posted January 13, 2004 04:29 PM         

you must have been reading my mind b/c i didn't want to say anything unless you were open.

i wrote this on hook's thread too, knowing that i would die if i stayed in the situation i was in . . . was the impetus to leave. not dying in the literal sense, (may be it is, another topic), but knowing i am the one who was responsible for letting a part of myself die in order to stay for whatever justifications i made.

i felt the same as you do now, lonely, unloved, not satisfied, long-distance issues, personal lifestyles that clashed, money, etc. i stayed for three years with justifications not unlike the ones you are writing about.

one day i told myself, i didn't want to die anymore. when i look back at pictures from those times, it was so obvious the toll the stress was taking out on my body and posture. i didn't feel beautiful anymore. i had lost my glow. i left him.

twice.

and never looked back. i can't tell you how hard i prayed to the Universe. how much soul work i did to reach down and clean up my life to make it how i wanted it to be.

i can't tell you how many nights i stayed up alone crying to myself, because it was my own fault for staying that long. for wanting to be right, for wanting to make everything work out.

posted January 13, 2004 04:32 PM         

Yeah, it is taking a toll on me and how I feel about myself. It's definately not good for my self esteem. He has so many things about him that I love...except the way he expresses love. I mean on a day-to-day basis, the little things. The non-verbal kind. He really doesn't at all. He doesn't seem to need to see me frequently in order to have a relationship with me. I don't get that.

I'm sorry you had such a bleak period, Aphrodite. I'm glad you broke free. What Saturn aspects did you have with him?

posted January 13, 2004 04:47 PM         

I also purchased a relationship report from an Astrologer who said the charts theoretically were positive. This was about two and a half years after my Ex and I begain dating.

posted January 13, 2004 05:21 PM         

It's weird because we talk on the phone each day while we're both at work, and every evening around 10:00pm. And we talk as though we're a bonified couple. We talk about the future, where we're going to move to, what we want in our house that we're going to buy or build together (eventually), and just small things that couples talk about...He has no inkling that I've been spending time with the ex, or that I'm not thriving in this relationship, or just how frustrated I feel about it all. I put on a brave face, and just act happy. I've told him before that this isnt' working for me, but there's nothing he can do about it anytime soon, so who's fault is it? I guess he figures a 'weekends only' relationship is better than no relationship, and he figures that I should feel that way too.

posted January 13, 2004 06:00 PM         

Maybe I need a better psychic.

posted January 13, 2004 06:26 PM         

Wow, Lioneye, you do remind of where I was. Do you know when my ex knew it was finally over and unfair to keep me? When he called one time when I was on the road two years ago. I had some friends over in my suite and I was laughing. He said "Shawnee, I haven't heard you laugh like that in so long".

I cried so much for him. I wanted him to love me, but he couldn't, not in a way that was acceptable to me. There are still so many things I love and admire about him, but not enough to go through it. Amy is right about the dying part. I look at pics from those times and I didn't have my usual glow. When I decided to leave, that is when I began to change again and people began to comment 'Wow, what are you doing, you look great!" It was because my spirit was back.

The guy I am with now reinforces my strength of my spirit, where I felt it being drawn out with my ex. Who knows what will happen. Maybe it won't work out between us, sometimes the distance is hard for me, but I will break it off it gets to be too much or if I don't move out there.

posted January 13, 2004 11:31 PM         

Yeah, well that's sort of the plan. We move in together on an acreage, a different one though, that's not so far out because my kid is a teeny bopper and she needs to have friends nearby. Even more so because she's an only child. But I'm hesitant about living on an acreage, for various reasons. The lack of convenience, the commute on snowy icy highways, the high-maintenance kid who has Saggie rising and loses her mind when she's bored...etc. So it would be a pretty serious compromise on my part, but that's the only way it could happen because he's told me countless times that he "just can't live in the city again".

That's part of my dilemma. Is the relationship worth making that big of a compromise for? Would it be rewarding enough to take that leap of faith?

posted January 14, 2004 10:40 AM         

If I was in your position, I would have the exact same questions and reservations. I think that it is a good thing that if you to make that committment it will be on "new land". That prevents the old "This is MY house" issue. (I hate that). So, that issue is out of the way. Now, what about talking to your daughter about the move? What does she think about living in the country? What about animals, hiking, exploring. ( As a Sag sun, that would be my dream, to be out in the country, where I could have my horse..etc..) So maybe she would like something that would occupy her time. How does she feel about Mr. Virgo?

