posted June 17, 2005 08:34 AM         

I'm a Libran (4 Oct 1973 Cancer rising,) and my partner is an Aquarian (22 Jan 1966 Pisces rising) which on the surface sounds great right? And it was for so long until recently, he started to behave extremely distantly toward me and seems to be having an intensely Aquarian time of it, being interested in everyone else apart from me and the relationship! His demonstration of affection also seems to have waned, and I know we've both been tired and stressed due to work but I still make an effort. He’s talked about marriage to me as recently as a couple of months ago, and dropped big hints saying that he wants to save up to buy me a decent ring (bless him – it’s him I want not jewellery!) He’s been engaged before (both times he broke it off) and says that this is the only time he’s ever really considered actually marrying someone.

I became more and more suspicious and uneasy that something was going on behind my back (don't know why really, just a feeling) and I did a terrible thing - I looked through his emails on his computer one day. I found that he doesn't clean out his in box/sent items at all and there were some emails in there between him and his ex girlfriend (Capricorn Jan 19th 1979 - don't know her rising sign) the last one dated 12th April this year which was a few weeks after I'd moved in. All of them were very caring and friendly but some of which were slightly flirty. Now he is a flirty person by nature (we used to flirt on a forum we both belonged to which is partly how we met) so that's understandable until you realise that this is an ex girlfriend he was madly in love with by all accounts and one who, even though she finished with him in a dramatic flourish, won't ever seem to stop trying to win him back.

She had a very bad reaction to hearing he was with me, and has been darting between trying to get him back and then apologising for her behaviour ever since. She takes every opportunity she can to remind him of something that happened while they were together and to try and drag his mind back to be on her. I know it's up to him at the end of the day and he's told me he doesn't want her back at all and that I've got nothing to worry about but he never seems to say 'no' loud enough for her to hear. She suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder apparently and only contacts him (he says) when she's having a bad time. He says he’s not contacted her since the last email he got on the 12th April but I find myself wondering if he’s lying to protect my feelings again or if it’s true. I know he still cares about her, and I'd think he was mean if he didn't I suppose, but does he have to be so careful with her that he can't say, "Stop trying to get me back; I don't want you I want Sarah, I'm in love with her now."

On telling him I felt that he obviously still had feelings for her, he was wonderfully reassuring and held me tight saying I'm the only one he wants/is in love with and that I mean everything to him. He told me that any feelings he had for her, I'd stolen and that he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. All lovely stuff eh, so why can't I shake off the doubt?

He told me that the only reason he'd not mentioned the emails was that once when she sent a text message to his mobile phone I reacted rather badly (true as I hadn't realised she had his new number) and so he decided it was best not to upset me.

If you lexigram DOUBTING you get NO GOD IN IT. Absolutely right. However despite being told all these wonderful things, and despite his warning to me that I should be careful what I concentrate on or I may ordain it by thinking it (v.wise Aquarian!) I still can't seem to stop being consumed by a panic that he loves her more than me.

The other reason I feel insecure is that there were also emails from him to his friend at about the time they split up where he was saying how much he loved her and how upset he was etc. I don't think he tells anyone how he feels about me - what conclusion do I draw from that?

In our chart we have a Venus sextile Pluto and they have a Venus Sqaure Pluto. I know astrology isn't the be all and end all of a relationship but it never seems to lie. I just feel that whatever he had with her somehow meant more to him than what we have/had. I need to move beyond this hurt/fear/suspicion I know but I keep going round and round in circles. If I could see him demonstrating affection and all these loving feelings he says he has for me, then I could start to feel more positive and look forward not back. Just feel lost in a sea of choking doubt and mourning the relationship as it was up until about 2 months ago.

