posted September 04, 2005 08:37 PM         

The lesson to me I suppose is to remember if I touch it I buy it, that is if a man is getting to know me, and like me, deep down he is seriously considering his options because he wants to live with someone eventually.

That has made me put the breaks on anything besides a light peck on the cheek, no hugging!

As I get older it's the man who wants the commitment more and more, and women around me seem to just want to have fun. I compensate by taking other women out for fun, drinks, movies, and spending time with men talking/walking. The exceptions are Virgo and Cancer men, both can get me to commit to deeper friendship.

posted September 05, 2005 12:04 AM         

love me or leave me, warts and all, and I'll do the same for you......

posted September 06, 2005 04:07 AM         

I tried to report witout bias.
Because I was a "victim". Supporting a son (willingly I add) for 10 years, who I could not live with after my wife simply decided to leave and take him with her.

I agree with all your comments about the welfare system. It is misused and abused by too many people with private and selfish agendas.

However is it not better if it permits only one genuine person in need, to live in dignity ? Instead of denying aid to all.

posted September 06, 2005 06:44 AM         

I used to think it was not my business but I believe the system can only change with people who are compassionate. I got a business loan at one point to hire women with no work, and I couldn't find any women who wanted to work. They complained the work (sewing and painting) was too hard, they preferred the subsidies. That left me with a different view, wich is that there is no dignity in work anymore in the U.S.

But simply because that's the current view does mean psychologically it is correct, down the road these women's children and families have more problems, and they are less likely to care about schooling or owning homes because life is in limbo, that is what I see.

Anyway, the government in the Northeast US is very much into pushing welfare and grants to everyone who will take them, to the point that manufacturing and business is almost dead, we are in a recession here for that reason and because of 9/11. NYC, and Boston and the surrounding areas have super high unemployment, and it's not getting better.

In Canada there is much welfare, but it's not as abused because frankly people do not appreciate it as much as they do work. The economy up there is booming, not decaying.

I appreciate your response, and your thread has made me think.

posted September 06, 2005 04:55 PM         

Live-ins, open marriages, etc..as long as each person within the arragement is happy, then no one else should have the right to pass judgement. Times have changed, lines are gray where they used to be black and white. To me that is a good thing. Some people may see right and wrong instead of the gray line, but that is where acceptance comes in. Accept that you have no force over what other's do and live your own life as best as you possibly can..accept change, accept fate, accept karma. Die happy, die with a clean conscience...die with love. To be loved, no matter if it is written on paper or not, is sacred. Don't challenge it or judge it, accept it.

posted September 07, 2005 01:01 AM         

Asian countries = society, conservative approch to sex ,culture,restrictions,

The decisions are not always made by an individual but somewhat influence by others it can be not only parents but your next door neighbor or your cousin whom you never met before.Ofcourse the society is changing but still there is a hidden fear.

Western countries = open to sex,independence,individuality,freedom

You take your decisions and you would avoid discussing it.MAYBE you would ask your parents or friends but final decision is still made by you.Nobody can force you.

What would you think about a person who had 1-2 live-in relationship and now you are seeing him ?

AC :
Response 1 : He had 1-2 live-in relationship so he must have slept with so many of them.What kind of charachter this person has ?

It goes on and on....

Response 2 : Things are changing. I don't want to get married I would rather have more live-in relationships with him/her.

Western C : It's kind of normal and you wouldn't get bother. You would be more worried whether you both are compaitable or not.

Asian Countries ---
Why they would prefer marriage on live- in relationship?

--Stability
--Social Pressure
--Obvious thing to do
--Don't want to waste time and effort

One of the biggest reasons why their would be people who wouldn't go for live-in relationship will be Sex.They still want their partners to be virgin and wouldn't be happy about his/her past.Government has very little to do in marriage here.Some don't even care when they get certificate that they are married.They are more keen to live togather.Normally we don't have welfare and such benefits from government.Some of the people have insurance but it's not a compulsion.