The driving issue, well I think that is an annoyance, but I am seeing more than that. I am seeing a fear of being stuck. You're saggie rising has a fear of being fenced in as well...with the wrong person and situation. Face it, if he was the man of your dreams, being stuck wouldn't be so bad. My brother and his wife live in an area that gets snowed in and the roads get slick, but they love it. They put on their hiking boots and explore the forest outside.

The other thing I see is that maybe you are afraid to take a chance, because in your heart you really don't want to make that committment. Maybe in your heart you realize that intimacy issues are not just a "weekend" thing. Wouldn't it hurt more to realize that he just has a low sex drive and when you move in, the sex is still has infrequent? But, you will never know if you don't make the plunge.

posted January 14, 2004 12:20 PM         

What if what if what if....?

And what if you're right...his appetite is just low, and it ruins our relationship? Or worse, I lose interest in sex altogether trying to adapt to his lack of appetite? Ok, that won't happen LOL...but I COULD be tempted to stray.

posted January 14, 2004 01:44 PM         

You must contend with your daughters desires and you must keep in mind being with him day in and day out. Now, in my last situation I LOVED being in the company of my Virgo. We did almost everything together because we got along like best friends. BUT, a woman has needs and I don't see you losing your sexual appetite. When you start wanting to feel the intimacy and it is not returned, then you start to turn in on yourself. The self esteem issue is huge.

posted January 14, 2004 01:46 PM         

I hope you don't mind me piping in...but lioneye, if you don't mind a little unsolicited advice, don't you think it might be best to put your cards on the table with this man in the country? Express how you feel, your frustrations iwth the relationship and his seeming lack of interest?

Putting on a happy face for his sake, well, that must be like pouring toxins on your insides.

At work, I always say you can't blame an employee for not doing his job, if he doesn't know what it is. You can't expect someone to intuit what you need...but you can gently explain to this man who has a place in your heart, that things are not what you need them to be.

And should he balk...should he be less than supportive...then, you likely have your answer.

posted January 14, 2004 03:29 PM         

*Sigh* plus...he's not pining to see me more often like I am (was) him. That tells me that I'm more into this thing than he is, and I find that unacceptable. It's suppose to be mutual, or at the very least, the other way around. I use to try to arrange to come to his place after work during the week so we could have supper together and hang out for a while in the evening. I don't do it anymore because he was usually so non-challant about it, like "Yeah, sure, if you want. Suit yourself" kind of thing. I originally had the crazy idea that we could maybe enjoy our evening in really *fun* ways, but that pipe dream crashed and burned pretty quickly. I got my feelings hurt and was disappointed more than once by having THAT crazy expectation in my head. So, I don't bother trying to see him during the week anymore, unless there's a specific reason.

It feels like *I* am thrilled to have found him and relish our relationship with so much passion and enthusiasm that I can't contain myself, and *HE* thinks it's really nice, but makes fun of my ferver. He'll jokingly say things like "You got it bad, baby", instead of reciprocating it. That cancels it out for me. It has to be reciprocated or it or it runs dry. It's like a fountain that keeps recirculating the same water around. If that water isn't brought back up, but rather runs down a drain, the water fountain ceases to flow. It has to flow full circle in order to continue flowing. In full quantity, not just partial, because it will still run dry eventually, it will just take longer.

posted January 14, 2004 04:28 PM         

Lioneye, I read between the lines of your posts and you have already answered your own questions. You are a firey girl who needs passion, and who needs a man to FEEL PASSIONATE ABOUT YOU.

We are who we are...and yes, people have been known to change. But if a man's nature isn't passionate to begin with, I don't think there's much that can change that.

If he welcomes a special trip from you to see him for dinner with a "well, suit yourself," well, that might be his way of being laid back...but...personally, I want someone to be happy and thrilled that I'll be there. And...I want him to jump my bones when I walk in the door.

Please, I am not trying to tell you what to do. I am not trying to tell your heart what or what not to feel. I think you're a wonderful person with great expression, brilliant energy, and your posts lead me to believe that this man doesn't equal your lust ( ) for life. So I'm only offering my opinion 'cause I like you so much and want you to be happy.

posted January 14, 2004 06:23 PM         

Well, as you know, Virgo men are not all that comfortable about showing how they "pine" for someone. I have noticed that they can appear nonchalant about something emotion, but look close and you can see the beads of sweat. Inside they are worrying like crazy and pining away. I noticed it, especially when my Virgo would become a total chatter box (Gemini moon).

I also believe, and have been told, that some Virgo men do have a problem with intimacy. The see women they "date" in one light and women they "love" in another. Almost like the Madonna complex..put a woman upon a pedastal.

The response to your letter is very analytical, which is great, because that really is how they relate to people. It's easier that way for them to convey their emotions in that type of setting. I would rarely see my Virgo display any emotional outburst, but when he did it was off the charts.