I'd be so grateful for anyone's advice/take on the situation. Huge apologies for such a long rant but I’m in hell with this and don’t know what else to do! Thank you x

OUR CHART

HIM ME
Sun: Aquarius Sun: Libra
Rising: Pisces Rising: Cancer
Moon: Aquarius Moon: Capricorn
Venus: Pisces Venus: Scorpio
Mercury: Capricorn Mercury: Scorpio
Mars: Aquarius Mars: Taurus
Jupiter: Gemini Jupiter: Aquarius
Saturn: Pisces Saturn: Cancer
Uranus: Virgo Uranus: Libra
Neptune: Scorpio Neptune: Sagittarius
Pluto: Virgo Pluto: Libra

posted June 17, 2005 10:15 AM         

.. to look at the situation properly .. an astrologer would check all 3 charts ..
that's a fair bit of work/time ... and here is a UK link .. where u can ask for
a list of their graduates .. and potentialy find a qualified individual ..
.. it be an astrology faculty .. since1948 i beleive
http://www.astrology.org.uk

.. am pretty sure a few knowflakes will read your post and offer
emmotional support/advice .. i can only offer a 'transit time'
evaluation so to speak .. explanations would need a bit of research
( get your mind off it .. )
.. i went thru a mind bending romantic triangle once ( .. became more
than a triangle .. think it evolved into a square ;-)) .. lasted about
18 month (way before i knew about astrology ) .. drove me so crazy ..
i got in my car and drove 1500 miles in the other direction and never
looked back ..

.. youv'e probably done yourself some good by simply writing about it ..
btw: zog be in yorkshire

posted June 17, 2005 11:29 AM         

Just feels so strange to be talking about us like this, as only a couple of months ago, we were fine and so very much in love with each other! Feels like all that's been knocked sideways somehow.

posted June 17, 2005 02:09 PM         

Following are some observations from what you wrote, and my reading between the lines of what you wrote. The last thing I’m trying to do is hurt your feelings – just want to give you some things to think about.

So you “know I should be the supplier of my own reassurance” – strictly speaking I guess that’s true, but why should you not seek out the wisdom, sympathy and solace of others? It almost seems like you’re beating yourself up about asking for help! Did you grow up in an environment where you were expected to be strong at all times and never have a moment’s weakness or uncertainty?

You write that your Aqua “started to behave extremely distantly toward me and seems to be having an intensely Aquarian time of it, being interested in everyone else apart from me and the relationship!” Possibly he’s feeling your vibes and it makes him uncomfortable. Perhaps this is only your perception because of your heightened suspicions.

Are you officially engaged? If you are, then I wouldn’t deem it unreasonable to ask him if he would consider blocking her emails and ignoring her text messages. What could they possibly have to say to each other now?

“I know he still cares about her (Why? Didn’t she dump him?), and I'd think he was mean if he didn't I suppose”. I wouldn’t. Why is it mean to move on from a burned bridge?

“On telling him I felt that he obviously still had feelings for her, he was wonderfully reassuring and held me tight saying I'm the only one he wants/is in love with.” Here is the Life Preserver to hang onto! Repeat it to yourself as many times an hour as necessary!

“I still can't seem to stop being consumed by a panic that he loves her more than me.” I don’t see ANY evidence of this from what you’ve written. Sounds like the only reason he’s speaking to her at all is just because he’s a nice guy and many Aquas will avoid confrontations and try to be friendly if at all possible, just as we Librans do.

“I don't think he tells anyone how he feels about me - what conclusion do I draw from that?” How can you know this (ie what he tells other people about you)? Besides, it’s more important what he tells YOU about how he feels than what he says to his buddies, isn’t it?

“In our chart we have a Venus sextile Pluto and they have a Venus Sqaure Pluto.” Venus conjunct, sextile or trine Pluto is an excellent vibration for a love relationship, I will check on the orb when I run your charts tonite…...do you have birth-times for both of you? If you feel uncomfortable posting them, my email address is at my Profile here.

“If I could see him demonstrating affection and all these loving feelings he says he has for me” – but it sounds like he is? The traditional Aqua is not as demonstrative as your fella…….” then I could start to feel more positive and look forward not back. Just feel lost in a sea of choking doubt and mourning the relationship as it was up until about 2 months ago.”

