change it?"

"Yes. If it's possible I would."

"And if it's impossible?"

"Well, then, I don't know what I'll do."

"Then you should probably start considering what you will do, because it's impossible."

"Huh?"

"You cannot change anyone but the one that resides in you, and then only your perspective."

posted November 09, 2003 03:20 PM         

I am trying to work through the other, however. He tells me constantly that there is no way he would leave me because he found what he wants and that he is in love with me. I don't doubt his word. I know, however, with each new woman he meets online (which, of course he has said he's not going to do anymore...again)a new door of opportunity opens.

And yes, I think I have to change my perspective....but how do you do that?

Bewitched!!! Hi there. I have been sharing all of these messages with my Gem..He really got a big kick out of yours. LOL...if you only knew. I hear everyone say how chatty Gems are, etc. Well, I am an even Chattier Libra. I am continuously analyzing things.
Especially things like this.

When we met, we actually used the telephone instead of the internet to get to know each other. We met in March 23...He moved here July 1 that same year. During that time, he called me every morning before work, every day at lunch, with the exception of ONLY 1 day. At night, we would spend almost the entire evening on the phone. Our phone bills were outrageous. By the time he moved out here there really wasn't much we didn't know about each other.

Believe me, darlin'...I communicate. From the moment I get up in the morning, until the second my head hits the pillow, I communicate. I read him books...the other night we went through some of Men are from Mars... Oh, and I don't just read, we go through slowly and discuss the issues. The same with Astrology, and tons of other books, mags, etc. I love the book of questions. We work together and spend at least two hours, some days as many as 8, driving around in the car. We communicate.
Actually, if I am for some reason quiet for any length of time (which doesn't happen too often) then he knows ther is a problem.

That is another thing about this man that I love. I can talk to him about anything. There isn't a thing in this world that I could not say to him. I told him this morning that him hiding stuff like that from me (the women online) isn't cool, because we have promised to always share everything.

I have had the opportunity to see tons of logs of his conversations with these women, he hardly talks...I think that is why they like him so much, because he listens to them,
Well...at least they ~think~ he's listening..he pretty much multi-tasks constantly. *l*

So, he at least finally admitted that he does feel ~something~ when he chats with them...he said he doesn't know what it is.

It can't be soley for the chase, there have been women that he's stayed with quite a while after they've been caught. We are pretty active..well, a little more than that even...sexually. He tried to tell me that this recent thing was about sex. I doubted him thinking he was saying it only because that was what I wanted to hear. If it would have been only sex from the beginning, I wouldn't have had a problem with that, as long as I'm gettin' mine. I used to tell him that. What hurt me, and what I didn't like was when they would call each other "Baby"...and say "I love you"

I am Baby....I thought that cheapened me.

We are very intimate, both of us are very vocal that way as well.

Thank you for responding. I feel like with each presented idea, I am coming closer to resolving this issue.

posted November 09, 2003 07:04 PM         

Plus great sex is pretty common with friends who are close and trust eachother. But you are not questioning that part of the relationship are you? Are you asking him about your sex life? Is he bringing up your sex life? If you had a problem with his finances would you say it's okay because at least you both have good sex? It has nothing to do with him cheating. Cheating has nothing to do with the needs he's not fulfilling through you, and you have nothing to do with it.

There are thousands of men addicted to online chat groups and most do not touch these women ever. But they do sometimes spend tens of thousands of dollars on chat rooms and eventually other sorts of entertainment online which is available. Would that bother you? What if he spent two hours calling a girl in London who he could never see, but agreed with her plans to move in with him. Do you think she would show up on your doorstep if you two lived together?

If she was like that, yes she would. And he couldn't use the excuse that he didn't know..because he was on the other end of the phone. Women take these relationships very seriously, because there is no sex involved. One could very well, talk him into a physical relationship, even a commited one. he may agree out of guilt or shame, and there is nothing you can do about that ever.

One friend of mine has a husband who met a girl online and would spend hours with her in person laying in bed next to her saying I love you and massaging her. There was no sex, is that okay? She is letting it slide because he says it's not about sex, and it won't happen again. Do you have any idea how common this problem is? Men can fantasize about love and romance as much as women and the only cure is he has to let go of the computer and that's it.

He needs to unplug and tune in to the world around, not just you. If he has a computer at work fine, but he doesn't need it after work. He can take a break. I would be suspicious if he comes up with more excuses. He sounds like he is controlling this situation and that's not what you want. A relationship is about an equal exchange. he is not giving up a thing, he gets you and he gets to have his fun too.

He sounds like a love addict and a computer chat addict and intimacy is destroyed over time. There is no intimacy without monogamy, and he is not monogamous. He has to participate in activites that promote the general good of the relationship, and he is not giving up any ground.

"sex and love addiction is an illness, a progressive illness which cannot be cured but which like many illnesses, can be arrested. It may take several forms - including (but not limited to) a compulsive need for sex, extreme dependency on one person (or many) and/or a chronic preoccupation with romance, intrigue, or fantasy. An obsessive/compulsive pattern, either sexual or emotional (or both) exists in which relationships or sexual activities have become increasingly destructive to career, family and sense of self-respect. Sex and love addiction always leads to worse and worse consequences if it continues unchecked."

Characteristics of Sex and Love Addiction

1. Having few healthy boundaries, we become sexually involved with
and/or emotionally attached to people without knowing them.

2. Fearing abandonment and loneliness, we stay in and return to painful,
destructive relationships, concealing our dependency needs from
ourselves and others, growing more isolated and alienated from friends
and loved ones, ourselves, and God.

3. Fearing emotional and/or sexual deprivation, we compulsively pursue
and involve ourselves in one relationship after another, sometimes
having more than one sexual or emotional liaison at a time.

4. We confuse love with neediness, physical and sexual attraction, pity
and/or the need to rescue or be rescued.

5. We feel empty and incomplete when we are alone. Even though we fear
intimacy and commitment, we continually search for relationships and
sexual contacts.

6. We sexualize stress, guilt, loneliness, anger, shame, fear and envy. We
use sex or emotional dependence as substitutes for nurturing, care,
and support.

7. We use sex and emotional involvement to manipulate and control
others.

8. We become immobilized or seriously distracted by romantic or sexual
obsessions or fantasies.

9. We avoid responsibility for ourselves by attaching ourselves to people
who are emotionally unavailable.

10. We stay enslaved to emotional dependency, romantic intrigue, or
compulsive sexual activities.

11. To avoid feeling vulnerable, we may retreat from all intimate
involvement, mistaking sexual and emotional anorexia for recovery.

12. We assign magical qualities to others. We idealize and pursue them,
then blame them for not fulfilling our fantasies and expectations.

Any way,
take a look at these sites
http://www.sexualrecovery.com/resources/articles/cyberfaq.php
http://www.chatcheaters.com/addicted-to-porn.html http://www.askheartbeat.com/html/body_faq27.html
http://open-mind.org/Sex-Love.htm
http://www.drirene.com/hot_and_cold_love_addicts.htm
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/astarttorecovery/

Natasha
Taurus/6th house Sun
BTW I have dated Geminis and they were shy but not all Geminis cheat, what ever his reasons are they have to come out.

posted November 11, 2003 12:28 PM         

Thank you so much for replying. I was hoping you could tell me more....about anything and everything, if you would, please.
I saw your email addy on another thread and I will email you when time permits.

I like your direct way of speaking.

Also...If I am correct, we both have Asc Sag.

I thought maybe you could give me some information on that.

I agreed with your analysis. There is a reason and we have been working on figuring out what the problem is. So thank you!