Lioneye, NEVER feel bad about talking about these things. I think it is great that you have us to talk to, that is why we are here to help each other.

Maybe you need to take a break from your Virgo. Tell him you need some distance, to cut things off to find out what you want. I know my ex Virgo was also very easy going about our relationship - you know the "Well, we have forever together to figure it out" type of attitude. Then he figured out I was leaving. I was already shutting down.

I remember he cried, really cried one morning. He sat me down and said "Please don't leave me. I love you..please don't go". God that was hard for me, it still brings tears to my eyes to know I hurt someone, but I was already gone in my heart. I couldn't stay, because he didn't want to get better, not even after marriage counseling.

So maybe taking a break is what you need. Maybe he needs a wakeup call.

I think what Aphrodite said was very important regarding never let go of what is important. Also, what trillian said about finding a passionate man.

I don't know if you have ever seen Hope Floats, but there is a scene that really hits home when I think of my ex Virgo. She said "I used to be so audacious, I used to be able to see myself in his eyes. But the harder I tried to be pleasing and to be the women he wanted me to be, the less of me I saw in his eyes. Then one day, I was gone".

posted January 15, 2004 09:23 AM         

I have a REALLY bad feeling about this. Wouldn't be saying it this way if I didn't feel it to my core.

This reminds me of a relationship I had with a Cap with Virgo Moon.

How many relationships have you found yourself asking so many "what if's". The reason is this guy KNOWS himself, knows his limits and is only showing you 3/4 of the stage because he wants you so bad. Another reason you're asking so many "what if's" is you do see glimpses of an underlying passion in this man, which is a bit of tease in terms of long-term potentials.

But he knows that about himself too.

This in turn will make you question whether you are "expecting too much". He's projecting his insecurities on you.

This is not to say he's a bad guy. He's NOT, which makes the decision even more difficult. Another thing is he's set up this "acreage" SET UP in order to set you up the way HE thinks you deserve to be set up. Can you say, "I know why the cage bird sings?"

As for the passion thing, again, he's making you question yourself, if you are expecting too much, etc. Afterall, he's so perfect in so many other ways.

In terms of pure psychology, if the passion thing or sex thing or WHATEVER you want to call it is not ABSOLUTELY satisfying for both people from the beginning, it will ALWAYS be lacking. Not in the sense of sex getting better with time within a loving relationship, that's not what I'm saying. It's simply his inability to let himself go completely.

As for your daughter, I would trust what her instincts are on the move. Unless she will be willing to emmerse herself into serious equestrian activities...

As for the stars right now, Venus is in Pisces, Moon is in Libra, and Aries is in Mars, so be VERY careful about making a decision right now. Take advantage of the Cappy Sun and Mercury.

Remember that if you start looking at the positive side of this in terms of EXTERNAL advantages, you will regret it. It all has to originate from inside your HEART.

PS: The true definition of cold is the absence of heat.

with love & support,

.gloria

posted January 16, 2004 02:58 PM         

Trillion, your the best. You know exactly how I feel. Yeah, he SHOULD be jumping my bones the minute I walk in the door. Or at least giving me a hot sexy kiss, the kind where you close your eyes and float away...ya know?...But, alas, very few people express their affections quite as ardently as the lionhearted, and I am that in spades, as you know. I was reading a sample compatability report the other day. It was between a Leo woman and a Gemini man, and one of the things it said about her was "Be careful not to over do it with those who are more reserved in their expressions of romance & love, or you will be disappionted by their inability to reciprocate in kind"

BINGO!!

In other words, keep your expectations realistic and you won't be disappointed so much. Maybe my expectations are a little high. Maybe all men are boobs. If you can get them to remember your birthday, or help set up the Christmas tree, you're doing pretty good.

I think I'm just going to lay low for a while, not try to push the relationship to the next level (co-habitating), and just enjoy the freedom that comes with being in a part-time relationship. Just wonder if I should tell him that I think we should be able to see other people as well. I doubt if he would agree to that.

posted January 16, 2004 03:56 PM         

And I am so overwhelmed with the amazing ladies posting here. I think you're all so wonderful, intuitive and wise.

posted January 16, 2004 04:51 PM         

Pid, I especially liked your quote from 'Hope Floats'. That's a good one to remember.

posted January 16, 2004 07:55 PM         

...and the usual activities begin to take precedence...

...after a few weeks, things start to change...

... once she's got her wits about her again, we finally get down to the nitty gritty...

posted January 17, 2004 12:36 AM         

here's a rainbow for ya and have a great weekend: