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Author Topic:   DOES PORN DESTROY RELATIONSHIPS?
moonmaiden
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posted May 17, 2005 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I Just blasted my libran boy(IN A TYPICALLY DRAMATIC /EMOTIONAL CANCERIAN STYLE) for keeping/using pornography that he purchased before we got together and kept .My argument is that anytime you look outside the relationship to fulfill a need you do a dis service to both yoursELF and your partner as you are disrespecting the intamacy which the two of you create by allowing a third entity to have an influence in wat i believe (and Linda believed) should be a deeply connected experience...if you read 'Love Signs' i think you will see who helped shape my thoughts on sex and Love.Any thoughts??

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"to thine own self be true"

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moonmaiden
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posted May 17, 2005 10:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just wanted to say, i am not a prude, i believe that sex is a gift from the universe and wen experienced with love, is one of the most profoundly powerful of all human experiences...i dont believe in controling other ppl (although i know i imposed my will on my boy)...i just feel that our love is pure and deep ...if he looks at images of other women performing sexual acts, surely this is bound to effect our relationship on some level, esp.if you consider that everything we encounter and absorb enters our auric field...if making love means your auric fields merge(during sex) i dont want that...wud you??
Once i explained this to him he saw the female perspective and he saw the other side to it,that porn in a relationship diminishes the intimacy by lowering sex to a solely physical act...i mean OF COURSE ITS PHYSICAL! I wouldnt want it any other way but porn ignores the fact that sex is a merging of more than just bodies...regardless of weather your in love or not.the argument ive heard a 100 times "but theres no emotion to it.." is exactly the point...i know not everyone has sex to be emotional but in a relationship...i think it should always be.

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"to thine own self be true"

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sue g
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posted May 17, 2005 10:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi MM, I think it depends completey on the people in the relationship and if it offends one, then it aint gonna do the bond any good. I was married to a guy who hid his porn mags and of course I found em. It wouldnt have bothered me if he had been open about this - honesty to me is EVERYTHING. I am not anti porn at all, but if it disturbs or upsets then it isnt good. Of course, for some relationships it can actually help, whats good for one isnt for the other - its personal choice and the freedom to choose - love and passion Sue xxxx

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Tranquil Poet
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posted May 17, 2005 11:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd dump them.

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CNO732
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posted May 17, 2005 02:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It really depends on the two people involved ... My point is coming from a male perspective, which is always at odds with women on the porn thing ...

I believe in honesty and truth and if 2 people are sexual beings and have a exclusive commitment to each other, I think they need to be realistic and open about sex and its variances ... Some men ... well most men, really like variety and visuals and think about sex ALL THE TIME ...

I can understand that it may get in the way of the emotional connection, but for many men, they can REALLY separate those two and it does not mean their emotions with their partner is lacking ... we can get into metaphysics, the stars, moon, whatever ... u have to be realistic about sex

Guys will check out the Web, look a Mags, go to strip clubs, rent a movie, oggle other women .. SEX in all its forms is EVERYWHERE and it depends on how healhty ur relationship with ur man is ... If he is a constant offender, then that's a problem ... like if ur not having sex with him on a constant and connecting emotionally while doing so ... If he is not meeting UR emorional and sexual needs ... But if he wacks off every blue moon to porn then I don't see a problem ...

I guess my reasoning is u don't know what a man is doing 24 hours of day and what triggers him sexually at times when UR not around ... and for one I would rather a visually cheatin man than one who seeks physicality outside the union ...

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Tranquil Poet
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posted May 17, 2005 02:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd kill him.

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fayte.m
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posted May 17, 2005 02:29 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sue g..I agree!
Quote:its personal choice and the freedom to choose - love and passion Sue xxxx

And CNO732...Not all women are so worried about it. And I also agree that it is better a man OR WOMAN, get their extra kicks that way, then by physically running amock!

This reminds me of a couple I knew. The woman weighed like 350 pounds. The man weighed 500 pounds!!!!!! The woman caught her husband looking at naked ladies on the net. She was crushed, she thought he was going to cheat on her! The poor man was in addition to being 500 pounds, was only 5ft. 2" tall, and had to use an oxygen tank, and was only 23 years old!!!!! In addition to all that, he was a virgin when she married him and they had 3 children!!!!!! She didn't want any more children and didn't like using birth control. He talked to me about it and said he and her never touched each other anymore. I know this is an extreme case....but it takes two to tango..and the more highly sexed one needs to, can I say,"please the eye and take the matter into hand?" And in the case of this man, he had never seen or been with another woman...and never will.
PS. If it becomes a substitute for true love making, or things get really kinky, and the people involved don't agree, or if it involves kids or other criminal acts, and or leads to criminal acts, well that is NOT good. But true perves will go out and be sickos even without the porn. I knew some truck drivers who said that before they had vcrs and movies to watch in their trucks when they got sexually lonely, they engaged in such with prostitutes. But they said the vcr/cd players have made the "real thing" much less appealing or tempting. One guy said for him it was the perfect safety net to keep him from cheating on his wife. So ladies which would you rather have?

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Tranquil Poet
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posted May 17, 2005 02:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
None

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Isis
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posted May 17, 2005 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Although I respect that many women find porn to be a violation of their relationship, I personally don't see what the big deal is, unless the porn involves children, dead people, animals, or it's overtly gay porn (because gay porn would lead one to ask the question, "what is it you really want?".)

Men are very visual creatures. They also tend to be hornier than women in general. That's not to say women aren't horny, or not sexual creatures, but men do tend to be more obsessed with sex than women. I've never understood why some women view it as a violation of their relationship - whether they view it as a threat, disloyalty, or what, although like I said, I do respect their right to feel whatever way they do about it.

Now, if he's obsessed with porn, or wants to look at porn all the time instead of having sex, something like that, then I view it as a problem. The dishonesty thing would bother me too, but I think that men assume women will be against porn which would explain why they would tend to hide it.

Porn is just images. I believe sex between two people who love each other can be a deeply connected experience whether the man enjoys viewing porn or not. Hell, I enjoy viewing porn on occassion. Part of it is probably a level of fascination; the same thing that makes us slow down and gawk at car wrecks. Personally I'm not into hardcore stuff, but the human body and its sexuality is a very erotic, beautiful thing. It doesn't lessen my desire for the real thing any less, nor do I imagine my lover as some porn guy I've seen when we're making love, nor can it be taken to indicate some kinky thing I desire that I won't tell my lover about.

When it comes to sex, one person's "eeew" is another person's "woohoo"...something you might enjoy (like premarital sex w/ a bf), another person might think, "omg you're going to hell, that is so wrong". When it comes to sex/porn/etc I find the attitude "judge not lest ye be judged" most appropriate.

But, if it bothers you than I would try to calmly talk to your bf about how you feel, and how he feels about it, maybe come to some arrangement. But I'm of the opinion that if you forbid him porn, he will just look at it anyway, and be put in the position to lie to you, which will further hurt you. It doesn't do well to IMO to repress sexual stuff... IMO that leads to more deviancy. Even if someone felt compelled to have sex with children, they would be better to talk it over with a counselor or somebody, rather than repress it, internalize it, end up feeling more dirty and bad, then figuring, "well I'm already dirty and bad, why not just indulge and have something tangible to justify this dirty feeling"...

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Isis
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posted May 17, 2005 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, and yes Porn can destroy relationships, I've heard of it happening. But IMO that's only because both individuals allow their relationship be destroyed by Porn. Porn in and of itself doesn't destroy relationships anymore than guns in and of themselves kill people.

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fayte.m
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posted May 17, 2005 03:18 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isis! My hat is off to you! Very nice replies!

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Isis
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posted May 17, 2005 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why tyvm

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AcousticGod
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posted May 17, 2005 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've known many women that have been ok with porn. Perhaps it's what we draw to ourselves.

May I suggest Astro Click Love at astro.com? Perhaps there are aspects of your love profile that either explains why you don't like porn, or explains why you draw to yourself a man that does like porn.

To answer the question:

I think it's possible that porn could ruin a relationship, but I think it's only fair to yourself to ask if it's really worth it to you to get rid of your man over porn. Is it a real threat or an imaginary one? Does his secretly having porn make him a person that is unworthy of your love and partnership? I think this kind of question needs to be examined fairly deeply.

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pidaua
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posted May 17, 2005 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Isis,

I couldn't have said it better myself!!! Nice to see you back..how was New Zealand or are you still there?

~Pidaua

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pixelpixie
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posted May 17, 2005 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope. Porn doesn't destroy relationships.

Sometimes people's reactions to anything can destroy relationships.
If someone has an unhealthy obsession with toast, and the other one sees it as a problem, and the toast lover just sees it as toast.. and what exactly is wrong with toast?
And they refus to acknowledge each others feelings? Irrational, emotional, jealous, exclusive, insecure, obsessed.... these are all words indicative of a problem.
Either side.
As long as I am loved, and also *LOVED* go ahead and pop in the porn if that's what *literally* gets you off.
If I have a problem with it, WE have a problem with it.. there is no exclusivity of problems.. thats one area of relationships that is equal.

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moonmaiden
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posted May 17, 2005 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My boy and i agreed that out of respect for me he wud get rid of it...IM NOT NAIVE enough to think thats the end of the porn issue...i KNOW he'll look at it again and thats fine really as long as its NOT around me and as long as i am the one he comes to to fulfill his emotional,mental and sexual needs as that is something porn can never do.In typival Libran style ,he listened to every word of what i had to say on the issue,he validated that which he agreed with and then gave his side of it, saying that he is a male and a visual creature (this i already knew) purchased it when he was single,and only used it wen i couldnt see him for a while(sorry if thats gross)... he said he has never felt as connected and as in love as he is with me and wouldnt dream of disrepecting me, so he said that out of love and respect from me he wud get rid of it...
I Then told him to keep it as he was only doing because i made a fuss (i really can be such a leo rising pain in the butt!)
He said he understood my P.O.V and would rather have the complete experience with me that a 2D image...NOW I KNOW HE WILL LOOK AT PORN AGAIN, im not that naive...and you know wat...if its not done around me and its once in a blue moon, thats ok.Just as long as i know that he comes to me to fulfill his emotional,mental,AND sexual needs i'll be content.
Bottom line is im glad we had an argument over it i think it really reveals the state of your relationship wen someone is confronted with an issue like this and this and they are so honnest and willing to compromise...
After being with 3 SELFISH ARIES MEN,1 LAZY CANCER AND A TACTLESS ARCHER... at the age of 22/23, while i dont claim to know everything,i know enough about men to know that the way this man validated my oppinion,stood his ground yet respected me has made just fall in love with him for ever!...who wud of thought a discussion (ok ,argument) over porn cud make me see that?
Love, MM. XXX.
If you have a look at my other post "opposing moons indicate marriage?" you'll see that we didnt come to this agreement easily my mars conjuncts his sun...we could of had a stale mate! plus im a cancer and he's a libran, thats a 4-10 vibration,i m very proud of us.

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"to thine own self be true"

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moonmaiden
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posted May 17, 2005 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'l just post it here so you guys can appriciate the aspects the two of us had to overcome to get to the agreement that we did

ME
SUN cancer
MOON aquarius
MERCURY cancer
VENUS gemini
MARS libra
ASCEND.leo

HIM
SUN libra
MOON leo
MERCURY libra
VENUS scorpio
MARS aquarius
ASCEND. virgo

in the post this is wat others said:

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"to thine own self be true"

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moonmaiden
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posted May 17, 2005 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonmaiden     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MM,
I see you have a double whammy: his venus sextiles your sun and vice versa, it is a very strong positive 'marriage' aspect, you truly love each other for who you are;
on the other hand there are some irritating factors: suns and venuses square one another,
your moons being on your asc/dsc line means that you both influence each other's mood and emotional condition very much but this influence may be a flustrating one since they are in opposition,
since mercuries also sqare each other it may be very difficult to communicate with each other and really understand the other's point of view but still you have lots of other supportive aspects:your moon conj his mars, his sun sextiles your mars(strong sexual attraction),your sun sextiles his asc/dsc, his sun sextiles your asc/dsc (another double whammy!)and so on.

I think your relationship has a good potential but you both will have to work hard on it because there are a number of challenging aspects here, but i also know that hard aspects are more usual for marriage than supportive ones...
in one word good luck to you both.!
(THAT WAS FROM PERI... I THINK)

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"to thine own self be true"

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sthenri
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posted May 17, 2005 09:20 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
" Some men ... well most men, really like variety and visuals and think about sex ALL THE TIME"

And some women don't? Who can decide to read porn and not share it with their significant other because she wouldn't be able to fulfill the sexual needs ALL THE TIME? How would you know did you even bring it up with her? and as for all the time, don't some men have jobs? If that private time is used for porn when is there private time for the g/f? Seems to me those some men would prefer to satisfy themselves anyway.

MANY MEN do prefer to satisfy themselves, without any woman or magazine at all, that's their business, but DON'T BLAME THE WOMAN and say SHE CAN'T SATISFY YOUR NEEDS IF YOU CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO BRING THEM UP BECAUSE YOU ARE TOO LAZY TO TALK ABOUT IT!

I had to make the point, some men are just too lazy to find a woman and interact, if a woman said she wanted to masturbate instead of being with her partner, her partner would be ****** off at her. What kind of slap in the face is that? If you have trouble relating to your partner get lost and let your partner find a real significant other.

One ex b/f of mine would masturbate in my bathroom and tell me about it afterwards, because he didn't feel like foreplay. So I said to him, well you'll be useless later then?
Thanks for thinking of me!

Natasha
Taurus

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monad
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posted May 17, 2005 10:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for monad     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Libran fondness of beauty could be a good thing, it could have the effect of increased appreciation for women.

PORN, I heard can set up images that block the path to the discovery of ones own self, because of misallocation of energies, I assume.

And, a man might only like women with large breasts, for instance because of porn-conditioning.

Ther are no absolutes, however.


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LeoSweetHeart
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posted May 17, 2005 11:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hahah I loved that StHenri

As many of you know, I have contemplated this issue many times over the past year. I do feel that each couple is different, and that their individual feelings about porn should be deeply considered. I know a few healthy couples that watch porn together for kicks and that works for them, so wonderful. As for my feelings about porn, well they go deeper than jealousy...much deeper. I also agree with Linda's outlook on love and the sacredness of it. So in that respect I think porn does cheapen sex and introduce new attitudes into the watcher's (usually male being effected) head about the way sex should be. In my psychology and mass communications classes this semester, I learned that studies have shown direct causes and correlations between porn and negetive relationship effects. Watching porn heavily can have drastic cumulative effects ie.. Just like violence in the media, porn desensitizes us to certain acts we would have previously deemed "out there" or deviant and just plain frightening. Also lovers report being less satisfied with their lover's physical appearance after viewing it. Also men are much more accepting of the rape myth and violence against women after just being aroused by it. Okay so those are just a few examples of harmful effects I learned in my classes..I have much more if anyone is interested.

Then theres role women play in porn. Sex is usually not seen as the act of pleasuring the two people involved in porn. No, usually the women's body is exposed and yes exploited, while the male's body is completely disregarded. The males usually have their "needs" met, while the women get no foreplay and act as submissive sex toys for the males. Also many porn stars/ strippers invest in fake boobs after entering the industry to become sexier objects..they then set the stage along all the heartless adverisers in mainstream media of whats sexy. Males in turn learn what a sexy female body and female behavior is from this completely unrealistic SHOW. Female's sexuality is completely ignored and their bodies turned into sex fetishes.

Now some, actually many say that men are more visual then women... Biologically speaking then, if men were so good at picking out healthy, attractive women to mate with then why choose the ones that are as far from organic as possible to oggle over? Simple, many aspects of sexuality are learned..fetishes are learned. Binet, a very famous social psychiatrist/ researcher, demonstrated this by getting men aroused by the mere presence of a woman's boot. A boot!!! So while men are out there using the excuse that they are the more visual sex, you can throw that back at them. A few more arguments against men being so much more "visual" than women are: If mother nature intended for the healthiest, most attractive people to continue procreating so that fittest survive, then wouldn't women need to be equally as shallow?? After all the offspring's attractiveness is just as much do the father's health and appearance as it is the mothers... Also the visual aspect is apparent in both sexes, it is simply emphasized and exaggerated by our culture for men and completely de-emphasized for women. As a matter of fact everything to do with the female's sexuality is deemphasized by cultures all around this male dominated world. Ever see the Vagina Monologues?? I recommend it.
Also Naomi Wolf, a very accomplished feminist writer, describes in her book, "The Beauty Myth" how she discovered that a very unique tribe in Africa called the Wadobees ( I'm not sure about the spelling) is a reverse of our culture in that the males adorn themselves and compete with their beauty for female attention/ mates. In this society females do hold economic power.

I think too often people pin things on biology that are so obviously majorly influenced by culture!! Hello its not as if women aren't attracted to a good looking guy, we just don't have permission yet to completely parade their bodies around and measure their muscles and *&%$ sizes to determine if they are worth our sexual attention... and worst of all put them under magnifying glasses. Dr. Wolf, also interviewed Playboy for her book and asked them why they never refer to a male's *&^$ size, they responded..." Because then they would walk around with measuring sticks"!!! She was saying that in Britian when a magazine was put on a stand with a man almost fully exposed, it was taken off that very same day and deemed obsene by the male authorities. When it comes to women's bodies, nothing is "obsene" anymore...and nothing is obsene about our bodies..we can only be beautiful.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not against the visual aspect of sexuality.. No I'd say I'm in between on this, I'm against it when we see only ONE representation of sexy in all the media we survey 24 hours a day. When I see one sex overly exploited and the other as given permission to judge the exploited ones, while their confidence stands fully intact.. When women news casters are fired when they get too old, and "show" their age or get to fat, while ..well you've seen male newscasters. When this enormously fat and rather unattractive guy I meet at a club has 3 girl's naked and very in shape ***** displayed on his phone, like they are symbols of his manliness. I think men who really love women don't enjoy exploiting women this way and treat their bodies with more respect. There's reverence and then there's objectifying. This society does not in anyway pay reverence to women's sexuality or our real beauty... Go Dove!!


I am really sorry about this being so long, but I have so much to say about it, its hard to stop. I just want to share all of this with anyone who is interested as I can tell many more people are opening their minds to this new perspective and if I show a few more then it was worth it. Just ignore this is you disagree, thats what I do when I hear the views I disagree with..I just don't want to be attacked here. This is for whoever's interested and thats it. I won't post anymore except privately if anyone is interested in talking. I just get passionate sometimes...I'm a Leo with a Taurus moon, passion runs through my veins so you can't blame me, right? okay..deep breath now....pheeew.

Monica

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JustAmanda
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posted May 17, 2005 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JustAmanda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My husband is addicted to porn, has been for years. It escalated about 3 years ago into much worse when he began using a webcam etc...our marriage has fallen apart MANY times because I cannot get those images out of my mind, and think about him looking at other women like that via webcams etc. Yet I stay married to him for many reasons, but I long for the way we were before I knew any of these things...

His addiction has led us to sleep in different rooms, and so far this year, we've only had sex once. Yes, that was February 26th--and last year, we had sex 3 times. I'm 34 and he's 35 if anyone is wondering.

And I've all but given up on ever having sex again...which hurls me into deep states of depression because I felt that he was my soul mate when we first met and married...I no longer feel that way...matter of fact, I don't have much feeling on anything anymore.

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future_uncertain
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posted May 17, 2005 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now I can't get "The Internet is for Porn" from Avenue Q out of my head!

Just grab your d*ck and double click for porn, porn, porn!

Okay... I'm on both sides of the issue. I guess it all depends on the circumstances. I realize that (generally speaking) guys are more visually stimulated than females and are better able to separate sex from emotion. If I caught my guy having a "menage a moi" I wouldn't care a bit... heck-- I might even give him a hand! BUT! When guys transpose their pornographic views of women onto real women... that's a problem. I don't care if a guy checks out porn (ok, I might feel a twinge...) but if he's able to relate to me and have a healthy emotional/sexual relationship with me, then no harm done.

I do think that some guys use it as a means of distancing themselves, in whatever small private way, from their real-life girls. That's crappy and immature, and guys who indulge in pornography just to feel like more of a "man" in the "hey, no woman is ever going to tie me down" kind of way are just sad. You're better off without this type.

I think it would be equally sad to be with a guy who felt that pornography was a safety net that kept him from cheating on me. What????!!! I would consider that to be misuse of porn. That's almost cheating! If hot chicks who he will never see in real life are the only thing keeping us together, then we've got bigger issues at hand...

I think it really depends on the relationship. With some guys it hasn't been an issue, and with some it has been such a big issue that I saw no reason to continue the relationship. It all depends on the role porn plays for him.

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zoso
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posted May 17, 2005 11:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zoso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think porn is so silly. Most porn, that is. I just laugh; I have no problem with porn in general. What I really like is erotica. Pictures are pretty and movies are cheesy, but erotica gets in your head.

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LeoSweetHeart
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posted May 18, 2005 12:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By the way, I know that we all are coming from different perspectives, and through my tinted glasses, I can still see other's povs.

Just Amanda, That makes me so sad to hear what your going through. The same thing happened to me with my boyfriend (was my fiance), but to a much lesser degree. He never overtly looked at porn, but he stared obsessively at almost every single girl that was ever in our presence both in real life and magazines, posters and movies. He was conditioned in Bolivia to women as like these walking sex machines. To see him stare that way made me so sick and depressed. It took a little while for me to get completely numb to him because we also started off believing we were meant to be...or he believed as much as a Virgo can. Having that picture destroyed was so painful...I know how you feel, I really do. I'm sure since its been so long, you have numbed yourself and lost your faith in fairy tales. If anything thats what porn can do..destroy the fairy tale. Before I met my boyfriend I believed with all my heart in storybook love and lasting marriage..now I feel that marriage is just a piece of paper and that divorce is so prevalent that there's almost no point in putting so much pressure on making a relationship with one person work. I'm not saying that this isn't a wiser point of view, its just different than the one I had. I second what you said, I don't know what I feel anymore. Do you plan on seperately from your husband? Do you still have hope of finding someone your really in love with, or have you given up?

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