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Author Topic:   #@*&!%$@ Why is it so freakin complicated and when do you quit?!
future_uncertain
Knowflake

Posts: 2119
From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 11, 2005 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
Relationships!!!!

Why is it that two people can love each other so much and get along great and things still be so rough?

When two people get together you're combining the entire life experiences of both people and trying to find some middle ground where the two of you can have your own thing. No easy task, right?

Sometimes you love someone and they love you, but the ways you express it are so different that neither of you really reach the other in the places where you want to reach and be reached.

But you know that if this one thing would come together, then you would have everything.

Do you give it all up over not feeling that thing? Even if you know without a doubt that this person loves you, is always there for you, but simply may leave you feeling a bit unfulfilled in certain emotional aspects?

Do you ever feel like you can't stay, then when you leave, you can't stay gone?

There are so many differences, but also so many important similarities. Has anyone made it through a relationship where the differences threatened your relationship, but you found a way to make it work?

We really, really want it to. The only problem for me is that one little thing that I can't explain. Like a touching of the souls. That connection. (We have others... lots of them. Just not this one.)

Are some people really incapable of being moved by love? He says he loves me, but doesn't feel moved by that. He says he's never felt moved by love. So I cooled it off a bit. Went out with him and just had fun for a while. I didn't act aloof, just wasn't passionate about him like I normally would be.

He noticed.

And he didn't like it.

But he doesn't do the same kinds of things.

Is this fair?

Just some astro info, he's a Virgo with an Aries moon, Sag rising, and Mercury, Venus, Mars, and Pluto in Libra. It seems impossible to me that he could be incapable of being unmoved by love.

I don't know if I just need to find a way to get through to him. (He's been seriously burned in the past... who hasn't, right? But I think some people become more protective than others of their emotions after these things.) Or is he a lost cause?

Mr. Virgo's Libra planets are all in the 10th and he's totally passionate about his work.

Any ideas? Do I just move on, or is there a way to crack this guy?

I bring this question here because you guys have some wonderful insight. I don't want to be a bother. Just could use some help.

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sthenri
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From: Generic New England City
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posted May 11, 2005 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sthenri     Edit/Delete Message
I think he'll have to come to you, keep in touch at emotional times such as birthdays and holidays, but have fun without him too. You don't have to tell him off, but make it clear that you are touched by love, all the time and he can share that or not.

I am suprised with all that Libra and a Sag rising and Aries moon, that he is untouched, more likely he is super stubborn and argumentative. If you have tried being romantic, then be romantic to yourself in front of him, buy yourself small gifts, treat yourself to a new pair of shoes, just let him be company but no expectations. See what he does then.

My Libra ex, was like that until one day out of the blue he mentioned our first date and I got a card and flowers. But before had always been cool, the turning point came when I refused to let hm over to my house for a while, I said I needed to get things done.

Your guy has all those 10th house planets, being affectionate with him ought to be enough to move him, unless he's arguing with you for some reason? What aspects his Sun? Mars, Pluto??

Natasha

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

Posts: 2119
From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 12, 2005 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
I was just thinking about this and I realized that I'm the one doing all the work. It occurred to me that he hasn't really come to me, ever. Your words came at the perfect moment for me. Thank you.

Super stubborn and argumentive??? Actually, he never comes across this way-- he is always the image of charm and politeness. BUT! I've learned that this is his way of hiding and being non-confrontational so that he is always on the winning end. He only looks like he is being cooperative and understanding, but in reality he isn't. It's really very selfish, but he doesn't see it that way.

As far as his aspects go, his moon opposes his venus, mars, and pluto; his sun is square neptune, his mars and venus are conjunct, and his venus and mars are conjunct pluto.

Sadly, I think the reason I'm afraid to let go is because I know he won't make any moves in my direction. He just doesn't believe in that sort of thing, and I'm a sucker for making believers. Time to drop that habit, methinks!

Thanks Natasha

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sue g
Knowflake

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From: ireland
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posted May 12, 2005 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Future, even before I got to the bit where you said what his sign was........... I knew. I am married to a Virgo and been with him for 16 years. I being a very passionate Scorpio/Aries/Taurus finds it amost impossible at times to understand this guy. I am MOVED by things so easily, love, music, poetry, life in general, and he doesnt seem to share this feeling I have.......what to do? Well I am older and wiser now and on my third marriage, so I thank God for my female friends and the gift of music and dance and expression. I was with a very wise friend last night, who said to me that it has taken her to reach the age of 43 and many many relationships with men to realise they dont always connect at the same emotional level than we do. They can support us and be there, but most (not all of course) of them do not come from that place of emotional intensity that women are looking for. What do we do, keep looking, searching, yearning, or as I have done, realise this beautiful Virgo younger man I am with has a wonderful gift of giving to me what I need to make me whole and yet in other ways I yearn for what I now know will never be given to me by a mere human being. I am looking to connect on a higher level and my faith in that "unseen" force takes me there. I reach that place in music and friendship and at times with my man, but I am now realising that what I actually need to grow isnt always what I think I need. I know if I hadnt come to this place in my life I probably would have had 10 husbands by now. I had to heal this wound and it is something deep inside of ME and not the men I puruse. Sorry if I have gotten a bit heavy, my Scorpio intensity is overwhelming at times. For me the bottom line IS LOVE..........and I do love this guy as well as admire, respect and at times feel so grateful for the freedom he gives me. Love and luck to you sweetie, I pray things will work out. What is it about those Virgo guys that is so appealing and brings us back to ourselves? Sue xxx

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sue g
Knowflake

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From: ireland
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posted May 12, 2005 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
My Virgo also has Sag rising.........now we do have a lot in common hey? Pease if I can help, just ask xxx

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pixelpixie
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From: Ontario Canada
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posted May 12, 2005 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message
******head explodes******

Yeah.. I don't know.. but even if others came along and said "Well.. this is how I integrated (settled) all these good things, and this lack of just one thing, (that is so important it has me questioning the good things) thats how you know it is important..
the answer would be different for you.
I am happy to guide you through the process.
I will also glean some meanings.

I know I had a good chat last night with my man.. (the good one, with these qualities that are not good for me- to nurture my growth..)
And while I feel we made some headway, and that I am honoured he even *tries* to listen.. ( for that quality alone is a great one) I am still stuck. It is not easy.
But how long has this feeling lasted? Is it true? Does it eclipse other things?
Is it that important to you?
Because it will come up again. Until it is acknowledged. You can't help the things which move YOU.
Clarity and love to you.

*give me my brain back, I need it!!!*

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lalalinda
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From: nevada
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posted May 12, 2005 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message
RELATIONSHIPS??
I thought you were talking about something really hard, like quitting smoking

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

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From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 12, 2005 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
LOL, lalalinda! That's my next problem to tackle. (again...)

Sue, I take your words to heart. Especially the advice from your female friend. That's important information to me in making this decision, because if I'm not really going to find that with any man anyway, then I'd be very foolish to leave. I think there is something to these Virgo guys! I almost wish I had never gotten involved with him, but if I hadn't I wouldn't have known what I do now about commitment and patience, which only makes me love him more, but what's the use? It's a horrible situation!

So how do you get by? Is there a lot of love in your relationship? Are you happy? Do you feel resentful that there are things you can't share with him?

Sometimes I wish I was the type of person who can just move on, but instead I'm the type who tries way too hard and too long. It's very self-defeating, actually. I think it has something to do with having more insight than some of the people I deal with. I feel like a lot of people are too unaware and I feel compelled to show them. It's like beating my head against a wall! I think some people here have expressed similar problems and have had to learn how to save their energy for things that show more promise.

It's hard to be practical when you're a lover! Living by your heart can be a lonely experience, indeed!

Pix... this thing has always come up for us, and it doesn't go away, and he's tired of having the same old discussions. It makes me look like the nagging girlfriend, and I'm not that way. I've learned that a lot of guys deal with confusion or uncertainty by blowing it off. When I can't do that, I'm in the wrong. Does it eclipse other things? Yeah, it definitely does. There are so many things we do that I could be happier about if I felt like I was more acknowledged overall. As it is, I feel like I am forced to live his life. It's very important to me, but I wonder if it's some erroneous thinking on my part, or a mis-match (with almost every guy I date????)

I am moved by many things, and I have a need to share this with the person I spend my life with. Is that just clinginess? I don't insist that he understand every little emotion that flutters over my being, but it would be great if he could be more in tune with my "essence."

I really hate that this is so detrimental to me. So many people don't get hung up on these things. I'm glad to be everything that I am, but from what I see, ignorance is bliss.