My heart goes out to you Sarah, this is a difficult time period. And you’ve only been living together for a few months, you are still adapting to sharing your lives and space. But I have a feeling your relationship will survive this dip in the road. Dragon-Man has given you an excellent suggestion: throw yourself into learning the astrology of your relationship, it will give you lots to think about in a positive way, rather than dwelling on the doubts you have.

posted June 17, 2005 08:06 PM         

Why thank you Deputy #11, what a kind compliment, now I'm blushing. I think you're pretty nifty too, especially that balanced Libra Moon ("Why don't you take my Jupiter and shove it up some other planet!").

But really, thanks. I've been following your "Inability to Accept Love" thread with sympathy, wish I had something to offer in support, but you got a lot of good stuff from other warm hearts. I'm going to be posting some chapters from Liz Greene (Neptune and Saturn) and Steven Forrest (Pluto) and John Townley (Uranus) soon since I got some text-recognition software (no more typing from astro books into teeny LL boxes!) so I'll put your stats up there with Pixie's and DayDreamer's.....

posted June 18, 2005 06:40 AM         

Zala - It's so nice to have someone who's singing from much the same hymn sheet astrologically as myself! Bless you for all your kind and intuitive reasoning which makes perfect sense! I come from a very supportive background (Cancerian mother and Aries father, now in spirit bless him ) where I was always encouraged and had their affection demonstrated to me. I think that's sometimes partly my problem in a funny way, as I was treated to such displays of affection from them that I automatically look for that from other people and if they can't deliver in the same way I assume they don't love me. How selfish and unfair is that! I am learning to see that he's doing his absolute best to show me in the only ways he knows how, and his Mercury in Capricorn can often take the edge off his beautiful Pisces Venus, making him appear blunt, formal and disinterested. Couple that with his Sun, Moon and Mars in Aqua and you have someone who is very airy and guarded about showing emotion! So I suppose I'm extremely lucky to have had the protestations I have had from him

Anyway, thank you so much and I'd be fascinated to hear anything you have to say on our charts. My birth time is 11.45pm Greenwich Mean Time and birthplace is Ashford, Kent UK. His is 10.45am and place was Lincoln UK.

posted June 18, 2005 11:48 AM         

Your mood sounds so much more upbeat today, I think the healing process has started!
I can see that you have already realized yourself that our feelings result from what we PERCEIVE is happening in our lives, NOT what is actually happening. And to make that lovely Libran leap of understanding that people demonstrate affection differently "I was always encouraged and had their affection demonstrated to me. I think that's sometimes partly my problem in a funny way, as I was treated to such displays of affection from them that I automatically look for that from other people and if they can't deliver in the same way I assume they don't love me. How selfish and unfair is that!" I laughed out loud when I read the word "unfair"!!! If I didn't already know you were a Libra, there's the clincher!
As for charts, I used 11:00 for you and 10:00 for him, so got pretty close, but thanks for supplying the correct time. If you don't already have it, pick up a copy of Linda Goodman's "Relationship Signs" -- she's got Ascendant Tables in that book and I just picked the times I used from those tables -- you can get pretty close.....
Have some errands to do today, hope to be back later. Keep us posted on how things are progressing, OK?
I'll leave you with a quote from Linda's book above:
"Venus Conjunct, Sextile or Trine Pluto (his Venus 8 Aqua, yours at 4 Libra)
There's an indisputable karmic tie between you, and it's a powerful one, to be sure. Perhaps you don't "believe in" reincarnation, the cause of such things as karmic ties. It doesn't matter. Not believing in it doesn't cancel its reality or keep it from working. Even when occasional disagreements occur between you, whether initiated by yourself or by outsiders, it's next to impossible to separate the two of you permanently."
This is the beginning of the relationships paragraph in the book. If you look at the same aspect in the 'Love Aspects' section, I guarantee your heartbeat will speed up (that is if it doesn't stop completely!).....
Another quote from Linda:
Linda Goodman Relationship Signs page 196
"If only Earthlings would realize the power of love to conquer any kind of misery or unhappiness like a mighty magic wand, it wouldn’t matter whether two people’s birth charts were full of positive or so-called negative aspects because love can conquer the influences of the planets. It can even eliminate karma. Yes, if only humans truly understood this. Well, it’s the Aquarian age of serendipity, so maybe someday soon."

posted June 18, 2005 08:03 PM         

mainly Chiron be about wounding .. feeling wounded .. but it be a bit
more complex .. i've not looked at a possible chart for your guy (yet)
.. birth times would help ...