Maybe there is dictatorship but everybody knows who is the boss of the house.Most of the time it would be MAN as nobody would want henpecked husband.

The responsibilities are always shared appropriately by society, families or individuals before they get married.
There is clear line drawn by society on what the rights of man or woman would be in relationship to let the relationship run smoothly.Ofcourse there is lot of double standard or hypocrisy involved.They don't have fight on who is going to do the dishes today. Marriage at some time turns out to be compromise.

Maybe ownership issues well some loose some win. That's the time when the government comes or it is again settled by relatives or friends,etc.If they choose not to really go to court.I think well it's difficult to get divorce but maybe not that difficult as other countries so why marriage last?
It's easy to get divorce as far as legalities go but social pressure is way beyond more.

As for all your posts has really given clear picture why would you prefer
LIVE -IN Relationship over marriage ?

--To know a person better
--Avoid hassles of divorce and lengthy procedure.
--Marriage is just a paper and more of emotional connection.
--Avoid Disputes on Ownership, Property,etc.
--Personal Choice

No one can decide what is good or bad in this as long as they are happy and comfortable where they are.I agree no one should tell you what is right and wrong.Few things work for some but won't work for others.It really doesn't matter.Would it now ?

posted September 10, 2005 03:07 PM         

I grew up in an extremly conservative home, full of social rules and religous dogma. sigh. My parents have been married for 28 years, and during the early years it was a crappy union. My sisters and I often wished they had just seperated rather than grow up observing the constant bickering and emotional drama. A negative and controlling environment it was.

K, so at 17 I decide enough is enough. I ran away w my bf of 2 years one night--fed up with it all not because I loved him. To make a long stroy short, both sets of parents decided to marry us the decent thing to do they said. Of course, it didn't last too long. Four wasted years, and two loving kinders and I decided to break it off. The best decision I've ever made. I went enrolled in college, got my own place, and lived alone for some time. My ex went back to his country and remarried within months we have had no contact.

Fast forward to the present. I'm in a committed relationship and yes we do live together, been doing so for a year now. It was a hard call to make, I was so used to doing things in the old-fashioned way. He's the only person I've ever lived with, I used to look down on this kind of arrangement. I'm glad I gave this a try, because its paving the road for when we do get married (we are engaged). The reasons I didn't want to get married right away, are pratical ones. My first marriage and the complicated divorce left me wary. I wasn't about to jump back in too quickly and go through the same drama again. I wanted to make sure we knew each other's negative sides and annoying habits first. Sharing a home does that. My other reason is my two kinders. I didn't want to mary a charmer, and realize he isn't a good influence after the marriage. The two years we've been together, he's been great with them and they've grown to love each other. I'm glad I didn't rush into it too quickly, that last thing I'd want is to hurt the younglins. Finally, we're both completing our education and the marraige tax would just make it so much harder to afford. Our goal is to finish our degree programs and celebrate by getting married. Not for the security, because we love each other. Every day we go through the nitty gritty of daily living has us learning and understanding each other better. The marriage would be not for the legal status but the spiritual blessing of our union

My humble two cents

posted September 13, 2005 10:51 PM         

------------------
Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

"You must live in the infinite blackness that exists when I close my eyes. I see you when I fall asleep, I see you when I dream."

posted September 14, 2005 03:25 AM         

I asked one of my Gemini Friend and she said what she fear most is divorce.

I just wanted to clarify Asian Countries... what I meant was in British English : India and Pakistan Not China or South Korea.In
China divorce rate is very high.

One more thing to add in India they get engage first and then get married so in that time they decide few things.I just think everything should decide things before they
get married.

posted September 14, 2005 04:23 AM         

After we all manage to get that figured out, then we could decide whether that piece of paper would be to our legal advantage as far as the gov is concerned.....

but I'm all in favor of when you've been together long enough to declare your love in front of family and friends (keep the gov out of it if its not to your best advantage!)

posted September 14, 2005 08:50 PM         

In a nutshell, here's my situation:
I met a nice guy online on an dating website in June. We met in person in July. We had our 2nd date 2 weeks later and I became pregnant, the first time we had sex.