I need the clarity! Thank you!

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Tranquil Poet
Knowflake

Posts: 1360
From: New York City
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posted May 12, 2005 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tranquil Poet     Edit/Delete Message
Buy him a good book

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

Posts: 2119
From: ohio
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posted May 12, 2005 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
LOL... buy him a good book? Seriously, I'm taking any ideas right now. I did buy him a book for Christmas, called, "So You Want to Take Over the World." This is his goal in life. I thought most boys got over that before they grew whiskers...

He does suffer delusions of grandeur. Aries moon opposing half his chart? Sun square Neptune?

What am I DOING!!!!

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GemStar
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From: USA
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posted May 13, 2005 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GemStar     Edit/Delete Message
Hi future...we all may not have the correct answers for you as I believe there is more than one right way to 'do' relationships.

My best thoughts for you are these:

First-Define what you want in a relationship. Period. Not what you want from him. You have to know clearly and specifically what certain traits in a mate you believe will make you happy. These answers will be unique to you and you alone. You may ask for anything and everything your heart desires-free from limiting thoughts. Anything. This is about identifying your own important needs...

Once you know what you want, ask (the universe) for nothing less in your search for your mate. Some people will be able to offer you many things that meet your needs...maybe not all of them. We certainly are allowed to compromise on some of these wishes but only after careful consideration. There must be a satisfactory 'balance' to fill the void from that need not being met.

You know how some people look 'good' on paper per se but a certain something is missing? I have found that without that connection, you will never truly fly 'high in love' with that person. It just isn't possible. An ingredient is missing.

Remember to look at what IS, not what you wish was there from someone. He can only be himself. It isn't fair to him or yourself. You can only be you. And be proud of that!!

Letting go is something I think many of us have a hard time learning. It is only after we finally do, that life opens up to more beautiful things. We then wish we had done it sooner!!

Trust your instincts...they will not lead you wrong. There are plenty of good people out there to know in our lives...however, it is up to you to choose the best one for you.

Lastly...

PS-
An inside true love secret: When you find the One that is right for you, all of your desires will be met and then some! (ones you didn't even know you needed!!) THAT is when you KNOW!


Good Luck!

GemStar

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sthenri
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From: Generic New England City
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posted May 13, 2005 08:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sthenri     Edit/Delete Message
Its' hard to express, but sometimes I feel like Libra men are too much friends and not enough lover, if you know what I mean? It's easy to be with a friend and then there is no romance at all, otherwise you might rock the boat emotionally. Libras like peace most of all, so sparks do not fly. At the same time it's hard for me to talk about my feelings to someone who I think will tell everyone what he thinks at a dinner.

It's a feeling of warmth, but trust is difficult for LIbras anyway. I thought for a long time it was me having trouble trusting, but it's not, Libra men have a distrust of romance and respect for their friends, so it's hard to get close.

I was with my ex in a restaurant, a mexican one and he was trying to get back together, and the way he did it was so unromantic it was selfish. He orders a burrito, and it's the kind of place kids go to, and he says over the food "so will we ever have intercourse again" as loud as can be and these little kids at the next table looked at him, with a look that said, why are you with that loser?

I know other people's opinions do not matter, but mine does, and he didn't take that into consideration at all. Then he took me to a very violent move and I protested by walking out.

So I knew it was over,

Natasha

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sue g
Knowflake

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From: ireland
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posted May 13, 2005 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
Isnt the guy in question a Virgo? xx

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LeoSweetHeart
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Posts: 466
From: California, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted May 14, 2005 04:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeoSweetHeart     Edit/Delete Message
Heyyy Future! I'm going to write you on our special post but I just wanted to say I liked some of the advice people are giving here. I am going through the exact same thing (with a Virgo) that Future is..so this advice is really helpful to me too.

Sue G, I think sometimes we do look for those qualities in someone that we are missing or we try to use love to elevate spiritually and reach greater depths that maybe we should be able to reach alone first. I like how you said you were able to find different outlets for your passion, so that you could be free to appreciate the beauty your Virgo brings you It sounds like you've found a solution that works for both of you.

Pixie, Your advice also resonated with me. Sometimes it takes more than just compromise to make things work..sometimes it seems feeling love for a certain person is beyond your control. Like theres just this yearning deep down that keeps whispering and reminding you of a more blissful love/life that your not following. I ask myself often if I belong with my Virgo because of that soft, but very important whisper.

Gemstar, that was beautiful advice you gave as well I think all or most of your deepest desires in a mate can be fulfilled by a special love and that it is worth searching for. Sometimes when our hearts are crying, we should pay attention because it is wiser than we think.

Just wanted to let you all know I benefited from this advice as well, thanks

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
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posted May 14, 2005 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Can I venture a guess?

Initially I think it's Sag rising. I've never met a Sag male that was very affectionate. They all seem to have kids with both their first and second wives, but I've never seem a public display of affection from a Sag male. The last woman I spoke with about her Sag lover said that he's very distant after sex. Your ascendant is supposed to be the way you appear to others, and is supposed to account for nearly half of your personality.

After thinking about it, the whole combination Virgo/Aries/Sag may be an awful tough one to crack. Let me reveal what my moon in Virgo says about me:

You are very sensitive, cautious, and shy about showing others your feelings. Though you may love and care for someone a great deal, you rarely express those feelings openly and freely. Very often your love for someone will be expressed by trying to help them, doing something tangible to benefit them, or serving them in some way.

It is also difficult for you to receive warmth, affection, or appreciation, for you often feel that you don't really deserve it or that "they don't really mean it". You can therefore seem rather cool and aloof, much more so than you feel.

A deeply ingrained critical attitude often makes you difficult to live with. You need to learn to be gentler and less of a perfectionist with others and with yourself.
---

I can't fathom what an Aries moon might hold, and I'm certain I wouldn't have a clue about how they love.

Overall, though, I think you've got yourself one majorly aloof fella. Virgo may make him talkative, and Sag may make him ever optimistic, but neither makes him a warm lover.

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sue g
Knowflake

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From: ireland
Registered: Sep 2004

posted May 14, 2005 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for sue g     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Acoustic, I enjoyed reading your words, very interesting...........mmmmm now what is your take on a Virgo male with Sag rising and an Aqua Moon plus Cancer Venus.........would be fascinated to hear - thanks xx

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

Posts: 2119
From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted May 16, 2005 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
Hello, Everyone.

Thank you so much for your messages.

Gem Star~ You are so right about everything! When I read your words it made me remember that every ending is a new beginning and that things always work out in the end exactly the way they were meant to. Thanks for reminding me.

St. Henri~ I knew what you meant with the Libra info... (Sue, you are right, he is a Virgo, but he has a giant dose of Libra in him, which I believe is what Natasha was referring to.) But you hit the nail on the head when you said they don't like to rock the boat. It's easier to keep the peace when you don't allow yourself to get too deep!

And Welcome, Acoustic God. You sound like a very insightful, sensitive guy. I liked what you said about the sag rising. I'm a sag with sag rising and I've dated a few sag guys with whom I got along very well. But I think it's because they also had some more emotional placements. The sag's I've dated and I definitely were "buddy" types. And that is one of the nifitier things about this guy... I'll give him credit for that. I guess it never occurred to me that these fiery signs were lacking in the affection department, but you're right. Fortunately I can take a high-five as a sign of affection! And your info on the Virgo moon sounds a lot like my boyfriend. Now... is there any way to crack that?!

*Actually I've learned over the weekend that there is and that I'm partly to blame for the impersonal reception I've been receiving. If you want to talk more about this, AG, I'd be happy to.

LeoSweetHeart~ Good to see ya again. We will certainly have to catch up very soon. Hope things are well in the meantime.

Much love to all of you!
You've each been a bit of sunshine in the storm. The clouds are slowly parting...

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Secret Garden
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posted May 16, 2005 09:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Secret Garden     Edit/Delete Message
Gem star your words just rang so true.

Natasha, i know it was disgusting and insulting for you , what he did at the restaurant over the burrito, but i just HAVE to tell you how much i laughed about that one

over a BURRITO?? talking about SEX??? with an EX?? does this guy have NO social sense whatsoever?

burritos + cheap talk + violent movie: the ultimate turnoff for the Venusian, classic taste, refined Taurus woman. and whats interesting is that Ive yet to see a refined Libra male although their ruler is also Venus.

this guy was not a libra, he was a pathetic excuse for a date. me thinks he would go out with anyone that breathed.

Love
SG

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1scorp
Knowflake

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From:
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posted December 22, 2005 11:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1scorp     Edit/Delete Message
I was reading through this yesterday.

There was a post made that really struck me... it's me...

"You are very sensitive, cautious, and shy about showing others your feelings. Though you may love and care for someone a great deal, you rarely express those feelings openly and freely. Very often your love for someone will be expressed by trying to help them, doing something tangible to benefit them, or serving them in some way."

"It is also difficult for you to receive warmth, affection, or appreciation, for you often feel that you don't really deserve it or that "they don't really mean it". You can therefore seem rather cool and aloof, much more so than you feel."


I'm working on it...

I can be openly affectionate... I'm just a little more reserved about it than others.

Wow. Is it really bad to be this way?
_________________________________________
Scorpio sun, venus, mars, mercury, and uranus
Libra moon, pluto, and asc.

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future_uncertain
Knowflake

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From: ohio
Registered: Aug 2004

posted December 22, 2005 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message
1scorp...

How funny that you bring this thread up today. It's still going on. I posted this in May. That should tell me something.

You asked if it's a bad thing to be like this. Initially, I would say no, if this is how you feel most comfortable. There are others out there who would feel at home with this.

On the other hand, if you feel like you are holding back in the love department out of fear, then it could be a very bad thing. Without opening up, you cheat yourself and your partner by eliminating the opportunity for true closeness.

Some people are just more subtle, I guess. This seems to work for some and not for others.

If my tone sounds witchy, it is not intentional. I'm at the end of my rope this very moment and my frustration is getting the best of me.

Thanks for bumping this. I really needed it right now.

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pixelpixie
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posted December 22, 2005 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message
Well lookie what I wrote...
again.. all those months ago.. and it did tell me something.
It's nice to go through things with like minded people. Thank you .

in both our futures uncertain....

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Lissajane
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From: Auckland, NZ
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posted December 22, 2005 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lissajane     Edit/Delete Message
Future,

Just wanted to say that I am going through something very similar at the moment. I am a Sag/cancer, my boy is a Sag/libra and i'm so confused i'm sick in the belly, and it's all falling apart just in time for christmas.

You are in my thoughts and i thank you for posting, so I don't feel so alone (or nuts).

Merry Christmas and hugs to you.

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Cardinalgal
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From: Lincoln, UK
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posted December 22, 2005 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cardinalgal     Edit/Delete Message
Just wanted to send love and support to future, pixie and lissajane - I hope that 2006 brings you the joy and happiness you're seeking and that you find fulfilment.

Happy Christmas and a warm wonderful new year to you all

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geminstone
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Posts: 571
From: Golden, CO
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posted December 22, 2005 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for geminstone     Edit/Delete Message
Hi Future, I give my 2 cents on relationship stuff with the disclaimer that, I am in NO way the ' Great Book of Knowledge' on relationships or, anything else for that matter so, I give only of what I am still learning...
... and here is some of the bits and pieces....
I am, currently on the same idea that GemStar gave, with regard to knowing what YOU want and, I would add, NEED, in a relationship.... I also think that this needs to be explored within the 'self' first. Know why you want and need those things... basically know your own personal 'baggage' and, by this I mean, not the kind that you have accumulated throughout life from others.... don't know how much sense that makes but, I'm thinking that one can have needs and desires outside of those that are due to deficiencies of those around and, in ones existance.... Anyway, what I have boiled it all down to is, simply this ... place expectations, only, on yourself.... if, indeed, you get what you give, then......? However, like I said, this is a personal 'experiment', of sorts and one that has no ground in any kind of facts... I find that, when I am feeling unappreciative or, unappreciated, if I remember #3 on the string in ' Soul Unions ', that Aqua started titled, ' THINK on it ', I tend to look into the feeling at the 'me' level, letting go of the tendancy to lay blame....
#3- " Just because someone does'nt love you the way you want them to, does'nt mean they don't love you with all they have."..... I don't think that 'settling' is a good thing to do but, I believe that, if two people have the desire to encounter life together, then with that desire there comes the care to be what each other needs and wants. I also believe that, communication without the limits of ego, is all important...
.... so, there be my theories .... and, it may come to pass, that I never attain the 'Answer' but, in my own experience, it's worth the search anyway.

~ geminstone

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA, USA
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posted December 22, 2005 08:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message
Good post GeminiStone. I always did like you.

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