Chiron and a few others (Uranus/Neptune/Pluto) are doing a bit of a
zodiacal dance .. as in they are going retrograde and then will be going direct
again this year .. so unfortunately for some here at LL are having to deal
with 3 transit 'peaks' .. instead of just one ...
so it is with transiting Chiron .. it's a bit of a 'protracted' transit ......

a few links about Chiron
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_chiron_e.htm
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm
http://martinlass.com/healhand.htm
http://www.martinlass.com/chiron.htm

and btw: seems in your chart u have a T square involving
Saturn opposite Lillith and square to Pluto ....
Pluto being at the top of the 'T' ....
maybe investigate that .. looks to be a big challenge
in your chart .....
depends much on time .. but your natal moon just
might be conjunct Lillith .. but that is a big maybe
without birth time ....
also without birthtime .. ignore grid transits to your moon ..
and .. i haven't noticed any upcoming difficult transits ..

enjoy the hot weather ..

posted June 18, 2005 09:04 PM         

Help! There are two "Ashford, UK" at www.astro.com.
Since I can't choose "Kent" I have to choose lat/long -- is it
51N26 0W27, or
51N08 0E53
One is apparently east of Greenwich and one is west.....

Thx,
'Zala

posted June 19, 2005 06:27 AM         

Hi Zala - I think it must be the one that's east of Greenwich as Kent's to the east of London. Hope that helps and thank you so much once again!

Things are a little better - we had a lovely day out yesterday and got closer as the day wore on. It's early days and I think if we've got any chance of moving beyond this we've both just got to take it slowly and be patient with each other.

posted June 19, 2005 06:28 AM         

Hi Zala - I think it must be the one that's east of Greenwich as Kent's to the east of London. Hope that helps and thank you so much once again!

Things are a little better - we had a lovely day out yesterday and got closer as the day wore on. It's early days and I think if we've got any chance of moving beyond this we've both just got to take it slowly and be patient with each other.

posted June 19, 2005 11:04 AM         

Good morning! Glad you had a good day yesterday, an old 12-step phrase comes to mind,"One Day At A Time", in rebuilding/reaffirming after your period of doubt and panic.....

Re-ran both your natals, and I don't come up with the same stats you put in your first post for him?

The following is what I got at astro.com. I note in particular the 29 Aries Rising since I have an anaretic Rising Sign/Descendent also.....

AstroText Portrait - Short Edition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for Sarahs Aqua Cardinalgal (male)
born on 22 Jan 1966 local time 10:45 am
in Lincoln, ENG (UK) U.T. 10:45
0w33, 53n14 sid. time 18:48:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Aquarius 01°58'08 11 direct
Moon Aquarius 10°35'43 11 direct
Mercury Capricorn 22°22'16 10 direct
Venus Aquarius 08°19'25 11 retrograde
Mars Aquarius 23°48'07 11 direct
Jupiter Gemini 22°11'31 02 retrograde
Saturn Pisces 14°21'48 12 direct
Uranus Virgo 19°16'21 06 retrograde
Neptune Scorpio 21°54'30 07 direct
Pluto Virgo 18°11'49 06 retrograde
True Node Gemini 02°54'58 01/2 retrograde
True Node is technically near the end of house 1 and is interpreted in house 2.

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Aries 29°45'09
2nd House Gemini 04°42'07
3rd House Gemini 24°17'30
Imum Coeli Cancer 11°04'03
5th House Leo 00°03'01
6th House Leo 29°05'11
Descendant Libra 29°45'09
8th House Sagittarius 04°42'07
9th House Sagittarius 24°17'30
Medium Coeli Capricorn 11°04'03
11th House Aquarius 00°03'01
12th House Aquarius 29°05'11

What do you think? Please check what I input in case dates/hours are incorrect. Daylight Savings Time is not generally in effect in January.....

posted June 19, 2005 02:51 PM         

Well I confess I'm puzzled! I took his rising sign stats from Relationship signs itself which has Pisces for that time, date, year etc, and to be honest I can't recognise him as an Aries ascendant at all!! He's Pisces rising to a tee!

Also, Venus in Aqua eh? It could be right but again, he's a great deal more tender (when he actually let's his guard down! ) and it just seems that Pisces seems to be more fitting to the way he gives love/affection. Very dreamy, deep quality about him in those rare moments when his Aquarian tendancies are overtaken.

If it is Aquarius, then that gives us a Venus Trine Pluto one way and a Venus Sextile Pluto the other! Only slight niggle is that it gives him a Venus Trine Pluto with his ex aswell - which may well explain the whole thing if that's why she keeps coming back for more? Dunno though, he just seems far more Pisces is the way he loves/receives love.

Thank you so much for doing all that though!! You're a star and I really appreciate it. I will have another read of Relationship signs and read Aries rising to make sure, but I still think he's a Pisces rising.

posted June 19, 2005 04:39 PM         

I got Aries Rising at another website too....

This picture may expire soon, so here's the url to run it at: http://www.janspiller.com/personalcharts.php
You know, if he has Aries Rising, that means he has Libra on the cusp of his 7th house of Partnership.....(!!!)

Glad you picked up "Relationship Signs" to study -- but please note the caveat in the Ascendent Tables -- Linda writes that they are generally accurate for North America.....I use them to get "close" when only given an Asc sign and no birthtime, but the computer programs at astro.com and the other websites are going to be the accurate ones.....

posted June 20, 2005 11:36 PM         

he sounds like a pisces rising to a tee
very romantic, and ex's stick like glue! no hope of that every ending as he is too nice to be cruel.
If you are there for him, and let him know it then that will be enough. pisces rising is very simple that way and not very independent, but afraid of being left alone.

I was a bit weird about my ex, defending the earth women, but pisces risings can be confusing and magical and earth people are naturally drawn to that glamour. Since pisces tends to confuse and dazzle, earth women want to clear up the mystery and defend and protect what they care about. If he puts out signals of being unhappy the earth woman will rush in and try to help.

It takes a long time to understand the signals and let go, though when an earth woman lets go it's forever, she never goes back unless pursued. He's probably not pursuing her so don't worry.

Imagine my ex b/f is probably wondering why I don't call him for his birthday right? But he'd never let me know it, just expects the attention. Even though he's with someone else, he likes the attention and I can feel it somehow because he's predictable that way. however I have let go and when I do that, I am more practical.

We all like different cakes for our birthday but we settle and are grateful for what comes to our front door, not the back. (if we are unassertive)

posted June 21, 2005 12:32 PM         

Part one:
Wow! Thank you everyone for all your help and insight into the situation. It's really helped me to see things from a different perspective and to understand motives/behaviour even more.

Elemiah - I can totally understand that you could still be attracted to your ex whilst loving your present partner as it's happened to me before. I had no desire to be back with them but I still cared and loved them on a different level. I wish you and your partner all the luck, happiness and love in the world!

posted June 21, 2005 12:33 PM         

If he does have Venus in Aqua it means that he has a Venus Trine his exes Pluto and the other way they have a Venus Square Pluto. That could explain the whole not being able to break the silvery chord thing of them staying in contact and her reluctance to let him go. He and I would then have a Venus Trine Pluto and Venus Sextile Pluto so the poor thing is being tugged both ways between his ex and me! I spoke to a friend of his last week about this who told me that my partner was thoroughly miserable throughout the whole relationship with his ex and every time he was starting to get over it, she'd come back and stamp all over his heart again. He told me that she would always try and make situations revolve around her especially if they'd not been in contact for a while, and she needs everyone's attention. Explains a lot about his reticence to tell me how he feels very often and why he takes a while to trust. I really hope he's over that now and that if she must contact him again, she won't try and upset things just to make herself feel better.

I have a question for you though... "You know, if he has Aries Rising, that means he has Libra on the cusp of his 7th house of Partnership.....(!!!)" Does this mean that he is comfortable with partnership, Libra being the sign of seeking harmony particularly in relationships???? Apologies for my ignorance only I'm new to working out the different houses etc

We had a lovely weekend just driving around and visiting old places that we're interested in, and he asked me on Sunday night if I'd enjoyed it. I told him I'd had a wonderful time and he said he was really pleased so he'd obviously been making an effort to give me a lovely time bless him. I had a bit of an epiphany on Sunday which has really helped me to put things in perspective. I was sitting alone on a bench in a beautiful churchyard whilst he was looking around and I suddenly thought, "I could do this alone too." What I meant was that I suddenly realised that I could have lovely moments like that without him in my life so if it all finished tomorrow, I'd be fine. I've come through a lot of things in my life and just needed to remind myself of that I think. It doesn't mean I love him any less, on the contrary, I love him more than anything, but I've realised he enhances my life but isn't the reason for my existence. Hope that makes sense?? I've resolved to trust the only thing that's constant - love. After all, it seems to keep finding me and presenting itself in my life so why not trust it will do the same now?

posted June 22, 2005 10:30 AM         

You sound so much happier today than last week, I'm glad!

What I meant about your Aqua having Libra on his Descendent is that in the tradtional interps the 7th house is the sign of the marriage partner, or "what we look for in a partner that we think will complete us". Making the generalization that he has Libra on the 7th so he'll be happy with a Libra is painting with too broad a brush, yet it is a positive part of your synastry. Please go over to the Astrology forum and take a look at something I posted for WaterNymph on Pluto in the 7th. The topic is about Pluto but it has some excellent general information about the 7th house also. Pick up any book that you can by Steven Forrest, as you will see he's an incredible writer.

A word of caution: "Relationship Signs" is a wonderful tool, but it's only a very beginning step in the synthesis of two people's charts. All the Person A/Person B writeups do not take into account what sign those planets are in, for instance, and that is crucial to the synastry interp. And also what OTHER planets may be modifying the 2-planet comparisons. So, please take a look at other resources. Looking at his chart right now, I note that he is very late Aries rising 29Aries45, almost Taurus. He also has Pluto in the 6th house, and there is a good thread topic over at the Astro forum about that too, probably back a couple pages. I'm just a beginner in interpreting transits, so I will leave that to Professor Happy Dragon, but I note that Chiron is just past conjunction with your Aqua's Sun, so that's why HD probably put up those Chiron links.....

Have a wonderful summer!
'Zala

posted June 23, 2005 11:26 AM         

That's so interesting about the whole 7th house subject! I suppose I do look for stability and dependability (working on the assumption that it's opposite your ascendant and therefore mine is Capricorn) and although his sun's not there, his Mercury is in Capricorn, and strangley enough I often feel better once I've talked to him Amazing how it works on so many intricate levels that you never knew existed!

I'm going to ask his mum exactly what time he was born (if she can remember that is as I'm sure she was too busy to look at the clock at the time!) but he says he was told it was not long before the pubs opened - that makes it anywhere between 10.30am to 11am. I've looked at the links you gave me and they all seem to be saying the same thing about Rising Aries and Venus in Aqua. A trine and a sextile Pluto it is then!

Anyway, thank you again for all your help and you have a beautiful summer too! I hope you have someone wonderful who appreciates your beauty, wisdom, grace and strength as you deserve to!

posted June 23, 2005 09:05 PM         

Thank you so much for the nice wish/compliment! I have great friends, but my intuition tells me that I am biding time now, that Special Someone wonderful 'who appreciates your beauty, wisdom, grace and strength as you deserve' is still down the road a bit. I had a bad experience in a relationship in the 90's and I haven't had any but very superficial contact with men since (in a romantic way). I spent a long time licking my wounds and coming to terms with what happened, and it's only been a year or so since I threw open the Door of Possibility and walked outside with my face and arms upturned towards the Sun again.....I really like your quote: "I've resolved to trust the only thing that's constant - love. After all, it seems to keep finding me and presenting itself in my life so why not trust it will do the same now?" Yes! That's what I mean about biding my time.....

Anyway, please let us know what's happening with you and Mr Aqua, even if it's only to write and say "we're deliriously happy!" If I can help in any of your astro studies, please message me at the forum or email me.