He's a Sag Sun/Aqua Moon/Cancer ASC/Scorpio VEnus and Libra Mars. Dec. 3, 1970 8PM, NYC.

I'm a Taurus Sun/Aqua Moon/Gemini ASC/Aires Venus and Taurus Mars. May 12, 1966 8AM, Los Angeles.

We're going to have our 4th face-to-face meeting this Friday to make a decision. I want to keep it, he says he'll support me whichever decision I make. But he's frustrated and scared. It would be his 2nd child. His other is 2 years old. His ex-wife and he are not on good terms.

He said if decide to have the child, he would want me to move to his city (about 2 hours away). He didn't say MOVE IN with him, but that's what I'm thinking and would prefer. He married his ex-wife due to the fact she got pregnant. They were living together but had broken up. She stopped taking the pill without telling him and got pregnant deliberately. They were married 8 months.

posted September 14, 2005 10:32 PM         

quote:

---

My hubby and I shacked up for 6 years before we got married. Our children were present at our ceremony.

---

Sometimes you make me just wanna lay a big wet kiss on ya!

I've had a few live-in relationships and I'm so glad they weren't marriages. Basically the live-in status was a result of necessity-- I couldn't afford to live on my own.

posted September 14, 2005 10:36 PM         

I didn't read this entire thread, so I missed your post. Sounds like a very fragile and uncertain situation.

Wow.

posted September 14, 2005 11:25 PM         

I want to keep it, he says he'll support me in whichever decision I make. I'm going to see him this Friday. It will only be our 4 time seeing and talking to each other in person. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to approach him and the structure and flow of the conversation? I told him I wanted to hear everything he has to say and go through all our options and what could possibly happen and what we could do.

I mean, or course I know I don't know him verywell, but I perceive him to be intelligent, caring, and we do genuinely like each other. And I guess with my Venus Airies, I decided he was "the one" on that 2nd date.

He said if I decide to keep it, he wants me to move to his city (2 hours away). I'm ready to move in with him, although he didn't say specifically move in with him, just move to his city. But he has expressed his frustration and is not exactly turning cartwheels.

Him:
Dec. 3, 1970
8PM
New York City
Sun Sag
Moon Aqua
ASC Cancer
Venus Scorpio
Mars Libra
Jupiter Scorpio
Saturn Taurus

Me
May 12, 1966
8AM
Los Angeles
Sun Taurus
Moon Aqua
ASC Gemini
Venus Aires
Mars Taurus
Jupiter Cancer
Saturn Pisces

posted September 15, 2005 11:52 PM         

1st question.. are you ready to be a mother?dont count on him to always be there for you, you don't know him that well. so ultimately, the responsibility could be totally up to you (sorry if I sound a little jaded, waited till I was married at 30 to have my 1st and only child) and after a few years it fell apart horribly. leaving me a single mother....

posted September 17, 2005 06:14 AM         

quote:

---

Why this route? Because I wouldn't buy a car without a test-drive.

---

posted September 17, 2005 01:54 PM         

so , actually i am open to both .
its not that i am running from the marriage responsibilities , i believe i am not the sort of person to runaway from responsbilities but its just that live- in gives u a chance to undestand your partner prehand.

will write more , ithink , haven't read the whole posts .

posted September 17, 2005 02:45 PM         

Sue... I like your idea. Knackered but happy sounds great. (I have no idea what knackered means, but I'm assuming it's good!)

I do prefer a live in relationship before embarking on the real deal, but I don't think I would want to live forever like that. To me there's a difference, but I think that discrepancy varies from person to person. If the live-in situation is good, then I would definitely want to get married.